They’ve Opened the Door to Streakers
John, are you broke now?
Did you get a ticket?
We'll talk about it on the show.
Come on.
That's the show.
So how's things going, John?
How was your vacation in California?
It was very Californian.
So you didn't really live in reality.
Everywhere you went, you just dropped $100 bills like they were singles.
Sometimes it felt like that.
There were expensive things there, but overall everything worked out.
I think I took every form of transportation except for a taxi.
I don't even know if they still have those in San Francisco.
I think they've been outlawed.
Yeah.
So the vacation was good.
You seem to hang out with most of the friends of the internet that I can think of that are in that neck of the woods.
Yeah, and we did all the touristy things that you can do in San Francisco.
We, you know, did bus tours.
Did you like Alcatraz?
Yeah, went to Alcatraz, rode on a cable car, went to the really windy street, you know, did all the tourist things you can do.
Yeah.
I love that the tourist things in San Francisco are ride on a really bad road, take mass transit and go to jail.
Yeah.
went to the woods too and we went to beaches uh up and down the coast on the beach in santa cruz and some other beach that i don't i don't know where it is but it's got little tidal pools did the pacific ocean stuff when a hike in uh marine county you know just lots of lots of things we fit a lot in in the short number of days we were there
So as we record, it is Friday night, the 22nd.
We should probably talk about the elephant in the room.
WWDC ticket announcements are starting to trickle out as we record this.
How'd it go for you, John?
In the lead up to this, I had some issues that I had to deal with, mostly of my own creation.
But when you sign up for the lottery, it has the this year I had the same message they had.
I think it was the same message they had in previous years.
But anyway, the same realities in previous years, which is if you enter the lottery.
and you win the lottery, they attempt to charge your credit card at the moment they have decided you've won the lottery.
And if that charge doesn't go through for some reason, they say, actually, you have not won the lottery.
We're moving on to the next person, which is very bad.
And it happened to a lot of people in the past.
And Apple's been pretty good about trying to go back and give them tickets later.
But it's a really terrible system in that if they pick your name out of the hat and is a winner of the lottery,
they should give you a day or two to sort out the payment situation.
Now, why might your credit card reject it?
Because your credit card company is fraud happy and it sees this big $1,600 charge randomly on a card.
And I don't know how their fraud detection works, but if you trip your credit card company's fraud detection, Apple will give your ticket to somebody else.
They won't say,
well, it got rejected, but we'll give you 24 to 48 hours to sort it out with your credit card company.
No, they just move on immediately.
And so this year, same message.
They said, just wanted you to know that if we fail to charge your credit card, we're taking your ticket away and giving it to someone else, which is terrible.
It's just a terrible system.
It should be, again, 24 to 48 hours.
Let the people sort out whether they can get it.
So I was afraid this would happen.
When I signed up, I saw that the credit card I had in there is my traditional, this is what I use to buy my Max with credit card, which also happens to be the traditional...
Apple cannot charge my credit card because the payment company rejected it because it thinks it's fraud.
I bought so many thousands of dollars for the max on this one credit card.
Same number.
It's never been stolen on the Internet.
It's a miracle.
Right.
And year after year, every time I try to buy Apple equipment with it, they market as fraud.
One of the things I suggest is, hey, Apple says this in their message, you should call your credit card company and tell them to expect a $1,600 charge sometime in the next, you know, between the 22nd and the 25th from, and they don't even tell you the name, I guess just from Apple Computer.
um so that's what some people have done and again people have done it and call their credit card company and tell them please don't reject my card there's going to be a charge and the credit card company will say yep thumbs up don't worry it'll go through and that gets rejected because they're credit card companies well and i think also like the whole thing about like calling your credit card company to like pre-approve a big transaction i think that's kind of like the door close button on most elevators yeah
Their system is all so advanced for fraud detection these days.
I'm pretty sure when you call most credit card companies and tell them, oh, hey, whitelist this thing in the future that hasn't even happened yet, I don't think they even can do anything about that because the system is based mostly on do you have a pre-approval or do you have an attempt for the charge?
And then do we issue a commit for the charge?
And if they don't have even the attempt for the charge, I don't think the people on the phone can even do anything about it.
Yeah, it's funny you bring that up because last year I saw that same message and the fear was put in me and I called my credit card company and I got on the phone with them and I was like, hey, you know, I'd really like to try to get this charge pre-approved.
It's really important to me.
And they basically, in so many words, said, yeah, that's not a thing.
We can't do that.
Goodbye, clunk.
Yeah.
So this year I did the same thing and I called the credit card company and I took a different approach this time.
And I said, hey, there's a really important charge that may or may not be going through.
And I'd really like to make sure that it doesn't get held up.
Can you like pre-approve it or annotate my account in some way such that there's a note that this is acceptable?
Right.
And so I eventually got pushed to the fraud department, which makes sense because they're the ones who would keep track of this thing.
And I got on the phone with the woman and she had said, you know, OK, well, what are you trying to accomplish?
Well, I'd like to pre-approve this thing.
Well, you have to understand, like, there's a lottery.
And if I win the lottery, wait, wait, wait, you're talking like some sort of gambling thing?
No, no, no, no, no.
It's not gambling.
It's all right.
Here's the thing.
So there's this like conference.
It's a nerd conference, but it's really important to me and this and that.
And eventually she was like, OK, much information already.
Yeah, you've already lost.
Yeah.
So she was like, OK, whatever.
So I've made a note.
And then I'm thinking to myself, OK, well, I don't know if it's relevant or not, but the charge would be from Apple.
Like she didn't even care who the charge is from.
So I think you're right that she was like, OK, whatever.
That's great.
Go away.
And then I, by coincidence, happened to see a friend of the show underscore David Smith for lunch today.
And he and I were talking about it and he immediately came to the same conclusion that you guys did, which is the one I eventually came to, which was, oh yeah, this is not a thing.
It's all automated.
There's nothing you can do about it anyway.
Good freaking luck.
These charges look so suspicious also because like it's $1,600, which is as much as a laptop costs from a company that if you stole a credit card and you wanted to go get a quick win with something you could quickly flip and sell, you'd probably go buy a fancy technology product like a fancy laptop from Apple.
And so like, I bet lots of fraudulent charges are for Apple.
It's also a card not present transaction, because it's done online.
So again, it's like if you steal a credit card online, you're probably going to go try to place an order from the Apple Web Store, which is exactly where these charges come from.
And you're calling up and saying, this charge might happen.
I can't even tell you that I'm definitely trying it.
I haven't tried it yet.
This charge might happen in a few days.
So you're basically asking their fraud detection systems to completely go against all of their heuristics and instincts, basically.
so the note the person made in your account that's for other human beings to read but the thing that's going to reject your wwdc charge is not a human and will never look at that note and therefore that note is meaningless oh i completely agree and that's exactly what underscored said as well and i think you're right that it really was just so i could go to sleep at night that if for some reason i had a rejection that i have done
everything in my power to make sure that this goes through which is to say i've wasted five minutes of my time and several phone operators time yeah so i had a an alternate strategy suggested by my wife which was why don't you use the credit card that doesn't get rejected which is another one of our credit cards that historically speaking has not gotten immediately rejected every time we tried to buy expensive things with it i think we may have bought some apple heart or barber with it
uh in fact i did buy some apple hardware with it uh in uh california which we'll talk about later um and so i said that's a good idea uh so i went to go change the default credit card this is after i had entered the lottery so already i'm nervous i'm like i've already entered the lottery it said that it was going to use that card i'm going to change a different card so i log in to that apple id and uh
have you seen the new site for like developer.apple.com when you sign in it's got this weird interface where everything is centered and it shows your certificates and your itunes connect account and anyway there's an option to go edit your account or your change your payment method and that sends you to appleid.apple.com and it wants you to sign in there and enter my apple id and try to sign in and it says this apple id is not an email address you cannot continue and i knew this day would come someday i have an apple id that is not an email address because i got a really long time ago
And I've been using it for years and years, going to WWDC with it, doing all sorts of stuff with it.
And many people I know who had non-email Apple IDs had gotten that same message many years past and had to change it.
And so I'm thinking, is this the right, the best time to change my Apple ID from one that's not an email to one that's an email?
But I also want to change the payment method.
And this is the only, I tried many different ways to get around this.
Can I get at my credit card information without going through this thing that demands that I change it to an email?
And eventually I gave up and said, I have to change it to an email.
So now my non-email Apple ID is no more.
It has been converted to an email address Apple ID, like the rest of the peons.
But I could get in to change my credit card, and I did, and I changed it to the credit card that does not get rejected.
so that was all of my prep and i thought long and hard about should i just leave it the way it is or should i try to call somebody to get the credit card changed over the phone while leaving my apple id is it a good idea anyway and that was most of the uh excitement and bother about it because i thought they were going to tell uh
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
i'm going i will be there even though i was just there i will be there again it will cost a tremendous amount of money still haven't decided which hotel which of the two hotel reservations i've made i'm going to keep and which one i'm going to cancel but one of them i will keep so i will be there yay all right so uh what else is going on these days you you guys have to answer what your experience has been like did you win the ticket lottery
Let's talk about anything else in the entire world but that.
Nope.
I take it by your sadness that neither one of you got tickets in the lottery.
As we record, I have not received an email.
I have not received a you-got-one email, and I have not received a haha-tough-nuggies email either.
Right.
You've gotten until the 25th, technically, to see whether you get one.
Just because you don't have an email right now does not mean you're not going to get a ticket in the lottery, because they have a three-day window there, so...
Yeah, it's probably not happening.
Now, I did not see any attempted charge against my card, although presumably I wouldn't even see an attempted one unless it went through.
I did not see a charge go through.
But like I said, I haven't received the Screw You email yet.
My coworker, Jamie, he did get one on the same master account, like we're two individuals, two members of the same group account.
He already got his, so I'm not too terribly hopeful.
But strictly speaking...
I have until Monday afternoon to see, but we'll see what happens.
I have not yet received any confirmation or denial.
And Marco, I believe you're in the same boat.
That is correct.
I have seen no response about my ticket status.
And there are also... I checked my bank and there is not a pending charge on the credit card.
So...
I've heard... ATP Tipster in the chat is saying that he asked around and that apparently the charges are still being processed, that it's not over yet.
But I think it's probably over.
We talked about this on Under the Radar this past week, or last week, I guess.
I am totally fine going without a ticket.
I would prefer to have a ticket, but...
Every year, I think my need for it goes down.
And this year, if I don't get one through the regular process like everybody else, I think I'm not going to try to pull strings or anything or try to email around or email developer relations or whatever.
I don't think I'm going to do any of that because if I can get one through the regular means, that's great.
But if I don't, that's fine too.
I'll let somebody else take it.
So what do you think about, we discussed this briefly in Slack, but what do you think about the idea that one or all of us should get tickets because we have a podcast where we talk about Apple stuff?
In other words, us going as press rather than as iOS developers or whatever.
Because I think that is a perfectly legitimate reason for people to go to WWDC.
In fact, I have in the past had press pass to WWDC for writing my OS X reviews, which I'm no longer doing.
but uh podcasts are a thing and people interested in technology listen to podcasts and at the very least you would imagine especially now that they're holding the keynote in the big auditorium we'll talk about later that there's more room for press it's you know for the keynote at least if not for the entire conference or maybe just for the first day things with the state of the union and everything like that then why shouldn't somebody who has a reasonably popular
uh apple tech related podcasts be in the running at least be considered for press passes uh how many tech podcasts do get press passes to wwdc as far as i know there aren't any i'm not aware of any
Yeah.
So why shouldn't there be a category of, you know, we're going to get press passes to, of course, all the big publications and all the big websites and also one or two tech podcasts that we pick out of a hat or something?
I completely agree with you.
I don't think it's unreasonable, but clearly I'm extremely biased.
And especially right now, because although I'm not saying I'm going to pull a bunch of strings, because honestly, I don't think I even have strings to pull.
But if strings were pulled on my behalf,
people of the internet, I wouldn't complain because I'm still learning all this stuff.
And I would still love to get an actual ticket into the big show.
I will be there regardless, but I would love to have a ticket, especially since it is more pertinent to my world than ever before.
No, I mean, really, among the three of us, I think, Casey, you probably have the biggest justification for going this year.
This year, yeah.
I don't think we could say that in years past, but this year I would agree.
Although it's probably best that if any of us, John gets it because all three of us know that if John didn't get a ticket, there's no freaking way we would convince him to go to San Francisco just for funsies.
Exactly.
I was just there too.
Exactly.
Even more reason for you to tell us to kindly screw off.
It is worth pointing out also that the press tickets, the people who cover the keynote for the press who get press badges, first of all, it's kind of an awesome gig because you don't have to wait in the four-hour long line.
But second of all, those people do not get conference badges for the rest of the conference.
It's only the keynote.
In general, there are exceptions.
Yeah, it's very rare to have an exception, though.
It would be plausible and reasonable for them to consider large tech podcasts to cover their developer conference to give them press passes, but it wouldn't necessarily follow that they would get conference tickets.
And the press passes tend to go out far later.
The press people aren't getting invited now.
They're probably going to get invited two weeks before the event.
Yeah, and in the old days, it used to be, you know, that USA Today and the New York Times and Time Magazine and stuff would get press passes, but websites would not.
And then eventually, a couple of websites became part of the blessed set that Apple PR chose to give passes to.
These days, it seems like it's, you know, mostly websites and then, of course, paper publications or whatever.
So there is a progression of websites.
what are the what is the the the the entities that are allowed to get press passes what are they are they uh newspapers magazines websites podcasts i don't think are in that group yet but it's a natural progression from only inviting paper publications to also including websites to eventually including podcasts assuming the audience of any podcast is big enough to warrant that maybe ours isn't you know i'm not saying that we you know that atp needs to get some but i am yeah i'll say that yeah yeah
Come on, John.
Promote yourself.
Well, you got one.
You're fine.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't care.
I mean, I got press pass with Ars Technica, but Ars Technica is a very big website, right?
And The Verge is a very big website, right?
Whereas any individual podcast can't really compare to the size of a very big website like that.
So maybe there's some minimum number that they, you know...
a minimum minimum audience size or whatever that they wanted to do anyway um i think if someone inside apple's listening to this that it would be silly not to include podcasts in your list of entities who should get press passes for the keynote in the first day state of the union stuff because people listen to podcasts people like them um and they're just as a legitimate form of coverage and discussion as anything else
I think it's also worth pointing out, too, that the watch event, the very first watch event, it went over September or November 2014, right?
Something like that.
And that was at the Bill Graham Auditorium also, actually.
But that very first watch event, at that event, that was the first time where they really invited a very broad swath of press, and partly because they were going into a new category.
So they had watch press, fashion press.
But that was also the first press event I know of where they invited...
major YouTube tech people like MKBHD.
It seems like they're breaking the YouTube barrier or the YouTube seal.
They're breaking the YouTube seal in the last couple events recently, at least the really big ones.
So maybe podcasts have some hope.
I mean, unfortunately, podcasts are indeed older than YouTube, but YouTube is way bigger than podcasts.
And MKBHD, his audience is probably...
10 or 15 times the size of ours, at least.
Probably even more than that.
I haven't looked recently.
There are millions.
They've got millions of viewers on the YouTube channel.
So, yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, like, you know, there are lots of, like, you know, really popular YouTubers who would, by raw numbers, be ranked way above a tech podcast like ours.
But, you know, Apple PR also...
purely based on numbers it's partly based on like you know who you know it's partly based on um long established reputation and partly based on influence so somebody who has a relatively small readership but a high influence like jim dalrymple is a great example jim dalrymple's site like if you look at his numbers on his stats and sponsorship pages like
There are sites that get more than that that don't get passes.
But because he's so influential and he's been around so long covering this stuff, I think that helps him be included on those lists.
So it isn't all about numbers.
It is also about influence and relationships.
Yeah, and someone in the chat room was saying that if they picked all three of us from ATP, it would be like, you know, inside baseball, echo chamber, favoritism, or whatever.
Like, that's the job of PR.
The PR department in Apple, its job is to select which people.
And one possible PR strategy is only invite people who you know love Apple.
Yeah.
is that the best pr strategy probably not but their whole job is to decide who to pick of course it's all favoritism it's who it's who it's who apple pr favors and apple pr if it's good will not only favor uh you know people that love apple they will try to have an even mix where they want a positive outcome but they're not just going to pick people who they know never say anything negative about apple they're they're picking based on a complicated criteria but it is ultimately entirely their choice right so there's no such thing as you know
favoritism it's there's it's not like there's no what is the opposite of favoritism that the government picks who gets to cover you know like it's apple's conference it's apple's conference of their pr people pick who gets press passes that's it there's no it's not a democracy it's not you know
And I would imagine, too, your ability to say negative things about Apple and still get invited is probably correlated to your age and size.
So Joanna Stern can say in the Wall Street Journal that the iPhone doesn't have enough battery life.
But if we say that, that might hurt our chances of getting in.
Because we're not the Wall Street Journal.
Yeah, thanks, Marco.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Yeah, you ruined it for all of us.
Well, John got in, so I'm just ruining it for you, Casey.
Sorry, Casey.
yeah i mean like and once you once you come out of the press realm of talking about whether we should get passes or press passes or whatever then it just gets into okay well you're just another ios developer like everybody else and then i have no idea what algorithm they use to randomly pick up i did not win the lottery last year or the year before that how many years has lottery been going
three i believe yeah so this is the first time i've actually won the lottery all the other years i've got like you know press pass and stuff so you know uh that's probability for you
Yeah, I should also note it is very clear on the WWDC website where they go through the policies and whatnot that tickets are non-transferable.
You know, if somebody was kind enough to offer like, hey, Marco or Casey, you can have my ticket because I want you to have it even though, you know, I want it.
It is possible to make that happen.
But basically, what you have to do is ask Apple and give them a pretty good reason.
And they have every right to say no.
So, yeah, it seems like if if Mark and I don't get them sometime in the next few hours or slash couple of days.
Then we'll just be goofing off in San Francisco, riding the cable cars, eating rice-a-roni.
We will be sleeping in on Monday.
That's what we're going to be doing.
That is true, actually.
We're going to be not waiting on the freezing cold line at 5 a.m.
Yeah, that is absolutely true.
And we'll be eating a lot of rice-a-roni because it's a San Francisco treat.
Ding, ding.
Oh, my God.
We couldn't even make that joke because my kids have never seen that commercial.
Oh, goodness.
That's right.
Your job as a parent is to make jokes that are barely funny to begin with that your kids won't even get.
All right.
Well, have fun, John.
It's cool.
I hope you have a good time.
You can come anyway.
Go to the Layers Conference or something.
That's probably what I'm going to do.
Yeah, actually, I don't think it's even been announced officially yet.
No, they've announced the dates.
There's no tickets yet, but the dates have been announced.
yeah there's no tickets yes you can't buy tickets yet but i i will be go i think i mean if i don't get a wdc ticket i'll definitely be going to layers and i think i'd even be going anyway last year i actually got both and uh and i didn't regret that at all so i am looking forward to layers this year so uh yeah so i'll be there for that at least and i already put the plane ticket i'm gonna be the whole week so uh i'll see you i'll see you there regardless of uh what happens
Yeah, we're all going to be there.
Oh, and by the way, like everyone's talking about this, but like WDC has been getting more and more expensive.
There's a couple of blog posts about how much more expensive it is in the past.
I think this is close to my limit of like next year.
If current trends continue, I may not even enter the lottery because it is such a tremendous amount of money and I'm not writing an OS 10 review.
um so i'm basically going for the purposes of this show and my own edification uh combination but boy it is a lot of money i look at how much money is costing it all in and i just think about what else i could do with that money uh you know as my wife reminds me it will be tax deductible because this is a work thing but boy it's uh it's very difficult to justify uh as the the price keeps going up
yeah i mean especially like the hotel prices are probably the biggest chunk of it for most people now unless you're flying from somewhere very far away but otherwise you're you know you're paying you're paying almost two thousand dollars for the hotel in most cases or more or yeah actually you could depending on how far you're willing to walk and many other things whether you require a bathroom and other such things that seem like they should be included yeah that's why i made multiple reservations so that i can
just decide how much i want to spend based on how far i want to walk and all sorts of other issues and and by the way that's yeah for people who don't know i'm sure marco covered this in the uh developing perspective that i have not listened to under the radar perfect it's an understandable mistake one of those underscore shows uh about prep for wwc and the thing that everybody in our circle tends to do these days is try to figure out when wwc is going to be based on reading tea leaves and stuff and then just make hotel reservations and
Many, many months in advance.
So I think I made my hotel reservations in January or February or something.
Yeah, I made mine in February.
Yeah, you can cancel hotel reservations without any cost in most hotels.
So you just guess and make a whole bunch of reservations for a whole bunch of weeks.
And when Apple announces it, you cancel all the other ones.
yep that's exactly what i did i booked in early february uh ended up guessing correctly which was excellent um and the bill in early february for the hotel where we all tend to stay was two thousand five hundred dollars and i actually roughly and i actually went through and dug up what the bills were at this same hotel over the last few years and wrote a blog post about this and in 2013 it was one thousand one hundred and twenty three dollars and forty six cents
And as I just said, in 2016, it's going to be thereabouts of twenty five hundred dollars.
So if I were to get a ticket, which I'm hoping but not expecting, then it's roughly four thousand dollars to go to or excuse me, not even to go there to be in San Francisco teleported by magic.
to sleep there and then go to WWDC.
Now, I have not eaten any dinners.
I haven't actually made it to San Francisco yet.
All I'm doing is sleeping and going to the conference.
And I've looked at plane tickets.
I booked my outbound ticket because I knew I was going to be there for at least a couple days, even without a WWDC ticket.
I have yet to book my return flight.
But it should be about $500 all told.
So in case you were wondering, it costs about the same amount of money to be transported in a tube through space 3,000 miles, whatever it is across the country, as it does to sleep one night in San Francisco.
Actually, across the country and back, I should say, is approximately the same as one night in San Francisco.
yeah the joke we made last year is every night you're there for wwdc that's one apple watch go to sleep that's another apple watch go to sleep that's another apple now it's going to be it's a little bit nicer apple watch every night soon we're going to graduate to the stainless steel model every night all right now that i've gotten a ticket uh you can thank me for ensuring that there will be no new file system this year because if i didn't show up they would definitely announce a new file system but because i'm going to be there
There will be no new file system this year.
2017, like I said, 2017, I won't get a ticket, and they'll release a new file system.
Maybe we'll get the Tifter USB hub before then.
It's funny because I had said to a few people leading up to the WWDC tickets being announced,
Here it was.
I've been 2011 through 15 inclusive.
And every one of those years, you would think, well, I kind of didn't have a lot of business being there.
I sort of did once ATP came.
But in terms of my day-to-day job, I had no business being there.
I was just very lucky.
And here it is.
I am now an honest-to-goodness iOS developer.
And sitting here now, I do not have a WWDC ticket.
The one time when it makes sense for me to have one.
I don't.
It's okay, though.
I'll be okay.
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We should probably do what is indisputedly follow up, and we should talk about what a friend of the show, Matt and Reese, has written in regarding.
This was about the charging stations again, Tesla versus other.
He was pointing out the standard charging connector that we talked about last show.
And he says where he is in Austin, Texas, there are hundreds of what he calls level two charging stations in Austin alone.
Chargepoint.com lists 27,000 total vastly outnumbering superchargers.
So these are not the super fast, supercharged things for Tesla.
Otherwise, they're just kind of like...
plug your car in while you're shopping or while you're at work or whatever.
So they charge more slowly, but there are many, many more of them.
Some of them are free.
Some of them charge an hourly rate or whatever.
He says, I have a lot of respect for Tesla trying to solve the road trip problem.
It's ambitious and the kind of thing that no car company would do, no other car company would do, but they're also doing a good job of having destination charges at hotels.
But I'm seeing great progress on the infrastructure you actually need day-to-day within cities, and those aren't from Tesla.
So we talk so much about Tesla and their superchargers, but it's important to acknowledge, and I see this too at the mall and stuff, that there are tons of electric car park here, parking spots, and I guess those all have the standard SAE connector in them.
And no, they don't charge as fast as the superchargers do.
That's why the superchargers are super, but there's way, way more of them.
Excellent.
We should also talk about, and we made reference to him earlier, MKBHD.
Yeah, now that we're all jealous of the press pass that he's getting and we're not, we should take this time to dance on his self-inflicted grave.
Is that now a mixing metaphor?
Sorry.
Wait, what happened?
I missed this.
Oh, quote me?
Yeah, to his credit, he tweeted this himself.
This is a tweet from him.
He says, me in 2015.
I guarantee the next-gen MacBook will have at least two USB-C ports.
And then he put me right now because, of course, the MacBook was updated.
We'll talk about that a little later.
It does not have two USB-C ports.
Last year or whenever he made that video...
he was very adamant that it will have more than one quote me he said and i believe we uh had a chuckle about it on the show because it's totally an apple thing to do to not add one more port despite the fact that we had like 17 episodes of atp talking about this one port we were not convinced i don't think if my recollection serves and now it's going to be 18 yeah that that apple was going to change their mind just because we want more than one port doesn't mean apple does and lo and behold there's a new macbook out it does not have more than one port
uh mkbhd called himself on it to his credit we will put the links in the show notes so and and also i think he ran out of room in the tweet because in the tweet he said i guarantee the next gen macbook in the actual quote he said i pretty much guarantee the second generation of this than my new macbook so he said pretty much so he had a waffle word in there so he's learning learning the ways of doing
learning the ways of the waffle words he said pretty much guarantee which is not the same as a guarantee it's like virtually spotless your dishes will have spots uh so anyway i gave him a pass i also agree that uh they should have more than one port as previously discussed but they don't
Yeah, I mean, something tells me that we have more to learn from MKBHD than he has to learn from us.
But I think, you know, we've seen a lot of comments since they... So Apple updated the MacBook One, the 12-inch MacBook, which I call the MacBook One, which actually that name has stuck around in our circle.
I'm actually very proud of that.
So Apple has updated the MacBook One with Skylake CPU this past week.
and it is not a big update it is and a lot of people are really expecting expecting basically the impossible from this and i can't blame them i mean you know apple has cultivated a an expectation of like products get a lot better in their second and third generations uh and everything is always getting better all the time so shouldn't this get better by by leaps and bounds too um and
The reality is that the MacBook One uses a special, extremely low power consumption Intel platform.
It uses a very low power CPU with a very limited low power chipset to power everything else also.
And one of the core principles of...
you know, computers today, modern mobile computers, especially laptops, is that you basically have, you're limited by power and thermals.
And so you have different classes of what kind of performance and what kind of connectivity, what kind of ports, what kind of luxuries, you know, what kind of speeds, how many cores.
These are all determined by fundamentally, like, how much power can you supply the CPU and then correspondingly, how much heat can you cool from being emitted from the CPU.
And
Like a MacBook Air, those CPUs are something like 17-watt consumption and heat design.
A 13-inch MacBook, I forget what those are, something in like the 25 range maybe.
And then a 15-inch with the quad cores, that's going to be somewhere in the 40-watt range.
The MacBook one CPU has a five watt range, a five watt CPU cannot do a whole lot compared to even the 17 watt CPUs in the MacBook air, let alone like the nicer, you know, 20 or 30 watt CPUs in like a 13 inch MacBook pro.
The MacBook One is designed, it's fanless, which is one of the biggest limitations of this because even a little bit of air moving through a heat sink can cool way more effectively than totally passive cooling systems.
So this thing has no fan.
It has a very small battery inside a very small enclosure.
So the limitations placed on this are such that
The MacBook One, as long as it continues to be in that size enclosure and not have an active cooling fan and not have a substantially bigger battery, it will never have similar performance as even a couple generation old 13-inch MacBook Pro.
or even a couple generation old MacBook Air, if the MacBook Air has continued to be updated, which is a giant if, and the answer is probably no.
But people who expected the MacBook One to be two or three times faster than it was before, you're going to be disappointed because there just isn't enough thermal headroom in that enclosure.
And desktop or PC CPUs don't make those kind of jumps in power efficiency in one year.
This computer will never match the MacBook Pro of like even two or three years ago.
It will, you know, it's very limited by what it can do.
And if you want something, basically, the new MacBook One is something like 20% faster than the old MacBook One.
I haven't seen a whole bunch of benchmarks yet, but it's in that ballpark, in the ballpark.
in the ballpark of 20 faster and and that's a big bump too because like you're normally when we get new max it's like oh and the cpu is 15 faster and you take what you can get 20 25 faster and cpu is nothing to sneeze at like i don't think this is a bad update it is faster and gets more battery life that's what updates are supposed to do they just didn't add a usb port whatever
Well, exactly.
But a lot of people, especially people who have owned the MacBook 1, the first generation one, the MacBook 1 is a very slow computer.
A lot of them were hoping that this would make it a reasonably speeded computer, and it just doesn't.
Because...
Slow times 1.2 is still slow.
And you're right, 20% in one generation is a massive jump for PC CPUs these days.
You're lucky to get 5% or 10% most of the time.
So this was a substantial jump.
Skylake was a long time coming, and it's a major advancement by Intel.
And so they put this in here, and it's still a slow computer.
It still only has one port.
And some of that is because of limitations of that low-power chipset.
Adding more ports requires more from the chipset, which this super low-power chipset, for some of the things people want, doesn't even support it.
For some of the other things, we don't know why the reasons are that they were omitted, but they probably have to do with space and power.
So this computer will never be what the MacBook Air is today.
The role the MacBook Air serves today requires a little bit more space, a little bit bigger battery, and a fan.
This is kind of the problem.
Apple has replaced the MacBook Air, effectively, from the way it appears.
They've replaced the MacBook Air with a computer that can never replace the MacBook Air.
And it might be irrelevant.
A lot of people like this better.
That's fine.
The MacBook Pro is likely to get a lot thinner and lighter when it gets its Skylake update.
Any day now, basically, but probably WVDC.
So the MacBook Air is kind of just left for nothing.
There's now these wonderful 17-watt CPUs that Intel makes that Apple is just not going to be using, I guess, in the future, which seems like a mistake, but I don't know.
So the MacBook One...
In order to get that size, you're giving up quite a lot.
And one of those things is that computer will never be fast relative to the rest of the computers.
It won't even be remotely competitive compared to the rest of the lineup.
And it will never have the connectivity of the rest of the lineup.
And if that's what you want, if you want some kind of modern performance and decent connectivity, you're going to have to go with a bigger model.
And that's not too bad because the bigger models are awesome.
Didn't they get a SSD speed bump, too?
Yes.
Yeah, faster storage.
And I think faster storage will probably have more of an impact on people's lives of that computer than CPU speed, because I don't think people are using it to do, like, big CPU, or they shouldn't be using a big CPU test.
But everything you do, like, involves the disk, like, launching things, and even just web browsing with the disk cache and everything.
So I haven't used one of these in person, but...
Yeah, but the disk was already fast.
It was already a PCI Express native SSD.
If you look at raw numbers, it is faster now, and it's faster by a pretty good margin in disk benchmarks.
But the whole machine is still held back dramatically by the very slow CPU and its very low power ceiling.
You might think, like, I thought when I bought one for a day, I thought, you know what?
What am I doing on a laptop that needs that much power?
It's like, most of the time, I'm just, like, typing and answering emails and stuff.
So, most of the time, it's fine, right?
Well, first of all, typing.
Not on that.
But... And also, the trackpad.
That's the worst Force Tux trackpad I've ever used.
But...
You'd be surprised.
Modern OS X and things you take for granted that do use CPU power, like viewing your photos.
If you wanted to sync your photo library over to that computer so you could take it with you and look at it on vacation or add to it on vacation or do even basic operations on photos that you take on vacation, even if they're just photos from your phone, not from a fancy camera...
that actually does use CPU power on the Mac and it actually is noticeably, annoyingly slow on that computer for a lot of cases.
So again, it's just like this computer, if what you want is a decently speedy computer that you're not going to ever notice is that slow, this is not the computer for you because it will always be slow.
It can't be fast relative to the rest of the lineup with that kind of thermal headroom limitation.
This is the part of the program where I willfully refuse to look up the Geekbench numbers for this quote-unquote slow MacBook and compare them to the 2008 Mac Pro that I'm sitting in front of that's the size of a suitcase.
Don't want to know.
Moving on.
Just for reference, I'm pretty sure it'll probably kill you on single-threaded, but I think you have at least double the multi-threaded.
Let's not discuss.
What do you have?
The 2.66?
Is that it?
8-core 2.6?
I don't even remember.
2.8, right?
Let me see.
Something like that.
Yeah, no.
2.8.
All right.
8-core 2.8.
Mac Pro 2008.
Oh, no.
Don't look it up.
What are you doing?
What did you think he was doing, John?
You shouldn't have answered that question.
Come on.
I don't want to know.
It feels fast.
I have all the storage.
I've got a terabyte SSD.
Take that, MacBook.
Listen to you bargaining with yourself.
I have fast storage.
It's okay.
There's no terabyte SSD option in that thing, even though mine's hooked up to SATA and not PCI Express, but I don't want to think about that either.
At least it's one USB port.
It's USB 3.
You don't have that either.
Oh, yeah.
No, I don't have USB 3, but I don't care about that.
I have way more USB ports.
Oh, my goodness.
Anyway, while we send the chat room off to figure out how miserable John should be.
Oh, my God.
Your single-threaded is only 1,500 on that, Geekbench?
Shh.
Shh.
Don't listen.
That's terrible.
Don't listen.
Cover your many ear holes.
Our iMacs are 4,000.
Since the 2008 computer, give me a break.
It was fast when I got it.
The multi-threaded is respectable.
You got 10,000 on the multi-threaded.
That is respectable.
But 1,500 on single, like iPhones beat that now.
I think my new iPad is faster than this Mac Pro.
anyway bumper sounds i put this in there because oh my apology last show yes last show marco talked about the bumper sounds and we discussed the the startup chimes he used and he said he wanted to use the windows xp usb thing but didn't because i wouldn't like it and what did he do in the next show he used the usb uh sound from windows xp and guess what
I don't like it.
They're wonderful.
And guess what?
Everyone else loves it.
Everyone else does.
Not everyone else.
The Windows users like it.
They're like, oh, Windows, I remember that.
That's great.
Of course they're going to like it.
It has nothing to do with that.
The problem is it's just what Marco said.
I guess it was last episode.
It was just what Marco said.
It's a perfect mirror image.
It's doo-doo and doo-doo.
It's perfect.
But they're bad sounds and they're from Windows and they're from Windows XP for crying out loud.
Oh, come on.
Here's what the Windows XP sounds did.
They made me like the startup chime sounds better, like by comparison, even though I thought the startup chimes that he chose were not the ones that I would have picked.
At least they were Apple sounds and they weren't from Windows and they weren't.
No, I do not like them.
I do not like the Windows XP.
This is not the Apple tech podcast.
It's the accidental tech podcast.
And we have accidentally... Yes, but we talk about Apple all the time and none of us even use Windows anymore.
And no.
Well, but we have accidentally backed into the perfect ad bumper sounds.
Marco, I stand with you.
I'm in full support.
They're not the perfect ad bumper sounds.
They're terrible.
And Microsoft is going to come and sue you anyway.
I think Windows XP might be so old that it might be public domain.
What is it?
Death of the author plus 75 years?
It gets something like that, right?
It's close.
How old is Windows XP?
Doesn't Brian Eno do those sounds?
Brian Eno did some Windows sounds, maybe just for Windows 95.
He's still alive.
Oh, goodness.
Well, I like them.
Now, I don't want to get sued for Into Oblivion, but I do like them.
We're not going to get sued.
Anyway, I'm filing a formal protest against the Windows XP USB sounds as ad bumpers.
So listeners, feel free to tweet at Syracusa about how much you love the XP sounds because we all do.
The only way they're going to go away is if we have better alternatives.
So people should come up with high-quality recordings that are better alternatives that are either from Apple or from whole cloth that are not related to Windows.
Or from Phish, maybe.
I would accept fish more than Windows.
Well, and also, much of the complaining about the other sounds I picked, the old Mac sounds, is that they were kind of too jarring.
Yeah, I agree.
Windows sound design is always made to be so universally pleasing, so everybody feels nothing.
The Windows sounds are the sound equivalent of the paintings in hotel rooms.
You notice that it is nice when there's sound there, but you don't notice the sound, and it offends nobody, it's completely bland, and it's fine.
I think the login sound is offensive.
You know the login sound?
Oh, yeah...
i don't know the one where you log in and the big ugly windows xp uh green grass desktop greets you well i thought login was like and then the log out was right yeah maybe i'm remembering it the wrong way but anyway i think some of the windows sounds are offensive and i think the usb sound like it shouldn't be making any sound when you plug in a usb device and i don't like those sounds
thumbs down well i'm not going to get into it but so if i the usb stack on os 10 is is not as good as the window like you can't just unplug a usb stick even though i've been using it with the usb stack i guess it did with like buffered io like you can do flush io on every single io operation and just look wait till the light's not blinking and yank it out that's barbaric come on
Why not just go back to drive ladders?
I tell you what, the one thing that drives Windows converts crazy anytime I talk to one, and it drives me kind of crazy too, is having to unmount drives.
It drives people.
What do you mean I have to eject it?
What are you talking about?
but that's how a modern io system works you don't flush everything disc on every operation that would be crazy pants you have a buffer and you have to flush that buffer and you you have to know when it's safe to eject something and how do you know how do you know when it's safe i mean going back to the old unix days type you know sink twice because it's voodoo and the second time really counts and then you can unmount your thing because then you'll know all the bits have made their way to the disc
Oh, goodness.
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wwdc is going to be a little bit different this year um i'm probably not going to know about it in nor will marco i'm sorry i'll compose myself um there's going to be a different location for monday we are going to be at the bill graham auditorium which we briefly made mention of earlier this is a change from at least before 2011 i mean like i said i've been going since 2011 marco since 09 is that right
Yeah.
No, I mean, they've never done something like this in San Francisco as far as, you know, like they used to mean back.
If you go back far enough and if you include Macworlds, then they have like, you know, things in Boston and everything.
But that was all before our time.
Right.
So Monday, the way Mondays typically work in the past was you would line up absurdly early outside of Moscone, which is where the conference is.
You would be let in uncomfortably close to the time of the keynote, usually anyway, and
You would walk up to three or you would migrate your way up to the third floor, which is where the keynote was.
Then there would be a mad stampede into the keynote room.
There'd be the keynote.
Everyone would get punted downstairs to eat.
And then you would come back up and you would watch the developer State of the Union, which was kind of like a keynote, but for nerdier types.
And then Tuesday through Friday was just regular conference time.
This year, apparently on Monday, it's all going to be in the Bill Graham Auditorium.
And actually, even the check-in on Sunday, the way it always used to work was you could check in in Moscone on Sunday.
Now that check-in is apparently at the Bill Graham Auditorium on Sunday.
And then all day Monday is at the auditorium.
That's where the keynote will be.
That's where the State of the Union will be.
Is there anything else that evening?
I feel like there's one other thing.
um ada's right apple design awards that's right um that's going to be on monday night all at bill graham auditorium and then the thing that used to be called the beer beer bash now i guess it's called the wwdc bash um that used to be at yerba buena gardens which is this like uh park just a couple of blocks from moscone now that's also going to be at the bill graham auditorium so it's not gonna be outdoors anymore and um it's gonna be off-site again as well well further off-site anyway
And this is all a bit of a change.
And there was a funny tweet by a friend of the show, Craig Hockenberry.
I don't know if he is being snarky or not, because I don't know enough about San Francisco, but it reads as follows.
Seriously, do not take a direct route from your WWDC hotel to Bill Graham.
Get onto Market Street and pay attention from Powell to the Civic Center.
Uh, apparently because that area, which is, I guess the tenderloin, I'm sorry, San Franciscans, um, is a little bit rough.
So there's transportation for the beer bash or the WWDC bash.
I don't believe there's any for, um, the keynote on Monday.
Yeah, the bigger venue makes sense in terms of wanting more press like they did with the watch event.
We just invite everybody.
Sure, come out.
We will accept your coverage and we need more room for you.
So it's WWC attendees and tons and tons of press.
Come look at whatever it is we're going to announce.
State of the Union.
i feel like i mean the only reason they're holding it there is because that's where the keynote is you're not gonna make everybody move from one location to the other but i imagine a lot of the crowd will disappear once they bring the engineering people up and start uh talking about techie stuff uh the bash i don't know why that's not outdoors it's kind of nice when it was outdoors i mean
they had weird food and the band was kind of a mess because like half the crowd we pay attention to the band the other half will be trying to hear each other over the sound of the band i mean that's i think that's generous like that's for me like the bash has always been uncomfortable because you have a band on one side and usually you know it's a band that like the people there usually have heard of the band at least many of them have heard of the band or at least their popular song like they oh yeah i know that one song
But the people who are there are not there for the band.
It's all the WBDC attendees there mostly to talk to each other.
And so you have this band off on one side playing on the stage, playing mostly to people's backs...
And there's this huge open area in front of the stage where nobody wants to stand because everyone's trying to get away from the band so they can hear each other talk.
So the band is playing to effectively a bunch of people who would rather they turn the volume down and stop.
Yeah.
It's a terrible gig for the band.
It is so awkward, and I feel so bad.
The band will finish a song, and there will be literally four people near them clapping, and everyone else just dead silent.
It's not that bad.
Sometimes bands do have a little group of fans who are close by who are actually into it.
The band is a separate thing, but I feel like the people who are not there for the band, their needs are not served much better than the band.
When I think about it being in Bill Graham Auditorium,
if there's going to be a band there's no way to run from that band there's nowhere to hide like you're just yeah to me that's why like i'm curious about this because it sounds like that would make all the problems worse yeah well no it would might eliminate the problem in terms of if the only reason you would possibly go to it is if you want to see the band because you're not going to be able to have any discussion with anybody in the giant auditorium with a huge sound system it's not i mean it's like when you two played at the watch event it's not like people were having conversations in the back of the room you couldn't hear yourself think
Yeah, I don't know.
We'll see how it goes.
How great would it be if the band was U2 and they only played Songs of Innocence?
That's not a bad album, you know, first of all.
I had a feeling.
The single they chose to play off at the Watch event, eh, you know, not the best song.
Anyway, it's not going to be U2 again.
But if it was, I would go.
I didn't even go to the bash last year.
I don't think I've seen you there in several years now.
Yeah, I usually have conflicts with other things.
The times I've gone to the bash, I have enjoyed it.
We've hid way in the back, and you go from circle of people to circle of people, and you yell really loud until your voices don't give out.
But it's the one time I feel like I get to see...
everybody because everybody you know all the people i know are hiding in the back in little clusters and i can find them whereas during the conference if you happen to pick the same session as somebody you see where they're sitting you can talk to them briefly before after but the bash is you know it's a gathering of people and it's like the end of the conference and i have fond memories of the few years that i uh that i went there uh it's just not not ideal for the purpose that i would like to use it for
I think most people are there to socialize.
They're not there to see a band.
It was crowded in there.
Trying to walk through and get from one side to the other or to get to the food things or to leave or to enter.
It was such a crowd.
It was like walking through Times Square.
You're trying to wedge between people to weave through.
It was always very densely packed, at least in recent years.
Just look for Craig Hockenberry's head and navigate based on that.
It's so true.
For those who don't know, Craig Hockenberry is approximately 13 feet tall.
How about that?
So the bash is going to be at Bill Graham.
I don't know.
That's a weird setup, like you guys said.
And I do feel for the bands that play the bash because they usually...
Whether or not you like the music, generally speaking, the bands are good, and they're typically up-and-coming bands.
But just like Marco said, it's the worst gig in the world because at least half, if not three-quarters of the audience has their back to you because they are not paying attention to you at all.
They just want to talk, and God, I feel for them.
It was the lottery again this year.
Obviously, I have very mixed feelings about it.
Well, no, I don't have mixed feelings about it.
I'm very sad at the way the lottery turned out, selfishly speaking.
Wait, I just got in.
Seriously?
Yeah, I just got the email.
See, I told you.
25th you have until.
Nothing for me.
Sorry, Casey.
That's okay.
So yeah, so the lottery, generally speaking, I think I'm pretty heavily in favor of it.
It's the least crappy alternative I think that we have.
And we talked about this around a year ago.
I don't think I'm going to spend the time to dig up what episode or episodes it was in the show notes.
It might have even been two years ago when this was a new thing.
But anyways, I do think even as someone who, as we record now, still does not have a ticket, I do think it's the most fair way of doing things.
And I am in support of it.
Because even though I appreciated...
being Johnny on the spot back when there was at least a moment to order.
I just laugh because whenever I hear anybody say Johnny on the spot, I can only think of the brand of portable toilet of that name that was all over my baseball field in my youth.
Okay.
I don't even know what to make of that.
So when you say, I was jogging the spot.
No, that's not how I perceive that phrase.
Well, in any case, I was very quick to order a ticket back when you had some amount of control over such things.
And I do think that in the grand scheme of things, the lottery is the best way to do it.
One other idea that I heard about Billy Graham being a larger venue is that they are anticipating a fall off in terms of attendance and potentially could invite more people.
I have no idea if this is true, but this is a theory that I heard like so say they can invite 5000 people because that's what Moscone holds.
5,000 people go to the keynote instead of the union.
And then the next day comes and 4,000 people show up to go to sessions for the rest of the week.
Right.
So if you have a larger venue for Billy Graham, you could have for the keynote, you could have invite more people and expect kind of like how you expect like no shows or whatever, you know, restaurant reservations, like essentially overbook it.
Yeah.
to account for the fact that a lot of people are just going to go to the first day's festivities and will not appear every single day for the rest of the conference that is a theory i heard i don't put much stock in it but it is another potential benefit getting back to the lottery like how do you deal with the fact that more people want to come than can go you can move it to a different city to a bigger venue you can use more of moscone um maybe this is like a weird hybrid solution we'll see
also i think uh so billy graham versus bill graham i assume this is different right because you keep saying billy graham that's very different i think this is i this is somebody else right yeah i'm misspeaking in my typical way please please autocorrect what i'm saying to the place where the wwc keynote is being held if i had said the wrong place just pretend i didn't say that pretend i said the right thing
it appears that bill graham was a concert promoter and that's probably who the who the auditorium was named after right and then billy graham is uh is was not not a concert his friends could have called him billy you don't know oh goodness okay i don't even know where to go from here
In any case, the other thing that was interesting was I don't recall how this was last year because I did get a ticket last year, but I'll find out this year.
Check your email.
I don't know.
Just keep hitting refresh.
Yeah, that's totally going to work.
If it makes you feel better, I also just got the email from Tesla advertising all the new features of the Model S that my car doesn't have.
Oh, that makes me feel marginally better.
But they're going to be broadcasting.
Actually, let me read the quote from the website.
We will be live streaming sessions daily and posting videos of all our sessions throughout the week of the conference.
Did they live stream anything other than like Monday last year?
I had thought they were very, very quick on the turnaround, but I don't recall them live streaming regular sessions.
Is that true?
Live streaming, that means they've opened the door to streakers.
Thousands of developers around the world are watching, learning about Core Foundation, and then all of a sudden, from the corner, runs right across the stage.
Oh, my God.
I don't even know where to go from here either.
Was that guy English?
Of all the people who I've seen comment on the fact that they're live streaming this year, this concern is unique to you, John.
well no it's kind of like the same way like they got rid of the q a meant it used to be that the end of the sessions they would have q a and they got rid of that for it was just not constructive use of everyone's time it was terrible because you know what q a's are like but on the other hand sometimes you got some amusing or interesting questions uh there was the time they bailed on the q a about the app store because people were really angry and they didn't want to deal with that so they just ended it and then you know so like q a is another example where you don't know what you're going to get you have a prepared uh presentation and you give it
and then anything can happen and when you're there wwc sometimes people yell something out from the audience that's funny that doesn't make it into the video because they edited it out or they edit out the little aside usually people being excited about a new api or a new parameter or something very nerdy like that this is one of the unique benefits of being there in person anyway if they live stream it and someone was to yell something out in the audience uh then that would make it to the live stream but probably not to the recorded one that they edit down
Oh, definitely.
I mean, like, the recorded ones, they edit out, like, applause and laughter.
And, like, any little tiny slip-up, they edit that out, too.
Like, the recorded ones, they are extremely unfun.
Yeah, I agree.
Anything else on WWDC?
Enjoy, you two.
you're you're gonna get in plenty of time you got three days casey three whole days for apple pr to listen to this podcast yeah i'm sure all apple pr wants to do is listen to the accidental tech podcast that's that's how they spend their saturday night what else they have to do with their time well actually it's not even gonna be released yeah marco you gotta release this tomorrow give me a chance here okay i'm just kidding
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John, while you were on vacation in California, forgetting what reality was, you bought some new hardware.
I got to buy it in the official Apple store.
I don't know what you call it.
It's the one at one infinite loop.
They have a little Apple store there.
The company store.
I'm told that it used to look very different, but now it just looks like a regular Apple store.
I think it used to have like racks of clothes in it and stuff.
And you can buy like mugs and silly things like that.
I don't know.
I never went to it.
is that all gone i've only seen the old one i haven't seen the new one yeah the new one just looks like an apple store it's a bunch of tables it's got a big screen on two of the walls it's really neat have you seen what these screens i don't know how they work it's like a cloth type thing i assume it's rear projection or something uh anyway can you still buy t-shirts and stuff they do have t-shirts they're they're displayed very strangely they're like stretched over these little rectangles so you can't tell that they're shirts you just have to assume that the fabric stretched into that rectangle shape has sleeves and a place for your head to come out and stuff
uh but yeah you can buy t-shirts in fact someone i saw someone there buying a lot of t-shirts uh and i was just adding up how much they must cost because each one of those t-shirts is surely like 30 bucks or something anyway oh yeah they're not they're not well priced i meant to buy it uh buy something before i left but as the date approach you're worried that the shipping is going to come and you're going to be on a plane i'm like you know what i'm going there uh i'm i can just go to apple and get it so i did
um i got myself a uh normal size ipad pro and a pencil and the the smart cover and i got the back silicone cover thing as well um and i also got a replacement ipad for my son he got the air uh this was his combined birthday present with a bunch of other things replacing his ipad too that he's destroyed utterly destroyed so
hopefully now that he's older and a little bit wiser he will not utterly destroy this ipad but it'll be a big upgrade from his non-retina ipad 2 that he's been using um but the pro i mean as you would imagine upgrading from an ipad 3 is fantastic everything is fast and beautiful and the screen is amazing i left true tone on i you know i tried the little demo of an on and off
I was worried that it would bother me, that I would notice, but I don't, and I think it's great, and I think that screen is amazing, and I'm really happy about it.
The silicone back thing, I don't know what you call it, the case, that's the only question mark.
I have it on now.
It's only the back, so it's not the front.
The smart cover I have on the front.
The back and the front fit together really nicely.
But I mean, which looks neat when it's all closed up, but it makes it harder to open.
You have to sort of find where the edge is.
This doesn't, you know, with a smart cover, you can kind of do that smart cover thing that I think everyone unconsciously does where you can slide out the smart cover slightly to get it poking off the edge of the iPad and then pull it up with your thumb.
You know what I'm talking about?
With the case, it kind of seats together and it's a little bit harder to get the edge.
And when you're holding it, of course, there's a little lip around the whole thing.
and i'm of two minds on the lip it is bad and that it's you know it's a little ridge where once it was smooth but it is good coming from the ipad 3 and that i wish the borders around the ipad were a little bit bigger for thumb gripping and that little ridge gives an extra grippy area to make up for the fact that the sides when held in portrait orientation are not as wide um
And also, it doesn't block the speakers.
There are little holes in the case for the four speakers to come out.
But I wonder if it's affecting the audio quality.
Although, the audio quality is, again, so much better than this stupid one little tinny speaker on my iPad 3.
It's amazing.
I heartily recommend not upgrading your iOS device for however many years.
I kept that iPad 3 because, wow, what an upgrade.
Well, you've also, like, if you look at the iPad lineup in retrospect...
They're all pretty good.
There really weren't any bad iPads.
But if you had to pick one as the worst iPad ever released, it's the iPad 3.
I would say the iPad 4.
I think the iPad 4 is worse, because here's why.
No, what?
The iPad 4 was the iPad 3, but with a faster processor and the lightning port, right?
Yeah, but you had to wait later to get that.
You got the iPad 3.
It was the first Retina one, and you feel like I waited.
That's what I did.
I waited a really long time.
I wasn't going to buy them when they're Retina, and I bought it when it was Retina.
When the 4 came out, I didn't feel bad because one came out that was slightly faster and had a lightning port.
I felt good that I had the Retina one while for the three months people were waiting for the 4.
And the battery life has been great.
And, like, I mean, the iPad 3 is a great iPad, I feel like.
Yes, it was big and it was hot, but... Yeah, but, you know, as I said, like, none of the iPads have been really bad.
But just, like, you know, if you had to pick one as the worst, I think everybody would agree the iPad 3 was the worst of these pretty good products.
I would pick the Mini with the two internals, I think, was worse because you have to account for the time that it was released.
The Mini with the two internals was released after the two, but it was as slow as the two, and it was non-retina, and I think that was the dog of the iPad line.
Anyway, I've enjoyed my iPad 3.
It served me well.
It's a reasonable counterargument.
It served me well, but I think this iPad is going to go down as one of the really good ones because it is...
it's very impressive and it's a big step up from the other ones i haven't really used the pencil yet so i don't know i don't know what i'm gonna use the pencil for i'm debating trying to use it for navigation now that all the people fought for my right to use it for navigation uh all right well maybe i'll try it for that i just bought it because i mean i've used it in the store and everything i know what it's like um but i just bought it because it supports it and i'll surely find something to do with it and if not i'll have this neat little accessory um
yeah i'm enjoying it oh and what i didn't enjoy was itunes nobody enjoys itunes i brought my ipad 3 with me on the trip expecting to do it a full encrypted itunes backup and then plug in the new ipad and restore my encrypted itunes backup onto it and so basically just what i had in my ipad 3 now is on my new ipad pro
That seems like it should work.
It has worked for me in the past.
I did the backup from the iPad 3 to the computer that I brought with me, and that worked fine.
And then I tried to restore onto the iPad Pro, and that did not work fine.
It would take a really long time.
Halfway through, an error would occur.
Then the iPad Pro would reboot.
Uh, and I tried it many different times and many different permutations across reboots, restarting both devices, trying different techniques to, you know, redoing the backups.
I mean, it just never worked.
I spent many, many hours trying to get iTunes to restore into this.
I had to eventually resort to an iCloud backup and everyone knows what that's like.
You lose half your stuff that you had there.
I had to re-sign into all my Slack things.
You don't get any of your passwords saved, so you have to re-enter all that information.
And it takes a year and a day to put all your apps back on.
So...
good old iTunes uh screwed me one last time and we'll continue to because like the next time I get an iOS device if if I have a choice between doing an encrypted backup and getting all those things and doing it the iCloud way with the current limitations I'll still try the iTunes way but agreed that was not fun well I'm glad you got the new hardware and I'm glad you like it I mean you've been waiting a long long long time did you get LTE
I did.
On Verizon?
Or did you just get the Apple SIM one?
You don't have a choice when you buy it.
You just say with cellular.
And that's what you get.
You get with cellular.
And so mine has cellular.
And during the setup, it was trying to tell me, hey, hook it up to it.
But I'm like, you know, I'll add it to my Verizon account when I go.
to wwc which people may ask me why would you bother doing that doesn't every place have wi-fi and you have an iphone uh every place does have wi-fi but wi-fi is not made to support 3 000 nerds with a million devices and so the wi-fi is usually not particularly healthy um tethering in my experience has not worked particularly reliably uh the most reliable way to get any kind of internet access in the middle of moscone anyway with a bunch of other nerds in my experience has been verizon
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.
I've had, I think, four iPads, and the prior one to this one and the one I got for Christmas, both of them have been with cellular, and I couldn't agree with you more that that's the way to do it in general.
I mean, it is like $130 more money, so it is fairly expensive, but I really prefer to have...
An onboard cellular connection, if I so desire, even in general, just even outside WWDC.
And then when you're in WWDC, holy crap, it's so much better being on any cellular network than it is being on the WWDC Wi-Fi, particularly keynote day.
But I'm not going to have to worry about that this year.
You don't know that.
You don't know.
Well, also, in so many ways, it just makes sense to kind of bring your own connection places.
Not only is it generally more consistent and more reliable, it's also more secure.
Like, you know, you don't have to join somebody's crazy Wi-Fi.
I mean, you know, if you're using some kind of VPN software, that's a little bit different.
But like most people and, you know, we like to think that everything is done over HTTPS, but it's not still.
There's still a lot of things that aren't.
So I think for most people, using a tethered connection is way more secure than using some hotel Wi-Fi or something.
Yeah.
All righty.
Well, any other thoughts on your new hardware?
My color choices for the case were kind of difficult.
I've been going with kind of gray or black in the past, and I almost did it again, but I decided to go with midnight blue this time.
I wish there were other colors that were more exciting.
I really do like the red, but my wife has claimed the red, and so due to avoid in-house confusion, in-house iOS device confusion, I've been kicked out of red.
which is exactly what i would buy i wish there was like a a better blue that looked more blue but i went with the midnight blue so at least it's not black like of course i got the the uh space gray device but you can't see any of the space gray because it's all in a case now yeah why did you get the silicon case it seems so peculiar to me i've never had a back case on any of my ipads
Neither have I. This isn't the first one, but it's so much thinner than the iPad 3, as you can imagine.
And I like the idea of a little bit of extra protection and a little bit of extra grip.
And so far, my problems are not around back.
My problems are the ridge and opening it.
And I'll see.
If it annoys me, I'll take it off and lesson learned.
But so far, I'm keeping it in there.
And I kind of like it.
Space gray in front, party in the back.
No, it's not space gray in the front.
You messed that up.
It's black in the front.
Ha ha ha!
Oh, my God.
Wow.
So I'm curious.
So, you know, if you're a beer person, you have undoubtedly heard from somebody who has ever drank beer before that, oh, well, you have to go have Guinness at the Guinness Brewery in Ireland.
It's so much better there.
And honestly, having done that, I think it's about the same.
Then please don't email me all of Ireland.
But...
I wonder, like, should the iPad that you buy at One Infinite Loop at the company store, should that be, like, a little bit better than all their iPads?
Should it be, like, should it, like, you know, smell fresher?
Or should it be, like, 5% faster or something?
don't you feel like you should have gotten something special oh yeah no the cpu the cpu is five megahertz faster yeah yeah didn't tell you that no mine has four gigs of ram no i think it's about the same and the only difference is i think the apple store was a little bit less crowded when i went in like when i when i got in there i feel like wow this is actually you know pretty empty for an apple store but by the time i was done with my transaction and picking everything out and getting everything everything all packaged up
that store was mob so i think i just came before the rush yeah well a lot of times like they'll have like tour buses that stop there yeah i don't know what well i did see a company tour like it was a bunch of people in suits i think they were being led around by someone from apple like we have them at our place too important people come and they want to show them like on a big tour and all the people are all dressed up like they're executives from some other other company so i saw one group like that and then just a bunch of other people that came in a big mob after me
The other advantage is that the parking lots at Apple are filled with interesting cars.
Both the visitor parking lots and the employee parking lots are filled with very interesting cars.
Much more interesting cars than at the Natick Mall.
Sorry, Natick Mall.
Or the Chestnut Hill Mall, for that matter.
Wow.
Yeah, but lots of hybrids, lots of electric vehicles.
One of the ones, did I take a picture of it and show you?
The hybrid Panamera?
No, I don't think you did.
It could have been one of those $260,000 models.
It's all black with fancy wheels.
Just tons of neat cars.
Excellent.
Yeah, I've never been to Infinite Loop.
I have always had something else to do back when they used to do the buses at WWDC, like not the official Apple ones.
There was a group of people that would organize a bus trip down to Infinite Loop.
And I just always had something else to do.
I always visited with a good friend of mine.
And so I've never, ever, ever been.
And Marco, you said you've been.
John, obviously, you just went.
And I'm kind of jealous.
I'd like to see it sometime.
Especially before it goes away forever.
Those were organized by a friend of everybody, Jeff LaMarche.
He organized those pilgrimage bus tours.
I don't know if anybody still does that.
But yeah, those were kind of fun.
Yeah, it's not like it's going away.
But once Campus 2 opens up, I imagine a lot of the important things that are currently at One Infinite Loop will be moved to Campus 2.
Like Tim Cook's office is somewhere there at One Infinite Loop.
And I assume he'll move to Campus 2, as will many other people.
Maybe the Apple Store will move.
I don't know.
But this is the last moments that One Infinite Loop is the face of Apple.
Hopefully I'll get to see it sometime.
Well, potentially I'll have a lot of free time that week, so maybe I'll rent a car and go check it out.
Oh, I'm sad again.
Thank you a lot to our three sponsors this week, Betterment, Ring, and Fracture, and we will see you next week.
And you can find the show notes at atp.fm.
And if you're into Twitter, you can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S.
So that's Casey Liss, M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-A-R-C-O-R-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M-E-N-T-M
Did you reload your email app?
I've been looking at my bank and then telling myself, you're just jinxing it.
Stop looking.
Waiting five minutes.
Looking again.
You're jinxing yourself.
Stop looking.
Why are you jinxing yourself?
Stop jinxing yourself.
exactly stop hitting yourself stop jinxing yourself just stop all the things and no no dice sad casey is sad so if you want to have a bit of a neutral unless we have something else to talk about i'm talking about my bagel post oh yeah first of all yeah so we have to cover your bagel post so john you blogged for the first time in how long over a year slightly over a year
okay the content of your blog post is a bulleted list can you explain this blog post please so on this podcast it's not called developing perspective and not called under the radar but is called top four
Some people, one of whom is here, talked about their top four bagel varieties or flavors.
And I listened to this podcast on the way out to San Francisco.
I thought I had prepared myself for this podcast.
One person involved in the podcast grew up on Long Island like I did.
And the other person was Marco.
But I felt like I was ready.
I was not ready for the list that would appear.
I could not have predicted these lists.
They were just more upsetting and fantastical and unexpected than I could have imagined.
I paid for the in-flight Wi-Fi just so I could complain to Marco directly about this podcast.
And I vowed that when I got done with this vacation, I was going to blog again.
And what I was going to blog was a list of canonical bagel flavors.
And that's exactly what I did.
I made a blog post that lists the canonical bagel flavors.
And I feel like this needed to be done for posterity, that Google will spider it, that archive.org will archive it somewhere, that someday aliens will dig up our civilization when we're long gone and find this blog post that is succinct to the point, not a lot of dancing around.
It's just a list that lists the canonical bagel flavors.
And I feel much better having done it.
And yes, it happens to be about a year since last time.
Yeah, so obviously I have some nitpicks here.
The flavors you've listed are noticeably missing some of the ones that we mentioned during our show.
And there are some that we even said during the show were not canonical old school bagels like the Asiago cheese bagel.
You know, that's...
i don't think you need to say old school here's here's i didn't want to put a lot of commentary in this because i don't think it's necessary for the post but for the purposes of the podcast there is a distinction to be made between this is not a bagel versus this is a canonical bagel flavor you understand like the distinction like the sort of uh you know well let's let's make up i'm trying to make up one that doesn't actually exist and i don't know if i'm going to succeed but let's say the cheesecake bagel is not a bagel i guarantee that exists somewhere in the midwest
someone is making that right but there are bagels on this list that are bagels that are just not among the canonical bagel flavors there were some difficult decisions to make i'm not gonna lie i thought i was gonna rattle this thing off push came to shove i had to make some very hard calls here that some people are upset about and i understand their upsetness the big one i feel like is garlic
garlic bagel is a bagel right oh yeah so just missed it just missed the well so so i'm curious so like you have obviously you have plain poppy sesame everything those for for bagel places those are always like the top four um that that dink that always not on your list not on your list mr asiago cheese so that was tiff sorry
by sales volume actually i bet i sugar cheese is up there for for stores that do sell it um especially those in the midwest but not a bagel by the way no it's still look so anyway there are some inconsistencies i think in your list so obviously plain poppy sesame uh everything those have to be on every bagel list for because just by sales volume people have voted and that's what always goes there that's not that's not how this list works this does not work by sales volume
Well, but so I'm curious, you've included onion and salt, but not garlic.
That seems inconsistent.
That's right.
It's a tough call.
If you go through this list, this list is like a little story, right?
It's an unordered list.
It's OL.
No, UL, right?
It's not OL.
It's UL, right?
It's an unordered list, but there is an order.
So I'm not playing as there, but it's not next to a number one, next to a bullet point.
But this is the reason it's at the top, right?
Yeah.
You start off and you feel like, you know, all right, plain, poppy, sesame.
And I spent a long time thinking about whether poppy or sesame would come second, right?
Egg, cinnamon, raisin, which Marco keeps admitting for some strange reason.
It's further down the list.
And by sales volume, by the way, I think sesame outdoes poppy.
that's not the sales volume does not factor into this i think sales volume it would be plain everything sesame poppy it depends on where where it's being sold and who's buying all right so cinnamon raisin throws things off a little bit and then you've got everything and you got egg everything why is egg everything why is egg everything even on this list why is it not next to egg why is it under everything why does cinnamon raisin come between it
I was going to nitpick your inclusion of egg everything as well, because I don't think, on a list that's this restrictive and this short, I don't think egg everything belongs on that list.
I know, but like, so here's, I spent a long time, I spent the whole vacation thinking about this, right?
Why is egg everything on the list and garlic is not?
It just, this is what it comes down to.
These are the canonical flavors.
Garlic does not make the cut.
Egg everything does.
Egg everything is the most borderline.
If I had to delete one, I would delete egg everything.
right if i had to make the list one shorter uh but no but this is it onion onion makes it salt make it pumpernickel people don't talk about pumpernickel but it's there i talked about pumpernickel you got to talk about rye which i said the rye family of flavors which includes you can't like in your typical one i'm trying to pick 17 different bagels for your item number four pumpernickel is a rye i know but you have to pick one
It includes rye, marble, and pumpernickel in the rye family of bagels.
Because most places don't have all three of those.
And so if I want that, I will pick whichever one of those they have that looks the best.
You also pick the one that you didn't know the name of, which was like the one with oats on the outside that's brown...
yeah what is that called according to you even though it isn't on this list apparently unless it's called egg everything the reason it's not a list it doesn't have a name some people call it multi-grain some people call it like wheat or grain like that it's not even no it's it's not like the list
Does not make the list.
I have a question.
What is it that makes bagels in New York and Montreal, although Montreal is a loose definition of bagel, what is it that makes both of those bagels so good?
Uh... I...
I don't know.
There's been a lot of research about this.
Is it the water?
Is it the starter?
I mean, obviously, this is the basic cooking technique.
If you don't boil your bagels, you're not making bagels.
Just forget it.
They're totally off the rails there.
I mean, this is recipe ingredients and preparation and caring about what you make.
I mean, like think about Lenders bagels, like Lenders bagels are supermarket bagels made in techniques that that have to scale up to huge volumes.
Real bagels, they make them in the morning and you come and buy them.
And as Marco pointed out on the show, if you come in the afternoon, they're not as good.
And that's just the kind of product is you're not going to ship it in a truck across the country frozen.
Like it's just it's not going to be the same thing.
I don't know why Montreal has a particular bagel culture, but it's like bread.
Why is bread good in some places?
Why do you have bad supermarket bread and some bakeries have really good bread?
And the bakeries have really good bread.
Where do you get that bread and when?
It's the time of day and they make it every day.
And that's what it comes down to.
You're wrong.
All right.
Here's the thing.
The chat room is wrong.
You're wrong.
I'm really disappointed in everyone.
Though the origins of bagels are somewhat obscure, says the origin of truth Wikipedia, it is known that they were widely consumed in the Eastern European Jewish communities from the 17th century.
The reason that New York bagels and Montreal air quote bagels air quote are so good is because of the significant Jewish population in both of those cities.
Of the three of us, I think we can unequivocally decide which one of us is the most Jewish of the three of us, and that is yours truly.
And the fact that you two are arguing about something that you are completely unqualified to discuss, I just think is hysterical.
False.
You didn't grow up in New York, the New York metro area.
You know nothing about bagels, Jon Snow.
Really?
No, nothing about them.
It doesn't come as part of your genetics.
You don't make bagels for a living, and even if you did, you don't make them in the New York metro area.
People who know food know it from where they grow up with it.
That's where the knowledge of the food comes from and not from any sort of not in your DNA.
And never mind like the heritage.
It's like me claiming to know stuff about Italian food.
I know nothing about Italian food.
I've never been to Italy.
I know Italian American food because I'm Italian American.
And those immigrants came to where I grew up and they sold food there.
And I fully expect the New York metro area bagels had nothing to do with whatever bagels you're talking about in the 17th century from Europe.
Who knows what those were like?
All I know is what they're like in the New York metro area.
John, you forget that I spent a large portion of my childhood, either in New York State or in Connecticut, literally so close to New York, I could walk and get there.
That's how close it was.
Yeah, that's what people who are not in the New York metro area say about it.
I was in Connecticut.
That's like New York.
We have Frank Pepe's.
It's just no.
So two things.
Number one, I think all of our cultural backgrounds aside, I think this is one of those things where you have to pull a GIF slash George Lucas and just say, you know what, even though academically you should be right on this, you're not.
And secondly, only one of us still lives in the New York metro area.
yeah well marco the only thing you can lord over us marco is that you have access to good bagels and i and believe me i am sufficiently jealous of that believe me and sometimes when we discuss you know like when you were talking about like what if marco would ever move someplace other than new york and i would say why would he do that he
would be leaving behind pizza and bagels why would he ever move i would hate you so much if you ever move because i'd be like you're throwing it away you've got it right there you've got a house you've got a tesla got a kid you got bagels and pizza why would you ever go any oh self-employment tax blah blah blah no just it's worth it for the bagels
There's a reason I still tolerate all of New York's BS, because I like a lot of the stuff here.
Believe me, New York has no shortage of BS and hostility that encourages people to flee.
But those of us who are still here, which is one of us, are here for good reasons.
Good, round, malted reasons.
To make it so that no one who listens to this podcast actually has to go to this blog post.
After the list, it says, also, Bialy's.
yeah which i i have no problem including bialis although i'm not sure i would call the the biali a bagel flavor it's not it says also it's a separate list also bialis yeah but the title of the entire post is canonical bagel flavors and includes list and then it says these are the canonical bagel flavors and it gives a list and then it says also bialis it's trying to say also bialis exist and they are good
wow oh my god they are good although i'm not so sure about your supermarket bialis i feel like something's up here you should next time you're here i'll have you try one you can tell me how it compares i have had bialis from like good bagel bakeries and stuff and they're good too but the supermarket ones i think are just better than the ones i've had now granted i haven't looked very hard at like what's the best biali in westchester or the city i haven't looked that hard but
the Bialis I've had at bagel places have not been substantially better or better at all than the ones I get from my local grocery store.
Now, I know that's probably, I'm probably missing something big here because that shouldn't be the case.
I mean, maybe they're buying them from a local bagel place.
It could be the same.
You have to know where they're sourced from.
It could be the same thing.
It could be the bagel place that goes to the supermarket and sells them.
But anyway, I'm not a big fan of Bialis, but I always felt like when we would get bagels growing up, there'd be one or two Bialis turn in.
They'd get eaten.
It's just in the mix.
Where do we go from here?
How can we go to Marco's house and buy bagels?
What were we going to talk about the Tesla?
I was in a Tesla earlier today.
I just had a minor update, but it's not time sensitive.
Let's hear about your time in a Tesla.
Oh, it really was uneventful.
I went from work to my favorite local barbecue joint and then back.
And I was a passenger, but it was good.
Cool.
All right.
Were you in the back seat or front seat?
Yeah, I was in the front seat.
I fiddled with the comically, absurdly, ridiculously oversized touchscreen.
I learned that Tesla has its own like Pandora-esque service.
Well, no, it's Slacker.
Oh, whatever it is.
Okay.
I learned the web browser is being used by enterprising developers to make kind of sort of third-party mega air quotes, apps, mega air quotes.
Oh, the browser is terrible.
Yeah, but I forget what underscore had on his, but it was something that like integrated traffic and issue reporting from Waze with the onboard GPS because it just uses the HTML5 location API.
Yeah.
um and i i don't recall exactly what the url was i don't recall exactly what it was called but it would show a map with the stuff that ways reported and ways is very good about having up to the second accurate reports on traffic conditions and obstructions and police officers and things of that nature that's interesting so he he had that up on his web browser well he didn't have the web browser up at all but when i was fiddling with it while he was driving um that's the last thing it had up on his web browser that was pretty neat um i don't know it's it's impressive
Actually, I tried when I first got it.
I actually tried to see, like, can I use that as an overcast interface?
And the basic answer is no, because there is no ability for the browser to play audio.
I assume for safety or DOT regulations, they've disabled audio and video elements from playing in the built-in browser.
But video makes sense.
Audio, I don't think, does.
Because there's lots of other ways to play audio from the Internet in the Tesla.
So, I don't know.
Fair enough.
So what's your update?
So I wanted to put somewhere, and it was either going to be a blog post or here, and here is probably the better place for it, just the sheer difference in how other people seem to be perceiving me having a Tesla, like people in the world, my neighbors, things like that.
So, you know, coming from a loud black sporty BMW to a silent red environmental future car.
I feel like the way like so I know like I know immediately like my neighbors and the people on the block hated hearing my my loud car.
and they probably thought I was a jerk for driving it.
And even when I wasn't going fast, it sounded like I was going fast, and I would imagine that didn't win me any favors around the block.
And nobody ever commented, like if I was getting out of the car, or if somebody saw me in it with the windows down or in the parking lot, nobody ever commented positively about the BMW, except occasionally some dude in his 20s.
Hey, nice!
Something like that, but that would be it.
Car guys!
yeah guys look appreciatively i would i look at appreciatively at the m cars that i see sure yeah so do i still but anyway wait but people would make snarky comments about about the loudness of it or whatever absolutely yeah neighbors and yeah like you know it was it was noticed and was generally not appreciated by many of the people around it and and i just kind of like you just kind of get the feel like people think i'm a jerk by driving this car
You know, because you kind of seem like a jerk if you drive a loud.
You think the Tesla is helping with that?
Right.
So I expected, you know, this might be, you know, a little bit worse in some ways, especially because now it's red.
So it's more it's kind of more in your face.
uh but turns out the way people treat somebody driving a red tesla is way more positive than the way they treat people driving a loud black bmw uh not so first of all i have gotten so many questions from people about it this is this has been the biggest and this is kind of what i wanted to talk about it's like the the amount of questions i've gotten has been shocking and
and most of the questions are roughly in the in the same small group of buckets but what's interesting i think is just like when you're driving a loud black sports car even in an area like where i live there's lots of bmws but even in an area worth lots of lots of other black sports cars m5 is not a sports car point of order okay i i'm not sure i agree with that but okay you don't agree with that m the m5 is not a sports car it's a sports sedan
i don't agree with that yeah i don't know if coops cornered the market on good cars you guys can be happy to be wrong it is not a sports car that's fine although well but i tell you what whether or not it is a sports car and i know marco said this but i think i should double down on this like it is really loud like stunningly loud for a stock completely unmodified car and you could absolutely hear marco coming from several houses away if not like a block or two i think it's a block
And that's not even necessarily because he tends to drive quickly.
Just in general, like if you've heard a loud car and you're thinking to yourself, oh, yeah, whatever.
I've heard a loud car.
They're not that loud.
No, really.
This thing is very loud.
Or the M5 was very, very loud.
I like that.
It made a good sound on the outside.
Oh, me too.
Me too.
I'm not complaining.
I'm not complaining at all.
I'm just saying if you've never heard an M5, you'd be surprised about how loud it is.
Yeah, and all the M cars are tuned specifically to be loud.
The 1M was that loud.
All the M3s are that loud.
That's intentional.
So anyway, and I wouldn't choose that.
I didn't have it because it was loud.
I had it because it was fast.
And it just so happened that to get things that fast, you had to also get them loud because that's just the way they were sold because most people who buy them want them to be that loud.
Anyway.
So now I have this silent car that is, I guess, more friendly.
And so I'm getting tons of compliments on it from strangers oftentimes or people who have never commented about my car before.
Like when I get out of the parking lot, I'll have questions from people like, oh, is that –
What is that?
Is that electric?
Is that a Tesla?
So first of all, Tesla has a level of awareness in the public that is way higher than I expected.
It's almost like an Apple level of awareness.
The amount of questioning I get and the excitement people have over it is almost like when the iPhone first came out.
If you had the very first iPhone, people would see you with it and be like, oh my god, is that the iPhone?
And they start asking you a couple questions about it or they want to see it.
That's how people are with a Tesla.
Everyone seems to know, first of all, that there's a super fast one.
And so I always have to kind of say, no, I didn't get that one.
So they're always like, oh, is this the insane one?
No, I didn't get the insane one.
It's still a fast car.
I didn't get that one.
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
I know, right?
And then everyone also knows about autopilot.
like this and this was i just kind of surprised me i didn't think it made that big of a splash and or that it was that big of a deal but everyone's like it's just the one that can steer itself and again these are like not necessarily like car nerds it's like like regular people know and they're asking about this and they ask oh how do you how does it go on the highway can you fill it up you know like and some people ask you know how is there also a gas engine and blah blah so you know i'm just i'm doing a lot of explaining and like
I assume, like, if you were one of the people who had the first Prius, you know, I assume that you got a lot of questioning there.
Even if you had, like, one of the first electric vehicles that were pure electric, like the Nissan Leaf or something like that, like, I would imagine you'd occasionally get a question from somebody, like, if they saw you plugging it in, and so that would kind of call out that this is something different.
But this is, like, when I'm just driving around, everyone just is really curious about this car, and I'm getting so many questions.
The one thing that seems to blow people's mind the most... Well, two things.
Number one, how much space there is inside, if they look inside.
Number two, the big thing that blows everyone's mind is that superchargers are free.
Interesting.
That idea, it's just like how things being free kind of make people's brains explode.
I'm witnessing that.
Because they will inevitably ask, how do you do it on long highway drives?
Can you do it?
And I'll mention the superchargers.
And they always ask, oh, but how much does it cost to fill up with those?
And so, oh, it's free.
It's included.
And they're like, what?
And they cannot, like, it blows their mind that you can fill up for free, even if it takes 45 minutes.
Like, it blows their mind that this is just free.
Even though, you know, if they charge for it, it would probably only be, like, $2.
You know, it wouldn't be a lot of money if they're charging, like, whatever...
you know a fair rate would be for that electricity but just the idea of that being free just blows people's minds it's really interesting and i've never gotten the level of like strangers coming up to me about anything that i have about this car so did you sell some teslas or do they eventually ask you how much it costs and then they run away
I tend to not bring up the cost, and they don't either.
And also, a lot of them know about the Model 3.
A lot of them are like, oh, yeah, I heard about the new one.
It's going to be a lot cheaper.
So I'm telling you, the level of awareness, public awareness and public interest in this company is way off the charts compared to what I expected.
so how many how old are the people who are asking these questions is kids adults really old people i mean i i there aren't that many kids in in this area honestly uh i would i would say let the kids in there no i well yeah well like so say you say you arrived to get chicken salad in a lamborghini the five kids that are in your town would be talking to you about that car
right probably but uh but yeah no i mean like most people asking are i'd say in their 40s to 60s that's like average who you'd expect to see just the people that are there i'm just wondering if it if it attracts it like the tesla awareness is it skewing young or old
I would say it's all over the map.
The electricians who were here the other day, obviously they've seen them before because they have installed Tesla outlets for people before.
But they were asking all sorts of questions about it, and it was an older guy and a younger guy.
When I was getting lunch today, one of the clerks at the post office, who I knew from going in there a few times, she was in the parking lot.
She's like, oh my God, that's your car.
That's beautiful.
And she called her husband out of her car to come see it.
Everyone is so interested in this car.
And it's not like this is not the first Tesla in my neighborhood.
There's at least four others that I see around on a regular basis and have for a while now.
So it's not like it's especially the first one that's been around.
How much of a factor do you think the color is?
Certainly some, you know, because being a red car, but it's not like, you know, there are other red cars like it's it's there's lots of other red cars in town.
It's not like Ferrari red.
It's not like a bright cherry.
It's kind of like a medium red.
It's not like super intense.
It doesn't seem like it would be that visually catchy of a car like it doesn't look that unusual compared to other cars.
Speaking of unusual cars, when I was out in California, I saw for the first time I3s, which are everywhere there and are butt ugly.
Yes.
And the Model X, which are also all over there and are also butt ugly.
I have not seen an X yet in person.
There was a lot of them.
A lot of them in California do not like.
yeah i i can't argue with that just ungainly i saw one in white it was literally looked like one of those uh what do you call it the uh those whales that are white starts with a b maybe chat room help me out beluga casey's bmw i'm already hurting you don't need to stab me in the back too you know it's a tough crowd tonight
Oh, I'm sorry about your white car, Casey.
I'm not.
Sorry about my lack of a ticket, but I'm not sorry about my white car.
You should be.
No, it didn't look like Moby Dick.
Moby Dick was a sperm whale.
I think, right?
I don't know.
I don't know what they say in the book.
You think I actually read any of the books I'm supposed to read in school?
No, I don't know.
Do you like, Marco, having these people come up and ask you these questions?
Like, obviously, there's times when it's convenient, times where it isn't.
But in the grand scheme of things, do you find it kind of neat?
Or are you kind of like, dudes, leave me alone?
Oh, I don't.
I mean, so far, it's just kind of, it's novel, you know, because I've never had anybody express that kind of interest in the things I was driving in the chicken salad parking lot.
So he's going to print out laminated cards to just hand to people as soon as someone asks a question.
Here, take this card.
Here's an FAQ.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, ask me again in a year.
It might have gotten old by that point.
But no, so far, it's just kind of cool.
I mean, environmental people who drive fun cars, who drive the first Hypers or the first EVs, people have had these questions for other owners before.
And I've seen people write about it.
And it seems like it's kind of a fun thing of having these cars.
I think what surprises me is that it's still going on.
I kind of thought we'd be past the stage where these things would be novel.
But we're not.