Promoretired
Casey:
I know this is pre-follow-up, and that's kind of against the rules to put anything before follow-up in the show deliberately.
Casey:
But John isn't here right now, and so I can get away with it because I say I can.
Casey:
I wanted to tell you guys that I have amended and changed my water routine for when I record.
Casey:
The reason I've done that is because I have now killed Aaron's laptop twice.
Casey:
This is the Mighty Mug, I believe it's called.
Casey:
And what's amazing about it is if I push on it, it doesn't fall over.
Casey:
Yet if I just pick it up, it works no problem.
Casey:
Let me get the mic closer so you can get a... So I can hear the water not spilling on the laptop?
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
So here we go.
Casey:
I'm pushing.
Casey:
Nothing's happening.
Casey:
How amazing is that?
Casey:
And then if I just pick it up, no problem.
Yeah.
Casey:
So, yeah.
Casey:
So I just want to let you know that my water situation is now better because of underscore David Smith.
Casey:
So I appreciate that.
Casey:
That guy makes everything better.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He really does.
Casey:
And you know what else makes everything better?
Casey:
Doing a crossover with Rocket.
Casey:
And so the voice that you hear that is not John Syracuse is a friend of the show, Christina Warren.
Casey:
So, Christina, welcome.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm glad to be here.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm glad to be here.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I feel like I'm not sure if you guys got the good end of the bargain or the bad end.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So John is on – Syracuse is on Rocket right now, the podcast I do with Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I'm here.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I'm super excited, but –
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
As are we.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Some of the audience members are not.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm already seeing some hate tweets come through, which is awesome.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Send them on forward.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, seriously, Phil Slip, dude, hate on.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's already happening?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's already happening, which honestly is awesome.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And here's the thing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, like, obviously, I don't deal with
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
As much stuff as a lot of women on Twitter, I'm very fortunate.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I have a very thick skin because I've been in the media business for a long time.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So honestly, you can hate – I hope the listeners don't hate me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I hope they like me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But if they don't, that's okay and it's not going to hurt my feelings.
Casey:
So we're just doing a little something special.
Casey:
We're, like I said, sending John over to Rocket.
Casey:
We have Christina here, which is excellent.
Casey:
And by the way, Rocket is really good.
Marco:
Thank you.
Marco:
I think I keep not saying this in public because I keep thinking I've already said it.
Marco:
And I don't want to say it as a tack-on when we're talking about women in tech, because that kind of seems kind of patronizing.
Marco:
Right, right.
Marco:
But not only is it very good, not only have I heard every episode, but it has quickly joined one of my top few priority slots in Overcast, that when it comes out, I listen to it usually same day, if not the next day, because it is just one of my favorites.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, thank you.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm super psyched to hear that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
We've really enjoyed it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, it's been a fun process.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I don't know about Bree, but I know that I totally went into it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was like, yeah, we totally want to do an ATP, but with kind of female voices.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So thanks, you guys, for having created, accidentally, such a great show that we could copy and profit from.
Yeah.
Casey:
I agree with what Marco said, and lest this turn into a two-hour accidental mutual admiration society, let's just start with some follow-up as per usual.
Casey:
Wait, are we allowed to do follow-up without John?
Casey:
Dude, whatever.
Casey:
He's not here to yell at us.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I was going to say, like, really?
Marco:
We should go through it in like 30 seconds.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I can complain if you guys need somebody to complain and him and all about stuff.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I can do that.
Marco:
I'd be curious to hear that.
Marco:
So first of all, how many windows do you have open right now, Christina?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
One, two, three, four, five, six.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So only six.
Marco:
That's okay.
Marco:
You are definitely not a John replacement.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No.
Marco:
None of us can be.
Casey:
Yeah, that's just not it.
Casey:
All right.
Casey:
So some quick follow up.
Casey:
Number one, the show bot is apparently not working for the first time in months.
Casey:
And I'm not going to try to diagnose that right now.
Casey:
So John missed that.
Casey:
I know.
Casey:
See, this is already taking a turn we didn't expect.
Casey:
So this might relate to the fact that Heroku has very recently changed their pricing, and I'm not sure if the showbot has now run afoul of that, and I am not going to diagnose while I'm on the air.
Marco:
Is this like one of those exciting new opportunities that really just makes everything worse and more expensive?
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
Simple answer, yes.
Marco:
Long answer, maybe.
Marco:
Did the announcement begin with, we're happy to announce.
Marco:
We're incredibly excited to tell you about how we've made our service worse and more expensive.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Salesforce is happy to say that we finally figured out a way to profit off of all of these.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
What are they called?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Raptors?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
What are they?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Dinos.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Dinos.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Thank you.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I like that better.
Casey:
see to me this it's all like these are all voodoo made up terms by heroku so like that's raptor's good as any exactly exactly so um so yeah so i apologize for the show bot uh really quickly i alluded to aaron's laptop earlier aaron's laptop is on its way to the depot whatever the depot is i brought it to the apple store on monday on memorial day i fessed up and said water was spilled on it and
Casey:
This was about halfway through the conversation with the genius.
Casey:
And the moment I said water was spilled on it, the conversation effectively ended.
Casey:
Yep.
Casey:
And he said, okay, that means it's a tier four repair, which apparently, obviously, there's multiple tiers for sending it to the depot.
Casey:
That's a tier four repair, which will be $665 for parts, no matter how much or little needs to be repaired, plus $100 for labor, plus tax.
Casey:
So I'm in for $755, I think it is.
Casey:
I'm sorry.
Casey:
Okay.
Casey:
$755 plus tax.
Casey:
I'll get it back in about a week.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
This is for a MacBook Air, correct?
Casey:
That's right.
Casey:
This is for an eight-month-old MacBook Air that I got Erin for her birthday last year because I'm the best husband ever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Totally.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Isn't it a shame that AppleCare Plus on the phone and the watch and the iPad will cover water damage, but they don't offer AppleCare Plus for the laptops?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because that would totally be amazing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I would pay another $50 if I could get water damage covered on my MacBook.
Marco:
Yeah, well, in retrospect... I don't know.
Marco:
On the other hand, though, how much would they charge for that?
Marco:
Because regular AppleCare on that is, what, $250 and $350 for the 15s?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, that's what I'm saying.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, if you had, say, another $50 on, I personally would probably pony up for it.
Marco:
Yeah, but see, that's the problem.
Marco:
It wouldn't be only $50.
Marco:
Because what is it with the watch?
Marco:
Or with the phone, even.
Marco:
It's $100 for regular...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
With the phone, it's $100 for regular, and then it is $75 for a replacement if you need to have it replaced, and you can have two of those.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
For the iPad, it's also $100, but it is $50 per replacement.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Apparently, I'm assuming, just based on this, they must replace a whole lot more iPhones than they do.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And that's why they charge a higher replacement fee.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And in fact, the replacement fee went up this year like it was $50 and now it's $75.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But, you know, if you're like me and you're walking up some steps after a meeting with some people and you literally fall forward and you trip on your flip flops and shatter your phone screen right before XOXO.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
which coincidentally is the day before the iPhone 6 pre-orders go on sale.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like you need a phone and you go like, okay, well, I got to go to the Apple store and get a new one.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And AppleCare Plus came through.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, and people were like, oh, you could have just waited and pre-ordered the 6.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I was like, first of all, I couldn't actually swipe on the screen.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like I would get glass in my fingers.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Second of all, the phone has to go to my husband because he gets my tech hand-me-downs.
Yeah.
Marco:
And it would probably cause problems if you gave him a shattered, untouchable phone.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Oh, completely.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, we already did that with the iPhone 4 or 4S.
Marco:
How did that go over?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was okay.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That one wasn't that bad, but it was a little bit chipped, and I never ended up... This was before they had, I think, the AppleCare that covered the damage, the accidental damage or whatever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And so...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It worked fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then he ended up doing something to it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then I think he wound up giving it to a homeless person.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Only in New York, you guys.
Casey:
OK, I'm not even sure where to go from there.
Casey:
Oh, my goodness.
Casey:
So, yeah.
Casey:
So Aaron's laptop is at the depot getting repaired.
Casey:
I'm already getting suggestions in the chat room about what I could or should have done with respect to those of you making those suggestions.
Casey:
Don't care.
Casey:
It's already done.
Casey:
The ship has sailed.
Casey:
It is what it is.
Marco:
I am curious, though, because once you're talking almost $800 to repair it, that's fairly close to the price of replacing it, right?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.
Marco:
So I'm curious why you chose to go that route.
Marco:
I mean, is it just like, you know, the extra $300 or $400 you just thought was worth it?
Casey:
That's enough.
Casey:
The $300 or $400 just didn't seem worth it to me since the machine was so darn close to new.
Casey:
And...
Casey:
But Erin doesn't have particularly robust needs of her computer.
Casey:
If anything, I'm the one who has bigger needs insofar as it needs to be able to withstand spills and do podcasting and whatnot.
Casey:
So it just didn't seem worth it to me to spend another $300 or $400 just to get something brand new.
Casey:
And this Tier 4 repair is basically going to go through the entire computer and replace darn near all of it.
Casey:
So...
Casey:
I didn't see the point in doing anything different.
Casey:
People are saying, oh, well, you could have sold it for parts and gotten a new one.
Casey:
Yes, I'm sure I could have.
Casey:
I could have gazelle-ed it, perhaps.
Casey:
Yes, I'm sure I could have.
Casey:
They probably test for that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, they do, but gazelle will give you a discounted amount of money if they find that it's damaged or something.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So if you sold it to gazelle saying it has water damage, they would say, okay, well, we value this at $300.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
In which case, though, you'd still wind up spending the same amount of money anyway buying a new one.
Marco:
But then you'd have a new one.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, but he's basically going to get a new one anyway.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
Well, there are a couple things.
Marco:
You don't have Broadwell, right?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, that's what I was going to say.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You are actually correct.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The new one would have Broadwell, whereas the 2014 just had Haswell.
Marco:
And the new one would also have a warranty that started today.
Casey:
Yeah, that's true.
Casey:
I mean, you could have quarterbacked this differently.
Casey:
No, no argument.
Casey:
But it just I just wanted it done and fixed.
Casey:
And this was the most reasonable way in which I felt I could do that without spending three hundred dollars.
Casey:
That seemed to me to be unnecessary.
Casey:
It is not it certainly I would have gotten or Aaron would have gotten things for that three hundred dollars.
Casey:
But it's it wasn't a big enough difference to really justify it in my personal estimation.
Casey:
You as in the collective you may not agree.
Casey:
And that's OK.
Casey:
And we're going to hear about it.
Casey:
And we're going to hear about it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, the thing, too, is that since I think that they'll be able to just, like, move all the data over or whatever, I mean, that, you know, I mean, obviously, I'm sure you have an entire time machine backup strategy and all that stuff done.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, we all have our synologies.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think we all have the same model, the 1813 plus.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yep.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But, you know, you have a whole setup going that way.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But even just the process of having to reset everything up again, I think it'll come back with its hard drive and everything intact.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, that is probably worth not getting the new machine and having to set it all up again.
Casey:
Exactly.
Casey:
It's just not worth it to me.
Casey:
So that's the way it is.
Casey:
And I'm already getting sick of this follow up.
Casey:
So let's move on.
Casey:
We got a lot of follow up about running with your iPhone.
Casey:
And quite honestly, I don't care because nobody really has good answers.
Casey:
So let me let me, since John isn't here, just say nobody really knows what the hell is going on.
Casey:
And that's basically the end of the meeting.
Marco:
Right.
Marco:
I love that we just got to skip right over this.
Marco:
I actually just about 15 minutes ago, right before the show, I was for the first time running briefly because I don't really running briefly and then walking a lot between the running with my watch with no phone.
Marco:
because i had to fill my green circle for the day right and it's been raining all day as christina you know being in new york yes bro well it started raining later this afternoon but it's been gross out regardless well yeah it's it's been pouring rain for my entire potential dog walking window uh that i usually take which is basically anytime after four uh so i knew i'd be recording this show until almost midnight in all likelihood so uh sorry christina if that if you did if you weren't prepared for how long i'm not sure what he told you
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I didn't know it was going to go on that long.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I'm totally cool with that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
My husband who's in his office, like he might get a little, no, he'll be fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He's got the Plexbox and Sonar, which is this amazing torrenting news group app.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Do you guys know about Sonar?
Marco:
No, I don't think we're supposed to know about things like that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, we're probably not supposed to talk about things like this, but it's amazing.
Marco:
Like Unison.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Kind of.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's basically an app that has a really good interface, a web app, that you can connect it to a private torrent tracker or to newsgroups, which is how we have it set up.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And it'll basically find any TV show you want, and it'll find it in whatever quality you want it to do, and then it'll tag it and label it and title it exactly as you want it and file it on your NAS or whatever the way you want it, and then Plex just imports it in and...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
all of a sudden you have every episode of keeping up with the kardashians ever true story so it's kind of sort of popcorn time but not necessarily about the streaming portion exactly because like it's actually locally downloading it um it's just making it super easy to do so for instance i'm i wanted to watch keeping up the kardashians but also we have all of hbo silicon valley and the thing is we pay for hbo and hbo go and i actually have like a
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
a subscription to HBO now, which I know was superfluous, but I got a six month subscription for free.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I've got that in addition to the HBO we pay for, which has all the on demand stuff, but there's just something convenient about having a through one interface.
Marco:
I don't know.
Marco:
How is HBO now in general?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's good.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, it's identical to HBO Go.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So you don't have live content, meaning like there's not like live linear programming, but basically within an hour or two of it airing on TV, it's available in the app.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It looks really good on the Apple TV and the iPhone and iPad apps are really good.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The web interface is good too.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
HBO Go recently updated their apps to basically look the same.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So that's an improvement.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But no, I mean, it's good because you have the entire catalog of not only currently airing shows, but
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Their whole like every HBO owned production.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So, for instance, you don't have the Larry Sanders show because that was done by Sony, but everything from Oz, which was in 1997, basically onward, every original series is on there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So, you know, Oz, The Wire, Sex and the City, The Sopranos.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Big Love, you know, obviously Game of Thrones, Girls, Veep.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, everything is there, as well as a lot of their documentaries, as well as whatever first run movies they've got for that month and then whatever catalog titles they happen to have.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And no, I mean, it's comedy specials.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like I found an old comedy special from from Kathy Griffin from like 1995 or 1996 that I probably hadn't seen since 1996.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And, uh, no, I mean, it's, it's interesting just the amount of content that's there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's, it's really nice.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And so it's, I mean, basically everything you would get in HBO go, but without having to have the cable subscription.
Casey:
Excellent.
Casey:
All right.
Casey:
Any other followup?
Casey:
Cause we might've made record time through this and I'm pretty smug about that right now.
Marco:
Oh, John's going to be so mad.
Casey:
He's going to kill us.
Casey:
This is great.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
Oh, he's God.
Casey:
He's going to get so mad.
Casey:
Listeners are going to get so mad.
Casey:
And the sad thing is they're going to blame you, even though this is really my fault.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No,
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
they can blame me blame blame film girl that's fine hashtag blame film girl um no but it is interesting i am with you guys nobody really knows how the the step things are updated what's interesting to me marco you're talking about how you had to like get your green circle so i've been reviewing the pebble time the the new pebble smartwatch and so i had to take off my apple watch for a couple of days and the thing i've missed the most to be totally honest has been like my green circles
Marco:
That's surprising.
Marco:
Are you using it with an iPhone or Android?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
iPhone.
Marco:
Are you allowed to say, like, how is it?
Marco:
Or do you want to save it for your show?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, no, no, no.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I can't.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, my review went live today.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, I mean, I like it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's an interesting product because, you know...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I feel like they had a real head start for a long time, but obviously the market has changed.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Is it as nice as an Apple Watch?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Obviously not.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Even looking at it, it looks like a sports watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Having said that, I spent almost $800 with tax and everything on my Apple Watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because I spent that much money on the stainless steel with the classic leather buckle, I don't really feel comfortable running or working out with it, if I'm being completely honest.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I just, I mean, that's just too much money for me to have my wrist to want to get scratched up.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Maybe other people feel differently, but for me, it doesn't exactly feel like a great sports device for me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Whereas the Pebble is $200, you know, it's plastic and has an e-paper display and is waterproof and has a really good battery life.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And so that's the sort of thing that like if I was going out running or working out or whatever, I'd be like, hey, if something happens to this, no big deal.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, it basically has taken everything that was good about the Pebble and they've improved upon it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
problem is that for $200 like I gave it we have this thing Mashable Choice which is like a good housekeeping seal of approval or whatever and I gave it the Mashable Choice and that doesn't mean that I think it's better than the Apple Watch because that's not what this means it just means would you recommend this to someone and under the right circumstances I totally would I mean it's a $200 watch that does a really good job doing what it does and it actually works fairly well with iOS although it works better with Android but the hard thing is it
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
When I say, would you buy this over the Apple Watch or would you say, don't buy the Apple Watch?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Even though my Apple Watch was almost four times the cost, it's hard for me to kind of compare them because they are different devices.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I feel like at a $350 watch versus $200, I'd still give the edge to the Apple Watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And that's going to be a different experience and obviously have a different ecosystem.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But for the current product, if you're somebody who doesn't care about the looks and you're not as invested in the Apple ecosystem, I think it's certainly a ton better than Android Wear, like light years ahead of Android Wear, even though it's not as flashy or shiny.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And it does a lot of the same things that...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
you can do now on an Apple Watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Now, will that change once WWDC rolls around and kind of next wave of apps and things like that happen?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That could change the conversation.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I certainly worry about the company's longevity going forward.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But it's not a bad product.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And especially for a sports watch, which is why I backed it on Kickstarter.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
A, I like to back the little guys.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
B, this is going to be something that I use when I ride my bike or I go running.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I don't want to, you know, scratch up the chrome on the stainless steel, you know, Apple Watch.
Marco:
See that, I think that's an interesting point to go into a little bit.
Marco:
Like, is there kind of a problem that Apple made the steel watch too nice?
Marco:
Like to me, like I decided because I have the same one as you except 42 because you have 38, right?
Marco:
Yes.
Marco:
But yeah, so I have the stainless steel 42 with the classic buckle and I love it.
Marco:
Do you have, you don't have the modern buckle yet, do you?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, because they're not shipping.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And that was why I had to cancel my modern buckle order.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, I didn't cancel it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I placed a second order and then canceled my modern buckle order after I got my second order.
Marco:
Yeah, TIFF's modern buckle is scheduled, the whole modern buckle watch is scheduled to be here June 4th through 11th.
Marco:
I haven't heard of any times earlier than that for that model.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, that's really I didn't even have any date.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I just saw June and I had so much I had serious like FOMO.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's fear of missing out for the audience.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I had such serious FOMO about not having the Apple Watch that I placed.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was like eight days after it had started shipping and I placed the second order and I placed the order on a Saturday and I got my watch on a Tuesday.
Casey:
That's insane.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I was like, OK, you know what?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
worth it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because those 11 days without that Apple Watch, you guys, I was like, I mean, it was bad.
Marco:
Because you live on the internet.
Marco:
I mean, come on.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I do.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's like for me, of all people, my nickname is C-Mac, for Christ's sake.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, for me not to have the latest Apple product, I really did.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was terrible.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So June 4th through 11th, is that what they said?
Marco:
Yeah, yeah, for Tiff's, yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Cool.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So, yeah, I mean, she'll be one of the first people that I've seen that has it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You can't even order it by itself right now.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It still says unavailable.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I will get the modern buckle as soon as it ships separately.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'll spend the $250 and get the pink band.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But, yeah.
Yeah.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
So fracture prints are great.
Marco:
We have them sponsor a lot.
Marco:
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Marco:
They really, my office is full of fracture prints.
Marco:
We keep getting more fracture prints.
Marco:
People come over, they compliment the fracture prints.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
And it comes with everything you need right in the box.
Marco:
It comes with a little screw to mount in the wall.
Marco:
Or you can, like I just use those little triangle hook things that you get in hardware stores.
Marco:
I just use those to hang them up because they're a little bit shallower and make a small hole.
Marco:
And these things are nice and lightweight.
Marco:
So you don't need like some giant anchor to hold it in the wall like you do like a big picture or a big piece of art.
Marco:
It's nice and lightweight because it's a nice thin piece of glass and they print the photo right on the glass and it's printed on the backside and it shines through.
Marco:
So it looks like it's on the surface, but it has this nice glossy finish on it.
Marco:
And it is, I can't tell you how good these things look.
Marco:
It's almost like having a screen on the wall that's just always looking perfect.
Marco:
Like it looks so good.
Marco:
And everybody compliments these things when they come over to my house.
Marco:
Everyone sees these and they, oh, is that the fracture?
Marco:
Or if they don't know, they say, oh, what's that?
Marco:
uh they are great people are always very impressed and they make great gifts if you want to send a gift to somebody if you want to get a get a photo printed for your family or whoever and send it to them father's day is coming up yeah father's day is coming up you can get a photo printed you know of or for your father or grandfather send it to them whatever it these are so great they make such great gifts they make such great decorations in your house and they are extremely extremely affordably priced
Marco:
So prices start at just $15 for a 5-inch by 5-inch square.
Marco:
They have all sorts of squares.
Marco:
They have all sorts of rectangles.
Marco:
The prices are so reasonable.
Marco:
I think... I forget what I paid for my big ones.
Marco:
I think it was like $30.
Marco:
I mean, they're so affordable.
Marco:
And they're so good.
Marco:
I even... I bought some even when we didn't even have an active coupon code.
Marco:
I bought some at full price myself just because they're just that good.
Marco:
But you don't have to do that.
Marco:
You can use coupon code ATP15 to get 15% off your first order.
Marco:
I really cannot say enough good things about fracture prints.
Marco:
I would say compared to a custom frame job, I have some custom frame things in my office too.
Marco:
And custom framing is very expensive.
Marco:
The result is very big and heavy.
Marco:
And it kind of looks a little bit dated sometimes.
Marco:
It can be done well, but it kind of looks a little bit dated.
Marco:
Fracture prints are way more affordable.
Marco:
And they look a lot better for the most part.
Marco:
And they're just so clean and modern.
Marco:
And you don't need to frame them.
Marco:
They serve their own self-enclosed purpose.
Marco:
They are just so good.
Marco:
I cannot say enough good things about Fracture.
Marco:
Go to FractureMe.com.
Marco:
Use coupon code ATP15 for 15% off your first order.
Marco:
Thank you very much to Fracture for sponsoring our show once again.
Casey:
Yep.
Casey:
Fractures are really, really wonderful.
Casey:
The comment you made about it looking like a screen on the wall, had I not seen and actually owned a handful of fractures, I would have thought you were crazy.
Casey:
But no, really, it really does look kind of like that.
Casey:
It's really fantastic.
Casey:
So definitely check it out.
Casey:
Big news today.
Casey:
And I mean that non-sarcastically.
Casey:
Well, I think I mean that non-sarcastically.
Casey:
The native Apple Watch SDK, which we all knew was coming eventually, apparently is coming like soon, like apparently WWDC time.
Casey:
So, I think, Marco, you're probably most well-equipped to kind of kick this off.
Casey:
How does that make you feel?
Casey:
What do you think about that?
Casey:
Does that change anything?
Casey:
Did you cry happy tears?
Casey:
What's going on?
Marco:
So, I'm really happy about it, first of all.
Marco:
I mean, whether or not I want to use it immediately is a different story.
Marco:
We'll see when it comes out.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
I'm extremely happy and pleasantly surprised.
Marco:
I was assuming, and I've said this a number of times, I've been assuming that it would come in November and that we would be able to run the apps we create with it maybe next spring with the launch of Watch 2 or whatever.
Marco:
And so this is a good few months earlier than what I was expecting.
Marco:
And I'm just happy.
Marco:
I'm happy.
Marco:
We don't know anything about it yet.
Marco:
All we know is that today on, I think it was on stage, right?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, it was at the Code Conference.
Marco:
Yes.
Marco:
So it was Jeff Williams, right?
Marco:
It was.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
So Jeff Williams, the current Apple COO, was giving an interview and he said that there would be a native SDK at WBDC this year.
Marco:
So being announced in, what, 10 days, two weeks, whatever.
Marco:
So really soon.
Marco:
So this is potentially really great.
Marco:
There are so many questions.
Marco:
I'm writing a blog post.
Marco:
I'm still drafting it of my giant list of questions about things I'm curious about with the SDK.
Marco:
Some of the simple things like, how much storage space do apps have to use?
Marco:
Stuff like that.
Marco:
But if you actually think about the reality of having native code access on the watch...
Marco:
There really are quite a lot of questions that come up as a result of that.
Marco:
Just simple things like, okay, you have the app on the watch.
Marco:
You have the app on the phone.
Marco:
How do they communicate?
Marco:
Can they share data?
Marco:
Can they sync?
Marco:
What happens when the watch is away from the phone and then it comes back?
Marco:
Does it then have to sync the data manually?
Marco:
There are so many little gotchas like that.
Marco:
What kind of restrictions will there be on backgrounding?
Marco:
As we know from the iPhone...
Marco:
So backgrounding and multiprocessing and background network fetches, background refresh, all these things that we take for granted now on the iPhone, I'm betting we get almost none of that on the watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I mean, for battery alone, I would think that that would kind of put the kibosh on a lot of that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
What I think would be interesting, and we'll obviously have to wait another 10 days to see, going back to the Pebble a little bit, one of the interesting things that they've done with their model, and their code execution model is very, very different and much more limited than it is on the iPhone, but they have a thing where you can basically have –
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Your JavaScript app's like fully executed on the watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So there's some apps like the Foursquare, excuse me, the Swarm app that live there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then there's some apps that actually talk to a companion app on your phone, which is similar to what the Apple Watch does now.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I think it'll be interesting to see if they...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because Pebble has had to deal with some of those same constraints, granted, at a much lower scale and with much higher memory constraints.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I think it will be interesting to see how Apple's philosophy differs from what other people have done, from what other platforms have done, and maybe what they've learned from how those things have worked or haven't worked.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
Because, I mean, this is such an interesting question to start asking.
Marco:
What will this be?
Marco:
And we'll know in two weeks.
Marco:
At least we'll know a lot of it.
Marco:
But there's also going to be, I think, a political policy angle here, which is every time Apple releases a new platform or enables new...
Marco:
makes your new functionality, it gives them an opportunity to enforce and shape things to fit their political goals.
Marco:
So for example, maybe watch apps will be required to be written in Swift for no technical reason, just as a requirement to promote Swift adoption.
Marco:
Maybe certain things... I guarantee you that certain things that are allowed today in iPhone apps won't be allowed in watch apps.
Marco:
And we don't know what those things are yet, but I'm sure there's a list, right?
Marco:
And so it's going to be interesting.
Marco:
It's going to be possibly a little bit bumpy as we get this going, but...
Marco:
I think it's going to be really interesting, and I'm just really curious to see.
Marco:
I mean, just basic stuff.
Marco:
The iPhone has... There's so much API available on the iPhone.
Marco:
There are so many libraries and functions and interface widgets.
Marco:
I mean, do we think it even runs UIKit?
Marco:
I'm guessing it has its own simplified thing.
Marco:
All we know is what WatchKit gives us, but WatchKit is really this kind of... I'm guessing WatchKit...
Marco:
in a little, like, separate sandbox it gives us to play in.
Marco:
I'm guessing that has very little to do with the native API.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, one of the things I've been thinking about, which I think is a kind of ridiculous idea, but an interesting thought exercise, if nothing else, is what if Apple, by way of app review, and you kind of touched on this, Marco, with your political stuff earlier, what if Apple, by way of app review, basically says, well...
Casey:
you don't really need to go native for this.
Casey:
So we're going to reject this.
Casey:
Go back to the WatchKit APIs that you have today.
Casey:
And, you know, so for things like Overcast, which this is probably a crummy example, but, you know, Overcast may not absolutely need a native API.
Casey:
So you know what?
Casey:
We're battery life is important to us.
Casey:
Marco, I'm sorry, you're just gonna have to stick to the, you know, remote view controller, whatever it is that that that you have today, we're not going to allow you to use the native API's.
Casey:
Because we just don't think you're worthy.
Casey:
I doubt they do that.
Casey:
But it's certainly something that they could do if they so desired.
Marco:
Oh, totally.
Marco:
Right now, all we know is that they said there's going to be a native SDK.
Marco:
And he mentioned that games would be possible and sensor access would be possible.
Marco:
So that's great.
Marco:
But my app requires continuous audio playback even when it is not showing on screen.
Marco:
On the iPhones, that's allowed.
Marco:
Will it be allowed on the watch?
Marco:
We don't know.
Marco:
I don't even know.
Marco:
Will it even have AV foundation and core audio?
Marco:
Will the watch expose APIs that can play sound to the third-party SDK?
Marco:
And we have absolutely no idea.
Marco:
So there's so many big questions here, right?
Marco:
So many big questions.
Marco:
And we won't know, really, until next week.
Marco:
We have no idea.
Casey:
I'm really curious to see where this goes.
Casey:
I'm wondering how much they allow.
Casey:
As an example, let's suppose that there is no mechanism, Marco, that you can see wherein you could actually put podcasts onto the watch and play them directly off the watch.
Casey:
You're limited to
Casey:
The same kind of situation you have today where the phone is the thing actually doing playback.
Casey:
Do you think just sitting here now not really knowing anything, do you suspect that you would still reach for a native API and SDK just on account of speed?
Casey:
Or was it actually not that interesting to you if you can't get files onto the device?
Marco:
It is certainly interesting either way because no matter what, I'm sure a native app would be faster to launch, more responsive.
Marco:
There are even just a lot of little annoying limitations about what you can do in the UI with WatchKit.
Marco:
It would be nice to have more control over that and to have more abilities of things you can do because WatchKit is very limited.
Marco:
But...
Marco:
If I can't actually get the files over there and play them without a phone present, which is what most people are asking me for.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's what they want because you can put music on the – you can put certain data on the watch, obviously.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And they want to be able to say, hey, I want to be able to listen to my podcast and use Overcast so I can have my smart speed settings to go through it or whatever.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
I mean, and we know from the process of putting the music onto it that it kind of sucks.
Marco:
Like, it's kind of slow and clunky and manual.
Marco:
And so, right now, I have no knowledge of whether or not it is...
Marco:
And whether it will suck or not.
Marco:
I have no information on any of those things.
Marco:
So I can't say right now whether I'm going to make an app.
Marco:
And then, of course, secondarily, there's a question of whether it's worth it.
Marco:
Because there's going to be a lot of complexity.
Marco:
What I'm really curious about is just the realities of syncing data between the two apps, between the watch app and the phone app.
Marco:
We'll see in reality what that entails.
Marco:
But that's a big question mark.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, that's a really good point because that's going to be slow already over Bluetooth.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And obviously, what's your latency on that?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And how long does it look for a device so that it can keep things in sync?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
How often does it pull for that sort of thing?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, you're right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I think that...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Do you think it's possible that maybe we could see kind of a world of hybrid apps where you have parts of it that are the companion apps, the glances, the sorts of things we have now, but there are other parts that are natively existing on the watch itself so that you can do things like load faster and pull in maybe custom UI beds or load in other sorts of code and execute natively on the watch while still maybe the data that it's using is still being pulled from the phone app itself?
Marco:
That's a good question.
Marco:
I mean, yeah, we don't know yet.
Marco:
I mean, you know, there's part of your question, which is like, can part of your watch presence be WatchKit and can part of it be native?
Marco:
And I'm guessing the answer to that is no, but, you know, just for simplicity's sake and the loaders and stuff.
Marco:
But I don't know that.
Marco:
I'm also curious, though, you know, you mentioned glances.
Marco:
Like, right now, glances are very limited in third-party apps because we can't have any controls on them.
Marco:
The entire glance just acts as one giant button to launch the app.
Marco:
I would greatly benefit from a glance that could have buttons on it.
Marco:
Right now, my glance is moderately useful, but it would be a lot more useful if I could have seek and pause buttons on it the way that the built-in now playing glance does.
Marco:
That would be extremely helpful to me.
Marco:
And right now, I can't do that.
Marco:
So that's worth noting.
Marco:
I'm also curious about...
Marco:
weather will have access to third-party complications that so complications on the watch faces that would be extremely interesting and and very very compelling to me uh i i might even try making different kinds of apps uh that aren't overcast because i don't really there's not really much reason to have overcast in a complication except maybe to have play controls but that seems i don't think that would be possible or good
Marco:
no and i think on a 38 i mean on the 42 it might look okay but on a 38 millimeter screen especially it's going to be like no don't don't don't even bother exactly so i'm not expecting that but but you know if if we could have third party complications for other kinds of apps like i would love uh weatherline my favorite weather app i would love weatherline to be able to be a complication and have like a little line like on the on the bottom that bottom skinny slot on the uh what is it the utility face yeah the utility face
Marco:
I would also... And so if we have third-party complications for other kinds of apps that aren't Overcast, and then you have buttons and glances for things like Overcast, I think that goes a very long way.
Marco:
And I really, really hope we get something like that.
Marco:
And we might not get it in version 1.
Marco:
I don't necessarily expect to, but we'll see.
Marco:
I really hope we do, and I think that could be huge.
Marco:
That being said, I'm still overall very excited about what the native SDK will get us.
Marco:
I don't know yet if Overcast will be able to have a native app that is possible and allowed and doesn't suck in version one of the SDK, but I'm really glad that there's a chance.
Casey:
You know, I was thinking that what if you what if I just lived in Overcast, which actually is kind of true, but Overcast is my jam.
Casey:
That's really the only thing I listen to on my computer, on my phone and potentially on my watch.
Casey:
I could see a complication for just remaining time in the in the podcast that's currently playing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Ooh, that's actually – that's a good idea.
Casey:
Yeah, I think that would be useful if Overcast is the sort of thing that basically if I'm doing anything entertainment-related, I'm using Overcast.
Casey:
So even something simple like that could be helpful.
Casey:
And I am one of many that wrote posts about how I think third-party complications would be a really awesome idea.
Casey:
And I don't even know where –
Casey:
It would go, but just the thought of being able to support that sort of thing sounds really awesome to me.
Casey:
I mean, I had some examples on this post, which we'll put in the show notes.
Casey:
You know, you could have something very simple from E-Trade showing you how well or poorly your portfolio is doing, or maybe just what your next...
Casey:
What itinerary item is from TripIt?
Casey:
Or, I don't know, what if you had a Tesla, Marco, and wanted to know your battery status or whatever the case may be?
Casey:
Or what's the next delivery arriving at your house, which for most of us is an Apple Watch in three months?
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
Yeah, all sorts of different things.
Casey:
Sports scores.
Casey:
Any one of these things could be a reasonably good complication.
Casey:
And yeah, Marco, I don't know if there's any terribly awesome ideas for Overcast, but I could see all sorts of really nifty things you could do with complications.
Casey:
And I'm skeptical that'll be part of the API for now.
Casey:
But I do think that it would be really awesome if they existed.
Casey:
Christina, you have any thoughts on that?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I think I would love to see more complications.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think that would be great, especially if Apple can kind of enforce their own UI guidelines.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think that would be tremendous.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And really, to me, I think that would be much better than allowing people to submit their own app bases because that's just going to become a show the way that third-party keyboards have kind of become a UI show.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I feel like keep it clean, but having complications would be really great.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But just on the fact that there is going to be this preview of an SDK, I'm just excited about that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like you, Marco, mostly because as an end user, I feel like this is the first time we'll really get a chance to see what people can do with this device.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because we've been kind of hampered a little bit by it just being kind of
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
you know, the companion app aspect, the fact that you're having to go through the phone.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I'm really looking forward to, even if it's not a ton of power, even if it's not everything, the fact that the developers will be able to build things and execute directly on the watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because I've said this before, I mean, I feel like whether the Apple Watch ultimately ends up being a success or a failure is going to live and die based on what apps do.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
are out for it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think the app experience is going to be key.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And we haven't at least I enjoy some of the apps on the Apple Watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I really like my Apple Watch.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I haven't had other than maybe mapping stuff, I haven't had that kind of killer app yet.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I feel like this will be the thing that will help push that sort of thing forward.
Marco:
Oh, definitely.
Marco:
Right now, it feels like the watch is a really good watch with fun stuff on the face, the complications that it has.
Marco:
It's a really good, nice watch.
Marco:
I don't view it as an app platform for much use just because the apps on it aren't that great, and I use very few of them as a result.
Marco:
It's still a great product to me because I like the rest of what it does.
Marco:
I love just the timekeeping aspect.
Marco:
I love the faces.
Marco:
I love the complications.
Marco:
I love having the weather on my watch.
Marco:
I love the activity tracking, having all these easy access to timers and stuff.
Marco:
I love the features it already has with no apps installed at all.
Marco:
But it sure would be nice to see, does the idea of getting faster, better, more capable apps, does that affect things?
Marco:
And it might not.
Marco:
It might end up that dealing with a watch on your wrist is so...
Marco:
It's kind of clunky and limited.
Marco:
It might end up that most people just prefer to pull their phone out of their pocket to do any kind of complex app interaction.
Marco:
But we don't know that yet because right now apps on the watch really haven't had a fair chance because WatchKit is so limited and slow.
Casey:
Yeah, I agree.
Casey:
The only thing that I kind of dread about the pending native apps on the watch is you know that we're just going to get swarmed with a bunch of crappy games that nobody really wants to play.
Casey:
And I'm not looking forward to that.
Casey:
But everything else sounds really exciting.
Casey:
And I'm really curious to see how it goes.
Casey:
Now, Jeff Williams did say, if I'm not mistaken, explicitly that it's a preview that's coming next.
Casey:
What is it?
Casey:
Week after next.
Casey:
When do you think, guys, and I'll start with Christina, if you were to just, you know, have a guess.
Casey:
When do you think the first native watch apps from third parties will be available in the store?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I would say fall.
Yeah.
Marco:
Yeah, I think I agree.
Marco:
I mean, it would follow the iOS beta timeline if they did that?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Exactly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And whenever the final Xcode is out, yeah, I would think that it's probably going to be part of iOS 9 and probably whatever the next watchOS update is, 1.5 or whatever they call it, will add support for native apps.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I figure they'll preview it next week or a week after next, and then they will have it rolled out in October-ish.
Casey:
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
Casey:
Maybe that was said, the chat room is saying maybe they said that, so I missed it if so.
Casey:
But I think that makes the most sense to me for sure.
Casey:
Any other thoughts on native watch apps before we move on?
Marco:
I do worry about battery life long term.
Marco:
Like, right now, the watch battery life is great.
Marco:
Like, well, Christina, what do you think?
Marco:
38 is significantly worse.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I mean, it's been good for me, provided I don't have too many apps installed.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And that was sort of the thing that I had to get used to.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It was like just install the ones I like and that I use.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I have Overcast, I have Twitterific, and I have Uber, and there are a couple of others that I have.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't have a ton of glances installed, just the ones that I really use, you know, 1Password and a couple of other things.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But no, I've actually been really impressed with battery life.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I feel like it could go both ways.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like on the one hand, it could immediately tax the battery more.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
On the other hand, it's possible that it might be more efficient.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Potentially, I don't know if it doesn't have to pull and send stuff back and forth over Bluetooth all the time.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's a good point.
Marco:
point i hadn't thought about that but yeah i guess it depends a lot on like whether apps will be able to do things like background refresh and things which i'm guessing the answer is no but that that will have a lot to do with it i'm sure yeah i'm very curious to see what the limits are on that because you know background uh processing on the iphone if you're doing kind of traditional stuff that's still limited to 10 minutes is that correct um on the iphone it's even shorter than that now
Marco:
They change it.
Marco:
They threatened to change it.
Marco:
I think in iOS 7, they threatened to make it so that you could get little time slices, but they wouldn't be contiguous.
Marco:
That caused so many bugs during the betas.
Marco:
I think it was either 7 or 8.
Marco:
It caused so many bugs and was such a pain that they gave you back your contiguous block.
Marco:
But now instead of 10 minutes, I think it's like 4 minutes or 2.
Marco:
That time keeps going down.
Marco:
So I'm guessing on the watch, you're not going to be running for 10 minutes in the background.
Marco:
There's just no chance.
Casey:
Well, right.
Casey:
That's what I was driving at is I wonder if the limit is 30 seconds or maybe even 15 seconds, whatever it may be.
Casey:
Right.
Casey:
I'm very curious to see what they do to kind of handcuff developers and prevent them from doing stupid stuff.
Casey:
So really quickly before we talk about another thing that's awesome, I wanted to ask you guys, I am not really into glances like I think a lot of other people are.
Casey:
And Christina, you made mention of this a second ago.
Casey:
I'm looking at my watch right now and I have the, I think it's a settings glance where you can do like airplane mode and all that.
Casey:
Um, I have the battery glance, which I'm trying to convince myself to remove because I've not yet once hit power reserve, but I don't know.
Casey:
It's still kind of weirds me out that I don't know of any other way to easily look at the battery without adding a complication.
Casey:
Um, like I wish it was in settings or something.
Casey:
So if I really, really wanted to know, I could figure it out without having to add the glance.
Casey:
But anyway, um, I have trip it, which I am only keeping on there for the
Casey:
I have dark sky.
Casey:
I have the heart rate in case I want to try to convince it that I'm exercising even when I'm not.
Casey:
What does that mean?
Casey:
Well, like if I feel like I've run up and down stairs 15 times, my heart is pumping, then I can flip over to the heart rate glance and it'll measure my heart rate or I can tell it to measure my heart rate.
Casey:
Maybe I'll get a minute of credit.
Casey:
And then my final glance, which was added earlier today, was the WWDC app.
Casey:
But that's it.
Casey:
That's all I have.
Casey:
So let me start again with Christina.
Casey:
What do you have on there?
Casey:
You kind of quickly ran them off, but it blew right by me before I had a chance to add it up in my head.
Casey:
What do you have on there?
Casey:
And are you looking to add or remove any?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so I try to keep it as minimal as possible.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, I got rid of stocks.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I got rid of a bunch of them that I just kind of wasn't really using.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I have one for the subway from a city mapper.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have city mapper on and that's actually a pretty good watch app.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have to say they've done a really nice job with it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I have city mapper, the battery and the heart rate.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have I've overcast.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have trip it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But but again, that's just mostly for traveling stuff.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't have it up all the time.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Oh, I have one password.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Oh, I have Authy.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have Authy.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Sorry, Authy, my two-factor authentication thing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know one password will do that, but Authy is just easier to just have the things that I have the two-factor for.
Marco:
Yeah, I just try to keep mine simple.
Marco:
I mean, I have the built-in settings now playing, activity, the battery, which I turned off, but it somehow got turned back on.
Marco:
I got to look into that.
Marco:
And overcast, and that's it.
Marco:
So the only third-party one I have is overcast.
Marco:
Interesting.
Marco:
To me, the glances are like OS X Mac dashboard widgets.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Totally.
Marco:
They sit around there not updating themselves until you go to them and then they're showing old data and then you have to wait for it to spin and update itself.
Marco:
It's kind of a crappy experience if you actually want to just glance at something because it's not loaded yet.
Marco:
So you have to go see the old stuff and wait.
Marco:
And that's not great.
Marco:
So I don't really care to have more of those than necessary.
Marco:
I also think, you know, but when you're swiping through, it's just like a side-by-side card swiping interaction.
Marco:
And so you can't have a very long list there without it being a little bit unwieldy to navigate through.
Marco:
Right.
Casey:
Yeah, I agree.
Casey:
I feel like it was Federico Vatici, although I may have that wrong, that had said that he had a bunch of glances, like 10 or 15 glances or something like that.
Casey:
And whoever it was, maybe it wasn't Federico, I thought to myself, really?
Casey:
Because I have a fair number of third-party apps on my watch, although I don't use very many, Overcast being one that I use a lot as an example.
Casey:
But I personally don't care for most glances.
Casey:
And not to be corny, but the only time I really want to have a glance is if it's something that I want to just glance at, like Trip It, like What's Coming Next at WWDC.
Casey:
I like my battery life if I can ever convince myself to remove it.
Casey:
But things like that where I'm just going to look for a second and then I'm going to move on.
Casey:
And then I'm going to use an app for something like Overcast where I'm going to be going in and out of it.
Casey:
Or maybe I want it up for a while because I'm going to be fiddling with it a lot.
Casey:
And glances just don't really cut it for me.
Casey:
And so I was just curious.
Casey:
And it sounds like we're all kind of of the same mind in this one.
Marco:
Well, and also for that kind of quick glancing and quick launching, complications are better in every way for those things.
Marco:
So I love having the complications on the face that let me remove a glance and that let me not ever have to go to the home screen, which I hate, to find the app and do something there.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
I love having the complications there.
Marco:
And so, I don't know.
Marco:
I'm curious also to just see, like, as the watch software gets updated by Apple, do we get more watch faces?
Marco:
You know, how often do we get a new watch face?
Marco:
Do we get new complications from Apple being added?
Marco:
Or do some of the existing watch faces that don't have complications, which is a lot of them, do those gain complications?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Did they get updated?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
You know, there's so many questions that,
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Do we get a Burberry watch face?
Marco:
Yeah, like I'm just as excited, you know, because the watch for me is like, you know, half the value or more is the built in stuff.
Marco:
I'm also just excited to see what software updates bring to the watch from Apple.
Casey:
I'm curious to see how it goes.
Casey:
We should talk about something else that's awesome.
Casey:
Marco, take it away.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
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Marco:
This is their script.
Marco:
It's right, though.
Marco:
I read over this, and I'm like, yeah, this is all true, so I'm just going to say it.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
mail routes team of email nerds are just sitting around thinking about ways to eliminate spam and viruses that you don't have to worry about it with your mail server so i actually use mail route and and i've been using it for a while now at least six months i think a long time now and so i i very loudly don't use gmail and you use fast mail right
Marco:
Yeah, exactly.
Marco:
And I've used Fastmail for years.
Marco:
And one of the most common things I've heard for years from people who are on Gmail or people who have left Gmail is that Gmail has the best spam filtering and that they can't or won't leave Gmail and go to something like Fastmail because the spam filtering isn't as good at Fastmail.
Marco:
I can honestly say, having used FastMail for years without MailRoute first, FastMail spam filtering is good, but not great.
Marco:
Ever since I put MailRoute in front of it, it has been great.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
I have almost no false positives and almost no spam gets through.
Marco:
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Marco:
For a long time, I just thought, everyone's probably just running spam assassin.
Marco:
What could they possibly be doing that's different?
Marco:
And I don't know what they're doing, but it is different and it is better.
Marco:
And it just works.
Marco:
And they have a great feature, too, where they will email you if you want.
Marco:
They'll email you a quarantine notification.
Marco:
Every so often, they'll email you saying, these messages are in your quarantine box, which you don't see in your mailbox.
Marco:
You can go to their site to see it if you want to.
Marco:
And this is like messages that they think are probably spam, but they're not quite sure about it.
Marco:
So they'll give you this list.
Marco:
And then you can, next to each one, there's just a little link that you can tab from any mail client, phone, desktop, whatever, just a little link.
Marco:
So it'll list these messages that are in here and a little link that says, redeliver, whitelist, whatever.
Marco:
Or you can, and if you ignore it, they just get deleted automatically after a certain number of days.
Marco:
So it's great.
Marco:
So I've had a couple of things that were caught in there that I just hit, I hit whitelist on them once.
Marco:
And it was never a problem again.
Marco:
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Marco:
If you get FastMail and put MailRoute in front of it, I think you get the best of everything.
Marco:
I think you get a nice standalone email service that is not owned by Google or anybody else, that is a standard IMAP server, and you're paying for it.
Marco:
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Marco:
You're not looking through your mail for advertising or anything.
Marco:
and it is it's a standard so you know if fast mail starts to suck you can go to a different imap poster you can host your own so whatever the case is whether you use something like fast mail whether you host your own server for yourself or for your business put mail route in front of it i cannot possibly tell you enough how good it is i i use very little myself like
Marco:
I was skeptical.
Marco:
When I first heard about them years ago, I didn't try it at first.
Marco:
I thought, you know, I could probably get away with just making my spam filters tighter on Fastmail.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Casey:
All right.
Casey:
So other big news in the last week.
Casey:
On, what was it, Monday, Apple announced that Johnny Ive is promo-retired, retire-moded.
Casey:
What do we think about that?
Casey:
So the quick recap is they've said that Johnny Ive has been promoted to chief design officer.
Casey:
Is that correct?
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yes.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
A newly created position.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Newly created position.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So he's now in the C-suite and day to day managerial duties have been passed off to two lieutenants.
Casey:
Right.
Casey:
And this was all reported by the actor slash humongous geek slash all around awesome person Stephen Fry.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Slash Johnny Ives BFF, who was mentioned, I think, thrice in the Amazing New Yorker profile.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Maybe he was only mentioned twice.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think that the Chris Martin from Coldplay was mentioned three times.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Either way, that was one of the things that I learned reading that amazing profile was how many famous friends Johnny Ives has.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
So in the Telegraph, which is a British news publication, Stephen Fry wrote this article about how Johnny has been promoted to chief design officer.
Casey:
Like you said, Christina, his couple of lieutenants are going to manage the day to day stuff.
Casey:
And among other things, at some point or another, they mentioned that this will allow him more time to travel.
Casey:
So there's a few conflicting thoughts on this.
Casey:
And Rene Ritchie actually had a tweet, which I don't have in front of me, but really, really, really well summarized what the different ideas are.
Casey:
I think he said that the analysts were of the opinion that this was all to dodge having to reveal how much Johnny makes.
Casey:
And what were the other two things he said to either of you guys remember?
Casey:
Yeah.
Marco:
Yeah, I think this was Rene, right?
Casey:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marco:
Yeah, so it was like, you know, analyst, this is too high, but he makes.
Marco:
Optimist, this is like, you know, great because it's a promotion or whatever.
Marco:
And then pessimist, he's quitting.
Marco:
Something like that.
Casey:
Yeah, yeah.
Casey:
Something along those lines.
Casey:
We'll find the tweet and put it in the show notes after the fact.
Casey:
But, you know, those are the three kind of extreme summaries, extremely brief summaries.
Casey:
But I don't know, Marco, how did you feel about this?
Casey:
What was your first reaction when you read this news?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
um a little first of all a little little intrigued about how they how they announced this in this in this article yes and how they buried it can we talk about how they buried this they did this like the the like early afternoon on a monday on a holiday so the market is closed but also like all the beat reporters are like half drunk because nobody's working do we know about this from experience christina
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I was one of those people who was like, I'm not writing this.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Whoever's got the Memorial Day duty, they can hit this post.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I was like, I'm not stopping for this.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I was like, if Apple's going to bury this like this, I'm certainly not going to stop my festivities to write this news post.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Let someone else do it.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
So yeah, it was weird.
Marco:
I think it was interestingly done.
Marco:
Probably well done, if I think it was well done, as well as it could have been done.
Marco:
Better than a press release, I guess.
Marco:
But you look at this, you read between the lines.
Marco:
When he had that big profile, when was it, last fall in The New Yorker?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, but it was like February?
Marco:
Something like that.
Marco:
That's fall.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
It's a fine fall here in New York in February.
Marco:
So whenever that was, that big profile with him talking about the watch, you really got the impression that he was severely burning out and severely overworked because he does way too much.
Marco:
And it was kind of painful to read at times because you could see the writing on the wall.
Marco:
You could see, like, this guy can't keep doing this.
Marco:
This is unsustainable.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, no.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, just the fact that, you know, he's literally overseeing everything that design touches and having to be involved in all these meetings.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, the fact that he's involved just in, you know, the new campus.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, literally everything.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You're right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, UI, industrial design, you know, hardware.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's too much for any person, no matter how young you are, no matter how much you want to do things.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, there's only so much you can do.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then also still, you know, he has twin sons and a wife and like,
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
you know, you've got to be a person too, especially if you've got as much money as Johnny Ive has.
Marco:
This is probably the only way that Apple could keep him working at all because it was either this or burnout and quitting.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, which would be devastating to the company.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, you know, whether he's...
Marco:
build a big enough team that people could survive without him or not just the fact that such a huge figurehead left and could potentially go someplace else would be absolutely devastating exactly and that's like you know i'm sure this is this is probably a lot like the steve situation where i'm sure he has built up a great team i'm sure there are people that could take over and that that are taking over um
Marco:
So I'm not worried about Apple's future with either a reduced Johnny Live capacity or if he actually does finally leave at some point.
Marco:
I'm not worried about that future of Apple.
Marco:
I think it will be... Like when Steve Jobs left and then passed away, I think it will be different without Johnny.
Marco:
But I think they'll get along fine.
Marco:
It won't be the same.
Marco:
There will be new people.
Marco:
There might be some shakeups here and there.
Marco:
But it'll be...
Marco:
They'll be okay.
Marco:
I hope we get him as long as we can because he seems really good at his job.
Marco:
But when he has to leave the company at some point, I'm not worried for the company's future.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, I'm not either.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I feel like as long as they can, you know, as much time as they can hold out as possible, I think is better for everyone and for no other reason than for perception.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because like you said, I mean, I think the company will be fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It'll be different, but it'll be fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think that they've gone through enough transitions now where they know how not to do, you know, what happened.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
in 85 or 86.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, they know how to manage things.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I also think, you know, to a certain degree, I almost wonder like how much we should read in directly to what they're saying he's going to be doing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, handing off day-to-day managerial duties, I think that's actually probably a good thing for someone in his position.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, let him have the kind of the final say and be
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
the creative infusion of a company.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Let him kind of be the muse.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But let other people deal with the day-to-day bulk because honestly, at his position, I don't know how much of that stuff he should be really responsible for, how much of a micromanager he really needs to be and how much it should just kind of come from his core vision of saying, this is where we want to go.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
These are our goals.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
These are the lines.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
These are...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
you know, our values.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And if there are certain projects he wants to be really involved in, then help design that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But trust the people that he's hired and that he's mentored to do their jobs.
Marco:
Yeah, I think you're right.
Marco:
This does overall feel like he's going from a position of having a lot of work and way too much of it to a position of having less direct involvement.
Marco:
For somebody like Johnny Ive, if anybody has ever worked with an artist before, a creative artist, it is very hard for creative artists to
Marco:
to be managing people all day and to be working in the same place for a very, very long time.
Marco:
That's a very hard thing for most creative people that I've ever known to do.
Marco:
And so if he's going to keep working there, I think he needs both less of the kind of work he doesn't care that much about, like managing things,
Marco:
And also, like, you know, does he really need to be that involved in making the next 15-inch MacBook Pro?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Right.
Marco:
You know, like, making the next iMac?
Marco:
Like, does he care that much?
Marco:
Probably not.
Marco:
Like, do you really need Johnny Ives' genius to say, make the next Airport Extreme thinner?
Marco:
Like, you know, like, there's...
Marco:
It's just like there's there's a lot of things that Apple does that are probably not interesting to him anymore.
Marco:
And that's fine.
Marco:
He's been he's been there a very long time making a bunch of silver thin things.
Marco:
And, you know, he can do other things.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He can do other things.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, it's also, I think, one of those things where he can do maybe the big iteration.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So maybe he's really involved with the design of the MacBook or the MacBook one, as you call it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Or maybe, you know, what they did with the thin, I guess, what is it?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The 2013 Mac iMac.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know where they made it thin and gave it the bump, you know, the hump in the back.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Maybe he's involved in those sorts of decisions, but he's not really – you know, the minor refreshes he's not as involved in.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So maybe he's, you know, setting the tone but not having to be involved in each particular thing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I think you're right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's like he's designed a lot of thin –
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
metal things or plastic, you know, colored things for Apple over the years.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Also, I mean, you know, if they really are going to get into cars, if they're going to get into auto, that's a completely different, that's going to take, need some overseeing in a completely different capacity.
Marco:
um so i don't know you know he he also might need the distance like he might need to be based in the uk primarily and then only occasionally traveling to california just to prevent him from involving himself in too many things like this very much might be like a saving himself from himself kind of thing where it's like right now if you read these profiles of him he he is so intimately involved in every little detail of everything
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, I mean, and that's always the challenge, right?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like when you get promoted to something is how much, whether you succeed or fail, and I've certainly failed in this respect in my past, I've tried to be better about in the future, but giving things up and trusting others to do their job.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's really hard sometimes not to
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
to be able to let go.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I think that the only way he can really let go is if he's not there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So being, you know, in England, being with his family, I think probably works better for him.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Although I still imagine that, you know, these guys are for years going to be getting phone calls in the middle of the night from him about, you know, some idea about a corner or how some, you know, some sort of, you know, uh, you know, um, wedge is, is, uh, some sort of joint is bothering him.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Um,
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I'm sure that's not going to go away.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But yeah, I think you're right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think that it almost it does make sense.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The travel aspect that, yeah, you know, probably does need to have a little bit of distance because if he's, you know, a chauffeured car ride away from the office, it makes it really easy to go into the office all the time.
Marco:
Yeah, I agree.
Marco:
He needs that distance to avoid more burnout and to force him to delegate things like, what is the internal layout of the cable inside the new MacBook that goes to the audio port?
Marco:
Stuff like that.
Marco:
I'm sure he's involved in all of that stuff, external and internal stuff, plus the kind of tables in the retail stores and what the corner shape is on the icons.
Marco:
And not to mention...
Marco:
that he also has recently had the entire software UI placed on him, which he probably, I mean, so when Forstall was kicked out, all of the UI design fell on Johnny as well.
Marco:
Was it Alan Dye who ended up doing most of that, or was it the other guy?
Marco:
No, it wasn't Howarth.
Marco:
Yeah, it was Alan Dye, right?
Marco:
Yeah, so a lot of that fell on him, but that was still under Johnny, and Johnny was still the one who had to make the final call on a lot of these things, I'm sure.
Marco:
That's not a small job.
Marco:
This is not only all the little details of all the hardware and chairs and everything in Apple, but also the entire UI of all of their software.
Marco:
That's insane.
Marco:
That's insane.
Marco:
Honestly, that should never have been placed in the same person.
Marco:
And it wasn't before Forstall's ouster for good reason.
Marco:
So I don't know if the idea of putting all this on Johnny was intended to be temporary until they could build someone else up into the new Forstall.
Marco:
Actually, I don't know that Forstall was in charge of the UI.
Marco:
I should probably stop assuming that.
Marco:
I think he was in charge of iOS.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
Regardless, whether Johnny was intended to keep that long term or not, we don't know.
Marco:
But that is so clearly so different from the hardware that it is good that the software design and hardware design teams are talking to each other and are involved and are generally near each other.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
They don't need to be the same guy.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
Exactly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think they need to have a relationship and talk.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I would actually argue it's probably better if it's not the same person.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because I think they're very different disciplines.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
And I think a lot of the UI missteps we've seen since iOS 7 are because this UI needs to be treated differently than hardware.
Marco:
And in some cases, it wasn't.
Marco:
Basically, I think this changes all for the better.
Marco:
We'll see in time.
Marco:
But I think...
Marco:
Overall, I'm kind of happy, kind of relieved to see that they're changing something because really these profiles of Johnny just made it seem like he was just like seconds away from burning out and leaving.
Casey:
Yeah, I agree.
Casey:
This makes me wonder a couple of things.
Casey:
First...
Casey:
Does this change how Apple perceives remote work?
Casey:
I suspect not.
Casey:
And I know that they have establishments.
Casey:
Didn't they had or have a large group in Vancouver, I believe?
Casey:
They had or have a large group in – was it Pittsburgh?
Casey:
Is that right, Marco?
Marco:
Yeah, I think the iWork team was there for a while.
Marco:
There's also – there's groups in – I think they're forming a group in Seattle now.
Marco:
There's a big group in Austin doing a bunch of store stuff.
Marco:
Like there's –
Marco:
They really have a lot of satellite groups, but usually it's not like one team will be split across the country.
Marco:
They'll silo off certain things that can be easily siloed off, like I work, and have them be in a different spot, stuff like that.
Marco:
But it's not like the main core of OS X is being worked on by people all over the place or anything like that.
Marco:
It's things that can be easily siloed are...
Casey:
Right.
Casey:
And this is me reaching a bit.
Casey:
But, you know, I see all these news reports about how San Francisco has gone from gone from unaffordable to and that combined with Johnny moving, you know, eight hours away.
Casey:
Granted, Johnny is a very unique and special snowflake.
Casey:
And I do not mean that sarcastically.
Casey:
So he gets a buy where other people wouldn't.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He can go anywhere.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He could be in Antarctica and they would make it work.
Casey:
Right.
Casey:
But nevertheless, it makes me wonder, you know, is this going to potentially help open the door to splitting an individual team across multiple geographic locales?
Casey:
I don't know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know a number.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know a couple of people who work on teams where they are remote and the rest of their team is in Cupertino.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But most people, I mean, I think that Apple is one of those companies that would prefer people to work together, especially if you're in the same department.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I would agree with you more if they weren't spending as much as they're spending on their new campus.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's also important to note that, you know, I mean, they're in Cupertino, and as expensive as San Francisco is, you can do okay, you can do more modestly if you're living, you know, deeper in the valley and not in San Francisco proper.
Casey:
Right, right.
Casey:
The other thing I wanted to ask, and I don't know if there's...
Casey:
Yeah, he's really into cars.
Casey:
But do we know what else he's into?
Casey:
And the reason I ask this question is, you know, I'm thinking to myself, well, what else is there for him to design?
Casey:
You know, because at least sitting here now, not as, you know, the big dreamer, I can't think of any consumer electronics, except, of course, the TV that he might want to design.
Casey:
So what's left?
Casey:
I mean, there's the car.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, he's a big fan of music.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Is he?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
A lot of his friends are musicians, you know, Chris Martin, Bono, those guys.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Maybe he designs his own guitar.
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
I was just curious if there was anything that we, you know, we knew that he was, I don't know, hugely into running just for the sake of discussion.
Casey:
And now he wants to go, you know, moonlight with Nike and design a running shoe or whatever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, no, shoot.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, that's actually probably an interesting thing to look at is to see some of the projects he's done with his friend, Mark Newsome, before some of the things that they've auctioned off and some of their special, you know, collaborations.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's probably an interesting thing to look at.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I would assume...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know only what I've read about them, but it's probably the same with at least friends of mine who are artists is that a lot of times their interest is what they want to design or things that are challenging.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You know, so it's not so much their own personal interest as much as it is what's an interesting design problem to solve.
Casey:
Fair enough.
Casey:
All right.
Casey:
Any other thoughts on Johnny?
Marco:
Do you think that his white world will turn into a gray, rainy world when he moves to the UK?
Marco:
Please email Markup.
Marco:
All right.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
regular time machine or clones or anything, that's good.
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You should be doing that as well because it's easy and it's local.
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Casey:
All right.
Casey:
So we got through all the essential news for the week, and we're sort of running out of time.
Casey:
So, Christina, what would you like to talk about today?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, we could talk about Taylor Swift because she's always a favorite topic of mine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I think that the audience might explode.
Casey:
I would love to hear Marco talking about Taylor Swift.
Casey:
So you do you.
Casey:
Who?
Casey:
Shut up, Marco.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Don't even.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Don't even.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm not even I'm not even going to entertain that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm not even going to entertain that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Of course, you know who she is.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Forbes just named her like the most powerful woman in business.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And she is.
Marco:
I know InfoSec Taylor Swift.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I do, too.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm in a group chat on Twitter with InfoSecTaylorSwift.
Casey:
Ooh.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Casey:
Do we know who that is?
Casey:
Well, we don't.
Casey:
Well, we don't, but... Right.
Casey:
I was asking the royal we, do we know who that is?
Casey:
And I'm assuming not.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
We know parts about who the person is, but we don't have like an identity, although I think that it's out there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm not really sure.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, there are lots of rumors.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It is not Neil Rauhauser.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That is not true.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But yeah.
Marco:
Is it Dan Lyons?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It is not Dan Lyons.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It is not Dan Lyons, who I think apparently, this is a weird segue, his episode of Silicon Valley airs on Sunday, which I guess is interesting.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Now, Marco, I know you've seen basically no movies ever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's basically correct, yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Have you managed to see Fight Club, though?
Marco:
Yes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Okay, all right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And Casey, obviously, you see movies.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You're someone plugged into pop culture, so clearly you've seen Fight Club.
Casey:
Well, I'm...
Casey:
I'm marginally more plugged in than Marco, but yes, I would say I am marginally more plugged in.
Casey:
And I have seen Fight Club, although, to be honest, I have not seen it in years.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Okay, well, shame on you, because it's still an amazing movie.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So shame on you, first of all.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Second of all, today, the first issue of the comic book, which is going to serve as the sequel to Fight Club, Fight Club 2, the first issue came out.
Marco:
There's going to be a sequel to Fight Club?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The Chuck Polnitschek, the author, is writing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's debuting as a graphic novel first, you know, comic book form, monthly issues, and then it'll be put into a book.
Marco:
That's crazy.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's very crazy.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I used Dark Horse as the comic, I guess, publisher or whatever that's doing it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I'm going to have to pick up an actual physical copy just because.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I bought the digital copy today and read it on the train ride home, which was lovely.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But it's kind of cool, though, to think about, like, I was thinking about how much tech has changed and how much my life has changed when I saw a fight club in the movie theater when I was 16 in 99.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
On a date with the boy.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He was a man, actually.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He was like six years older than me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Is that legal?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Oh, goodness.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
In Georgia, yeah.
Casey:
This is taking a turn, kids.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, in Georgia it was.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, in Georgia the age of consent is 16.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So, yeah, we were fine.
Oh, God.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
so it's creepy but legal creepy but legal he was older than my sister but it was well here he was no no here's where we were screwed up i told him i was a year older than i was he told me he was a year younger than he was so we both thought we were like lying but like oh it's perfect it was an on again off again dramatic relationship he then broke up with me the final time over voicemail while he owed me 300 because that's a winner folks
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yikes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, it's fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I saw Fight Club in the theater with him, though.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And when I think about like 16 year old me versus like 32 year old me, just how much has changed in the world.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But the core message of the film still resonates.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's really interesting.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I don't know.
Casey:
So is there a way to discuss the premise of Fight Club 2 without spoiling Fight Club 1?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Casey:
And if not, we can just sound the spoiler horn and people can get over it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Honestly, I think we just sound the spoiler horn.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The movie came out in 1999.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, honestly, like, like, like, like Rosebud is the name of a slut.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, I'm sorry.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, there's certain things like whatever.
Marco:
Well, I think the simple threshold is, if I've seen it, it's safe to spoil.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Right, I agree.
Casey:
I was going to say, if Marco has seen it, it's like... Well, if both of us have seen it, I mean, at that point, you have no excuses anymore.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And also, our audience, I've got to think, this is the sort of audience you've seen Fight Club.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's one of those movies.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But the idea is basically that it's 10 years after the events of Fight Club and what's happened, and it's basically Tyler comes back.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Tyler being the narrator's split personality who's...
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
An anarchist.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I just read the first issue because that's all that's out.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But it's good.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's cool.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's interesting that a sequel is happening that's happening in comic book form.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And he's also writing the screenplay for Lullaby, I guess, the adaptations of one of his other books.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And writing the graphic novel really helped him writing the screenplay, adapting to his own work.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because he came into our office last week.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's my way of humble bragging about that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I, of course, fangirled the frack out.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I was such a freaking fangirl.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I couldn't even stand it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I was the only one who asked a fan question.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And he seemed almost relieved because everybody else was asking questions like, oh, what do you think about this?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And more existential writer-y questions.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I was like, what is the deal with the Invisible Monsters movie?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Is it ever going to happen?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He's like, I don't know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And we had a long talk about it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I was like, this is amazing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then I made things very awkward because I forgot my paper books.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So I had him sign using a paint app.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I had him sign a book cover on my iPad.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He was very confused by the whole process.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I've done that before.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
BJ Novak, who was a writer on The Office, he wrote a book of short stories.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And when he came into our office last year, I had him sign my iPad copy that way.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And he thought it was awesome.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He was like, this is great.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Chuck Palachuk, not so much.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I do have his finger written, digitally signed covers to my books.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then because I'm a super nerd, you guys will be the only people who appreciate this.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So basically what I do is I take a screenshot of the cover on the Kindle and then use the paint program to get rid of some of the superfluous page marks and then use the paint program with a pen sort of thing to sign.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Save that as a PDF or a P&G.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then open up the – basically hack the Amazon, the Kindle DRM so that it's like the pure like ACW file or whatever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then switch out the cover image that is included in the file with the cover image that has the autograph on it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Then repackage it, resend it to – upload it to my Kindle Cloud account –
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
which then means that all my devices are synced and have the autographed copy as the front cover of the e-book.
Casey:
That is a stunning amount of work to go through.
Casey:
With respect, you could have brought a physical book and a Sharpie and it probably would have done the trick.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, here's the thing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
First of all, yes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And if I'd remembered my first edition of Invisible Monsters, the world would be better and I would feel more comfortable.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But that didn't happen, and I wasn't about to buy another print book that I don't have room for in my apartment because I do live in New York, keep in mind.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
My DVDs are taking up all my space.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
They're my children.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm not getting rid of them.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But the books can burn, but the DVDs and Blu-rays are never dying.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
well you know you could upload them use a paint program to remove their covers put them on your cloud account have them sync over to your devices i know well but this way it's just cool to like see the autographed thing like anytime i go through my kindle library like i see the autograph cover that's what i'm saying i mean it was a pain in the app but after i did it one time i was like well this isn't that big of a deal uh i could script it if i wanted to i could it could be an app that dozens of us like in history could use dozens of us dozens of us that's awesome
Casey:
All right.
Casey:
So you said the Fight Club 2, it's happening monthly there.
Casey:
Yeah, that's the story.
Casey:
Okay.
Casey:
And you're getting it on which app on your iDevices?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Dark Horse makes an app.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So it's not part of comicology.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
They're one of the big holdouts.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So you go just Dark Horse Digital.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then I'm also, this is going to be one that I'm going to have to find a comic book store that is still open when I leave the office, which are words I never thought I would say as an adult married person.
Yeah.
Casey:
I never thought we'd hear this on our show either.
Casey:
Merlin and Moises are just rolling in excitement right now.
Casey:
This is probably an elaborate troll on their part to get Marco and I to talk about comics.
Casey:
This took a turn I didn't expect.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, look, we could have a very in-depth discussion about Taylor Swift, but I feel you guys would make fun of her too much, and I'm just really not prepared to deal with that.
Marco:
Well, the reality is I have absolutely nothing bad to say about her because I have no idea about anything she does.
Marco:
And not because I'm willfully avoiding her.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, I understand.
Marco:
Because I am that oblivious to what goes on in modern life.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
She's amazing, and that's all you need to know.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
She's incredible.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
She's our generation's Joni Mitchell.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm not saying that she's as good as Joni at all.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm saying she's basically our Joni, and damn it, that's fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Louis Mantan, I had this discussion at XOXO, and
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
and then proceeded to drunkenly run around the Panix offices and get people to tell us how they pronounce Jif.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Everyone said Gif except for Cable, which I took as a partial victory, but no, I lost.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I lost that word.
Marco:
Wait, you're a Jif person?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I am a Jif person.
Marco:
All right, well, that wraps up the show for this week.
Marco:
Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this week, Fracture, MailRoute, and Backblaze.
Marco:
And Christina, since you aren't mentioned in the song, where can people find you?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So you can find me on Twitter at film underscore girl or journal.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Oh, my.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You can find me at Mashable where I'm a senior tech correspondent, which basically just means I do periscopes and stuff.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And occasionally write reviews.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And you can listen to me on Rocket, a podcast that also airs live at this time with the fabulous Brianna Wu and Simone de Rochefort, as well as a podcast called Overtired that I do with the amazing and totally geektastic Brett Terpstra.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And that podcast, you guys, the tagline is actually pretty brilliant.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's from Objective-C to the OC, from Swift to Taylor Swift.
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Nice.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That's seriously our tagline on our show.
Casey:
That's pretty awesome.
Casey:
And we should point out that in case it wasn't clear and in case you missed the beginning, our dear friend John Syracuse has been the guest on Rocket for this week.
Casey:
So we will put links to that episode in the show notes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He'll be back.
Casey:
Yeah, everything's going back to normal next week, but you should definitely check out John and Rocket.
Casey:
I am genuinely excited.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I can't wait to hear.
Casey:
Oh, I don't even want to think about how that's going to go because I'm sure it's going to be.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Simone and John, I'm really looking forward to that meeting, that culture clash.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm super excited.
Marco:
I kind of hope that he found a way to do follow-up on your show.
Casey:
Oh, goodness.
Casey:
All right.
Marco:
Well, thank you so much, Christina.
Marco:
John didn't do any research.
Marco:
Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because it was accidental.
Marco:
It was accidental.
Marco:
And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.
Marco:
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
Casey:
So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C-U-S-A-C
Casey:
Now, here's the real question for you, Marco.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
How do you take your chili?
Marco:
Hmm.
Marco:
I shouldn't answer this.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Isn't that like an Ohio thing?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like there's like the Cincinnati styles of chili and like other styles of chili?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Casey:
Wait, what are the options?
Casey:
What are available options for how you take a chili?
Marco:
Well, okay, I should clarify, first of all, that I like turkey bacon.
Marco:
Not in my chili, but just in general, I like turkey bacon.
Casey:
More than pig bacon?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
yes weird i quit the show right and so this is why when i i shouldn't be asked about about foods that people hold dear like bacon no i'm not really i don't care anything about like like that sort of thing i'm just saying like aren't there like in ohio isn't there like an ohio way of cincinnati way of having chili where like it's like on top of spaghetti and like there's all sorts of like weird stuff on it where it's like a different sort of meal than like here chili is like in a bowl
Marco:
Well, I think that's mostly Cincinnati, where I've never actually been.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Okay.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, never mind.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Right.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
This concludes Christina's knowledge of the state of Ohio.
Marco:
Columbus is much more about the ranch dressing, which I think that has traveled further now.
Marco:
But now, if you go to Columbus, whenever I'd go home and visit my mom when she lived there still, I would always be surprised in restaurants by how, first of all,
Marco:
Everything you got was tremendous.
Marco:
By New York standards, by any standards, any food you ordered, any drink you ordered, the drinks would come in these 40-ounce plastic diner cups, just regular drinks, water, anything would come.
Marco:
The biggest things possible.
Marco:
And everything would be covered in Rank's dressing.
Marco:
If you ordered something that included dressing, like I ordered a... On my last visit there, before she moved out, I ordered a Greek salad wrap or something.
Marco:
and the wrap, like, it was like the Steve Jobs iPod dropping the fish tank story.
Marco:
There was no air in the wrap.
Marco:
Every gap was filled with dressing.
Marco:
So, like, I bit into it, and the bottom fell out, and just, like, dressing just poured out.
Marco:
Like, it was, oh, my God, it was crazy.
Marco:
So, to answer your original question, um...
Marco:
I have not had a lot of different kinds of chili.
Marco:
The chili I've had, I like, but I don't have a strong opinion on it, and one of my favorite chilies is actually vegetarian.
Marco:
I also like turkey bacon, so I'm sorry.
Casey:
I can't get over that you prefer turkey bacon to pig bacon.
Casey:
This is a genuine travesty in my world.
Marco:
Not all turkey bacon.
Marco:
Most of the turkey bacon varieties I have tried have been awful, but the Oscar Mayer one is really good.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
this is my world is upside down having christina on the show no big deal right but but marco eating turkey bacon oh unacceptable that's bizarre oh yeah we're gonna be we're gonna get way more nasty feedback on that as you should frankly i mean because how can you even call it a bacon if it's from a turkey and not from a pig i mean what the hell like pork is what i don't know see now you've pissed off both of us i hope you're happy
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I think I'm going to have to have some shells and cheese or something to get over this, Casey.
Casey:
I have a recommendation for you if you'd like to know.
Marco:
Yes.
Marco:
I also... I'm a big fan of... I think it's Amy's... I think it's Amy's canned chili.
Marco:
It's like a... I think it's even vegan.
Marco:
It's a canned chili that... It's definitely vegetarian.
Marco:
And I like it... I don't like...
Marco:
Chili in a can, it works great.
Marco:
It's a great kind of food for cans.
Marco:
It's great to have in the cabinet for when it's snowing and you don't want to go out and get lunch or whatever.
Marco:
It's great.
Marco:
But I'm not a huge fan of eating canned meat.
Marco:
That seems wrong to me.
Marco:
I don't like to do that.
Marco:
So vegetable chili is great for that.
Marco:
Now, in the mac and cheese discussion, Casey...
Marco:
Mm-hmm.
Marco:
I think Mike's description of it was accurate.
Casey:
Oh, I would agree with that, actually.
Marco:
However, I agree that it does taste good for a certain definition of good.
Marco:
It is total plastic garbage.
Marco:
Right.
Marco:
But it is good plastic garbage.
Marco:
I can agree with that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, no, that's fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, no, I like it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I have to admit my favorite mac and cheese in the entire world is just the Kraft blue box.
Casey:
Yeah, see, I've had the Kraft Blue Box very recently in the last couple of weeks, maybe a month.
Casey:
And to me, I find it to be completely tasteless.
Casey:
I find it to be completely bland.
Casey:
And I've got to be the crazy one here because everyone seems to think that Kraft mac and cheese, or I think they call it Kraft dinner in crazy places like Australia.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, Kraft dinner in Canada.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Canada, they call it Kraft dinner.
Casey:
Oh, is it Canadian?
Casey:
Oh, I thought it was an Australian thing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It might be an Australian thing, too, but they definitely call it Kraft Dinner in Canada.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
In fact, there's even a reference to it in the If I Had a Million Dollar Song by the Barenaked Ladies.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
We wouldn't have to eat Kraft Dinner, but we still would.
Casey:
Yeah, it's like, yeah.
Casey:
I never realized that.
Casey:
Good call.
Casey:
So, yeah.
Casey:
So a lot of people or most people swear that Kraft Dinner is where it's at.
Casey:
I find it to be completely, completely bland.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Really?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You didn't grow up eating it as a kid?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because as a kid, like, that was what I grew up eating.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I loved it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I still love it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, it is my favorite.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, Easy Mac is the Kraft Dinner sort of variant, although, you know, it's Easy Mac, so it's really not as good or whatever.
Casey:
Well, let me be clear.
Casey:
I will eat the shit out of some Kraft dinner.
Casey:
I'm just saying if I had a choice, I would definitely take Velveeta.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The Velveeta.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You would do the shells and cheese.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, I would definitely do the Kraft dinner over the shells and cheese, although I'll do both.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I have no problem with either one.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But for me, there's almost nothing better than like blue box Kraft macaroni and cheese, $1.19 of the box.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, it's amazing.
Marco:
this show has taken such a turn i think it all started with me it really has i mean and whenever i say this people like get horrified and i'm like yeah i have the palate of a six-year-old it's fine well hey that stuff is good i mean it is good right like like so we we now make macaroni and cheese for our three-year-old uh on a semi-regular basis we get like the fancy uh organic annies whatever whatever but it's basically the same thing you know
Marco:
And I always snack out of the pot after I've made it because it's really good when it's fresh.
Marco:
Oh, yeah.
Marco:
And Tiff and I both, neither of us really want to admit to each other how much we've eaten when this happens.
Marco:
But we both eat a good amount of it because it's just really good.
Marco:
And it does not reheat well at all.
Marco:
No.
Marco:
Even our toddler, he will barely ever touch reheated macaroni and cheese, even though we always try the next day.
Marco:
We always try, but it's like... Between the three of us, we can easily finish off a box without Tiff or I intending to have eaten much of it.
Marco:
Because Adam can eat about half a box already, which is impressive for somebody who's three and like 30 pounds or something.
Marco:
So that's pretty good, but...
Marco:
so good yeah if you put hot dogs in it oh yeah as a kid yeah i mean he he doesn't eat them yet but uh i have definitely not only have i have i did i do that a lot as a kid but i have had that meal as an adult for dinner before oh no i'm not judging you on that one i had that for thanksgiving one year like nice i don't do thanksgiving food so like my dad always makes me a steak every year
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then I have like the different type of mashed potatoes because I don't like the mashed potato casserole.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And like I'm the pain in the ass child that has to have different dinner.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And when I was little, my parents thought I'd just grow out of it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So they would like be satisfied with me eating bread and cranberry sauce.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And then as I got older, they were like, this is getting stupid.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
We'll just make you a steak.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But one year I went to visit my then boyfriend and his family in Seattle.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And he made me mac and cheese with hot dogs cut up in it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And it was amazing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That and wine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And like the rest of the family just kind of looked at me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
They're like, yeah, great girl you got there, Eric.
Marco:
You had mac and cheese with hot dogs and wine?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Marco:
That's awesome.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Right?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
That was my Thanksgiving.
Marco:
That is pretty ridiculous.
Marco:
Oh, that is fantastic.
Marco:
Well, you know, with Thanksgiving, like the turkey, like filling up on turkey is kind of an amateur move on Thanksgiving because usually everything else that you have on Thanksgiving is better than the turkey, even if you have really good turkey.
Marco:
It just so happens that side dishes on Thanksgiving are amazing.
Marco:
And most people don't have really good turkey, so it's even worse.
Casey:
So let me kind of segue this into a slightly different topic.
Casey:
Out of curiosity, Marco, when you're going back to Columbus, which I know you said you don't really do anymore, but let's say hypothetically you're going tomorrow to Columbus, what is the first food item that you're going to seek out?
Marco:
do i have to eat anything while i'm there but yeah i'm saying like you're in columbus you're you want something that reminds you of home that reminds you like something that maybe you can't get in new york or that you just miss he's like do you go straight to steak and shake or whatever i think yeah steak and shake is a is a good choice because you can't really get that around here i don't think i've ever been oh it's great you gotta go to go to steak and shake at the frisco melt that's it and a shake the frisco melt is in san francisco
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah, so it's like a sourdough bread, and then it's like a patty melt with sourdough bread.
Casey:
Yep.
Casey:
Jesus, what do you not know, Christina?
Casey:
Oh, God, you're killing me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I know my fast food now.
Marco:
So you know the important stuff.
Marco:
Tiff and I, when we were in college in Pennsylvania, at the time, they didn't have any steak and shakes in Pennsylvania.
Marco:
I don't know if they do now.
Marco:
But they did have them all over Ohio.
Marco:
And we were in Pennsylvania only about 15 miles from the Ohio border.
Marco:
So on a couple of occasions, we did like a special night out where we would just drive to Ohio to go to Steak and Shake.
Casey:
Special night out to Steak and Shake.
Casey:
That's so delightfully awful.
Casey:
And I am one of those people that would have done the same thing if I were in your shoes.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Look, at this point in my life, like living in New York, like there is a Denny's now downtown, which is great.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But I've seriously considered taking an Uber to like Jersey to go to Red Lobster or to go to Sonic.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm serious because sometimes I just really miss chain food.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And I thought about this as a startup idea.
Marco:
Chain seafood?
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, look, the Cheddar Bee Biscuits are amazing.
Marco:
Amen.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
The Cheddar Bee Biscuits are amazing.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And the thing is, yes, there is a Red Lobster in Times Square.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But hey, they automatically charge you a ridiculous gratuity charge, even if it's two of you, because people in tourists don't tip.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I get that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Whatever.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Be the surface is mediocre.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
See, it's even for Red Lobster.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
It's like whatever.
Casey:
So, Christina, if you were going back to Atlanta, you're obviously getting Chick-fil-A.
Casey:
What else are you going to get?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I love Arby's.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So Chick-fil-A is the first one, Arby's.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Sonic sometimes because like they have the tater tots.
Casey:
Oh, I love Sonic.
Casey:
Sonic is my jam.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
They have the tater tots.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So my startup idea, like I think that especially with this frothy is all the shit it is, I think I could get funding for this.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So my idea is people are like, oh, just use Postmates.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm like, yeah, it'll be cold by the time the food gets there.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
What if you had a service like basically aimed at like the big cities where you don't have a lot of the chain restaurants?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So basically I'm thinking New York is like your primary or sole market.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
where you have people who get together and get an Uber, like a group Uber, and go to the suburbs.
Casey:
Wait, is that a Gruber?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Basically, get a Gruber and go to a fast food place, eat, and then come back.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And you split the cost of the ride with everyone.
Casey:
I would so rock that.
Casey:
I would definitely do it.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like, I mean, you know, you have a car, Marco.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So for you, you're like, whatever, I can just go someplace.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But for like those of us who don't have cars and who live in the city or in Brooklyn, who sometimes want, you know, the finer things in life, like going to New Jersey on your own for like a fast food expedition is silly.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And yes, one time I did take the Staten Island Ferry to get a Dairy Queen.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm only partially embarrassed by that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
And now there's one in Union Square so that I'd never have to do it again.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But like if I didn't have to do those things, if I could just go to like the suburbs like with a group of people and eat my Arby's or – well, now there's a Denny's in Fight Eye so I don't have to do that.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
But go to like my chain restaurants.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Like I would love that.
Casey:
Yeah, see, if I'm going... So for me, home is New York.
Casey:
It's a New York area.
Casey:
Maybe not New York City specifically, but I went to high school in Western Connecticut.
Casey:
My parents are from Mount Vernon and Newburgh, which is upstate, no matter how you slice it to you guys.
Casey:
But if I'm going back to the New York area...
Casey:
First thing I'm doing is getting some pizza.
Casey:
And the second thing I'm doing is getting some bagels.
Casey:
And I miss both of those dearly.
Casey:
I'm a particular fan of John's of Bleecker Street.
Casey:
That's my personal favorite.
Casey:
I love John's.
Casey:
I actually recently, by way of browbeating Matt Panzarino for like three years about it.
Casey:
I convinced him to go to John's of Bleecker.
Casey:
And as far as I know, that was a positive experience for him.
Casey:
If you're ever going to New York, definitely go to John's of Bleecker.
Casey:
In my personal opinion, as a non-New York resident, it is unbelievably great pizza.
Casey:
And obviously, bagels anywhere near the city are just fantastic.
Casey:
So that's what I miss when I go back to the Northeast.
Casey:
We have some reasonable substitute bagels and some reasonable substitute pizza.
Casey:
Enough that it keeps me from going insane, but it is by no means an equivalent to what's in New York.
Casey:
What other terrible things do we need to discuss while John isn't here?
Casey:
We can talk about Windows.
Casey:
He really hates Windows.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Yeah.
Casey:
Coding Explorer is recommending we talk about file systems.
Casey:
I'll hard pass on that, thanks.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Well, come on.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
You guys, don't we want to talk about the virtues of ZFS versus HFS Plus again?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Because, I mean, I really don't think that's been done to death enough.
Marco:
Well, I was thinking, I mean, you know, unless anybody says otherwise, I think HFS Plus is fine.
Marco:
What do you guys think?
Casey:
That's good for me.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
No, I think it's fine.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, I think that data redundancy isn't that important.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, you know, like everything's back in the cloud anyway.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
Everything's back in the cloud anyway.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
So who really cares?
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I mean, that's all I'm saying.
Marco:
Exactly.
Marco:
Oh, God.
Marco:
I guess that's the ATP final word on that topic.
Casey:
It's all over.
Casey:
We'd never have to do it again.
Casey:
Oh, God, he's going to kill us.
Casey:
He's going to be so angry.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
He would totally kill.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm sorry, John.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I'm sorry.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I couldn't resist.
NEW_SPEAKER_SPEAKER_00:
I am a fan of the show.
Casey:
Oh, goodness.
Bye.