Get Your Ears Ready to Hear Me Complain
Oh, sorry.
You can go back to listening to the Dave Matthews that you were listening to that was so amazing, right?
Exactly.
Okay, so before you and I start a fistfight verbally... About jam bands and non-jam bands.
No, just jam bands.
Okay, so we... Jesus.
I tried so hard not to let myself fall into that trap and I couldn't help it.
Oh, that was great.
Okay, so we should start the show by mentioning some legal news.
And the interesting thing is, I'm not kidding.
So, Marco, would you like to tell us about the Electronic Frontier Foundation?
There was this podcast patent that everyone was talking about in the last couple of years.
Adam Carolla raised a bunch of money and actually challenged it because he was hit by a patent troll.
So the patent in question was from a company called Personal Audio.
They were patent trolling the podcast world for quite some time, going after most of the really big guys.
The EFF raised a bunch of money and stepped in and filed an official challenge to it and cited real prior art and actually got the patent invalidated.
So this decision came through about a week ago, a couple days, something like that.
And yeah, the EFF has succeeded in invalidating this patent that was really threatening all podcasts and podcasters and podcast apps and everything that deals with podcasts.
So I wanted to at least, and I think we as a whole, I think it could speak for all of us to just thank the EFF for doing this.
And I would highly suggest to our listeners, the EFF does a lot of great... This is the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the EFF.
They do a lot of really great stuff for technology.
They're a nonprofit, right?
I believe that's right.
And they really fight the good fight on so many issues for tech.
So I fully support the EFF, and I urge you to by going there and making a donation right now.
So pause us, go make a donation to EFF.
We will put the link in the show notes right at the top so you can see it, and they're really great.
Can I be the downer and say that the idea that the entire patent has been invalidated is almost...
certainly uh not entirely true like it's probably like well the major claims involved in the patent have been but then they can appeal and blah blah blah blah legally so on and so forth so like the fight continues and this is but one one aspect of you know
There are a million.
There are a million stupid patents.
I believe the fund that the EFF uses to fight these is like Mark Cuban's battle against stupid patents fund or something.
It actually has the word stupid in it.
So they are fighting the good fight.
And this is not the end of the fight, not even the end of the fight related to dumb podcasting patents, because I'm sure there's a treasure trove of.
equally stupid patents or even this one may come back to life like a zombie so yeah but this was a big one and this was one that was being actively sued with and so this is pretty big news and they did they not only filed to get key claims invalidated they succeeded in getting key claims invalidated so that's that is that is pretty big news
Yep, this is excellent.
So thanks to the EFF.
And like Marco said, please donate.
Now, with that taken care of, let's talk some follow up.
So, John, do you want to tell us about the gap that may or may not exist on the Apple Watch?
This was a topic on last week's show talking about the watch.
And I think it was Marco.
Yeah.
heard from somebody that had seen a watch and you could see the gap and he saw it in some of the videos and we discussed it as like a possible thing that they could improve on the future watches to possibly make it thinner and make it look more like it does in the carefully controlled beauty shots on Apple's websites where it just looks like a black smooth surface that has the lights on it and you don't see where the actual panel is inside there and a lot of people wrote in to tell us that there is no air gap in there because if you watch Johnny I video he says that the screen is laminated to the crystal this was
jeremy herberlin herberline who sent this to us via twitter and a couple other people said that if you watch the video he says some models or something have the screen laminated and i think who is this marco in the note saying that uh maybe the air gap is only visible on the sport and maybe it's laminated on the edition and on the uh the watch version of it
Yeah, because the claim is that most watch models have a display that is laminated directly to the sapphire crystal.
So that leaves room for the Sport not to have it.
And also because the Sport doesn't have sapphire, I think that's probably pretty clear.
And it could also be that the Sport is still laminated, just not to sapphire.
But that's an awfully twisted sentence for Johnny Ive to have said unnecessarily.
You know, like I'm guessing that there actually is some kind of small gap or some kind of different process for making the screen with the ion X glass for the sport versus making the laminated sapphire one.
And and I tried I went to the Apple store a couple of times since the since the watch became visible there.
And I tried seeing any difference between the two, and I couldn't get a long enough look at them to really say for sure, but you are able to see at certain angles the outline, the rectangle of what the screen is versus what the whole front face is.
And it does kind of ruin the illusion because the entire UI is designed for everything to go edge to edge, to not have any margin.
Like if you look at the iPhone UI, there's always some margin around the edges inside the screen area.
The watch, everything's designed with a black background and they even say like, go edge to edge, please go edge to edge with all your stuff.
because it's not a big enough screen that you can afford margin and the bezel around it or the bezel around it is is wide enough that that is that is like a good aesthetic margin but that illusion is a little bit weakened if you're able to see in real life like where the edges of the screen actually are inside that that bezel so it's it it is ideal if you can't see
yeah there's two issues here with the air gap is like maybe the image doesn't look like it's on the surface it looks like it's sunken down and then independent of the air gap regardless of whether it's laminated or not you have can i see the panel edges and the panel edges just i'm assuming have to do with differences in the reflectiveness of the material that the panel is made out of and the area that doesn't have a paddle underneath it so uh
Those are both things they can improve independently.
If every single screen is laminated, maybe they could, you know, depending on the thickness of the material, get more of getting the image to look like it's on the surface of the glass rather than deep down into the glass.
And then the outline, I'm not sure what they can do about that.
I guess get a panel that,
is darker when light shines on it or try to put some material behind all the glass so it looks the same so you can't see the edges but uh yeah the the aesthetics and you can look in all the pictures that apple takes they're going for the idea that this is just a magical curved black top thing and parts of it light up and you don't need to know where the edges are and you shouldn't know that for example the you know the eight
in the time is actually jammed up against the left edge of the screen and the top edge of the screen because you would never know that because where's the edge of the screen right and so that's that is a clever and economical use of screen real estate but you really don't want to see the fact that there are no margins because if you can see the lighter gray rectangle it makes that eight shoved up into the corner and not look so hot
Now, speaking of the watch, we should cover what we did or did not pre-order on Friday.
So let's start with you, Marco.
Did you wake up at three o'clock in the morning?
And if so, or I guess whether or not you did, did you order one or more watches?
I woke up at 2.58 in the morning, and I kept hitting refresh in the app, which really just means force quitting the app and relaunching it.
This is the Apple Store app on iOS, which is, in the last few launches, it has really been the way to do it.
Because whatever API the app is pulling for information seems to be much more reliable, or at least much simpler, than the Apple Web Store.
And so the app very rarely has any kind of reliability issues during these big floods of pre-orders, while the website regularly does.
And the app, you can use Touch ID to pay, which is awesome.
If you have Apple Pay set up, you can just pick what you want.
And you can even mark it as a favorite ahead of time.
You just open up the app, go to your favorites, hit the thing, hit Add to Cart, hit Checkout, and you just thumbprint, and it's done.
And it's the fastest pre-order process you can possibly have.
Uh, so I definitely recommend that approach for pre-ordering.
So anyway, I did that and I immediately, uh, the store didn't come up for me, uh, until about three Oh two, a couple minutes after three.
And, uh, and immediately as soon as I looked, the one I had picked out, which was the, uh, black leather loop 42 with the steel watch was already four to six weeks late.
I really wanted something to come immediately for development reasons.
I kind of have to.
So rather than get a second watch, which would be stupid, I elected to change my order to the only one of the steel ones that was still showing delivers April 24th to May, whatever, like the first delivery slot.
The only one that had the first delivery slot was the 42 Milanese loop.
So I went with that.
After trying them on in store later that day,
I changed my opinion slightly of some of these things.
Glad I didn't get the leather loop because I really don't like the leather loop.
I wrote a blog post about all this stuff.
In fact, both of us did, Casey.
So I won't go too far into it.
Suffice to say, the leather loop is not as soft or as comfortable or as convenient to use as I wanted.
Uh, so I went, I, I, I then ordered separately for quote May delivery, uh, the, the two bands that I was most impressed by, which were the link bracelet and the classic buckle.
And then I will keep one or both of those when they arrive.
We'll see.
So you ordered a link bracelet separately to the tune of like 500 bucks or whatever it was.
I did, yeah.
What I loved about the link bracelet that none of the other ones had, except for the modern buckle, is remember I was talking about what I really wanted most was quick release and quick attachment with the size being preset all the time.
Because I don't want to have to mess with the band and...
I found when I was trying on the Milanese loop in the store, I was constantly fiddling.
I would put it on and, oh, this is a little bit too loose, a little bit too tight.
I'd have to constantly be adjusting that band because I know myself, I know I'm picky and a little bit obsessive about things like that.
And so I know that not having it be exactly my correct setting every single time would drive me crazy.
Well, on that topic, we got some feedback about this.
I think it was email.
But my first question about all this is like, how often do you think you're taking this thing on and off?
I mean, maybe I guess like, yeah, they got to wash dishes.
You got to take it off, wash dishes, put it back on.
Is it like a speed contest?
Is it like you have to get it on and off within three seconds or something bad happens?
It's like you put it on in the morning, you take it off at night.
That's two times a day.
Not that you can have whatever criteria you want for your purchase, but that seems weird to me.
But the second thing is that a couple of listeners brought up is the exact sizing thing, your wrist changes size based on like...
how hot you are, how much humidity there is, how long the day has gone on, right?
And if you're that sensitive to a particular fit, you may have to end up adjusting it anyway.
And it's actually easier to readjust something like the Delaunay's loop as you bloat during the day, right?
Or go out into the cold or whatever than it would be to try to adjust the link bracelet, which is not like adjustable with bare hands.
uh so it depends on how sensitive you you are to the specific adjustments but i always say like the the plain old whatever it is the classic buckle that has like a bunch of holes yep you're gonna pick one hole that's gonna be the hole that you use and because there is no possibility of fine adjustments at least i think i would sort of mentally accept the fact that i won't be fine adjusting this i'm just gonna have to pick whichever hole works best and there's probably gonna be one that i'm gonna have to deal with both when it's cold and when it's hot and when you know
when my arms are puffy and when they're not and it's going to be well that's that's the hole the thing goes in i guess you do the same thing with a link bracelet of just like well this is the size i adjusted link bracelet too and i'm not readjusting it because it's a pain you need tiny screwdrivers or whatever the hell you need no it's buttons but yeah so so so to go back the person who challenged us was dr drang on twitter uh our friend dr drang uh and he he said why am i taking off a watch so much besides just once you know taking putting on the morning taking off at night
The answer to that is I don't know how often I'm putting this thing on and off.
Because I work at home and I'm helping out with our kid and everything, I am very often washing hands, washing things, getting wet, helping with the bath, all this stuff.
I'm constantly getting my hands wet and washing things.
And so I think there's a very good chance I'll be taking it off more than once a day.
But it's more that I haven't worn a watch since forever ago.
For 20 years, I haven't worn a watch.
So any annoyance of wearing a watch is going to be amplified in my mind because I'm not used to it.
So just the process of putting it on in the morning, taking it off at night and putting it in the charger...
All of those things are going to slightly annoy me for a while.
So my goal here was to maximize comfort and minimize annoyance.
So that's why my reservation with the link bracelet is that it is pretty heavy.
And at the very end of when I was trying it on, I did get a pinched arm hair.
And everybody says that always happens to them.
So...
My guess is the link bracelet's probably going to be back ordered and arrive later.
And my guess is that the classic buckle will arrive first and I will like it so much that I will probably just cancel the order for the link bracelet.
Yeah.
I mean, I've worn a watch most of my life and we probably covered this last episode, but suffice it to say I went a few years when I first got my iPhone where I stopped wearing it.
And then, I don't know, not long ago I started wearing a cheap watch again and
And the only time I take my watch off during the day is if it's bath time with Declan.
If I'm washing dishes, it stays on.
If I'm washing my hands, it stays on.
If I'm doing almost anything except bath time or, you know, if I happen to go swimming one day for some reason, that watch stays on.
Yeah.
I don't want to speak for you.
I mean, I don't know if maybe you're the kind of guy that like takes everything out of his pockets the moment he arrives anywhere.
I don't remember you being that way, but you could be and maybe takes his watch off the minute you're standing still for more than a second.
But for me, I never take my watch off except when I go to bed.
I don't know.
All right.
So, John, what did you order or did you not?
Before we get to that, I have one more thing related to all the people telling stories about ordering at 3 a.m., which a lot of people that I know or follow on Twitter did.
Having heard them on podcasts and read their tweets and seen their timelines, I'm very surprised by how many of them said, like Marco did, I set my alarm for 2.57, for 2.58, and then woke up and ordered the watch.
And I'm surprised by that because...
If I was going to wake up in the middle of the night to order something, I would not want to put such a small margin on, like, if anything goes wrong, if you can't get on the Wi-Fi for a second, or if the app launches slow, or if you're groggy and you tap the wrong thing...
why in the world would you cut it so close i mean 255 something like is it going to kill you to like wouldn't you want if you it just amazes me that i'm assuming people are reading the real time they really set their alarm for 258 and then just kind of like rolled over and grabbed their ipod i mean maybe it's a testament to how easy it is to order from the little app thing but geez i would never cut it that close like it's not even worth because what would i feel like if i woke up at that time and like because of some stupid tech thing uh
didn't actually get to order until five minutes after it's crazy and everybody like i must be the weird one because everybody i've heard set their alarm within like one two or three minutes of 3 a.m and i think you're all crazy i mean what if your ntp server you haven't updated your time for a while and you're off by a minute or two like by the time you get the ipod out people could have already ordered anyway
yeah but what you're forgetting though is that california in general and certainly apple pre-orders when have they ever been exactly on time you never know like why why risk it you're wet you're making yourself miserable waking up in the middle of the night anyway why would you not give yourself a margin of error these are the type and especially marco who now lives in new york is not representing well for you new york these are the people who are not on time to things because they're like well it only takes me five minutes to get from here to there you know yes if conditions are perfect you can't leave yourself five minutes
Well, okay.
In my defense, first of all, there's usually not a lot of contention for the Wi-Fi in my house at 3 a.m.
You never know what's going to happen.
What if you had to use cellular?
What if there was a power outage in the middle of the night?
That takes two seconds to switch.
And so my rationale there is because I'm actually waking myself up for this, I'm not just staying awake for it.
I'm waking up from sleep for this.
I want to be awake for the shortest time possible because the longer I'm awake, the harder it will be to go back to sleep.
It's just like the watch taking off thing.
I want to be able to get the watch on and off really fast and I want to be awake for three minutes, not five.
I was seriously considering just not waking up for it and just waking up at like six or seven in the morning for the day.
That is also a valid choice.
I'm just saying for the people who decided they were going to wake up in the middle of the night, why risk making that all for nothing?
Well, because the reality is usually with these things, like if you wake up in the middle of the night and order the new iPhone when it comes out,
You don't really have to do that.
You can probably wake up at 7 or 8 in the morning and order it then, and you'll probably still get day one stock.
There's so much stock of most of these new products when they release that you don't really have to worry about that too much.
With this, the risk was a little bit higher because it's like, well, they're saying they're going to have limited stock.
It is a brand new kind of thing, not just a brand new generation of something, so maybe they'll have very few of them, and that proved to be true.
But
The risk of missing it by a minute is really not that high.
And by the way, here it came up at 302 or whatever.
Some people that I read, I've seen responses on Twitter.
I kept switching back.
Once it didn't go for a while, I would switch back to Twitter, check it for five seconds and go back to the app try again.
And people had already put in their orders when my app was still launching clean and then saying not available.
So there's actually these little delays with like various, I assume it's like a CDN propagation.
Well, that's why you got to have redundancy.
You should be checking on your computer and also on your iPod and maybe through a VPN to something else you get a CDN.
Yeah, but see, for something like WBDC tickets, back when that was the lottery, or that was the rush system, which we'll talk about.
But back during that, it made more sense because the risk was higher.
You knew that was going to sell out in a very, very, very short time.
Whereas with new product launches, it usually is not that severe if you're a minute after everybody else.
Anyway, I didn't wake up in the middle of the night.
I didn't order a watch.
I did think more about ordering watches.
I did think about getting to the store to look at them, but I have done neither of those things.
Well, now you have until June to think about it.
Yeah, and from the sound of it, it's like, you know, if you didn't order immediately, then... Although I may have... I don't know.
I haven't made any decision about the watch.
Sometimes I think...
I should just definitely get like a really fancy one because who the hell cares?
Sometimes I think, what are you doing?
You shouldn't buy any of these things.
You're never going to use it.
So, so far that has resulted in no action on my part.
Casey?
I talked about this at length on Analog, which won't be out until this coming Sunday.
And by the time we get this episode out, it'll probably be Friday.
So there'll be a little lag.
But the short, short version is I was in D.C.
I was going to give a talk, actually the opening keynote at CocoConf D.C.
And because of that, I knew I shouldn't be waking up at three in the morning.
So I woke up at about seven, actually a couple of minutes before my alarm.
And thought, oh, let me look at Twitter and see how it went and saw that there were like 350 mistweets.
And so I immediately scrolled to the top and said, the hell with that.
Then I opened the Apple Store app on my phone and saw, oh, my God, they're shipping in June.
I must have one.
I must order it now.
So I had tremendous fear of missing out, as Mike pointed out to me.
I believe it's pronounced FOMO.
I think you're thinking of FOMO, but I'm with you.
So in any case, what I ended up doing was ordering a, I always get it wrong.
Is it Space Gray Sport or Space Black Sport?
Space Gray?
The Geek Watch.
Yeah, the Geek Watch.
42 Space Gray Sport with Black Sport Band.
That's exactly it.
So that is what I ordered.
And it is not due in until June sometime.
And I wrote, as Marco alluded to, I wrote a blog post about this.
I'm still not sure how I feel about all of it.
Obviously, I ordered one.
So I feel strongly enough that either I'm scared of missing out or that it might be good that I that I place the order.
But I don't know.
I keep going back and forth kind of like what John had said that, yeah, this should probably just get canceled.
I probably shouldn't even get this.
And then five minutes later, oh, actually, I think this might be really awesome.
And I start thinking about all the cool things I can do with it.
But in the end, I figure I'll just let it go and I'll receive the watch in June, probably after WWDC.
So I'll look at all of you with your cool kid watches and I'll be looking at my Timex Weekender crying.
But yeah, so I'll get the watch and then I'll use it for a week, week and a half.
And if I like it, sweet, then I'm glad I ordered.
And if I don't like it, no worries, I'll return it and life goes on.
I think the way they did it, so before, did your opinion change after you did a try-on appointment?
Because you went to see them later in person.
Did your opinion of any of these choices change then?
My opinion about watch bands changed dramatically, and I no longer lost nearly as much over what Stephen Hackett dubbed the Darth Vader watch, which is the... Yeah, the Black Link.
The Black Link.
So I went to two different try-on appointments.
I crashed Joel Hausman and Steph Hausman's try-on appointment.
They're friends of mine and Marco's as well that live up in D.C.
And so I crashed their try-on appointment over lunch Friday, and...
I didn't try on the watch, but I got to like, you know, feel the different bands just, you know, on the little mat.
And I got to play with the demo unit that's housed in acrylic.
And I left that thinking, my goodness, this is really bad because the demo unit I used was really non-responsive, really, really laggy.
I did not care for it at all.
Fast forward a couple of days and I went myself and did a try on on Sunday and
And I decided in short that I really do like the black sport band.
It feels a lot better than I expected.
Although I agree with you, Marco, I'm a little scared about the sweatiness factor.
I didn't really care for the link bracelet as much as I thought I would.
But I think that's in large part because the particular link bracelet that they had for try on was like three feet too big for my wrist.
And your people wouldn't adjust it, right?
Right.
And well, I kind of hinted, oh, these are really easy to change, right?
And hoping the gentleman would be like, well, yes, let me show you.
But he wanted none of it.
Well, officially, their training tells them they are not allowed to take out links for sizing.
Many of the employees are either unaware of that or are ignoring that and doing it anyway.
which I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to do that.
It makes such a big difference when you're wearing it, whether it's fit to you or not.
I can see why.
Don't you see why they don't want them to do that?
Well, because they don't want people stealing the links or something?
Little pieces, they'll get lost.
Yeah, totally.
It's under pretty good security.
They can only have two watches out at a time, and there's lots of people watching over you, no pun intended, and there's guards at the door and everything.
I mean, somebody who's really good at sleight of hand could probably get one, but it's not... You're not trying to steal them.
It's like they'll just fall on the ground, they'll fall in someone's...
sandal in california and they'll just walk out with it it'll be in someone's pocket they'll be scattered on the table and they won't get all the pieces up again like they'll just constantly be losing pieces in practice the appointments i've seen i've only gone to one store but because of various uh iphone and laptop service appointments i had i've actually been there three times since the watch just started
And it's never been crowded.
Now, granted, I go during non-peak times because going during peak times is stupid.
But it is not like some mad rush for the watch tables.
Yeah.
Yeah, I will say that the two trying appointments that I went to, one, again, that I was not the star of the show, if you will, and the other one I was, both times in two different Apple stores a couple hours apart –
In terms of driving distance, the the people that were doing the try on the employees were super nice, super patient, super helpful, really wanted to impress upon us that these are really nice devices.
And they were willing to take as much time as we wanted in order to convince us that we wanted to buy.
Well, that sounds shady, but in other words, like they just wanted us to be happy with our try on experience.
And it was really nice.
So, yeah, so trying them on.
I liked the black leather band a lot.
I had heard rumblings that the other leather.
I'm sorry, not leather sport.
I'd heard rumblings that the other sport bands felt different.
And so I asked to feel the white one and it is very different.
And I far preferred the black.
I didn't really care for the link bracelet because it was too big and too heavy, which was very surprising to me because I've had link bracelet watches in the past and I've liked them.
And I actually really, really like the Milanese loop.
However, I do understand where you're coming from, Marco, because my inclination was to put it on and leave it a little bit loose, probably too loose for the heart rate sensor.
And so I wonder if living with it would actually be more frustrating than I think it would be because I'd have to tighten it off.
And so I can see where you're coming from, Marco, on that one, that even though I think it's my favorite sitting here now, living with it, I may change my tune.
Although I have not ordered one sitting here now, there's no way I'm going to have a Milanese loop because I haven't ordered it, don't plan to, but we'll see what happens.
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Excellent.
So we have to sort of kind of follow the sponsor break with a sponsor break.
And this sponsor break is for us because guess what time it is?
It's WWDC time.
And guess what that means, kids?
It means it's T-shirt time.
That means we have our act together early this year, relatively early.
We are not scrambling at the last second.
It's a miracle.
We've actually prepared a short introduction to play for you right now.
From the beginning, what has driven ATP clothing is a compulsion to take incredible t-shirts and make them accessible, relevant, and ultimately personal.
We've conceived, designed, and developed a range of t-shirts so personal that you can actually wear them.
ATP Shirt is a singular product with a design that connects with the wearer at an intimate level to embrace individuality whilst also referencing traditional shirt vocabulary.
We've created three distinct collections.
For ATP Shirt, we start with a blend of three fibres known for their softness and durability.
Cotton is both strong and beautiful and has long been used to make fine t-shirts.
We combine it with polyester and rayon for increased resilience and innovative draping to make the softest, most comfortable t-shirts in the world.
ATP Shirt Sport is breathable, high-performance activewear, and yet it's incredibly light and durable for maximum performance.
ATP Shirt Edition is uniquely luxurious, printed with exquisite gold-coloured foil that textile specialists have developed to be much thinner and softer than real 18-karat gold.
We designed ATP Shirt as a whole range of t-shirts, enabling uncompromising individuality and elegance.
We're now at a compelling beginning, actually designing T-shirts to be warm and to be truly personal.
I'm trying so hard to compose myself.
Thank you, John.
Thank you, Matt Alexander, for stepping in and being the token Brit for that, because we couldn't have had it any other way.
He's the only Brit you know, right?
Well, one of two.
It's Matt and Mike.
It's the M-named Brits.
And Matt told me he didn't want anything for this.
However, I have to thank his wonderful business, neededition.com.
That's Need, who has sponsored us before, for giving up his time to let him do this for me, even though he's the boss.
But yeah.
He's a great guy.
So for more information on our shirts, go to atp.fm slash shirt to see the full collection of ATP shirt.
We have three sub-collections.
I don't know.
What are they called?
You can't say editions.
ATP Shirt has three collections that we've curated.
Exactly, exactly.
Orders are now live.
There's no pre-order wait.
We won't sell them to you in six months.
They're now live.
It's only here for a brief time because it's the Teespring model.
So you got to pre-order a bunch and they print them all at once and then that's it.
So if you want one, you got to hurry up.
It's about 10 days or something like that.
21 days.
Oh, good.
Well, still hurry up because, you know, podcast people are, you know, you're probably not listening to this immediately when we release it.
And if you are, thank you.
But check it out, ATP.fm slash shirt.
You don't have to wake up at 3 a.m.
to order it.
You can order it right now.
And yeah, so I'm so happy this happened.
I'm so happy this happened.
And to be clear, in case you are in a position, maybe you're driving and you're not able to look at the website, we really genuinely do have three different
We have three collections.
We have the ATP shirt sport, which is printed on kind of sort of Under Armour.
It's what is this high performance Hanes cool, dry active wear.
We have the ATP shirt, which is what is its tri blend and cotton.
And then we have the ATP shirt edition.
Marco, this is an especially wonderful touch.
Would you like to explain to us the ATP shirt edition?
The edition actually has gold colored foil as the ink.
I don't know how this works.
I don't know anything about clothing, but apparently this is a thing that like is actually fairly common these days.
There's actually like a gold colored foil as the print so that we have a gold edition of our shirt.
This is so amazing.
I'm so happy about this.
And it does not cost $10,000.
No, it does not.
Although, relatively speaking, it might as well because it's going to be... Don't tell people.
Just ATP shirt starts at $20.
We'll tell you in six months what the rest of the prices are.
Oh, God.
See, I'm terrible at this.
I'm not good at marketing.
So, yeah, the ATP shirt sport is $20.
ATP shirt is $25 in four different colors.
And ATP shirt edition starts at $50 and also ends at $50.
Unlike Apple, we will tell you the product mix.
You'll be able to tell for yourself because there's little bar charts in every single page.
We have literally no idea.
which shirts these people are going to buy if everyone wants to buy a 20 shirt fine go ahead right so we have no idea what the mix is going to be but you guys will tell us uh get out there and buy some shirts and then you can look at the little comparison bar charts and you'll see is everybody buying the sport like like the apple watch uh you don't have to those will come at the same time roughly so you don't have to buy one to get it sooner but does everybody buy the shirt uh yeah
Part of the joke is we're using the same ridiculous product naming that Apple did, but now we're suffering for it because we can't even talk about our own shirts because it's impossible to say, are you getting the ATP shirt shirt or the edition shirt?
Anyway, go to the page.
That's pictures.
Click on the one you want and buy it.
There's men's and women's style.
Make sure you don't accidentally buy a men's shirt when you wanted a women's or vice versa because the previews kind of look the same.
Particularly the sport shirt, the men's is in blue and the women's is in white.
And that's it.
There's no men's white.
There's no women's blue.
And they do look kind of similar.
And the other shirts, you can get them in black and gray.
Make sure you're buying the one you want to get.
this is so magnificent i'm so i'm genuinely so happy that this came together we may sell five shirts and i'm still going to be thrilled that this all happened yeah none of us have any idea as we're saying this like how many editions we're going to sell we have no clue i i think we're going to sell a lot i'm trying not to buy one of each like i tend to buy my own shirts even though i don't wear them to just have them which is why i'm the proud owner of every color of the hypercritical shirt those will be worth something someday in pristine condition that's right but i can't buy this many shirts i don't know which one i'm gonna get
We've sold a total of six editions already, three of the black and three of the red.
How many of those are Marco, though?
No, I haven't ordered mine yet.
Five.
No, I'm going to order one of each edition.
I have to get one for my wife, of course, and I'll get the men's for me.
And of course, and we have to tell people, in the tradition of some other product line we've heard about recently, the only difference really is the colors available and the gold foil print.
yeah they all have the same cpu yep they all are just as fast uh they all have have the same bluetooth uh connectivity which is none same artwork same yeah same amount of space same artwork uh different colors of the artwork uh slightly different positions on some of them because the different shaped shirts right i mean there's no bands but you are the band yes think of yourself as the band
You are a leather loop winding your way through the shirt.
And you come in all different colors and styles and you are special.
This is so amazing.
I can't believe we actually did this.
I can't either.
I'm so happy.
I'm just glad we did it first.
Yeah.
I was afraid of that, honestly.
I know.
Now we're in t-shirt season for podcasters and geek things because it's near WWDC time.
So this is when everyone's making their shirts.
Yeah.
So we can segue right into WWDC, where we hope to see these shirts, because they are shipping, what, May 6th or something?
WWDC starts June 8th, so there should be plenty of time for you to get your shirts and wear them to WWDC, where we hope to see you, right, guys?
Well, I'll be there.
Okay, so let's get this out of the way right up front.
Whether or not you receive a ticket, Marco, you have just said you are going?
Yes, I've already booked a non-refundable plane ticket and I booked a hotel.
So I'm there regardless.
Because there's so much good stuff.
Like now there's Alt Conf and I saw Jesse Charles doing a design conference.
So like there's and like there's everyone's there.
And there's all these like smaller gatherings of people who get together and watch the live stream and, you know, watch the keynote and then watch the sessions and everything.
So there's a bunch of good stuff going on.
I don't hope that I don't get a ticket, but if I don't get a ticket, I'm kind of looking forward to being forced to go explore more of these things, like all the conf, because it really does seem like there's a lot of good stuff going on out there.
Yeah, I completely agree.
I am also going.
I have booked my return flight, although coincidentally, I have not yet booked my outgoing flight because I'm trying to work out with Aaron whether or not she and or, well, I guess not or, she and Declan are going to come as well.
Just leave him home.
He's fine.
He's old enough now.
Yeah, he's old enough.
He's five and a half months.
He'll be fine.
We'll see what happens.
But I am going to be going for the week.
I'll be flying back Friday afternoon, which we should also talk about in a moment.
John, what is your agenda?
I like both of you entered into the ticket lottery.
If I do not get a ticket, probably won't be going.
I have hotel reservations, but they're cancelable.
I have not booked a plane flight yet.
I'm just hoping.
I mean, I'll just have to wait and see and decide then.
But right now, I don't know.
The whole reason I would be going is to go to WWDC.
I don't have apps that I'm developing today.
I don't think I can justify going out there for a whole week for nothing, but I don't know.
I'll decide when I find out what the result of the lottery is.
But unlike the two of you, I'm not committing to going at this point.
Okay.
Now, would it affect your decision if we asked all of the Internet to shame you and tweet at you and say you should go?
No, I don't think so.
All the internet is not going to be there anyway.
All the internet could be home the same as me watching the live streams of the sessions.
You know what I mean?
Some sessions.
Some sessions.
If you don't go, would you actually watch the live streams or would you just treat it like normal work week and just kind of ignore it and say, oh, I'll watch them later and then never watch them?
The fact that they're live, it's not the live.
Like last year, it wasn't like they had the streams basically that night or the next day or like there was a one day like that's fine.
Like that's what I would do is I would come home from work and, you know, put the kids to bed and then watch some WWDC sessions.
You know, I don't care that I don't have to see them live live, except for maybe I would take a day off to see Keynote State of the Union live.
But other than that, you know.
Yep.
All right.
So let's talk about the ticketing system.
And Marco, you had said you want you had some things to say, so I'll just kick it right over to you.
Yeah, I thought so.
So last year was that was the first year for the lottery, right?
Last year.
I believe you are correct.
I believe it was last year.
Right.
So so basically, you know, before the system was just you show up and buy a ticket, just like ordering a phone.
And when they run out, they run out.
And after after a couple of years of that happening, like crazily quickly, they they switch to a lottery system where you have a few days window to go and say, consider me for a ticket.
And so you throw your hat in the ring.
And what they did last year was they would email you after a few days, after submissions were cut off.
And if you got in, they'd email you and say, hey, here's a link.
You can buy the ticket within 24 hours or whatever.
Overall, it was a very good system.
The only real flaw in that is that it allowed people to duplicate sign up.
So if you had more than one developer account, which many people do, especially consultants or people who work full time and then do their own side projects or whatever.
Hi.
Yeah, exactly.
A lot of people have multiple developer accounts.
And so that allowed you to sign up.
It was stupid not to.
You should use multiple developer accounts to increase your chances last year.
and uh and so a lot of people did also that allowed people to take up slots in the system who maybe weren't that serious maybe weren't didn't really want to go that badly but like well i don't really want to go that badly but if i get a ticket then i'll go right uh this year they and and last year i forget somewhere i mentioned that they should do it this way and and this year they they changed it so that this year in order to be considered for a ticket
you had to put in your credit card and basically place an order.
And if they choose you, they're just going to charge your credit card and it's non-refundable.
So if you sign up with multiple developer accounts, there's a chance that more than one of them will win the lottery and you'll be out $1,600.
You'll be just out.
And the tickets are non-transferable and everything.
And in the past, that's been mixed as to whether you could actually transfer them or not.
But
they're pretty serious about it this time so we don't know if you can actually easily transfer a duplicate ticket if you get one from different accounts so really it's like this time there's pretty much there's very little reason to sign up multiple accounts or to sign up if you're not really that serious about it because you know if you quote win the lottery and they and they pick you you literally just get charged and that's it there's no more there's no recourse yeah
I don't know how many people were aware of that, though, because I certainly wasn't.
I went through the whole process, as always.
I did one entry.
I did one entry last year.
I did one entry this year.
I don't have multiple accounts that are even eligible to buy from, I think.
But I did not notice any.
Who reads the fine print?
I'm sure that was in there somewhere, but I'm just like, click, click, click, click, click, done.
Same here.
I imagine a lot of people are going to be unpleasantly surprised when they get charged $1,600 three times instead of the one, or when they go to cancel.
All right, I won the lottery three times.
I just got to cancel the other two.
Nope.
I mean, like you can always do a chargeback on the credit card company.
I'm sure there are ways out of this, but I don't think that was expressed in the UI in a way that made people aware of it.
I think after the fact, now we're all aware of it because we're all reading each other's blog posts from the people who did read the fine print, right?
Yeah.
I am right there with you, John.
I registered on my personal account, immediately went and registered on my work account.
And then like three hours later, a friend of the show underscore David Smith said to me, yeah, man, that sucks about the Insta charging.
And I was my words, not his.
And I said, wait, what?
He said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're going to charge you instantly if you win.
Oh.
And so I immediately backed off.
I forget which one, but I backed off and I think withdraw or withdrew is the term they used.
One of the two hats I threw in the ring.
So,
I think this makes sense.
I think this makes perfect sense from Apple's perspective in that they don't want someone to put in two or five or 10 entries.
And if you could potentially win every single one, you're not likely to do that like you did last year.
But what I wonder is, to John's point, it wasn't really obvious that that was the case.
And even if you were like, ah, screw it, there's no way I'll win.
And you put in two or three or four entries.
And then what if all four of them, let's say, win?
What are you going to do?
I mean, if you can't transfer them or if you're a solo person and you have no one to transfer them to, even if you wanted to, what are you going to do?
Are they really going to have four empty slots at WWDC?
Like when push comes to shove, do you really think Apple's going to be like, well, tough noogies?
Well, I mean, like we had an email question asking about this, but and of course, past years don't don't have necessarily have any bearing on the current year.
But the general process has been for the few years that I've gone is that you go and pick up your badge and you have to show them ID or whatever, prove that you are who you are in some way.
Uh, and that's the only time they ever connect a person to a badge.
So if you bought four of them on four personal accounts, you could go and pick up one badge, go out, go and pick up your second badge, go out, go and pick up your third badge, go out, go and pick up your fourth badge, go out.
Now you have four WWDC badges that you could distribute to your four coworkers or friends.
And for the rest of the conference, everyone is just looking to see that you have a badge and
they're not going to say this badge says john doe or you john doe prove that you're john doe that never happens now that's not to say that might not happen if you go thinking that you will never be checked and you are suddenly checked uh bummer for you right like because security changes every year but in the past what i just described has been possible so if someone did actually win the lottery four times
uh they could conceivably still get four passes and distribute them to other people the other possibility is that you entered four times because you didn't uh read the print that was there that said you were going to be charged immediately uh and you still only won one you got that you lucked out you got the advantage of having four entries when other people only had one entry and it paid off for you because you lost three times but won once so now you got one ticket and you still kind of did the same thing that uh that marco was complaining about from last year the people you know sort of
just bought a whole bunch and used the shotgun approach and crossed their fingers.
The system of charging immediately will probably work better next year when everybody knows that it's a thing.
But this year, it only worked as well as people's attention during the purchase process to notice that text there.
And I do not doubt that the text was there, but I don't know, just like your condition to just go click, click, click, click, click.
I didn't read it.
I didn't notice it.
I just assumed that if I saw anything to that effect, I would assume like, oh, they're just going to do an auth on a card, but they're not going to do a settle.
And like that's just what everybody does on purchases to make sure it's a legitimate card and stuff like that.
Right.
It never occurred to me that it would be like non-refundable.
And realistically speaking, like I said, I don't think it is non-refundable.
You can always probably dispute it with the credit card company or whatever and get the charge reversed.
Yeah, a chargeback is very possible to fix it, but that's kind of a crappy thing to do.
This is a pretty bad reason to invoke a chargeback if you end up having to do it.
And I think this is an improvement over last year's system.
I just think that the communication about this improvement...
should have been more in your face and next year i think it will be more socialized amongst all the people who care enough to to enter this lottery that it will be a better deterrent but this year seems like it'll probably shake out similarly to last year in terms of like how many people put in multiple entries and stuff
I don't
But anyone who is paying any attention at all or is friends with people who pay attention like I am is going to have heard about this.
So I don't think there'll be that many that double dip, but I am curious to see how it's handled.
I just love that for the first time ever, I paid attention to something and read something that you guys didn't.
Because I during the during the process of reserving my my first spot, I didn't reserve a second one during the process of reserving my first spot.
I immediately got that impression and immediately noticed the change.
And they were very I think they were very clear about it.
But we will see if you don't have an eye towards multiples like I was never going to buy multiples.
I have no way to buy multiples.
You know, if they're, you know, I'm just skimming the text.
It's not relevant to me.
But if like you, you are planning to go through one window, click, click, click, and then go through a second window, click, click, click.
I imagine what you were looking for is some kind of prohibition that says if you if the same person entered the lottery two times, all their entries will be nullified or something like that.
Like, that's what you should basically be on the lookout for, which would motivate you to read all the text and then actually read.
And there is actually a rule in there that says one per person, basically.
And who knows how they're going to enforce it.
Obviously, if you're playing nicely by the rules, you wouldn't enter more than one time in a system like this.
It doesn't sound like the kind of thing where if all your accounts have your name on them, so you're trying to pick up two badges with the same name on them,
You're going to, as somebody pointed out in the chat earlier, when you go in and pick up your badge, it's sort of by last name.
So you probably see the exact same person giving you your badge and signing you in.
It is by Apple ID ultimately.
So like they may be like, oh, there's two people.
What if you have two people who actually have the same name?
But of course they have two different Apple IDs.
They would have two badges that both say John Doe on them.
Right.
And they would say, I'm John Doe.
Which John Doe are you?
I'm John Doe with Apple ID, whatever.
Right.
And so you just have to keep going back and picking up more John Doe badges.
But you can also just have different names on your Apple IDs.
Right.
for your multiple accounts yeah that's true but either way it's now in order to get multiple tickets or in order to have multiple chances of getting tickets you have to jump through a lot of hoops now and possibly do do some pretty crappy things and so it's probably not worth it i i i think and i hope this would probably uh deter most people from doing that but we will see because it would be more fair of a system if people didn't do that
But the way it was last year, you kind of can't blame people for doing it because it's so easy and there's no downside.
So I think this is probably a move for the better.
It is going to be interesting to see how it shakes out as people who didn't read the text get double charged.
We'll see.
Yeah, I'm very curious to see how this goes.
And I genuinely wish the two of you guys the best of luck.
I really hope that I hope that we all get in, but I hope that you guys get in.
But we'll see what happens.
And it sounds like no matter what, Marco, I'll be seeing you out there and hopefully we'll be able to guilt John into it between now and then.
The two of you don't even want to go to the session.
So I think you should just forego tickets entirely.
I didn't say that.
You're just like, I'm going to go to alt conf.
I'm going to be hanging out at bars and expand my horizons.
No, like the reason I've never gone to alt conf is because I keep getting tickets.
And so I know that if I have a ticket to WWDC, I'm going to every session.
I always do.
I might miss one time slot somewhere maybe for something else, but that's very rare.
Ditto.
Usually I go to every time slot.
And even though I always comically pick wrong, there's always three or four different choices of things that are going on during this time slot that I'm kind of interested in or that I might be interested in.
I always pick the wrong one.
I'm always in the session that nobody else is in.
And it's always like not quite what I thought it would be.
And everyone who went to the other one said, oh, it was awesome.
I'm just terrible at choosing what to go to.
Yep, totally.
All right, before we go any further about this, let's thank somebody else if we could, please.
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We actually just made our shirt site as a page in our site like 20 minutes before the show started.
We were making this whole new page on Squarespace.
It was ridiculously easy.
We had these graphics of our shirts.
We uploaded them into little gallery things, inserted text between them.
And we wanted to customize the on-click behavior.
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You can do that.
So all this like drag and drop stuff and the fancy stuff, that's all available.
It's all very easy to use.
But if you want to go in and write some JavaScript and actually like hack the pigs, you can.
And we have.
And it's so great the way it spans the range from beginner to advanced.
and it's so easy and yeah like we could have set up another page somewhere but it was so fast and easy to just do it there and it yeah that's that's basically their selling point to geeks like us which is like we can make our own site we can make our own page we can make our own cms or use some other custom one or whatever but
Why do all that when it's so easy to just do it on Squarespace?
We'll save so much time and then be done with it.
And there's so much that they do for you that you get for free just by using their platform.
Things like, you know, not only all the dynamic features, like the cool gallery stuff, the light boxes that we had first before Casey hacked through them and removed them.
There's all sorts of cool stuff that we can do on Squarespace that you just get with like two clicks.
And it's just so great.
And compared to anything else that you as a geek or as a web developer could make yourself, it's just a massive time savings to just use theirs.
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Moments before we started recording tonight, there was a bit of a bombshell that John dropped.
John, would you like to tell us about that?
It's not a bombshell.
I've been talking about it on this podcast for like eight months.
It's a bombshell, John.
Eight months we've been talking about it.
It's the least surprising bombshell to the people who know you the best.
I don't know.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, anyway, as I've been discussing since I think I published my OS X Yosemite review last year.
I'm like, oh, I think this might be the last one.
Well, I'm now making it official.
Two things are official.
One, I actually posted something to hypercritical.co, which hasn't happened since I put up the Yosemite review.
And two, what I posted there was an explanation that I am not going to review whatever the next major version of OS X is.
that Apple will presumably announce at WWDC turns out to be.
And I've explained why I was thinking of stopping the reviews many, many times on the show.
I kind of tried to distill that explanation into a short little post that I admittedly wrote in 10 minutes before we started recording the show.
But you can go to hypercritical.co and read it.
And I don't think there's anything really new to say.
I just feel like I'm done with that.
I've done that.
uh and i i did it the best that i could do it and at a certain point the the the dread of of having to do it outweighs the joy of having done it and it kind of crossed over that threshold around 10.9 10.10 and like honestly 10.9
probably would have been the last one, except they didn't, except it was like they didn't change the UI.
And it was so clear they were going to change the UI.
And I really love round numbers.
And so I said, I'm going to hold out for 1010.
And I'm totally glad that I did.
I wrote 1010 knowing that it would more or less be my last.
I tried to end it with some amount of finality.
Obviously, it's, you know, nothing is ever over.
Like it will continue on and so on and so forth.
But it's the end of the road for me, I think.
15 years, you know, 10.0 through 10.10, plus a bunch of the developer reviews, plus 15 other things.
I think I've got it covered.
I think I did it.
And so now someone else can take over.
And so much has changed since I started writing these reviews.
When I started writing them, I was the only person writing anything about OS X before people even knew what it was.
Either you're a Mac user and you didn't hear about this at all, or you are not a Mac user and you didn't care what the hell Apple did.
Aren't they going out of business anyway?
Who the hell cares?
And so part of the reason I got any kind of notoriety was because
I would write these articles about this thing that people didn't even know it existed.
They're like, OS X?
What?
I don't know.
You can see from the first paragraph, my first five reviews were telling people that the X is a Roman numeral 10.
Which, granted, people still mispronounce, including, I've heard, by the way, the audio version of the new Steve Jobs book.
The guy reads it as OS X...
geez anyway no excuse for that but back then people didn't know what it was you know like unix and it's a mac and it's got a command line well i'm sure it won't ship with the command line because that wouldn't be a mac then like just it was such a different world um these days it's covered like forget about ios like even os 10 like there are tons of great reviews out there uh the idea of a long form uh
uh tech nerd review that goes into obsessive detail is now not a new idea it's all over the place a lot of people are great at it i i feel like i'm not needed anymore i feel like i've done what i had to do and people have got it covered and we moved on to uh scroll jacking animated video reviews anyway so i am a dinosaur from an earlier era uh the hardest thing about writing this this little summary of why i'm not doing any more os 10 reviews was that i i
i would end up having to link to my earlier reviews and boy i cannot look at those like and i say that that's the way it should be with everything that's the way it is but i go back to those old ones like why why did you think this was ready to be published like we didn't we didn't have copywriters back then we didn't really have editors to speak of it was just we didn't know what we were doing i didn't know what i was doing uh
boy definitely a different world so i i put the bottom of the uh this explanation i put links to all of my old os 10 reviews also relinks to the pre-releases and links to a couple of retrospectives i wrote a retrospective about my reviews when i hit uh 10 years worth of os 10 reviews i did a retrospective i also did one at five years five years of the os and 10 years of my reviewing them and this ending one is around 15 so
There were a lot of milestones in there, but you want to check it out, you can.
And this year, I have no doubt that you will have no problem finding some really excellent reviews of OS X, as you have been able to for the past several years.
And I'll talk about it on ATP, so if you want to hear what I have to say about OS X 10.11, whatever the hell they're going to call it, you know where to come.
I'll have plenty to say about it.
I just won't write it down this time.
So let's get ahead of at least one or two questions.
If somebody set up a Kickstarter to try to fund and buy your time in order to get you to write another review, you will not accept that money.
You will not do another review.
Is the Kickstarter for a machine that will actually pause time, allowing me to write the review in a month that goes by in an instant?
Then that might be possible.
But otherwise you can't, you know, time may be money, but money is not time.
uh and like the whole idea as i say at the end of this review the when i decided that i'm not doing this and when i told architectica that i'm not going to do the review for them or for anybody else for that matter uh i was so relieved as i thought of the idea of a summer i have a summer stretching out before me and that summer i won't be just obsessing the entire summer over this one thing
How am I going to fit it in?
How am I going to get it done?
How am I going to work it through all my vacations and kids' vacations?
Will I get it done?
When is the OS going to ship?
That's what my summers have been like.
And just the relief of being like, this summer, that's not what it's going to be like.
And of course, I just replaced that stress with a different stress by doing a bunch of home renovations.
But anyway, that's the idea.
There's a spot free in my stress pyramid, right?
And I can just take something else and put it in there.
and hopefully it will be less stressful and the second thing is like wwdc the prospect of going to wwdc and not having to write a review well it means that i'm not going to get a press pass this year right so fine so if i don't get in the lottery like last year i got a press pass from apple if i don't get the lottery this year i'm just you know tough luck right
But the idea of being able to go to WOC and just go to whatever the hell sessions I want and just just enjoy them and not frantically take notes and not obsess about what I'm going to write about.
That is exciting and relaxing to me, like going there is like a civilian that that is very attractive to me.
So that's how I know it was time to stop if I'm just like excited about all the things that are going to be different now that I'm not writing it.
Do you plan on doing some sort of small blog post for your blog or some sort of quick impressions or anything like that?
History has shown that I'm terrible at writing anything on my blog.
So I would, if you're going to bet on that, I'm going to say bet against because that's the safe bet there.
I will certainly, we'll talk about it at length here, right?
So that's, you know, it's not like I don't have an outlet for my thoughts without this long form writing thing that I do once a year.
I will talk about it on the podcast and I won't, another thing that I get to enjoy is like,
in past years i've intentionally held back my opinions about os 10 on the podcast because it's like well i'm saving it for the review like why spoil the entire review by talking about it for months and months on the podcast even though apparently it doesn't count and uh in many people's minds and only the review counts but anyway
uh now we'll just be able to talk about it as things occur to us and i won't be like hoarding my insights for this you know 30 000 word thing that i'm going to dump out and then after it dumps out trying to say trying to like retroactively say let me explain to you my thinking behind these things and when i thought them and it will be nice to just be able to say things as they come and i assume most of that will be on the podcast if i write something on on my side i suppose it could happen but it doesn't seem likely
I have mixed emotions about this era ending because I really have always enjoyed, even before I knew you, I've always enjoyed your reviews.
But now that I do know you and I've seen your stress build over the last few years especially...
I can see both sides of it.
I can see both that, man, I really wish you'd continue these because I love reading them, but also I see that it really does seem to be making you miserable more and more each time.
For the last few years, every time you say you would be writing one, I'd be surprised that you were still doing it because of how miserable it had made you the year before.
Yeah, I mean, it's always been... It's not like it's gotten more miserable.
It's always been kind of miserable.
But it's got to be balanced by like, well, do you feel like you have something to say?
Do you feel like there's something... And in the beginning, it was totally balanced out.
But like, of course, I have something to say.
This is a crazy new thing, like Unix and the Mac.
And then the operating system was this big, hairy mess.
And you're like, boy, I've got things to say about this.
If this is going to replace the Mac, they got a lot of work to do, right?
And they more or less straighten things out.
And I have my...
things that I still complain about, like the file system and the finder and, you know, all the different UI things and the doc and the graphical stuff.
But, like, at a certain point, you're like, either this could go on forever or I got to feel like that I've said what I have to say and, like, it's time, you know...
I'm not going to top myself at this point.
Maybe the writing will get better, but it's just such a different world.
iOS is so dominant that it didn't even exist when I started, and everything about OS X has to be written in terms of iOS, so half of my recent reviews are kind of like half iOS reviews because OS X features and its state in the entire industry is a reflection of wherever iOS is.
I don't know.
I just...
There I'm sure there will come a time when they release a new version of OS 10 that is such a radically different thing that I'll be like oh man I would have I could have written a review of that that would have you know returned to form or whatever but
I just feel like I need to expand my horizons.
Like what kind of writer, like this is about something I put at the bottom.
I just edited the last minute of the bottom of this post to remind people that my full-time job has never been as a technology writer.
My full-time job has never been a podcaster.
Like I'm, my full-time job is as a programmer, all this stuff I do in the quote unquote free time that I can carve out of my life with my family and my real job.
And there's not a lot of that time as anyone who has, uh,
children and a wife and a regular nine-to-five job that they go to, see how much time you can carve out for anything, really, any kind of hobby type thing.
And if those hobby things end up either...
like not being fun.
It's like, well, then when is your fun time?
It's like, well, my, after my regular job, I have a podcasting job.
And after my podcasting job, I have my free, my freelance writing job.
And then I have my family responsibilities.
And it's like, sometimes I just want to, you know, just relax and not have to do anything.
Um, and, um,
it's a balance like i mean i got paid for writing these things so that's that's good and i enjoyed writing them and i enjoyed having written them and podcasting uh is what has come to replace a lot of my writing because it honestly for me because i'm such a terribly slow writer takes less time to talk on a podcast and so the the ratio of enjoyment to investment of time is much better for podcasting so i've been
As I noted the thing, I've been podcasting.
I tried to do the math.
I didn't have time to do all the Google searching of my calendar to see.
I'm doing like, what, 1.52 podcasts a week for the past four or five years or something?
I'm practically... I'm a fairly prolific podcaster at this point.
And it takes way less time than doing a single OS X review.
Because just...
you know, we're just talking here, right?
And you just show up and you talk and the whole ATP thing of not doing research, like it makes it sustainable and puts the balance way on the side of enjoyment for a podcast.
And that's by design.
I mean, that's like exactly why we do it this way.
And, you know, I have a similar battle as you in my mind of like, when do I write a blog post versus when do I save it for the podcast?
Well, the blog posts are a little bit easier, but it's like, you know, the kind of blog post is the worst is the one where you got to look up stuff.
You're going to Intel site, you're looking at spec pages, you're looking at benchmarks and like and then what if you have to start testing things yourself?
It's so much easier to bang out like a three paragraph like this thing I just wrote here.
It's all opinion, a couple links to old stuff done and done.
There's no facts.
There's no like things that you need to verify.
And then product reviews are the worst because you got to verify things about an unreleased product from a company that doesn't isn't really particularly communicative to you.
uh, and, and there's a deadline and it's just, yeah.
So there's, there's a range within writing, but I mean that I'm a slow writer, no matter what I'm writing.
Like I'm amazed that I even got this thing done in 10 minutes.
I just sort of closed my eyes and typed in like, I would never have published that if I didn't, we didn't have the podcast deadline coming up and the shirts that we had to get up and,
That actually motivated me to just hit the publish button.
But I would have sat on that for four more days to try to get it right.
Yeah.
And I think a big part of what makes podcasting so much more attractive or more efficient of time is, you know, as we've talked about in a couple episodes ago, like...
The expectations of this medium are that it's a casual conversation.
I've spoken at a couple of conferences recently, and I talked to a few people, and I mentioned to a few people how I'm always very, very nervous to give conference talks, and I don't really like doing it that often.
And if somebody has listened to the show, that surprises them.
Because here, I don't generally sound nervous.
And my reason for the difference there is that even though a conference talk will be watched by a very small fraction of the number of people who hear the show every week, the expectations are extremely different from each of those.
So the expectations of a conference talk are that it is this...
totally pre-written rehearsed polished researched thing that is fully formed beforehand and all the work is is you know thought through and done and then it's presented to you as a complete polished product and a blog post has or a blog post has many of the same uh expectations that it's something this is like
A more formal kind of communication, a more structured, researched, more finalized, polished kind of thing that has higher standards applied to it if you have much of an audience at all or any audience.
And there were kind of reviews that you did.
that seems like it would have an even higher expectation there, inherently, of like, the things you say better be correct, you better be seeing all sides of it, this better be complete, correct, and polished, and well done, and...
I can totally understand why that would not only stress you out a lot, but why that is less and less appealing over time as you have these other outlets like podcasting where the expectations are so different and so much more kind of low-key or casual so that it's less of a time commitment.
It's less stress.
There's less pressure to have everything exactly right that you ever say.
I totally get that.
And like the value, the value, like if you were to carve up an OS X interview and to say what parts are valuable to people, it's it's shifted such that I think the parts that are the hardest work have the least value, like especially in the type of reviews I did, because it was like, oh, your reviews are in depth or technical.
But I was never like a Tom's hardware or an tech or whatever, where it's all about like benchmarks and specs and whatever.
And we love those reviews.
And I love that somebody does them.
And I love that that someone isn't me.
Right.
Because that is incredibly hard work.
And we crave that info.
But we are few and nerdy.
right and so like most people the most then that's the hardest part of the reviews to do like getting the particular details of tech or software or or compatibility or other things that i'm honestly ill-equipped to do because i don't i don't have a computer lab here like i only ever had loaner hardware for one year's review right i just have the computers that i have and i do what i can and that was fine in the early days of the web when no one knew what the heck they were doing we're all just like
banging on keyboards like monkeys trying to you know make something happen right but these days there are professional organizations that like you know have people dedicated to you know lab test things and like or experience in doing battery tests like when i had to do the battery testing for mavericks like that was miserable and there's no way in hell i did a good job as an anatech review like i couldn't i don't you know i don't have the experience those guys do it all the time they have a system they have their own custom applications like
they can test 17 different computers against each other because they have all those computers.
I couldn't do that because I don't have those computers.
And that's the hardest work.
And I think it has the least value for people who are reading my reviews because people who are reading my reviews, it's like, they want me to get that right and it needs to be there, but they're reading it for like, you know...
the the sort of like criticism or insight or historical context or uh also like uh technical background on things where it's like you know if you read my reviews because they're kind of an aspirational thing where you're like i want to be the type of nerd who understands everything in this review but i don't yet um so i can follow these links to do it and there'll be a section in you know five years ago about unix permissions and
i'm not that familiar with unix but i'm an old-time mac user and i would like someone to explain to me what the hell unix permissions are nestled in the middle of a big giant os 10 review uh that's a lot of the things that people say hey i remember reading your view and i remember the section on whatever was the first time i learned about whatever and it's like i sneak those things into the review and those are the fun parts to write about just kind of like things that i already know well that are just background information for the thing or or you know
talking about the UI criticism and stuff like that, those are easier to write.
And that's where most of the value is.
But that other stuff is so much harder to write and people seem to care less and less about it.
So I was, you know, like, I feel like the time of my style of review has come and gone and now it has swung in opposite directions where you have the super technical review, which I never was, and the super soft, touchy-feely review, which I could kind of do, but it actually interests me a little bit less.
Like I wanted to do the...
the the format of my review and the way it's sort of structured and the parts that it makes is kind of like a motley type thing where it's got all these parts that you wouldn't think mixed together but that's the mix that i wanted and that's what i did and i did it and refined that form and i feel like that's it and i feel like that form has less value to the reader these days it's less important to the reader and it's less interesting to me because i feel like i've done it you know
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
I mean, you know, you are more critical on your own work than I would venture to say probably anybody else in the audience is.
But I can see where you're coming from of like, you know, you've done this, it's done, you know, time for something else.
yeah and plus like reviewing a single product for some like even if you even if i was like i'm a full-time professional product reviewer which i'm not and have never been again but even if i was would you want to keep reviewing the same product like year after year you want to review different things you want to branch out you want to do different styles of reviews like if this was actually my full-time job i would have grown tired of this long ago because it was only like a once yearly thing i could tolerate it for longer but it's like you know i want some variety too right
I'm sad, John.
I'm sad.
It wasn't that long ago that we were making videos about getting our fingers ready to read your review.
And now it's a time long gone.
Get your ears ready to hear me complain.
LAUGHTER
My ears are always ready for that, John.
Amen.
You just made an unintentional gaming reference.
Congratulations, Marco.
This is the new twist on the John makes a reference that nobody gets.
Now Marco is making a reference that nobody gets.
Including me.
Yeah, he said his ears are ready.
still nothing yeah i know you're not gonna get it you don't get it but you made it someone in the chat room will is this like when when americans try to speak english to non-english speakers just by repeating themselves slowly and loudly no it's just just another reference all right what uh what else is awesome these days
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Oh, yeah.
I love those posts.
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um what else do we want to talk about about wwdc i was gonna say like to get back to the os 10 review so how does this affect my decision it does affect it because it's like if i don't uh you know win the lottery i'm not gonna get a press pass because last year i got the press pass through arstechnico who i was writing a review for i'm not doing that uh again this year unless apple wants to give me a press pass for adb which i will gladly accept but anyway um
I don't have a reason to be there other than recreation and seeing people, right?
And so...
That changes my calculus of whether I would go or not, because there's no quote unquote work related reason for me to be there.
It would be entirely social and vacation.
Really, I want to go to the sessions.
I want to get that experience of being able to go there and enjoy them without having like homework, so to speak.
So that does factor into my decision of whether I will go out there for a shorter period of time for the whole time or not at all.
If I don't happen to get a ticket.
yeah it's also i think it will change everyone's calculus also that uh hotel prices seem to have gone up this year noticeably yes yes like everything is seems more expensive because yeah like the plane ticket i'm sure is going to be terrible too but i didn't already buy my plane ticket because i'm waiting to see if i get a lottery right
Yeah, I mean, like usually for this thing, usually the hotel is the biggest cost, often matching or surpassing the cost of the conference ticket itself.
So you're looking at like $2,000 for the hotel for the week, and it's $1,600 for the ticket, $3,600.
Then you're, you know, the plane ticket, you're probably looking at another $400 to $800, depending on maybe more if you're coming from internationally.
So you're looking at like, you know, $4,500 worth of base cost here, plus expenses that you incur while you're there.
Plus, you got to take vacation days.
So I can totally see why this would like as these costs go up.
And I'm not getting any of this money back.
Like ours would pay for my travel and my ticket.
Or in the case of a press pass, you know, Apple would pay for the ticket.
Like there is no reimbursement.
You know what I mean?
I'm willing to go out of pocket for it, like despite the fact that it's really expensive.
Fine.
But like it all factors in.
Yeah, I mean, I hope we can get you there because I think it would be a shame if you were not there.
However, for people who choose not to go because it's very expensive, I totally can understand that.
All right.
Well, we'll see.
You know, something I've been thinking about is what happens if, John, you don't get a ticket, if, Marco, you don't get a ticket, and then I get a ticket?
Because we've already established earlier in this show that I don't do well with missing out on things, apparently.
This is like a new discovery for me.
Yeah.
But I don't I almost wonder if that would be not worse, but bad.
I mean, I would still absolutely go to the conference and I would still try to learn as much as I can because I enjoy it so much.
And I always get I always feel like so amped up on the way home about all the awesome new stuff I've learned and about what's coming from Apple.
But yeah.
I would really, to some degree, I would be a little bit bummed if I was the only one that got a ticket because then I'd be missing out on all the fun things that maybe you guys would be doing or just Marco or whatever.
No, I wouldn't be doing any fun things.
Yeah, that's true.
All the fun things Marco would be doing.
Good call.
No, I mean, I think what would happen is that if John doesn't get a ticket, I bet he's not going, right?
I mean, that's very... I bet that's what happens.
If I don't get a ticket, then I'll go and I'll see you at night.
And then I will walk by you in the keynote line at 9.30 a.m.
Yes, you will.
When I have just woken up and I'll have a fresh cup of coffee, which you don't like anyway.
Maybe I'll walk by with like a fresh, I don't know, vodka or whatever you drink at 9.30 a.m.
I don't know.
It's something to make you feel jealous.
How about an orange juice?
That's what the alt-conf people do.
The people who don't go to the conference, they just stay out until 5 a.m., wake up drunk, like, yep, WWDC.
Yeah, they can stream the keynote live at 10 a.m.
when they have just woken up for that purpose and not having woken up at, like, 5.30 to go get online.
So that's what will happen.
You will do the homework for the rest of us by going to the conference and going to the sessions.
And that's it.
I mean, I would feel bad if I get a ticket and you don't.
Oh, and ditto.
I would feel guilty if I got a ticket and you didn't because you could make a very reasonable argument and you deserve it more.
And I'm giving air quotes here.
Yeah.
I mean, you could make a very valid argument that you are actively developing iOS apps, so you should have the ticket more than I should.
Yeah, but like I was talking to our friend underscore David Smith about this.
How much more value do you get out of being there in person than if you just watch the sessions as they live stream and do that?
And so the biggest value is, you know, there's some socialization aspects of seeing people in the conference center and the various like spontaneous meetings you have there.
Academically, the biggest value is probably the labs.
There are some sessions that are not live streamed or videoed, like the lunchtime sessions are usually not released on video.
And the videos also, the videos edit out any periods of applause or laughter.
And usually in the videos, usually you can't see the presenter.
It only shows like it's just video of the slides and any demos that take place.
So you do miss a lot of like the nuance of the presentation.
But for the most part, you're missing the socialization and the labs.
and i have had very good experiences in the lab so far however this year i don't really have like any really big pressing questions i have for the lab right now well you want to know you want to know how to make overcast for the new apple tv right yeah yeah we'll see if that's if that's a thing uh but yeah like in reality like if if i get a ticket i'll be very happy i will use it as much as i possibly can use a ticket
If I don't get a ticket, I will be bummed, but I will still have a really good week.
Yeah, yeah.
But it is kind of inconvenient.
If you go with a group of friends or coworkers every year, it is really awkward that...
And ever since demand started really outstripping supply a couple of years ago, now you have these like split crews where like you have like, oh, well, only one of us got in or everyone got in except that one guy or something like that.
Like it's it's it certainly causes social pressures and like weird, weird things, I think.
This is where it pays off to be antisocial because us antisocial introverts are in our element when we are not in a group.
I guess I have to splinter off on my own and go through a series of sessions all by myself and not talk to anybody.
That's paradise.
Well, and you were great because you would always go to the Mac-only sessions that nobody else went to.
I know.
There's nobody in those rooms anymore.
It's just me and a bunch of lonely Mac developers.
Those are fun.
The not well-populated ones were great.
You'd be sitting there and Craig Federico would come in and sit two seats over to you.
Hey, it's just five people here listening to this talk about some Mac framework that no one cares about because iOS is the new hotness, right?
Yeah, I will.
I think it's important to point out, though, that for the last couple of years, I feel like the three of us have spent a fair bit of time critiquing and really complaining about the WWDC ticket process and.
Granted, we're not all bitter right now because we don't know if we're getting tickets or not.
But I think this is probably as good a process as they can really get for a situation where, like Marco said, demand desperately outweighs the supply.
Well, there was the rumor about them using a bigger venue.
Do you remember that?
Like, oh, they're going to use north and south and not west, and therefore the supply will be slightly increased.
And that turns out not to be the case as far as we know, right?
Yeah.
That's correct.
I mean, that would be good, but that would potentially change the feeling of the show.
I feel like I'm coming across a little snobby and get off my lawn and you know what, oh well.
But part of the magic of WWDC is that it's the right amount of people, I think, so that when you have, like when we go, I know, I personally know maybe 50 people there, generally speaking.
And it's not unreasonable or rare for me to see most of those 50 people in and out of the sessions throughout the day.
And if the conference was 10 times bigger, just for argument's sake, then I may not see those people.
And just like you've been saying, Marco, part of the beauty of WWDC is those impromptu conversations that you have with friends that you do and don't know in the halls in between sessions.
And so, I don't know, I'm sure it would probably be for the greater good if it was bigger, but it would definitely feel different if it was bigger.
Yeah, I mean, ultimately, it's what you make of it.
And if you go... It's such a big community now that anything that any of us say about it is not representative of the whole.
There's so many people who are iOS developers.
There are so many people there who we don't know, who don't know us, who aren't...
It isn't just one big community.
It's a bunch of small communities.
So if you go and seek out a certain group or your friends or people you want to talk to or have business discussions with or whatever, you can find them.
If you're looking around randomly, like in front of Moscone, looking for somebody in particular, you're going to have a hard time with it.
But that's true whether you get in or not.
That's true how many people are there or not.
Really, I think it's what you make of it.
Yeah.
That made no sense.
Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Automatic, Squarespace, and Backblaze, and we will see you next week.
Now the show is over.
They didn't even mean to begin because it was accidental.
Accidental.
Oh, it was accidental.
Accidental.
John didn't do any research.
Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental.
It was accidental.
And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T, Marco Arment, S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A, Syracuse.
It's accidental.
Accidental.
They did it.
so in the last week apple has done all this crazy stuff with the watch and try-ons and we're all talking about bands meanwhile they also like solved photos did they and that's like the least paid attention to they released photos let's just say that they solved photos
i i haven't used it that heavily yet however it did import my whole library and it seems amazing we're not supposed to be talking about it now i'm gonna save it for next week all right all right i just i just think it's funny like photos like it sucks it's like this massive challenge this big problem of like no one's done this really right yet and it looks like apple might have done exactly that and released it this week and almost nobody noticed
well there was a lot of reviews about it there were a lot of previews for it i think apple was good about you know with the public beta of it and the beta of iCloud photo library and then when it actually came out like i felt like it was pretty well covered but it is one of those topics that we'll keep because this is like a long-term thing and we've talked about photos forever and we've talked about photos and the feature set it provides and now it's just down to like okay the thing came out how does it work and i think we'll see
Save that for next week because I will have many things to say about it, and I made these nice notes, and we'll just leave them in there.
Fair enough.
What is this thing, the draft generator thing?
All right, this may or may not make it into the final show because it's kind of boring, but I was curious your input from the two of you.
So I wrote recently a draft generator for my site.
So the idea is when I write for my site on my primary computer,
I have an instance of Node running, basically an instance of my entire site running on my local computer.
So I'll write a bit.
I'll go to Safari.
I'll refresh the page, see how it looks.
But occasionally, not often, but occasionally, I will be writing a blog post on my iPad or on Aaron's computer or something else that I can't even think of.
And I want to be able to preview exactly how this markdown will look rendered on the site.
So I wrote this draft generator, which all it is is a big, huge text area and a button that says render draft.
So you paste your markdown in the big text area, you hit the render draft button, and it will render the draft.
And it looks at a glance like it's a real post.
Now, because it looks like a real post, I don't necessarily want to make this draft generator public in that I don't want anyone to be able to just slam some markdown onto my site and make it look like I wrote something.
Am I being paranoid?
Absolutely.
But just bear with me here.
So what do I do to prevent malicious use for something that really is fairly inane to begin with?
What I've chosen to do is use a semi-peculiar URL that I know I'll remember, but I don't think people would necessarily stumble on.
So it's, you know, the textbook security by obscurity.
But I was curious, I don't want to do like a full-on auth system because it's just a draft.
Who cares?
What do you mean a full-on?
Just do basic auth.
It's fine.
Yeah, that's what I do on mine.
I mean, it's better than nothing, right?
Well, but why bother?
Because it's... Because basic auth is better than security through obscurity.
Right.
Slightly, but, you know, he's not even using HTTPS, so, like, whatever.
But, you know, it's still better than, like, they won't guess my URL.
And I was just curious if you guys had any more interesting and more clever and less obvious ideas.
You could do real auth.
I mean, you wrote the code for the site.
You could do real auth on it, too.
Like, that's a fun little exercise if you...
want to do that but basic auth is like you don't have to write the code for it just let the lousy browser do the thing that it does yeah i mean basic auth with https is like really no worse than a lot of systems out there well you know it's fun it's fun to do it yourself but like i think the the main thing i was thinking of i know you're saying it's like different computers is the use case here but this is the type of thing that i do offline like my
My hypercritical posting system is I write in BBEdit and next to the BBEdit window that I'm writing in, I have a real-time live preview with my site template showing it exactly how it will look in context on my site through the magic of BBEdit's preview filters and templates and all the other crazy-ass features that BBEdit has.
I don't have to click a button to render draft.
As I'm typing, I see exactly what it's going to look like right next to where I'm typing in real time.
That's basically what I'm doing 99% of the time.
It's not real time.
I have to go and hit refresh, but that's basically what it is.
But what had happened was I'd written the Apple Watch post, I believe on my iPad, if memory serves.
And I had done my best to guess at what it would look like by just looking at a generic markdown preview.
But as it turns out, there were a couple of minor formatting issues here and there that I really wanted to tweak, including an image that went wrong.
And so I really want to be able to see it on the site.
And so again, I figure, well, I'll just eat the markdown, run it through the rendering pipeline, and call it a day.
But even though I don't think anyone would likely do anything nefarious with this, it's still, I feel a little exposed by having it out there.
And I, and I guess basic auth is really the right answer.
And God knows there's probably, if it's not built into node, there's probably some 300,000 line package I can get from NPM that'll, that'll solve this problem for me.
But, um,
I don't know.
You could just read the header and it's pretty simple.
If you need to do it yourself, it's not that hard.
That's true.
I don't know.
I was curious if you guys had any clever ideas or if you thought I was being insane for even trying to put this behind off.
My question is, when the hell did the navigation item in your toolbar change to creep?
It's always been there.
I don't like that.
Also, I keep crashing your site.
Yeah, don't type nothing in the field and hit render draft to get a JavaScript error.
That's the first thing I did.
Yeah, I can't get anything to render.
That's part of the problem is that you probably are missing metadata.
See, and this was designed only for me.
so um you're probably missing a bunch of metadata that i know to include but nobody else would well let's get back to creep why is that item called creep you're trying to say that by by anyone wanting to know about anything that you do that is creepy therefore click the creep button to find out what podcasts you've appeared on that's not creepy i just i wanted something more interesting than uh appearances did you click the link did you see what the slug is
Yeah, it's not stalking.
You want people to listen to you on podcasts, not like, how dare you find out what podcasts I'm on and listen to them.
You want that to happen.
That's why you're on podcasts.
And now for our regularly scheduled segment of making fun of Casey's website implementation details.
Yeah, seriously.
This is not an implementation.
This is copy editing.
We need Faith on here to write some good copy for you.
Faith would not put creep as one of the main nav items.
guaranteed that's probably i see i think it's tongue-in-cheek and funny but and i can see what you're saying then maybe that doesn't come across exactly how you're just you're just undercutting yourself casey we're here to tell you that when you should not be have we met of course i am this is what i do who's gonna be it's gonna be you and steve uh on the podcast to see who can undercut themselves the most yeah i think that's the plan at some point
I think you have him beat.
Of course, that will make you feel better.
And maybe now you don't have him beat.
Oh, goodness.
Well, the chat room is somewhat coming to my defense, but your logic is sound for sure.
It is an expression of your personality.
I'll give you that.
But I feel like you don't need to be... Self-deprecating?
You don't need to be sabotaging yourself.
You should be promoting yourself.
This site is all about you.
It's CaseyList.com for crying out loud.
It should be all about the awesome things that CaseyList does and how awesome they are.
What would you use if not appearances?
Which not only is a long word, but it's what everyone uses.
And I want it to be slightly original.
I don't know.
I mean, you have lots of options there.
I have my appearances off of my about page.
I don't have it as a top-level item, but I don't...
I would say there's nothing wrong with the word appearances because if that's what I'm looking for, I would never think to click on a link that says creep.
That's an interesting point.
Yeah, I wouldn't know what that was going to be.
Am I going to see a creep?
It's to say that I am a creep.
It's like hamburger navigation.
Is that a verb?
It's like, do I want to creep right now?
It is.
It is meant as a verb, actually, all kidding aside.
It's like the kids these days say.
But that's like creeping forward.
I don't know that I would necessarily... I think the kids will get what the creep is about.
I got what it was about, too, but maybe it's only because I know Casey and I know what must be buried under that link.
Actually, TTE Pass, I probably butchered that, said elsewhere.
That's not bad.
Appearances, I think, is more direct, but elsewhere isn't a bad option.
appearances like you just did a conference talk like that's an appearance called appearances yeah yeah i don't i just i don't think it looks good if i think i did try that at some point i thought it was just way too long yeah it might you might have to look for a shorter word to go to the source or something you need to a b tesis obviously to see you know there's probably a node package for that we put a picture the pictures of celebrities in unflattering poses do people click on that more or less than the creep
manifestation i'm looking at this thesaurus for appearance uh speaking of creep and manifestation oh god i have been shopping for home improvement things online i've been shopping for uh lamps outdoor lamps online not shopping but just like looking searching and everything
And now every web page I go to is covered with the same 900 pictures of lamps that I've looked at.
Like, I don't understand.
Like, I never knew how pervasive whatever it is, this ad network that has my number now.
It's like on every site.
I'm like, here too?
Seriously?
The lamps?
They're here again?
They're everywhere.
It is unbelievable.
And it's the same lamps.
I'm like, I've already looked at them.
It's just like...
you know i'm just gonna have to enable ad blocker or something like now i understand the people who you know it's like they're ugly i liked it better when i was being randomly advertised to with whatever they were doing before i guess it still beats the terrible line drawings of one weird trick fat belly business things i really hate those but the lamps are are close second man the web sucks these days it's like
Oh, it's so bad.
All this stuff.
It just seems like everyone's in such desperation to try to increase their ad prices and their returns.
Web pages just look awful to me now.
So many pages I go to now, there's very few holdouts that still have tasteful, reasonable layouts and don't have those awful clickbait ads on them and everything.
It's really sad.
i just want to see like ads show me like ads for like asus laptops and like ssds like i'm willing to see ads for like some i don't click on them but i look at them and sometimes they're like oh yeah maybe our ssds are getting cheaper like the ads work in that way but i know that i've been searching for lamps but that doesn't mean that's it your whole world is lamps that's how long is this gonna last for the next three years of my life eventually i'm gonna buy some lamps and then i will be done but these ads will still be like lamp lamp everywhere i go it is just unbelievably pervasive
I never would have called like I don't even know which sites I'm going to but it's like every site I go to every link I tap and like Twitter or something lamps so creepy yeah speaking of creep I've never in the past been tempted to install an ad blocker modern web pages are getting so bad and modern ads are getting even more and more intrusive like there's so many more like hover over pop over kind of things now that like
It loads the page for two or three seconds.
Then it pops over a thing over the content and you have to dismiss it.
Yeah, good luck hitting the little X with your finger.
Yeah, right.
Anything that is not the X is I want to go to the ad's website.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, it's getting so bad now.
Even sites that used to have higher standards, now for whatever reason, whether it's good reasons or not, they don't or they can't maintain those same standards properly.
And so like otherwise good sites now have these even worse ads on them and it's getting so horrible.
Like I don't like the idea of running an ad blocker, but I've never been closer to doing it than I am now just because it is really getting difficult to read the web.
I don't know.
It's weird because I write software for the web for a living, but when I search for lamps and find lamps all over every ad-enabled website I ever visit, it creeps me out.
God, does it creep me out.
Yeah.
It's weird.
And now I'm thinking even more that I need to change the word creep on my header.
Yeah.
What about sightings?
Sightings?
It doesn't really work for audio, which most of your appearances are.
You're not Bigfoot.
Wow.
There you go.
I was going to go with Sasquatch, go with Loch Ness.
What you want is a word that is descriptive, but that is not arrogant or pompous sounding.
How about it works?
That is arrogant and pompous sounding.
That's my best arrogant and pompous sounding word.
I like elsewhere because it is not arrogant and pompous sounding.
Appearances is a little bit on the bad side of that.
It's not.
It's accurate.
He just gave a conference talk.
That is literally an appearance.
Yeah.
But sightings is more arrogant because sightings is like other people have done this for me.
Other people have spotted me in these places.
Whereas appearance is like here's where I've been and people have looked at me.
And elsewhere is just here's other things I have done.
Yeah.
Although as think diff is pointing out in the chat, the title of the page is appearances coincidentally, but I don't know.
I just, I wanted a different word in the header and I think elsewhere might be the winner.
Now the problem is if we leave this in the show, by the time everyone goes and looks at my website, they're going to be like, what are they talking about?
It already says elsewhere or whatever the case may be, but that's all right.