A Long T-Shirt
So are we doing an all follow-up show today?
Yeah, I think we're doing all follow-up.
There's no particularly important news.
And maybe, you know what we should do is we should just dedicate this entire show to St.
Jude.
We should just do that.
That would actually be better.
I mean, there's nothing else to talk about.
That might be better.
It'll probably make us happier, actually.
I'm happy.
Are you not happy?
I'm happy, asterisk.
But we'll get there.
But since I brought it up, let's just talk about St.
Jude and not to make it sound like an obligation because it isn't.
We're proud to talk about St.
Jude, but let's get out of the way.
Normally, we would do a three-hour monologue about all the important things that St.
Jude does and all the reasons why we love that organization so much.
And in the interest of time, because I'd like to go to bed today, I'm going to make this reasonably quick and just remind you that September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.
And since the first relay in ATP for St.
Jude campaign in 2019, we've raised over $4 million as a community and the overwhelming majority of that was people directly attributing it to relay.
But we want to add even more to that total.
And hey, every one of our listeners, that's you.
can be a part of helping us achieve that.
How can you do that?
Well, you can send a little bit of money St.
Jude's way.
You can do that for all sorts of important reasons.
You can do it because they give medicines away for free.
You can do it because they try to do clinical trials in countries that don't have a lot of resources.
You can do it because they work with genetics to figure out how chemotherapy could be better tailored for people of any sort of cancer and even a second cancer.
Sometimes it comes back, which is even more terrible.
And here's the thing.
We would really love it if you could donate to St.
Jude in this time of Childhood Cancer Awareness Month.
We want to give these children the opportunity to have more tomorrows.
And I love that tagline so much.
And so we're going to briefly talk about the Marco Offset because if not now, then when?
But before we get there, I will just remind you, please go to stjude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E dot org slash ATP.
And whatever you can afford, be that $1, be that $10, be it $100, $1,000, $100,000, we'll take a million, that's fine.
But wherever you are in that spectrum, please do what you can.
And now is the time that we remind you there is a way to absolve yourself from the guilt of rampant consumerism and wasteful consumerism, which is what at least two-thirds and maybe three-thirds of this podcast will be participating in.
So, Marco, what is the Marco Offset?
So Apple just announced a whole bunch of new stuff.
We all want most of it, right?
Well, some of it at least.
And some of us are going to be replacing devices that we don't really necessarily need to replace, maybe.
They still work.
We just want the new hotness.
How do you absolve yourself of your consumerism guilt?
I'll tell you how.
By donating to St.
Jude.
Now, how do you know how much to donate to St.
Jude?
So here's what you do.
Now, in the past, I've said, take the base model of the things that you are ordering.
And whatever you go on top of that for like your total, including storage upgrades, tax, you know, cases, AppleCare, whatever the total is, subtract out that base price.
And then whatever you're left with is your Marco offset, which is how much you should donate.
Now, I'm going to modify it a little bit.
Oh, this is the time when everybody announces new things and and, you know, pushes the boundaries and adds 20 percent more battery and stuff like that.
So here's what we're going to do.
You're not going to take the base price of the thing you said.
So, for example, if you selected the iPhone 17 Pro Max, you're not going to take the base price of the iPhone 17 Pro.
you're going to take the base price of the cheapest thing in the family that was announced today, which is the iPhone 17.
The iPhone 17 base price is $799.
So whatever you're going to do for your iPhone, whatever the total is after you check out, tax, shipping if you pay for that somehow, the storage upgrades, the cases, everything, whatever your total is,
For your iPhone, you're going to subtract $799 from it.
And that difference is the suggested minimum donation that you make to St.
Jude if you can.
If you get a new Apple Watch, well, the Apple Watch SE3 was announced today at just $249.
So subtract whatever you're paying for your watch, subtract out $249.
And that is your new Marco Offset.
AirPods is only one thing announced, so go ahead.
Whatever you want on that.
Tax, you know, cases, I don't know, whatever you will do on that.
But for phones and watches today, I'm pushing the bar up very slightly today.
So please consider having that be your minimum donation to St.
Jude.
If you can't do it, we understand.
You know, this is not like a law written in stone.
But if you can do it, this is what we suggest that you start with as your consideration.
Thank you very much.
Indeed.
So one final reminder, stjude.org slash ATP, S-T-J-U-D-E dot org slash ATP.
John, anything to add or shall we just carry right along?
I was watching the leaderboard.
Normally we have like a very wealthy listeners who are up there like usually beating us on the leaderboard, but I wonder if everyone's waiting for the podcast-a-thon this year to send their big donations.
But anyway, keep in mind we are watching the leaderboard and I did see a couple names that I recognize that I know are like longtime ATP listeners, though I don't want to
read their names on the air if they didn't want to be outed like that.
But if you want to participate in the, you know, get to the top of the relay leaderboard, just put like ATP in your name or put an asterisk or something.
I forget what people do.
There's an asterisk to make fun of Casey because he put an asterisk one year or something.
Well, they're not showing the comment field on the leaderboard anymore because I put the Unicode snowman in mind to see if it would work, and they're just not showing them anywhere.
Anyway, you can always email us and let us know that you want to participate in the ATP top donor thing.
Again, this is not just a competition among people with lots and lots of money.
That's just a fun sideshow.
We're trying to show people being generous.
People who have a lot should give a lot, but even if you have very little, you get $1, $5.
It's just...
find a way to give something during this month if you can do that we'd really appreciate it
Yeah, and I don't think I've mentioned this month.
I feel like it went unsaid, and I shouldn't have felt that way.
But whoever the top donor is, if you would like ATP stickers, let me know.
Reach out.
All right, let's talk the Apple event.
And it started with a beautiful quote from Steve Jobs.
Design is not just what it looks like and feels like.
Design it how it works.
How perfect, isn't it, gentlemen?
Oh, this hurts so much.
She's like, okay, first of all, like...
It's been a long time, but we all still miss Steve.
So you have to be very careful, especially when Apple invokes the name of Steve Jobs.
That's something to be done almost as carefully as invoking the term one more thing in a keynote, which was a Steve Jobs-ism.
But they use that cautiously with good reason.
There haven't been a lot of uses of one more thing since Steve passed away.
Using Steve Jobs quotes is...
A bold move and to use a quote about design is not just what it looks like, but it's how it works.
As they release a redesigned operating system that seems like it's made entirely by people who have never heard this quote and don't believe it or don't understand it.
It's not great timing.
If Steve were still with us, we would not have a lot of the problems we have with the software design.
And we wouldn't have to be complaining about this, but nevertheless, I don't think this was well used.
Yeah, it's the type of thing where it's like this can't be a coincidence because this is exactly the opposite of reality.
Of all the quotes that you could pick, like it's not like one of those things like, oh, Apple's at the intersection of liberal arts and technology and whatever like that.
You can just apply to anything.
It's kind of like a journal mission statement and no one really feels like Apple is no longer at that intersection.
They're always kind of combining those things.
That's just generic.
But this is very specifically about the very specific thing that we all know is wrong with liquid glass, right?
And to put that quote up, it's either like it's either shows, you know, whoever picked that quote is essentially in denial about what liquid glass is or they misunderstand the criticism and they think, hey, everyone who's telling us we're doing a bad job is criticizing how it looks.
But how it looks doesn't matter.
It's how it works.
And that's not to be clear.
That is not the criticism.
The criticism is not of how it looks.
The criticism is 100% of how it works, which is related to how it looks because the looks are causing the problems with the functionality.
But like, it's just such a exact denial of reality.
It's kind of like daring us to say, you know,
It was very upsetting.
And especially since also... It's doublespeak.
Yeah.
Also, it had almost nothing to do with the presentation because it's not like the presentation leaned super hard into liquid glass or anything.
Like, they were announcing a bunch of products.
So whoever decided to lead with that quote, like, it just made me angry or, you know, or just, like, more pessimistic about...
the grasp on reality that the people who design these presentations have and we're not going to dwell on the presentation we're mostly just going to talk about the products this episode but i couldn't let this quote go because it is just such a sort of finger in your eye yeah it shows like apple's not amazed and this has been true for a while they're not amazing at reading the room you know they they oftentimes will you know release products or um announcements uh that just that kind of you know miss the tone of what's going on around them and granted
You know, we are little nerd circles don't represent the entire tone.
Obviously, like they don't especially with the iPhone event, like they really don't give two craps about people like us at all.
Like we are nothing to them, especially in the iPhone event.
And by the way, on that topic, because this presentation happened before the general public sees liquid glass.
We're like, we're the only possible thing that they could be reacting to because the public hasn't experienced it yet.
So whatever the public is going to think about it, maybe they'll love it.
Who cares?
Whatever.
But right now, when this presentation was made, this statement flies in the face of all the evidence of what's actually happening with the people who are dealing with liquid glass.
I mean, in all fairness, just for the record, the beta has been out for a long time and many people who are not NERS developers install the betas.
And Overcast currently today has 6.4% of people using iOS 26.
Again, maybe not representative of the general public, but still.
Agreed, but still.
Anyway, let's move on to the fun stuff, the products.
The fun stuff.
So I was very excited to see AirPods Pro 3.
And this was foretold earlier today, maybe it was yesterday, to be a very meh update.
And if you're to believe Apple, who obviously is going to market the snot out of this at this moment, if not any other,
Uh, but if you're to believe them, it sounds like it's a really nice series of updates.
So I wouldn't characterize this as mad.
Cause I feel like as we'll go through all the things, but I feel like AirPods pro three seem like they're better in all the ways that AirPods pro can be better than their previous model.
Like it's not just better in like one or two ways or just one special way that they're really hyping.
Like everything that these products does, it seems like from the presentation, the new ones will do better, which I was, I was very surprised by what a big jump.
The threes are over the twos.
Yeah.
And to be clear, I agree with you.
I was just referring to like a day or two ago, the rumors were, oh, it's going to be kind of a meh update.
There's not going to be any ANC changes.
It's not going to be much of anything.
And I agree.
I don't think that's what they delivered at all.
I think they delivered a heck of a good series of upgrades.
Yeah, this to me, when you look at what will have the longest lasting impact from today's announcement, it's probably the AirPods.
AirPods Pros change only every few years usually.
We know there's a rumor recently that there's going to be another one next year with infrared gesture cameras or whatever.
Who knows?
But they change pretty slowly.
And they impact a lot of people a lot of the time.
They made a couple of claims that I thought were interesting.
One of them, they said, more people work out with AirPods Pro than any other headphones in the world.
Now, granted, workouts are a custom type of thing, and I'm not sure exactly how they know what people are using on other phones, but AirPods Pros are really, really popular.
You see them everywhere.
I
What we don't know, I don't think, is whether the AirPods Pros are more popular than the regular AirPods.
You wouldn't think they would be because they're more expensive.
But I think they might be.
I don't think we know that for sure.
But these affect tons of people.
And I think the AirPods Pros are possibly... If I had to pick one, what's the most amazing product Apple has made in the last X years...
they would be pretty high on that list of consideration because they're just so good overall.
And what's great about the Pro 3s, with the caveat that we haven't actually gotten to try them yet, but believe me, I ordered some for day one, so we're going to see how they are in a couple of weeks.
But...
They are very promising looking from what they've announced and shown off.
Very much so.
The additional noise cancellation is at least partially due to the fact that they have now filled some of the gaps in the ear plugs, the squishy parts, with foam.
This should improve comfort for a lot of people also if it works the way most foam-tipped earpods do or earbuds.
So it's probably going to improve comfort.
It will definitely improve the passive isolation, which will also improve ANC just because there will be less to deal with.
So that should be good.
They were kind of unclear as to whether there are additional ANC gains besides the foam filling the eartip cavity there.
We'll see.
But even if there aren't, even if that's all it is, that's still a good improvement.
They bragged about better bass and soundstage.
Bass, we know what that is.
Soundstage, for those of you who aren't audiophiles, means how wide it appears that the sound is coming from.
In terms of like...
Are you like sitting directly in between like a guitar and drums?
That's not a very wide soundstage.
If it sounds like you are sitting like in an auditorium where the band is playing in front of you, that is a wide soundstage.
And so that's generally a good thing for headphones.
And it's one of those things like really cheap, basic, crappy headphones don't do a good job of that.
And really fancy headphones do.
So for them to improve bass and soundstage allegedly while also improving ANC, while also they also talked about how they scanned the
thousands of ears and did all these studies trying to figure out like as jason snell snarkily points out in the chat room this is the third time that apple has proudly announced that they've redesigned airpods based on a large set of human ears yes and i don't actually snark at that because yeah every time they change the shape of the things that go in your ears
They say we studied a bunch of ears to do this.
And I believe them because I think what happens is like they do a bunch of ear studies.
They make a product that is always going to be a compromise between here's the stuff we have to fit in the thing.
Here's the shapes of the human ears and here's size, weight, balance.
There's all sorts of other factors that go into making it stay in your ears correctly.
So every one they make is a compromise and every one they make is
has trade-offs that they i'm sure study and say okay is this one falling out of people's ears more than the other one or less than the other one is it our pressure point that we didn't realize is on the old shape didn't press on this part of the year but the new one does and it turns out people don't like this or whatever so they're always always let's look again at the ear let's look again at the shape let's look again at the components and let's try to do a better job in this time that stays in better is more comfortable uh you know like doesn't press on uncomfortable parts of all sorts of different ears like there is no
correct answer other than something that is microscopic and magnetically floating in your ear that doesn't touch any part of your ear, right?
But they're not there yet.
So I believe them.
Like they have to keep changing this.
And I don't have the pros.
My wife does, but she rarely uses them.
So I don't see them that much.
But these look significantly differently shaped, which doesn't matter as much for the pros because the part that goes in your ear is the part that matters.
And yes, they've changed it this time by putting foam in it, which is great.
But the other part of this AirPod looks very different than the 2s.
Is that, am I reading that right?
Do you guys both have 2s?
No, what they said, they said was that each of the actual pods is not only smaller than it used to be, but also has been reshaped.
Yeah, they do.
They look actually more like the 4s now with like a weird foam tip on them.
Yeah, which, honestly, great.
People seem to like those.
I hope they still fit me because the original AirPods didn't.
Yeah, you're always rolling the dice because they do change them, and you might have been lucky with the last one that was great for your ears, but they get unlucky with the next one.
Yeah, we'll see.
But I love the AirPods Pro.
They mentioned that they've improved transparency mode.
What they said, the quote was, your own voice and people speaking to you will sound more natural than ever.
I wonder what that means.
Is that just like an EQ tweak or a processing tweak or is it something like, you know, one of the things that people are very sensitive to with their own voice being echoed back to them is latency.
So if they are changing the processing in such a way that can reduce latency even further, which would be honestly very impressive because it's already super low, that could account for that.
But who knows?
We'll see what that means once we actually get these to use.
I think your own voice is like the resonance in your own skull.
Like they have to like reproduce that so that it doesn't sound like you're here.
That's why people, when they hear their own voices on a recording, they think their voice sounds weird because they're normally hearing it echoing through their own skull.
So I wonder if they're like simulating that or something.
Oh, good point.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, we'll find out what they, in other people's voices, it might just be voice boost, but yeah.
Yeah, like so as you know, you kept saying A and C, but that's active noise cancellation.
One of the jobs of the AirPod Pro in this modern era is to be noise canceling.
And they supposedly do that twice as well as they used to, which they used to do it.
The old one, the AirPods Pro 2 was twice as good as the one before that.
So noise canceling continues to get better.
Is it just because of the foam?
Like you said, Margaret, either way, it's better.
Yeah.
If they fit in your ears better, they're lighter, they're smaller, they're more waterproof than they used to be.
Now it's IP57.
I don't remember the details of what the IP things are, but hey, more waterproof than they were before, which is good.
Longer battery life than before.
Another important metric of this type of product going from six to eight hours with noise cancellation on or 10 hours with transparency on.
And this is before we get to any of the new features.
We're just saying, like, AirPods, this is what they do.
Now all the things they do, they do better.
And the price stayed the same, so all that's pretty good.
But then what did they add?
Can I jump in here?
I want to go back to what Marco was saying a few minutes ago, that the AirPods Pro are arguably Apple's best product of these days.
We've been to this rodeo before, all three of us, and we've said it before.
And AirPods in general, and AirPods Pro specifically, I couldn't agree more, are...
probably my favorite apple product like i obviously they wouldn't really work or not in the same way without an iphone and and i still think the vision pro for all of its many problems is the most amazing apple product that i have in my personal repertoire however the one i get the most use out of and that integrates into my day more seamlessly than almost anything else is airpods pro 3 and you know i did buy a pair that i will hopefully be picking up while i'm in memphis um
And so I'll be able to use them on the plane ride home.
But I spent the $250 plus tax.
And on the one side, I thought, wow, that is a lot of money.
But on the other side, for the amount of use I get out of my AirPods, it's kind of a bargain.
And I'll tell you in one side of my mouth that the AirPods Max or whatever, what are the headphone things called?
I'm drawing a blank.
The giant ones?
AirPods Max.
Okay, so I did have it.
Okay, so the AirPods Max.
Anyways, those things are what, like $500 or something like that, which is hilariously expensive.
$550?
Yeah.
Good grief.
Way less expensive per unit weight, though.
But, so, yeah, they're pretty much over twice the cost.
And yet, if you told me that the only way to get AirPods was to pay $550, first I would hold on to the ones I've already got.
But if they broke...
Man, don't tell Apple.
This is just between us, but I'd pay the $550 because, holy crap, I use these things all the time, and they genuinely make me so incredibly happy.
So, yeah, I know we have a little more to talk about with regard to the AirPods Pro.
I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to move on here, but they are such incredibly good products today, and I cannot be more excited about having AirPods Pro that allegedly – I believe they said two times better ANC, which implies the electronics –
are two times better that's leaving aside the foam portion well i think i think it includes both and keep in mind like like we also don't know like what what are they considering the metric here like is the metric um you know actual sound energy which could be measured in decibels which is only we should only be like three decibels
Maybe like that's that seemed like it would be the most straightforward way to measure things but like you know that you know decibels are a logarithmic scale it's you know that kind of we perceive things kind of logarithmically and so it's not like three decibel reduction if that is what they what they achieved is.
It's not nothing, but it's not going to radically put these into a different class.
Basically, if the old AirPods didn't block enough noise for you, the new ones will block more, but it probably won't be as much as you think if what they're measuring was basically decibels or sound energy.
Well, I mean, this is all just a marketing term and there's more to noise cancellation than just how much noise gets through.
Like we've all had noise cancellation get sort of confused by some sound in the environment and not cancel it as well.
Or like it's really good with like sort of drones like on an airplane, but trickier to pick out other noises, especially like transient noises from constant noises plus people's voices.
So it's a complicated.
And how do you measure that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So AirPods Pro 2 has already had, I think, class-leading noise cancellation in terms of how much it was able to block out.
And more importantly to me, and I think to most people much of the time, when it does want to pass in external sound, like in transparency mode or in adaptive mode.
they sound like apple's transparency mode destroys everyone else's in the industry like everyone else they compete on noise cancellation you know you got sony you got bose you got like the little google buds and whatever i was like they all do very well on you know active noise cancellation that that's a pretty competitive field but read every review that's tried them both apple destroys them on transparency and so and many features that airpods pro have rely on that so things like
Obviously, the actual walking around with transparency mode, but even things like the hearing health features.
If you're using them as hearing aids, they're basically constantly in transparency mode.
That requires the transparency mode to be good and natural sounding.
And with the AirPods Pros, even since the very first ones...
When you turn on transparency mode, you just feel like you're not wearing earbuds anymore.
It doesn't feel like a filtered, affected, delayed, or processed version of the real sound.
It feels like, oh, now I just took them out of my ears.
And the really eye-opening or ear-opening part of this is if you wear AirPods Pro in transparency for a while...
Turn them off for a minute, like go to the noise cancellation menu and select off as the mode.
That's what they actually would sound like if they were not feeding any sound into your ears.
That's like when you actually turn off transparency, like you just have these things plugging up your ears.
That's what you would actually hear.
And you realize how good transparency is when you hear when you turn it off and you hear, oh, that's
what would be here otherwise it's remarkable so anyway so for them to say they've improved it even further i don't even know if i if i would notice it because it already sounds in audio terms literally transparent which means you don't notice it so hey this is this all sounds great oh and also they uh they're giving you more tips in the box they used to give you like a small medium and large now they come with five sizes from biggest to smallest to help improve that fit which i think is a good idea
And, you know, Apple adding things to the box, usually they don't do for both, you know, environmental waste reasons, but also cost reasons.
But hey, now you get more tips.
Yep.
And they, they also adding, I don't think we've mentioned, but they're adding a heart rate monitoring via the AirPods.
That was the one rumored new feature and it turns out they're doing it.
This is only active during workouts is I believe what they said.
So presumably only when you've told like an Apple Watch or an iPhone that you're actively doing a workout that this will work.
I don't know that.
I don't know that for sure, but that's my assumption.
I believe that's true.
And I actually didn't realize before this presentation that there is a way to have like an Apple workout without a watch.
Like to be clear, this does not require an Apple Watch at all and in fact might replace an Apple Watch for certain people for certain needs.
I wouldn't expect the heart rate monitoring in the AirPods Pro to be more accurate than the watch.
And the watch is already not incredibly accurate.
It gives you a ballpark.
If you're a really serious running athlete, there's chest-mounted things and stuff that are more accurate for that kind of use.
The Apple Watch...
has never been super accurate.
Again, it's more of like, give me a rough idea where I am.
And chances are the AirPods Pro's heart rate monitoring is going to be also a rough idea.
Maybe even a rougher idea than the Apple Watch based on other attempts at in-ear stuff from other manufacturers and I believe Beats already has it.
Don't buy these if you want super precise heart rate monitoring as a killer feature for you.
But
it's probably going to be similarly valuable to the Apple Watch in those terms.
And if you don't have an Apple Watch and you don't want an Apple Watch, this could be a good way to like, hey, give me some, you know, I want to go running or I want to, you know, I want to measure myself on a walk.
Like, let's try this.
Well, you got one more new feature that they showed, which is the live translation.
Which is kind of not really an AirPods feature.
I know it kind of is because it's an integration, but be clear, the translation is not happening on the AirPods.
Well, also, it doesn't require the AirPods Pro 3.
It works on, I believe, the 2 and up, and I think the AirPods 4...
I think as well.
The demo they showed was like someone in like a busy outdoor market.
And like the challenging thing about any kind of live translation thing, setting aside the weird awkwardness and the delays and so on and so forth is can the thing pick out the voice that you're of the person you're speaking to or is speaking to you amidst all the other voices going on in a crowded place?
That's the really difficult part.
Um, that's a place where I like cameras and, uh, you know, some kind of image recognition that knew where you were looking at, who you were looking at would help, but we're not there yet.
But anyway, this exists.
You can try it.
Uh, you know, you squeeze both of the things when someone talks, it's kind of, uh, decreases the volume of their voice and plays you back the translation that happened.
through i don't know if it's a local model on your phone or if it's sending it out but either way it's yet another in a long line of real-time translation tools that now integrates with your rpods which is neat i guess yeah this that's the kind of thing like as you know i don't travel that often and when i do it's usually not to non-english speaking places but when i do travel it's not english speaking places i would find something like this invaluable but i won't be the first guy to do it like
I am not confident enough to be Mr. AirPods translation before it becomes commonplace for people to do this while traveling.
So I'm hoping, hey, everyone else go do this, please.
So then I can feel more comfortable doing it when I need to.
I feel like you'd have to wear a t-shirt or a sign or something that says, this is what's happening here.
My AirPods are trying to translate you, but there's a time delay and it's muting your actual talking, which I can't understand anyway.
And then it's playing back what it thinks you said after some delay.
So if it looks like I'm just waiting after you talked and saying nothing, I'm waiting for my phone to, like, it would be a long t-shirt.
But like...
it seems like you would have to have communicate with somebody first let them know this is what's going on because what they showed is like an idealized version with delays removed and with people who are understanding and accepting of what's going on but like normally when you talk to somebody you don't expect to have to wait for the invisible translator in their ear to translate what you said either understand you or they don't so yeah like marco said i think there's a
uh social aspect of this now people there's apps on your phone that do this that have been for ages so but at least with the phone they can kind of see on the phone screen like the translation happening in real time you kind of hold the phone between you and the person you're talking and stuff like that i don't have any experience with this but i've seen other people do it so this is another step along that journey uh but i'm i'm not sure we're at the destination yet
We'll see how it goes.
How well does it actually work in practice?
Google and Android and apps have had this for a while.
None of them have set the road on fire, but they're all occasionally useful for a lot of people.
A lot of people do use them when they're traveling.
They're imperfect, but they're better than nothing.
Right.
It's better than just like yelling slowly in English at people.
Yeah.
Or like flipping, flipping through a phrase book or something.
Right.
Exactly.
Do you know, drawing, you know, let's play charades or whatever.
But and yeah, you're like the the social part here, I think, you know, they're obviously relying on this, but.
It's not the first time.
AirPods' hearing aid features are also kind of relying on social movement in terms of how people perceive other people wearing AirPods.
So far, most of the time of headphones existing, people have assumed that if somebody is wearing headphones that they can't hear you and that maybe they don't want to be speaking to you or you don't want to be spoken to.
And what Apple is pushing for with all these features is basically –
hoping or trying to break that assumption, to say, you know what, when you see somebody with AirPods, you can try talking to them, or they can talk to you, and you can assume that if they're talking to you, they can probably hear you back.
They're trying to challenge that social norm.
That's a big thing to challenge, but...
They're also not the only ones doing it.
As you mentioned, the Android side of everything is also offering this with all of their high-end earbud-type things now.
And so I think it won't be that long before people's perceptions about headphone wearers have changed because I think that if any of this works at all, it's going to become incredibly valuable to so many people that it will start becoming very commonplace.
So I hope it does, and I think it will.
The one thing that I thought was a little bit awkward about this, and I get it, there's no real other alternative for it, but when it wasn't two people having a mutual conversation at the dinner table or whatever that was, which was awkward in its own regard, but when the woman walked up to the vendor or whatever it was,
And the vendor is speaking to her and she just like holds up her phone as the way to respond.
I intellectually get that.
What else are you going to do?
But I feel like that made me go like just socially.
I felt like that was a very it made me uncomfy.
People do that now with Google Translate.
Like that's it.
That's not an uncommon thing.
Like it's not ubiquitous, but it does happen.
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All right, moving on.
Apple Watch.
We got the compulsory sappy video, which was great, as always, where we talked about how it saved our lives and so on and so forth.
And I don't mean to minimize that.
I mean, it really is impressive technology, especially if it is something that could literally save your life.
But we're not here to talk about that.
We're here to talk about Series 11, which apparently has the S10 processor, which is breaking news.
They did not have a new system-owned package, system-owned chip, whatever you want to call it, for this year, as far as we are aware.
They didn't announce it.
There's a Mac rumor story saying that they all have the S10.
They did mention that the SE3 has the S10, and we're like, oh, that makes sense for the SE.
But it seems like, again, mere hours after the presentation, that they gave up on the farce of changing the number on what is essentially the same chip, and they're just saying, yes, it's got the S10 again.
Yeah, which, by the way, is just about the same as the S9, as far as everyone can tell.
Yeah, yeah.
So maybe we'll have more on it next week, but there's that.
The Series 11 watch, it's not a significant upgrade in most ways.
I had to pour through the compare pages and look up documents and see what are the differences.
There's not many.
The biggest one for most people is going to be the battery life.
Which is significant.
Like they've raised it from an estimated 18 hours to an estimated 24 hours.
So not only is that good on day one, but also one of the things that eventually kills the usefulness of Apple Watches for people after a few years is when the battery life has degraded over time such that it can't really make it through their day very easily.
That's often what ends up requiring service or replacement of an Apple Watch.
So to have really good battery life to start with on day one, not only has the benefit of it's great from day one, but also you can probably keep it for longer.
And as we're seeing –
These Apple Watch upgrades are not very big most of the time.
You know, the Series 10 and the Series 9 are about the same as the Series 11.
There's a very minor difference between those three.
The Series before those, 6, 7, and 8.
Also, very few differences between those three models.
So we're kind of on a three-year cycle with the Apple Watch really making significant jumps.
So for the battery to start out better is important and is meaningful.
And that can make the difference.
Maybe some people who were possibly buying the Ultra just to get the longest battery life, maybe now they'd be fine with a Series 11.
So again, all good changes around the battery.
Otherwise,
The main differences seem to be that the Series 11 has 5G for its cell modem, and it has a more scratch-resistant crystal on the aluminum models.
And that's, I think, it?
Is there anything else that's exclusive to the Series 11?
So there's the high blood pressure thing, which is not exclusive to the...
New thing, but it is a new watch feature.
I mean, like I said, that's the thing about these health features is that they usually don't – the ones they've built lately have not required lots of new sensors.
So they take the existing sensors they have and say, what else can we get from them?
And now it's some sort of synthesis of high blood pressure and notifications about that.
The interesting thing about the other one you mentioned, the scratch resistance, this will be a trend for this whole presentation, and I think it's a welcome trend in that advances in technology –
you know, like basics of the devices they make this year seem to be shared across all the products.
And one of the big ones that you'll see in essentially every single product they announced that has a piece of glass is this new two times more scratch resistant coating, which they talk about multiple times in multiple ways.
And as far as I can tell, it's all the same thing.
It's like a new ceramic coating from their glass vendor that is more scratch-resistant than before.
But they didn't just put that on the proiest of pro models.
Just everything with glass gets it, which is refreshing.
Yeah, that is really nice.
I like where they're going with the health stuff, like the hypertension alerts.
That's good.
I do wonder what's keeping them from going a little bit further with that because there's other, like I know Whoop, the Whoop band, that's a competing wearable.
They have nightly blood pressure readings.
They do it every night and you can look in the morning and you can see what was my blood pressure yesterday or overnight.
So we know the technology exists in similar wearables to do that.
I don't know why Apple's not doing that yet.
I'm sure they have their reasons, but
I look around too like – okay, as I was just saying, the Apple Watch barely changes like every three years.
You look around the wearables market today.
You have stuff like Fitbits at the kind of lower end.
You have things like Whoop at the medium to high end.
You have the Aura Ring, the rings.
You have like all these different things that are –
Expanding the wearables market by serving roles or physical manifestations or other features that the Apple Watch doesn't serve.
And I don't see Apple really caring to push into those markets ever.
Like, you know, the new Apple Watch SE is just, you know, it's nice.
We'll talk about it in a minute.
But like, it's still basically an Apple Watch.
And there's all these other markets of wearables that are doing similar kind of activity tracking and things like that.
Like, if Apple brought some of their tech to, they could do a great job with a cuff, a ring, you know, something else.
They could do a wonderful job with that kind of thing.
And they just don't seem like they want to serve those markets.
um which is fine i mean i think they're approaching it from all sides though like don't you think they're approaching it from like the watch side the phone side the airpod side the glasses side from the the six-year timeline or whatever we read last time like you're right that they're not diving into those other markets but i think they see on their roadmap that like we are going to we have them surrounded like we've got things in your ears soon we'll have things on your eyes we've got your phone in your pocket we've got your watch on your wrist
Yeah, if we came out with the whoop thing that you could put like anywhere on your body, we could do something now, but we'll get there eventually.
So I give them some leeway because I think their strategy is sound in terms of like, let's do form factors.
I mean, setting the glasses aside, we'll see how that goes.
But let's do form factors that we know are popular on their own merits.
And essentially, we establish like base camp on people's bodies where we can just start adding sensors like that.
As soon as they can conceivably put not just the IR sensors, as is rumored, but like cameras and stuff on your AirPods or cameras in your glasses.
And so like, I think they'll get there eventually.
The main complaint I hear people about the Apple Watch is that like the Apple Watch itself in the realm of watches is not really pushing the envelope too much, but they are making it better year to year.
Even those three year runs that you said where they're not really that different.
there's tiny improvements such that if you could, if you had the choice between the first or the third, you should always take the third because like the screen's a little bit brighter or it's a little bit bigger or the battery life's a little bit better, even if they all had fresh batteries.
Right.
So I, I think the series 11, you know, it's just, it's just a spec bump year.
Uh, and that's fine.
And some new watch bands with a reflective threads in them or whatever.
Um,
Not a big deal, but if you were getting a watch right now and you had a choice between a Series 10 and a Series 11 for the same price, I would definitely recommend the 11.
Oh, yeah.
The battery life alone would be worth that threshold.
What was the old battery life, by the way?
They claim 18 versus 24 hours.
So that's a significant difference.
And I do wonder if they got like considering the S10 is the same.
Is it just like the screen takes less power?
Like maybe it's a little bit better screen or maybe they're being smarter about doing the sensing stuff, which is also maybe why the blood pressure thing is just alerts and not like measuring it more.
Well, the phrase they used in the presentation was they, quote, reengineered the battery.
Now, maybe this, you know, this they also changed out the cell modem.
So I wonder if, you know, going to a 5G modem, they didn't brag about the battery chemistry.
No, but they mentioned with the modem, the cell modem, that 5G is more efficient than LD, which it can be.
I'm guessing that they kind of got more space in the case by some shuffling up of the cell modem, maybe.
But I don't know.
Maybe they're using different battery chemistry.
Who knows?
But somehow they got a significant bump in battery life that seems like it's not just software tweaks.
It is some kind of hardware change.
Oh, they also added an illegible new watch face to celebrate liquid glass.
Finally, something that is appropriate for a liquid glass.
Yeah, it should be watch face that you can't read.
I laughed out loud when I saw that in the video.
I'm like, of course, that's perfect.
You can't read the time.
Great.
If you haven't seen the video, they make the time out of like liquid blobs, but the shapes of the letters are kind of abstract made out of like sort of triangles and semicircles and blobs and stuff.
So it actually is kind of difficult to say, is that a one or a seven or a nine?
Perfect.
Chef's kiss.
They should scroll random photos behind it.
That way you really can't see.
Exactly.
Right.
That's what they should have had the front of the thing instead of a quote.
That really shows what liquid glass is.
All right.
So it's coming in black, silver, rose, gold, and a beautiful new space gray because it wouldn't be a new Apple product if it didn't have a weird new space gray.
Uh, titanium will be available in natural gold and slate.
Uh, the Nike sport bands now have reflective threads on them.
Uh, all in all, this looks good to me.
I don't think that there's anything earth shattering and I would have been more keen on it had they not done what I am glad they did, which is backport.
A lot of these new health features, including sleep score, including high blood pressure or hypertension notifications.
Um, I'm very happy that that's coming back a fair bit.
And some of these are coming back like several years, uh, in terms of, uh, models that are compatible, but series 11, it looks good.
Like I think it was John just said, you know, if you're looking to get one and the new battery life will be great.
But as someone who has a series 10, this certainly doesn't seem like a necessary upgrade for me.
And I would argue, depending on how old your watches and how good your battery is at this particular moment in time, it's probably a pass for most people that already have an Apple watch.
Yeah.
If you've got a series 10, you can set it.
Yeah, I would say if you have an 8 or older, go for it.
If you have a 9 or a 10, you're not going to notice much.
All right, Apple Watch SE 3.
This is a lot of the same.
It's basically bringing it up to be more peer to the other watches.
It now has an always-on display.
It's getting 5G cell.
It's getting gestures, so the double tap, the wrist flick, all that stuff.
Sleep apnea and sleep score, 18-hour battery life, and fast charging, which is apparently two times faster than the previous SE.
available only in starlight and midnight and uh that's pretty cool yeah i think this is this is good for when you need a cheaper apple watch for some reason you know if you're getting it for somebody who like really doesn't care like a kid you know like about some of the more advanced features fine um if you are a nerd listening to our show and you are buying this for yourself just get the series 11 like
If you have to save up longer to budget for it, it's worth it.
But if you are really looking for a very basic Apple Watch, go for it.
This is fine.
And this SE won't be changed probably for a few more years.
So if you do want to get an SE, this would be the year to get it because next year it's probably not going to be...
not going to be changed in the year after that it probably won't be changed like the se is not on an every year update cycle so be aware of that so this is as good as the se is ever going to be compared to the rest of the line probably oh and during this segment by the way they did say uh one point the presenter said not only did we update the se and series this year they didn't say the se we updated se and series anyway if weird to hear them refer to the non se non ultra uh
watch line as series not only did we update se and series you updated series like if they don't have a good way to refer to that one that the regular apple watch is how we refer to it but anyway the apple did this themselves with their name yeah they would never refer to that i do i do love whenever we get like little glimpses of apple's internal lingo that does not make a ton of sense to the outside world yeah like blow away being used as an adjective what are we going to do about series this year
They say that in meetings and it makes sense to them, but they say it in the outside world and it sounds weird.
Very much so.
All right, so Apple Watch Ultra 3.
This is what I thought I was going to buy last year because we all knew it was definitely coming out last year, right?
But anyways, Apple Watch Ultra 3.
This has a fancy new screen, a wide-angle OLED, and they mentioned LTPO3, which is an acronym I've heard before, but I couldn't remember what the heck it meant.
John, can you give me a two-second tour of what that means?
I had to look it up because I know it's low temperature something or other, but it's low temperature polycrystalline oxide, which is a combination of LTPS and IGZO.
Anyway, we'll link in the show notes if you want to read about it.
But it's a better screen.
And the interesting thing about this is it is actually a different resolution than the old Ultra.
So they made the screen a little bit bigger, getting closer to the edges.
And that little bit bigger adds pixels.
Not a lot of pixels, but the resolution is different.
So if you're a watch dev, be aware.
you are seeing more information on the screen and i think i have a question mark on this because i haven't gone back and reviewed i think they said it's like 3d printed titanium yeah on the bento box it says 3d printed case no yeah so i think that some doing some interesting a lot of their interesting manufacturing things they do like on the watch it's it's like a small scale way to mess with it and i think they were touting it as being more recycled but anyway um
it looks the same as it did before it's made of titanium the screen is a little bit bigger it's got the satellite connectivity that was rumored where you can although i meant to look this up as well so they said like satellite connectivity obviously for the sos thing that's included for free and i'm not sure if it's free forever for three years they said emergency sos free for two years which again so do we know yet because now it's been more than two years since we've they keep kicking the can down every time it comes it comes due they kick the can down the road and say oh it's still free so i don't know
But didn't satellite launch with the iPhone 14?
Yeah, they just today, I don't think I can put my hands on the news article I saw, but today I read that they have kicked the can on the 14 another year.
Oh, actually, Jason in the chat was kind enough to put the link in there for us.
We'll put it in the show notes.
Thank you, Mr. Snell.
And then they said, so there's that.
But there's also the satellite thing where you can do more than just SOS, where you can send like messages and stuff.
And that's the feature that most people care about for this is like, hey, what if I'm out of cell range and I'm not dying, but I just want to text somebody?
Can I do that?
And that is apparently available if you have an active cellular plan.
I think that's what the slide said, which is weird because cellular is not related to satellite.
I guess the hardware you need to communicate is fine, but the cell towers that you were talking to are not in space.
I wonder if somehow the carriers pay for that.
I'm not sure how that works.
maybe it's yeah maybe it's i don't i don't understand but anyway that's what they put on the slide but anyway this is this is the change for the why would you want the ultra 3 instead of the ultra 2 better screen slightly bigger screen satellite connectivity the 3d printed titanium i don't think you'll notice oh and 42 hours of battery life which is supposedly up from what it used to be but anyway it's a better ultra
yeah you know the ultra really has not changed a ton since it was introduced but it's you know similar to the series watches um it changes in these little tiny incremental ways when it does change and and those are welcome even though it's not like you know a massive thing in most ways i think in this case the big story is that satellite communication like that's that is the big story for the ultra three um not something that everybody will need but something that could come in handy if you do um so that's that's great um
The Ultra launched with a big splash, big success.
You saw them everywhere.
I see a lot less of them these days.
I wonder, did the fad of people who are not Ultra people just wearing them because they look cool, did that fad die in smartwatch land?
Because for a while, that first year, you saw everybody wearing Apple Watch Ultras.
Now, it seems like maybe it's more people who are actually on the mountains.
Uh, I, I think there's some truth to that, but I can tell you amongst my peers, my, my local friend group, a handful of them, two or three of them got ultras sometime last year.
And they did that, I think for a couple of reasons.
Number one, they had gotten maybe an ultra one or at this point, like they had found a deal on the ultra two or something like that.
But I think all three of them, if I recall correctly, did this almost exclusively because of battery life.
And I don't think any of them were in a position that they couldn't make it through a day with a series watch, but it was always on the edge.
And that's how it is for me.
Like, I can make it through a day, but I'm on the edge at the end of pretty much every single day.
And I think they just wanted to not freaking care about battery life anymore.
And certainly when the Ultra is new, you don't have to care about battery life, or certainly not in the same way.
And I mean, they're saying the Ultra 3 is 42 hours of battery life.
I mean, that's bananas.
It's almost double what the series watches offer.
So I don't think that...
Or I should say, I think you're right that the fad portion of it did die down, but I wouldn't say that it's exclusively like ultramarathoners that are using them now.
I'm seeing them on regular people's wrists just because they want a better battery.
Yeah, fair.
I would also, I would suggest that, you know, this is maybe a hot take.
I think the ultras have some of the best straps.
Now, I, you know, I just cheat and, you know, sometimes just use an ultra strap on my series 10.
You know, I mentioned last time I used the, um,
titanium Milanese most of the time this summer and it's great I love it but certainly like it doesn't look exactly like a match on the series 11 or series 10 it looks a lot better on an actual ultra but I do I do like the ultra bands they're really cool
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All right, then 30 minutes in, I think pretty much on the nose, we get to the iPhone.
And we are told by Tim there are four new models to meet the unique needs of our users.
And we were largely emceed with this from Kai Andrantz, who we usually get to see for this.
We start with the iPhone 17.
Available, and I don't have the list in front of me.
And shoot, I took terrible notes.
I didn't have a chance to go back.
But lavender, which is kind of a pinkish purple.
Sage, which is green.
Mist blue.
White and black.
If you've seen any non-pro iPhone colors in the last three or so years, you will be utterly unsurprised by how these look.
It's like, yep, blackish, whitish, light purple, light green, light blue.
Okay.
And they're pretty good.
Like the 16 colors are pretty good.
Like they're not as like saturated this year, but you won't be confused.
Is this the green one?
You can tell it's green.
Same thing with all the other colors, right?
And the white and the black are just straight up white and black.
Remember those years where they kept doing a white that was like dishwater white?
They would never just make it white.
Yeah, starlight and midnight.
But even before that, sometimes they would have a white one that was like, is this really white or is it kind of like silvery white?
And just, you know, so anyway, they're even just called white and black.
So you have mist blue, but then the white and black are just white and black.
But anyway, these, I think we'll get to the ProColor, the ProColor singular in a little bit.
But I think that the 17 continues to have the best colors in the lineup, which is a low bar, admittedly.
Oh, I definitely disagree with that.
Well, there's the most variety.
You're more likely to find something that you like in the 17 because you have lots of different choices.
I think you're more likely to look at the 17 lineup and find something that you think is fine.
Yeah.
Oh, because it has the most fun color.
It's got three, two boring colors, white and black, but still people like white and black and they're pure white and black.
And then it's got blue, green and purplish pink.
That's pretty good.
They're fine.
I do think it's very interesting that when introducing the iPhone 17, the very first... Was it Cayenne Trans who introduced it?
Yep.
The very first thing Cayenne talked about were the colors.
Like, that was... There's nothing about the specs or anything else.
The very first thing is, here's the colors.
And I think that shows...
This is what people care about, which is true.
When you're introducing the iPhone 10,000, we've already seen what iPhones are for so long.
And so one of the very first things we want to know is what does it look like?
And here's some cool colors.
That...
I know it probably drives certain nerd types like us a little bit nuts.
It doesn't matter.
It's just the color.
Talk about the specs.
But no, that's what people care about.
That's what I care about.
What are the colors?
I've had iPhones before.
Now, instead of my fine colors from last generation, now I can have my fine colors from this generation.
You know, it's funny.
This reminds me when we bought Aaron's car a little over a year ago, when we were first engaging with the salesperson, I think this was true of multiple different dealerships and multiple different salespeople.
They immediately wanted to know what exterior color we needed.
And when I said, eh, you know, we really don't care.
It's we were actually more particular about the interior color.
And they were like, wait, what?
Usually that's the only thing anyone cares about is what the exterior color is.
And I think that that's kind of the same here.
So I'm right there with you.
And the funniest thing about this with the iPhone is that almost everyone puts cases on their phones.
And so it almost doesn't matter what the color of the phone is for most people.
But you still care.
You see it in the ads.
You see it in the stores.
You still like, ooh, I want the purple one or whatever.
You still care about that.
And the funny thing is, we'll get to it in a second.
There's actually some huge upgrades in the iPhone 17, like massive new awesomeness that it has that the 16 did not.
But that was all secondary to here's the new colors.
But it looks just like the 16.
We'll get to the measurements in a second, but you'd be forgiven for thinking, oh, so they didn't actually change anything about it, the external case.
No, they did, but it's in ways that you would never notice.
Yeah, exactly.
To that end, we've got an additional two millimeters in height against the iPhone 16.
We lost 0.1 millimeters width and we gained 0.15 millimeters in thickness.
Just enough to make sure that the cases don't fit from the 16.
God, that's true.
I didn't even think about that.
You're right.
I mean, that's not why they did it, but like it looks just like the 16, but it's not just like the 16.
So it's a little bit different.
The screen is actually a little bit bigger.
I don't think I realized that.
Did they mention that?
And I totally blanked.
They did mention it.
And so those things, the things that you just read, particularly two millimeters of height, right?
Like there's, it is a different size screen, probably with different margins around it or whatever.
It's 6.3 versus 6.1 in the 16.
Yeah.
And the biggest news to me for this phone, always on and promotion.
It finally happened.
This is a spoiler alert since we're talking about the least of the phones that was announced, the Plane 17.
The Plane 17 gets ProMotion and always on display and all the other ones do too.
So if you're wondering when is Apple going to stop this bifurcation in their line where they give ProMotion to only the most expensive phones, when will they just put it on all their phones?
This is the year.
Yeah, I did not have that on my bingo card.
I really did not expect this.
This is great.
Yeah, 3000 nit peak outdoor brightness.
Obviously, that depends a lot on heat, as we know from using phones in the sun.
But that's really good.
The same ceramic shield as we were talking about with the Apple Watch, like the same new super strong glass.
Only on the front glass on this one.
Um, they talked about it in the future phones.
It's on both sides, but here it's only in the front class.
Um, pretty like that's an, that's an amazing screen upgrade for the non pro phone to finally get always on in promotion.
That's huge.
3000 nits peak brightness outdoor, which is, I think even more than the old pro thing.
Like when we talked about the prediction episode, uh, uh, last step, last episode, we took predictions about this event.
We said, yeah, um, the 17 will get promotion.
Um,
maybe always on screen and it did get that so it's the best case scenario um and the the brightness like it's they didn't talk about any heat dissipation stuff or whatever but like this really seems like essentially as good or better screen i was on as was on the 16 pro which you would think would happen every year like oh well you have a year and there's a pro thing and the next year the pro features trickle down but apple had been stopping that from happening for so long now on that front one of the things that we did talk about is still not yet confirmed
How much RAM does this thing have?
We don't know.
It seems like after we recorded last week's episode, the rumors kind of switched volume and people said, actually, the 17 won't be 12.
It'll just be eight.
And I don't know what the 17 has, but it seems like the rumors are leaning more heavily towards it having eight instead of 12, which fine, whatever.
That's my one disappointment in the potential specs.
Again, we don't have confirmation from Apple because they don't like to talk about that.
But if it has eight gigs, oh, well.
You know, this looks real good, and we're also starting to learn more about Ceramic Shield 2, which they said has three times better scratch resistance.
Music to my ears, gentlemen.
I believe you can defeat it.
I'm sure I can.
We talked about this last week, too.
It was kind of a vague, like, I don't know, maybe.
Seven layer anti-reflective coding.
They didn't mention this for the watch.
So I think the watch doesn't have it, but every phone has this.
And this presentation was weird in that they would talk about a feature with the introduction of a product and then casually mention a similar feature with future products.
And you're like, wait, is that the same one that you spent seven sentences on earlier?
Or is it a different lesser one?
But as far as I've been able to determine this anti-reflective coding that we mentioned as a possibility in the last episode is on all the phones.
And I don't know what it's going to look like or people will even notice.
But this, you know, again, this year they're doing it, everything, everything.
Everybody has ceramic shield too, at least on the front glass.
Everybody has the anti-reflective thing.
Everyone has always on display.
Everyone has promotion.
It's a good year for sharing of technology.
Which I am so here for.
One of the things that I particularly whined about incessantly in years past was particularly when the camera systems were quite a bit better on the big phones and not as good on the regular size phones.
And I am really, really happy when Apple does exactly what they're doing here and what you said.
They're sharing the same tech, or as far as we can tell, it's the same tech across all of these different devices.
And yes, there's differences here and there, but broadly speaking, a lot of the same tech is going across every device, which I'm really excited about.
Uh, they specifically said the ceramic shield two has hardness to protect from everyday scratches, which again, sign me up.
Yeah.
We'll see.
You got to tell us about your phone side.
When you get this one, Casey, you're the true test because you were scratching that.
You should not put a, I've had this debate with myself.
Should I put a screen protector on or not?
Do not put a screen protector on it and see.
Because how else can you tell?
I don't know if I'm willing to make that trade, but we'll see.
This gets the A19, which is a 3 nanometer process, a 16-core neural engine, 6-core GPU, 2 performance, 4 efficiency, 5-core GPU, and there are now neural accelerators in each GPU core.
Now, what's interesting about the A19, too, like this.
So I was doing some research earlier on Mastodon and going through spec sheets.
We have three phones or three phone families that all have A19 based things.
The 17 has the A19.
The Air has the A19 Pro, and the iPhone 17 Pro also has the A19 Pro.
But the two A19 Pros on the next two phones are not the same.
And the A19 in the regular phone and the A19 Pro in the iPhone Air are very similar to each other.
So it's actually...
it took a lot of digging to try to figure out what is the difference between these three processors at all?
Like that, like the iPhone airs version of the pro processor doesn't seem like the pro.
And so as far as I can tell, all three phones, uh,
have the same number of processor cores, they have the same neural engine, it seems, and the same GPU cores, but the two bottom phones have five GPU cores, and the Pro phones have six GPU cores.
But...
The middle one's still called Pro.
And so what that seems to be is they mentioned it later in the introduction of the A19 Pro.
They mentioned they had increased like the L3 cache that lets the A19 Pro perform a lot better and more efficiently than the A19.
That seems to be present in the version of it that's in the Air.
So that's what A19 Pro seems to mean is it has an additional cache for the processor cores.
Nothing else appears to be different between the iPhone Air's version and the iPhone 17's version of this chip.
So this is the problem of Apple not giving tech specs because the
like I said, with them saying features in different parts of the presentation and wondering if that's meaningful.
When they talked about the A19 Pro, they said a bunch of stuff about the CPU cores.
They didn't say about it when they introduced the A19.
Does that mean the A19 doesn't have them or do they just not say it?
We don't know.
But like things like the, I forget what it is.
When we get down to that section, I have notes on it.
I'll read them.
But like,
it's unclear from the presentation whether like marco said whether these are all basically the same thing with just they're just binned and clocked differently or whatever or whether there really is like a difference in the cpu course like once they so we get like die shots of these or people start testing them we'll find out but still like from what we can tell from the presentation this is a year where the difference between the
Pro and non pro phones isn't particularly large.
And so then again, it's a good year for the non pro phones.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like if you're if you're in the market for the regular 17 and you don't get the pro phones, this seems like a good year to buy because they did take a big leap and it puts them closer to the pros than they usually are.
And as for the A19 family, there's something else that they didn't mention in the presentation.
I don't know why, but I guess it's too nerdy.
There's a paper we'll link to on the security.apple.com website called Memory Integrity Enforcement, A Complete Vision for Memory Safety in Apple Devices.
And in that paper, it says in MIE, which is how they abbreviate memory integrity enforcement, every memory allocation is tagged with a secret.
The hardware guarantees that later requests to access memory are granted only if the request contains the correct secret.
If the secrets don't match, the app crashes and the event is logged.
This allows developers to identify memory corruption bugs immediately as they occur.
MIE is built right into Apple hardware and software in all models of iPhone 17 and iPhone Air, and offers unparalleled, always-on memory safety protection for our key attack services, including the kernel, while maintaining the power and performance that users expect.
In addition, we're making EMTE, which is the underlying technology that is based on its...
created by arm available to all apple developers xcode as part of a new enhanced security feature that we released earlier this year during wwdc this is actually kind of a big deal like they're always cranking the dial on features in step with their silicon so for example wwdc we mentioned like the uh
per cycle tracing of what's happening in your program, but that's only on M4 SOCs or later, like it's tied to the silicon because there's special support for it.
This is similar where they've been working on this.
You can read the paper.
They've been working on this for five years now, working with ARM to figure out how can we make
Memory access safer and more secure And like arm came up with this tagging thing and puts like a cryptographic secret stuff But Apple said it's not good enough because we can see ways around it.
And so they work with them and anyway This is only on a 19 stuff I would imagine that is also only going to be on m5 or maybe even m6 But it just shows how Apple is Apple's silicon and software and operating system stacks
are all of a unit and they will embark on five year long projects like this to make their stuff even more hardened so i guess the the software that's running your apple studio display 2 in the future will be super secure because it has memory integrity enforcement and i would assume every a series chip from this point forward will and i assume eventually every m series chip will it's kind of cool we'll probably talk more about it in a future episode if i read the paper and find more stuff
Yeah, I was actually planning to talk to you privately about how this would maybe be an overtime where we unpack this a little bit more aggressively.
I haven't had time to read it yet today.
Yeah, exactly.
Same.
But I will say that a lot of the Apple nerds that I follow, engineers that work at Apple, a lot of them were very happy to announce this on Mastodon today.
So this, I suspect, is a very big deal.
Like John said, I just also haven't had the chance to dig into it yet.
Oh, yeah.
It's like from a nerdy security perspective, it's a very big deal.
And it just reinforces like, you know, we don't talk about this too often because it doesn't usually come up for us, fortunately.
But like if I was doing really sensitive work that I had to be really confident that I wasn't going to be hacked or something.
I would do it on an iPhone because the iPhone security is top notch in the industry.
And they're always finding new ways to make it better.
So this kind of thing, this is really important to somebody.
And it might not be like us or you today.
But overall, this dramatically improves the security of the platform.
So this is great news.
All right, moving back to the hardware, the battery gets eight more hours of video playback compared to the iPhone 16.
I don't know what I would recommend as a metric for battery life, but I kind of hate this as a metric because I will never sit there and watch video on my iPhone for eight straight hours.
It's just not a thing.
On the one hand, like you're right, it is a bad metric because we all know that if you're watching video, it's just one tiny corner of the chip that has like the H.265 encoder or decoder on it is doing all the work.
And that's not representative of anything.
But on the other hand, places where people really care about battery life, I see people watching movies on their phone on the plane all the time.
And that's where you care about those hours.
Can I get through the movie?
I use my phone in the airport.
I'm going to use it when I get off the plane.
Do I also have enough battery life to watch the movie?
Yeah, it's just exercising that one tiny corner of the chip.
But it still is impressive for a phone with essentially a very similar size battery to its predecessor to get eight more hours out of.
That's got to be the A19 essentially having a more efficient video decode hardware on it.
which is not, again, not representative of general battery life, but is impressive for a one-year change.
So I can see why they're bragging about it.
You can get half of your charge in 20 minutes if you're using a wire.
There's apparently 10 minutes of charge.
We'll give you eight hours of video playback.
So there's some fast charging here.
And I don't know if we're going to have a chance to talk about it, but apparently they came out with a new USB-C charger, a slim USB-C charger that flexes between 40 and 60 watts, depending on how hot the charger is.
uh i haven't had much time to look into that personally and so we probably won't talk about it today but we'll get to it at some point i think you literally just covered the entire story oh okay good deal that's it there we go what does the charger look like i haven't even seen it is it it looks just like their um their dual uh 36 watt charger that comes with the airs or that can come with the airs the mac yeah that thing okay exactly right
Anyways, the cameras, we are getting a 48 megapixel main camera, which I really don't like how they're handling this.
I get it, but I don't like it.
So they said they're really leaning into this whole multi-lens thing where there's one physical camera.
That's 48 megapixels.
But they're saying, well, it's basically the same as an optical quality telephoto lens 2X because they're just going to crop it.
And I'm not saying that's inaccurate, but they keep saying as though they're like seven physical lenses on these cameras.
And that's just that isn't accurate.
Now, yes, you can basically squint and see how they got there.
And I don't think that they're lying or misleading.
I just don't personally care for the way they classify this.
It used to be fine for marketing, but then there was always a tech spec section that broke it down better, and they took away the tech spec sections from the website.
You can still get this info if you dig for it, but it's much harder to find than it used to be.
But anyway, as far as I can tell, this 48-megapixel main...
it's essentially the same as the old main camera on like the pros as far as i can tell it's unchanged from the iphone 16 pros one one x camera yeah and we don't know that for a fact because they're so vague like remember a couple years they've said oh it seems like it's unchanged but it turns out it actually was a new sensor and they just didn't mention it but spec wise it looks very similar to the old one x camera so the one x camera doesn't seem like where the action is happening certainly not on the 17th
Yeah, and to be clear, they don't change the One X camera every year.
There have been years where it has literally been unchanged from the previous year.
That happens more frequently with the wide and the telephoto cameras, but it does occasionally happen to the One X camera.
But this seems like it's one of those years.
But the One X camera also is already really good and needed the least improvement of all three of them.
So that's – I consider it –
unfortunate whenever there's a new phone revision that doesn't touch the main camera but it's not a deal breaker because the main camera is already really good and they always touch the software anyway so your pictures will look a little bit different when you upgrade us um the ultra wide on the 17 is where things change it gets a 48 megapixel ultra wide and that's replacing a 12 megapixel ultra wide on the 16 so big bump for the ultra wide and that's the only other camera on this phone so you've got the one x and now you've got a 48 megapixel ultra wide which is pretty good and
It has... Well, you brought this in here, Casey.
Do you know how they're doing this?
You said fake lenses, 12 megapixel 1X macro.
What does that?
Which one of these two cameras does that?
I don't know.
So historically, the macro is the wide.
It's the 0.5.
Ultra wide.
Yeah, that makes sense to me, especially since if the ultra wide is actually 48 megapixel, maybe you can get...
12 megapixel macro out of the way we know it's the ultra wide is that the iphone's the iphone air has the same 1x camera and does not support macro process of elimination yep so therefore it's the 0.5 but anyway that's not where the action is happening speaking of things that are that are improved on every single iphone this year and they introduced it with the plain old 17 the bottom of the line phone turn that camera turn that phone around and
And the front facing camera has finally been significantly upgraded.
They've improved it a little bit over the years, but it has always lagged far behind.
So now they really bragged about this 18 megapixel center stage front camera with a square sensor.
And they use that square sensor to allow you not, not to have to rotate your phone to get like a landscape orientation selfie.
Cause it just basically does sensor crop.
Um,
And this is a big change.
It's a better camera.
It's a more versatile camera for old people like me who have trouble holding the camera at various angles for doing selfies.
You don't, you can just leave the camera in whatever orientation you're comfortable holding it.
And if two more people come into the selfie shot, you can just tap on the screen and it will crop differently and put them in.
And center stage, it will track where people are and try to get everybody in the picture.
This is a big upgrade for the selfie camera.
Maybe not compared to the Android world where they tend to have fancier cameras on the front.
But on the iPhone, I've always felt like they've sort of
not taking the front camera seriously enough, even though there was a past year where they're like, now we're taking the front camera seriously.
We know how much you use it.
They took it more seriously, but then they let it languish for a while.
So here's another big upgrade.
Every single phone has this new front-facing 18 megapixel center stage camera, and it is a big upgrade of over what it used to be.
Yeah, that's a huge deal.
I mean, the only thing I'm a little concerned about is that when they use the term center stage on the laptop cameras and the Mac cameras, what you get is a big wide angle camera.
optical camera that they crop pretty aggressively to, quote, keep yourself centered.
And you see this, I believe the iPads also have this.
And what we've seen so far when they've done this with these cameras is the cropping of the large sensor creates very, very crappy pictures because it's relying a lot on cropping to achieve its optical breadth of range.
This might be better in the phones.
Historically, the phone cameras, the phone's front cameras usually are better than the front cameras in Macs and iPads.
So it's probably going to be better.
How much better?
We don't know.
So this is the kind of thing that I think pay attention to reviews and sample photos of the new front cameras.
This remains to be seen.
It could be really good, but so far Apple has never delivered a quote center stage front camera that was good.
So we'll see.
They did say this is wider angle than the previous one.
So it goes wider, but I'm not sure it goes as wide as center stage.
Like center stage goes so wide that you can like get your fingers on the keyboard with like the desk view thing.
So I think this is probably wider than it used to be, but not that much wider and it should have enough megapixels to make up for it.
But hope so.
We shall see.
The other thing that they're doing, which also was mentioned, I forget where it was mentioned because I copied it in the notes everywhere.
Whatever phone they mention this feature on, it's on all the phones.
Dual capture video where you can record front and back camera simultaneously.
According to Apple's website, every single one of the new phones announced has that feature, including the plain old 17.
So you can try to get your own reaction while you're filming your kid play basketball like they showed in the video, and that's cool.
Yep, I dig that.
I'm excited about this front camera.
I...
I am a devout day one user.
We've talked about this in the past.
Day one is like a journaling app.
And I try to record something every day.
And I usually try to take at least one picture every day.
And a lot of the times, if we're going out to dinner with friends or something like that, I'll just take a picture with a selfie camera.
And I am very bad at it because I'm an old.
And it is not particularly good quality.
I mean, if I was really...
trying to get these as heirloom, you know, quality pictures.
They're terrible, especially in low light situations.
They're freaking awful.
But the point is just to help me remember and little else.
And so anyways, I am really excited for this.
I agree with you, Marco, that they haven't ever really delivered on this in a really big way, but they're saying all the right things.
And I really like what they're doing with the square sensor.
So you can, you know, do landscape or portrait all within that without moving the phone.
And it is far easier to hold the phone physically in portrait if they can kind of fake their way into a landscape photo.
I am really surprisingly excited about this.
I think this is going to be great.
Then iPhone Air.
It is the iPhone Air.
That is a thing.
It is official.
No 17.
Yeah.
What are they going to do next year?
Is it the iPhone 18 Air?
Is it the iPhone Air 18?
Is it the new iPhone Air?
I'm guessing it's just the new iPhone Air.
I mean, they could say the iPhone Air 2.
Who knows?
Or is it the iPhone Air was a mistake?
We're never making one like this again.
We'll get to it, but we'll see how it sells.
They've tried a lot of things.
It's just interesting that they didn't put the 17 in there or a 26.
Yeah, I mean, either way, this is something that simultaneously really excites me and I also feel like isn't for me.
I think I'm there myself.
Yeah, I think this looks incredible.
I'm sure it will feel phenomenal in hand.
I am super duper excited about it.
I also really love the marketing hero image that they're using with a very, very tall, very thin A and then the phone itself is the I and a very tall, very thin R. I'm really into that.
I think it's great.
Um, but this is as expected, it is extremely thin and it sits kind of between from what I can tell the 17 and 17 bro in both like kind of where it is in the lineup and also physically, uh, in terms of screen real estate.
But what do we got?
We've got a polished titanium frame with a mirror finish ceramic shield on both sides, which they claim is their most durable design yet.
Um,
Again, we shall see and challenge accepted.
But they also really leaned into something.
John, would you like to talk about what they leaned into?
They talked about their iconic plateau.
I'm not sure it's iconic if this is the first camera to have our first phone to have that kind of plateau.
But anyway, yes, they're using plateau, which makes sense geologically speaking, because we used to call the thing the camera mesa.
And a Mesa is just like a smaller version of a Plateau.
So now that it spans the whole width of the phone, it has gone from Mesa to Plateau.
So I accept their nomenclature, but it is interesting to hear them saying that.
I think they had used to say like camera bump occasionally, but now they're not only are they calling it the Plateau, now it's iconic.
So, okay.
All right.
I'm not sure how iconic it is considering it looks exactly like the Google Pixel camera.
yeah so then it's a plateau that's been there for years but whatever um i do like the polished edges we've had phones with polished edges before they they gather fingerprints and they're not the most practical but boy do they look pretty like if you're going to make this this phone looks like a piece of jewelry right like that's that's the look they're going for it'll probably be one of the best looking phones without a case if you ignore the iconic camera plateau um
But yeah, it looks really nice.
5.6 millimeters thick.
Sorry, rumor is not 5.5.
And the durability, we shall see.
Now, before we move on to the screen, the physical attributes of this.
How much does it weigh?
Because it's thin.
It's size between the Pro and the Pro Max.
It weighs 165 grams, which is 12 grams heavier.
No, 12 grams lighter than the 17...
21 grams lighter than the 17 pro so it's not that much lighter than the plain 17 it's a lot thinner but not that much lighter uh to give a comparison the iphone 13 mini was uh 24 grams lighter than the air so the 13 mini was a way smaller phone obviously but the 30 minute was lighter uh to give another comparison the plain iphone 12 not the mini but the plain iphone 12 was three grams lighter
than the air now granted the air is has a much bigger screen it is a bigger phone length and width wise but it's very difficult i mean especially for people like me who don't have a good familiarity with metric for me to gauge what is something that's 12 grams lighter than the iphone 17 feel like is it going to feel light or is it going to feel heavier because it's so thin it will feel dense you know when you get something that's small but it weighs the same amount of something that's big the big thing feels lighter because you expect it to be heavier
Anyway, if you're looking for this to be a huge weight difference, 12 grams does not seem like a big difference.
So I can't wait to go to a store and pick this thing up and say, does it feel heavy or does it feel light?
I know it's going to feel thin.
You can see that it's thin, but will it feel heavier or lighter than the 17?
Again, it is lighter than the 17 by 12 grams.
As a point of comparison, when we went to titanium from the 14 Pro to the 15 Pro, we went from 206 grams in the base Pro to 187.
That's not that much of a savings, but it did feel significant.
Oh, it felt big.
But weren't those phones the same volume-ish?
yeah they were about the same volume so but it did feel lighter because that's what that's the wild card like like again because this is so thin will it feel heavier because you don't expect something that thin to feel that dense you know what i mean right and so i i think it will feel noticeable and it will be the combination of
of feeling the thickness and the lighter weight.
It will feel better, but as you were just going through, iPhones have gotten, especially the Pros, have gotten a lot heavier over the last few years than they used to be.
We had a little bit of savings when we went 14 to 15 from titanium, and then we just ate it right back up again with the 16 and now the 17 Pros.
They've gotten a lot heavier than they were even just five years ago.
The Air kind of brings us back there, but
As you mentioned, it's not as much lighter as you might think, mainly because the heaviest parts of the phones usually are the batteries, and the Air is mostly battery.
Now, it's not as big as the batteries in the Pros or the regular ones, but it's a huge battery.
The entire body of the phone below the plateau is basically just all battery.
There's almost nothing else in there.
It's like battery on the front of the screen.
It is a big phone length and width wise.
If they had decided to make this phone...
either the same size as 17 or smaller than the 17 it would have been way lighter but then the battery life would have been way worse right like so it's interesting like they chose to put this phone in between the pro and the pro max so it's it's like it's bigger than the than the the pro it's bigger than the plane 17 if you look at the phone head-on it looks like it's a bigger phone that gives them room to put more battery they use the heaviest materials they have they use titanium essentially because we had to which i i kind of believe them like to try to make it not bendy
Titanium is the way to go because you have such a thin rim around the thing.
I feel like they could have done unibody aluminum to save weight and keep the same rigidity.
But who knows what the limits are there?
I don't maybe maybe this thickness.
They didn't have a choice.
Glass front and back.
You know, it's it's a pretty looking phone.
And I'll take them at their word about the bendability.
I'm sure YouTubers will be bending this thing like crazy.
But again, they didn't tout the battery chemistry or anything like that.
We'll get to the battery life in a second.
But they said, oh, it's fine.
But you can't get around the fact that it's got seemingly the same SoC as the Pro phone with one of the GPU cores disabled.
Maybe it's underclocked.
The screen, just to get this out of the way, at 6.5 inches, it's the same as all the other screens.
ProMotion, always on, 300-minute brightness, ceramic shield, improved anti-reflective coating.
It's a screen that's in between the size of the regular and the Pro Max.
So, yeah, this is a product waiting for people to decide whether they want to buy this thing.
Oh, and the colors, these are the least daring colors of the entire lineup.
The dishwater's back.
Yeah.
Sky blue, light gold, cloud white, space black.
And if you look at all these colors, they are barely there.
Yeah, it's very similar to the way the new MacBook Airs have that sky blue, but you really have to look very hard just to notice it.
It looks like that kind of difference between them.
Yeah, especially since the sky blue is more noticeable in the rim than the back.
The back is the same way you say, is that a silver MacBook Air or the blue one?
You're going to look at this, is that the cloud white one or the sky blue one?
Well, they're both in the sky, I guess.
My white balance is off.
I can't tell you.
I do think it's interesting too, like when you look at like how they were selling this to us, what they kept talking about over and over again was durability and battery life.
They drove those points home hard.
And it makes sense.
Like that's the – when you look at a phone like this, that's what most people would have concerns about.
Like, hey, is that thing –
Yeah, look at that.
Is that going to bend in half the moment I touch it?
And also, does it have any battery life whatsoever?
So it does make sense that they did spend so much time talking about durability and battery life.
I do think it's hilarious that when John Ternus was introducing the battery life topic...
He had just finished talking.
He's like, and this has amazing battery life.
And then without even seemingly taking a breath, I don't even know if there was punctuation between that and the next thing.
He instantly introduces the MagSafe battery pack.
I mean, I think you got to the point before where it's like it's addressing people's concern.
They're like, well, what if I don't believe you?
And what if it turns out it doesn't have good battery life?
What then?
And Apple says, well, we've got another thing you can buy from us.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it's not it's amazing.
I mean, come on.
It's not a vote of confidence in their battery, but it is exactly what you said.
Trying to reassure people to let them know we're going to have we can do something here.
And that that battery package will jump to it now.
As Casey disappointingly found out, this is a battery pack for the iPhone air only.
This is the only iPhone it works with.
And you're like, well, they're all MagSafe.
It should work with all of them.
I don't think so because I think this thing goes up so high on the back of the phone because it's so thin that it can't go up that high on any of the other phones because their various camera plateaus and mesas are in the way.
So this is iPhone Air only.
It's very slim.
And by the way, the battery pack does not have any place where you can plug a wire into it.
Oh, I didn't know that.
It charges through the phone only from what I've been able to gather in these scant hours.
that was a feature of the old battery pack that most people didn't know was there like you could the old battery pack could be charged by the phone yes but i don't think anyone did it though i think this is the only way this one does oh i don't like that still seems like a good like it's a good accessory for the air um and like i think they've done a good job like the bumper cases that we talked about last week they do have bumper cases for it if you want that in addition to regular cases by the way apple's regular a bunch of apple's regular cases for the air have open bottoms inexplicably but like whatever
I like the open bottom.
I don't know what makes Apple decide whether or not to have open bottom, but for the Air, they decided to.
It's a pretty well-realized product.
This is because this is the first.
So they just announced the 17.
Then they do the 17 Air, or not the 17 Air.
Then they do the Air.
This is where they introduced the A19 Pro.
So this is where they started talking about the CPU features in more detail.
Does this also apply to the A19?
I don't know, but they said it in this part.
And they said, you know, performance cores have improved front end bandwidth and branch prediction.
50% increased last level cache.
What the hell is last level cache?
That's not really a term of art.
L3, they just wanted to, you know, marketing probably made them.
You're not allowed to say L3.
No one knows what that is.
And then the GPU cores, they really bragged about the GPU cores here.
Again, are these GPU cores different than the ones you bragged about in the iPhone 17 with the plain A9?
Or are they not?
I don't know.
So I don't think they are because in the compare page...
All three phones GPUs are described as with neural accelerators.
And that's the part they were talking about.
So and that's what's different from the previous generation GPU.
So it seems like the GPU cores themselves are the same across all three chips.
But there is just five of them in A19 and Airs Pro and then six of them in the Pro Pro.
Well, we'll have to see when people start testing these things, but this is the place where they didn't say this about the A19, but they did say it about the A18 Pro, so we don't know if it applies to all of them or just the one, but they said it's got double floating point math rates, up to three times the peak CPU compute of the A18 Pro.
Maybe that applies to all the A19 chips or maybe just the Pro, but that is an impressive figure.
And I'm assuming it's mostly due to the embedded neural engines or inside the neural accelerators inside the GPUs.
Basically, they're saying if you want to use the GPU to do machine learning calculations instead of using the neural engine,
you can do that and this will do it better.
So that's why within, I'm assuming roughly the same power envelope, they're getting three times, and they say very carefully, peak GPU compute.
Doesn't mean like frame rates in games.
Maybe it translates to that, maybe not.
But it does mean how many computations can our GPUs do?
Because they have that embedded neural accelerator in each one, they can do more.
And they bragged about it saying, this is MacBook Pro levels of compute in an iPhone.
So I guess we're gonna have MacBook Pro levels compute in the Apple Studio Display 2.
yeah my my theory here on these chips is that this is the same chip all three of these are the same chip and it's being binned because again it seems like the only difference is number of gpu cores and the presence of those quote last level caches well gpu cores are pretty big so is cache on a silicon die cache is big the
And so if you have a defect and, you know, you lose some of your cache space or you lose your GPU core, you can bin that and you can put it in these lower models.
So it's probably the same chip being made, three different configurations.
It's usually bin based on memory, though.
Memory is so regular, I don't know if the errors would be there.
Anyway, someone was going to slice these things open and we'll find out.
But right now it's a bit of a mystery.
And also the clock speeds.
I'm just assuming that the errors, the SoC is clocked differently than the pros because it's got to be.
Oh, also, similar to some follow-up, by the way, MacRumors posted a thing earlier that they looked in the Xcode resources, and apparently they can confirm with their knowledge of certainty, they are pretty certain that the RAM amounts are 8 gigs for the 17 and 12 gigs for the Air and Pro.
yeah that was that was before just before the event and then in the week between when we recorded our prediction show and the event the rumors really were hurting it towards the 17 doesn't have 12 it just has eight but everybody else has 12 so that makes sense uh one thing that are two things that the air did get that are special to it because it's so darn thin and it has such a small battery is it got two new apple chips for wireless connectivity it got the n1
I guess that's for networking?
I don't know.
N1 implements Wi-Fi 7.
Cool.
Bluetooth 6.
Yay, another Bluetooth number.
I'm sure it'll be fixed this time.
The thread radio.
And as Apple said, they already make Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chips for the Apple Watch and the AirPods.
Now they make it for the phone.
Why does this one have the N1?
Because I'm assuming the N1 is, maybe they even bragged about it.
I forget.
takes less power to do these jobs than the chips they were getting from third parties.
So the N1 chip is there doing its job.
And also, Apple cell modem, not the C1.
They said, we did the C1 and we've got a follow-up chip.
I'm like, is the C2 ready?
No, the C2 is not ready.
But the C1X is ready.
And what's better about the C1X than the C1?
More GPU cores?
Supposedly it's...
It's twice as fast as the C1.
Okay.
And it's faster than the cell modem, the 16 Pro, the Qualcomm cell modem, the 16 Pro.
I'm assuming it doesn't do millimeter wave.
Like that's why it's not the C2.
Yeah, the iPhone Air does not support millimeter wave.
Right.
But most importantly for the iPhone Air, 30% less power than the C1.
So the C1X and the N1 are helping to make the iPhone Air possible by using less power to do a better job at all the things that they're doing.
Yeah, this is great stuff.
We're not that far off from Apple making all of their own cell modems.
It's probably next year.
If not, it'll be the one after that, but it's probably next year.
We're very close now.
So far, when the iPhone 16e was announced a few months back...
You know, that was the first one with Apple's cell modem in it, the C1.
And we were all wondering, like, hey, are there going to be any problems with it?
Is it going to perform worse?
And so far, it seems like it's fine.
It's like, you know, it launched and no one seems to have said anything afterwards.
I know it's, I saw recently, I forget who did it, but somebody tested, like, performance between the C1 and the Qualcomm modems.
And it's basically the same.
Like, it's, you know, better occasionally in some ways, worse occasionally in some ways, but it's roughly the same.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like when we, right after the CMOM was announced, someone did those tests and they said the same thing.
And here we are several months later and new tests are still saying the same thing.
Like you said, sometimes it's better.
Sometimes it's worse.
It doesn't have all the features of the Qualcomm one.
It's not as fast.
It's not as fast as the Qualcomm one, but for the role that it's playing in the 60 knee,
No news is good news.
Like, we don't hear anything about it, and it does what it does.
Now, I can see people being annoyed by, like, well, I live in one of the places where actually it's worse than my past phone's chip.
If you don't live in one of the places where it's better.
Who knows what determines that?
Because it's like a global situation.
So maybe it's not perfect, but...
there are no glaring problems and it's not like when uh what was it the intel cell modem versus the uh where everyone knew the intel was just worse all the time yeah that was my iphone 7 so no no news is good news on the c1 and yeah this is the end the n1 i'm assuming will do uh well and um because apple seems to be good at making these wi-fi and bluetooth chips and it's got what i believe to be the latest standard on all of them unlike the chips they're writing in max but maybe that'll get fixed in the m5 generation
According to Ternus, this is the most power efficient iPhone ever made.
And let's talk about the camera.
Yeah, we'd hope so.
Talking about the camera, 48 megapixels, 26 millimeter focal length, F1.6, 100% focus pixels, two times telephoto, which now uses machine learning, they said.
18 megapixels center stage selfie camera, same as the iPhone 17.
We talked about the dual capture stuff.
Video, you get Dolby Vision up to 4K at 60 frames per second versus 120 frames per second on the 17 Pro and Pro Max.
eSIM only worldwide.
Piss off, China, where apparently, from my understanding is, SIMs are still very common.
Internists called them decades-old pieces of plastic, which, you're not wrong.
That was remarkable.
The way he so derisively talked about SIMs, it's perfect.
It was pretty good.
Not enough room in the air for a SIM tray.
We'll see what they do with the other phone with that, but yeah, it's...
What gets sacrificed in the altar of thinness?
No more SIM card for you, which makes sense.
I believe they even said in the pro phones, I believe they even said that like the ones that don't have eSIMs have more batteries.
That's right.
Because that was also, by the way, that was another great job by the rumor mill.
They not only leaked that fact, but leaked the geometry of where and how the battery, the SIM tray would be and how much bigger the battery would be.
That's super duper leaked.
But anyway, we'll get to that when we get to that phone.
So yeah, the battery, it's all day battery life.
What does that mean?
Well, it depends on when it's said.
How many hours of video playback?
That's what I want to know.
So the Air gets 27 hours video playback, the iPhone 17 Pro 33, Pro Max 39.
Yeah, it's got to be under, everything's got to be underclocked on it, but they're trying their best to say this is going to be all day battery life.
Only the people who buy these and try to use it as their phone will be able to say for sure.
I mean, one thing that also is likely to be very different between the Air and the Pros, they both do have a very similar Pro chip in them, but the Airs don't have the new thermal system.
So my guess is the Airs will probably thermal throttle before the Pros will, which actually in some ways might be better for battery life in the sense that they'll pull down the speeds earlier, but...
I bet they just clock lower period all the time.
I don't know.
They historically don't do a lot of that.
Apple Silicon, they don't usually have different clocks within the same family.
Well, like a lower peak clock is what I'm getting at.
You know what I mean?
Obviously, there's no one clock speed that these things all run at.
They just go up and down in clock speed, but I imagine the peaks seem to be lower.
But people will test it and find out.
In the benchmarks, you'll see the thermal throttling, and also you'll see if the peak is lower.
So once people get these phones in their hands, they'll test.
Apple certainly wasn't saying in the presentation.
All right, the accessories.
We get a low-profile MagSafe battery.
God, I was so excited, fellas.
I was so excited because, if you recall, I impulse bought that battery on the show just because you two jerks wouldn't buy one yourselves, and I ended up loving it, and I still use it from time to time.
I love the original one, and it's not perfect, but I loved it, and the integration.
My wife loves it, too, and she was also excited about the new one until she found out she can't use it.
Yep.
iPhone Air only because, as we discussed, too tall.
And one of the reasons she was excited about it is because that's like one of her only remaining lightning devices.
Yep.
Exactly.
For me, it's that in my AirPods case.
And so I'm halfway there.
I'm living on a prayer.
Anyways, they are also offering a translucent case that's less than a millimeter thick in frost and shadow colors.
Uh, they're also doing a color matched bumper, which I was really enthusiastically, uh, excited for.
I, I, I enjoyed the bumpers back in the iPhone four era.
Uh, and I think it's cool.
They're coming back.
And then the rumor mill, speaking of absolutely nailing it cross body strap, uh, it attaches a phone case corners and what they didn't say, or I don't recall having read in the rumor mill, but it looks cool is they did or did not.
They did say this.
Okay, my bad.
Well, anyways, it's lined with thin flexible magnets, which is pretty cool.
That's like how you adjust the length of it.
It's kind of like the old, I feel like it's like the old Milanese loop, but it seems like it's kind of like infinitely adjustable.
But anyway, the pictures of it show that- Will it pinch your chest hair?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean just the adjustability back and forth.
But the pictures show that it attaches at the case corner.
So if you go to Apple's case accessory pages in the store, they all have different views of the case.
But now they have a bottom view.
And you have to look on the bottom view if you see the two bottom corners, the two holes, two holes in each corner for the...
the thing to loop through like the lanyard thing not all apple cases have those holes in it but you need it to be there for the uh cross body strap to work and it seems like it attaches with this tiny whisper thin fishing line type thing that doesn't look particularly sturdy but i'm sure again someone will get this and try to do the yank test if you have this if you have your phone on a cross body strap can someone just walk by and go yoink
and rip the thing off kind of like how in movies when anyone is wearing a necklace in a movie and someone wants to take it off them all you do is touch it and it just you can rip it off their neck instantly have you ever tried that with a real necklace that's not how real necklaces work most of the time uh certainly they don't come off intact all the time anyway um the cross body strap exists it's got magnets it attaches to some apple cases and i've had a bunch of third-party cases as well
all right iphone 17 pro the most pro iphone yet by a lot it's the proiest it's the proiest of all the of all the phones can i just say the opening shot of the orange and i was like oh my god it looks like it's a pretty good orange they did it it's a good thing you don't follow the rumors because right after we recorded last week's episode there was a parts leak of the usbc port oh i don't think i saw that either it's
Parts leak for the USB-C port for the orange phone, which is like such a nothing part, but you know how they color their ports to match the cases.
And that port was an actual discernible orange.
I'm like, oh, Marco's going to be excited by this because it's not...
bronze or timid yeah it's not copper you know brown yeah i i still maintain that it would be better to see this in person before deciding to buy it but because apple's artwork is not always exactly on point but at the very least it is uh it is not dishwater orange
On that point, the very first thing I did after the event ended was go to YouTube and see people posting their hands-on videos of it.
And it does look more pale in the hands-on videos than it does in Apple's marketing shots.
And also, the flat part of the back, where the glass is, where the Qi charger and stuff are...
that looks substantially lighter than the rest of the case in all the YouTube hands-on videos.
So I would say we don't know for sure how good of an orange it is, but it certainly seems to be in the good orange family.
That's great news to me.
Because honestly, I guess we're not talking about this yet, but when I saw the hands-on videos from people of the air, I actually really didn't like it.
Oh, really?
The Air and the hands-on videos, obviously it's very much showing off how shiny those case bands are around it.
I don't think I like the shiny case band look anymore.
I never liked it when it was on the pros either.
They're like surgical grade stainless steel polish.
I never liked that either.
And I think I don't like it either on the Air.
And the Air's colors don't do anything for me.
Whereas the Pro is like, oh, this has this cool orange.
And even if it's not as bold in person as I hope it would be, it still looks pretty good overall in the videos I've seen so far.
So I think like I was expecting the Pro to win me over with specs, but the Air to win over my heart.
And like, I got to have that cool looking thing.
And in fact, as soon as I saw the videos of the Air, I'm like, ooh, that's not for me.
Huh.
I'll have to look at this because to jump ahead, you know, I don't think I'm going to be buying an Air, but I do think it looks, from only the Apple presentation, it looks super cool.
And I am really intrigued by it.
I don't think I want to go that route for a few different reasons that we are yet to talk about that are features in the 17 Pro that the Air does not share, and most especially the camera system.
But I am intrigued by it.
And so I will be going to an Apple store, presumably, before we record next and checking it out for a little bit.
I do think the air will probably feel better than it looks.
That is a risk.
I'm like, don't pick one up.
Just don't pick it up.
Since we're talking about the colors, the iPhone 17 Pro comes in only three colors.
It comes in silver, cosmic orange,
and deep blue and that's it no black no gray no space black no white just silver cosmic orange and blue which is a strange lineup like kudos to not making them all look like the air lineup where it's just like dim pro things the orange one definitely stands out but strange and very limited lineup of colors for this one no this is great this is the first time in a long time
possibly the entire history of the iPhone, arguably.
History of the iPhone Pro, for sure.
No, the entire, I think, honestly, this might be the entire history of the iPhone, the first time in a long time where the Pro has the best colors of the whole lineup.
i think the 17 has the best colors well that's that's you um you i know you like the orange but the other two colors silver is meh and the deep blue is like the silver looks stupid but i think the blue is great i think the blue and orange are both great yeah i like the blue now and grant you know if you're not like a blue or orange person and you're looking at that silver i i would understand if you if you didn't like these colors that that would be fine
You know, get a case like everyone else and, you know, call it a day.
Maybe get a vinyl wrap.
Who knows what people do?
But, you know, these I really applaud Apple for making real colors in the pros like, yes, there is no, you know, dark black or space gray.
But that's because they have made every single other pro phone available in four shades of black and gray.
And we had so many of them.
They used it up.
They used up gray.
They depleted the world's supply of gray.
And now we have real colors.
Thank God.
I want them to do RGB, though.
I want there to be a reddish one, a greenish one, a bluish one.
That's the thing that the 17 and the 16 and the 15 and the 14 always do.
There's a yellow one, a red one, a blue one.
This just has an orange one and two other ones that look like space colors.
Honestly, I mean, again, we haven't seen any of these in person yet.
We'll see how they look.
I think that blue is also going to be a sleeper hit.
I think the only reason the blue is not getting more of the attention today is that the orange really pops a lot more and is more novel for the pros.
I think people are going to think the blue one is black.
I don't know.
It...
It looks obviously – we've seen Apple do like very dark blues like in the MacBook Air, very dark blues where in person they just look black.
This looks lighter than that in the pictures, but we'll see how it looks in person.
But I think if they did their usual thing of like three grays and that blue, I think we'd all be saying that's a really nice blue.
I'm going to go for that one.
So I think it will be a nice color.
I mean I think it looks great.
I like the orange a lot.
It is not –
for me, even though I do really like it.
And I know a lot of people like Marco, like Steven, and I think Jason, if I'm not mistaken, all of whom are very excited about this orange.
And I'm excited for you guys.
I am super, super thrilled that Apple gave us something more than, you know, a vague whiff of color.
I'm really excited that the pro phones finally got color.
I agree, John.
It could have been different.
It could have been maybe even a little bit better.
But I'm not going to kick them at this point.
I'm going to congratulate them that I'm really excited that there's something that looks like colors here.
And I'm also... Like you said, they got color, singular.
I really do feel like they got color.
They got one color and the other two are...
It looks good, though.
And we can thank, I think, for this.
I think we can thank aluminum for this because Apple has been making really good, saturated, colored aluminum finishes since the iPod, since the iPod Mini in particular.
They were really good since all the way back then with the iPod Mini at making colored aluminum in nice, bold, rich colors.
And all these dishwater colors they've been making for the last few years, that was all glass and titanium and steel and everything.
Now that they ship aluminum again on the ProPhone for the first time in a long time, and we have bold colors again.
Thank God.
Yep, I'm into it.
It's the first unibody iPhone, which again, maybe there were rumors about this, but I don't recall having seen any.
What are you talking about?
We did a whole show where we talked about this exact thing.
About it being unibody?
Yes.
Oh, all right.
We said that exact word, I believe.
I mean, I knew, like, you know, the rumor mill, like, obviously had, like, you know, the case designs nailed.
But, like, I don't remember hearing that it was unibody.
Okay, thank you.
All right, scene.
I feel like I wish we had a better real-time search.
I'm pretty sure I actually literally said the word unibody.
It's a machine out of a single piece of aluminum.
Like, you could see this exact case leaked.
Yeah.
Anyway, it looks cool.
You talked about it on the show.
I don't know.
I feel like you're gaslighting me.
Anyway.
Oh, no.
Well, if I am, it's not on purpose.
I'll put it to you that way.
This whole case leaked.
And the reason they call it unibodies is because it is machined out of a single piece.
And as you said, though, remember I was talking about torsional rigidity because it is – because like the –
The sides connect with the back, connect with the top, connect with the other side.
The camera plateau is not like a band with a sandwich around it.
That's what I meant by unibody.
So anyway, this all leaked.
You two should have been paying more attention.
Forgive me if I did not say these exact words on the last show.
But anyway, this is all good because, as Marco said, it's all aluminum.
So it's lighter.
It's easier to anodize.
It transfers heat better.
You can, you know, and I think it's probably more rigid than it was because it is a more complete shell.
Remember when I was talking about how it's harder to repair because you can't go in through the back anymore.
You can only go in through the front for the cameras that you can take off that glass thing.
Oh, yeah.
It's all coming back to you.
You'll be shocked to learn that it has the new ceramic shield on the back and the front because that base has the big glass panel on the back.
Maybe we didn't make that clear last time someone asked the question, how are they supposed to get anything to work if it's all aluminum?
How is the signal going to get out?
Most of the back is taken up by a don't call it glass ceramic shield insert that's stuck in the middle of the aluminum thing.
So that's where like the Wi-Fi antenna is.
That's where the MagSafe things are.
But the iconic camera plateau is all aluminum and the rumored vapor chamber cooler is inside there.
It apparently contains deionized water and it's laser welded into the aluminum chassis.
Apparently the chassis has 20 times the thermal performance of the previous titanium.
Aluminum is much better than titanium as a heat sink material.
Well, aluminum is better than glass.
I think that's the real thing.
Yeah, lots of insulating things, like glass line thermos and stuff.
It's really good for insulation, not so much for heat transfer.
Well, that's because they create a vacuum.
But yeah, I get your point.
They have glass line thermos that don't draw a vacuum between the edges, I think.
Or maybe when I was a kid, because we used to break them accidentally.
Anyway, this also leaked, and Apple didn't talk about this, but from, I was pausing their like
you know, fake CGI images of the inside of the phone, and I'm pretty sure this is correct, that in this phone, the logic board that has all the electronics on it, all the chips on it, is horizontal near the top of the phone from left to right, like a strip.
For years and years, the logic board has been kind of along one edge, you know, as like a vertical thing.
Now the logic board fits horizontally towards the top of the phone, which means that the whole rest of the phone is battery.
without the logic board getting in the way the only thing gets the way is in the sim tray and we'll talk about that in a second but yeah this thing on the inside looks like the rumors said it would and it has the properties that we all hoped it would they really touted the vapor chamber cooler and the temperature and the cooling and what was their their brag was like a
40% better sustained performance over the 16 Pro.
That's what I was talking about with like, say you're playing a game for a long period of time.
How long does it take the thermal throttle?
What kind of frame rates can it maintain?
They're bragging about sustained performance.
I don't know if they even bragged at all about like peak performance or top level performance, but sustained performance is what this thing excels at because they've got a way to get the heat out.
And they showed the heat pipe, like going from the horizontal SOC, like logic board thing, essentially sending the heat down the length of the phone.
basically on top of where the battery is, although it's pointing outward, I'm assuming, so the heat is radiating out through the case or whatever.
But that's where it's moving the heat from the horizontal logic board down to the rest of the phone where there is no electronics.
Yeah, this looks very promising as like this should be a much better thermal design than before.
Now, like I was saying last time, if you just move the heat better out of the phone, that's not going to help the fact that like if you have a case around it that's insulating the heat from getting out, like which most people do, like it's not going to be amazing at that.
And the phone still has, you know, unless you buy the stupid thing that I buy, the phone still has no active cooling of like a fan on the outside or anything like that.
So like
it's still going to be limited to how much heat just passively dissipates through the case but making it you know easier for the heat to get to the case has got to help in certain contexts so this is a good sign and having i think it basically has more more mass to heat soak essentially because it's like with the titanium i think it was just took so long for the heat to transfer like could the heat ever get to the uh you know the upper corner of the phone when you're playing a game like
like well through the titanium it's going to take a long time for the heat to slowly heat up and crawl up to the corner whereas aluminum i feel like it will race up there and it'll basically fill the fill the volume of aluminum uh metal with the heat to spread the heat around so it'll take longer before it's heat soaked and by heat soak we mean that there's
not enough of a heat delta between the hot thing and the thing pressing up against the hot thing for heat to move at all and then now there's nowhere for the heat to go you need a temperature differential you need something that's one temperature to be next next to something that is a different temperature for the heat to move and if that difference gets too low uh then you're essentially heat soaked like there's no place except no place else for the heat to go except for out into the air which can be difficult with the case or whatever so
Again, we'll see when people start testing this.
But the design is promising, the materials are promising, and the things Apple's were touting are also promising.
In terms of the form factor of this thing, it is 7 grams heavier than the 16 Pro, and the Pro Max is 6 grams heavier than the 16 Pro Max.
So not much heavier, but heavier.
And both these phones are one-half of a millimeter thicker than
than their 16 predecessors so the pro phone is the proiest uh it is it is big it is thick it's got a big battery the pro max has the biggest battery that they ever shipped i think it's pushing like 500 milliamp hours um yeah and the uh even like the plateau is the biggest plateau the plateau is also they're touting like it's aluminum that's going to dissipate heat too this little plateau is doing plateau is doing some work and the rumor about the antenna lines going around the plateau turned out to be true they're doing it
So that's cool.
Maybe it'll have because if you think about it, that's a ton more of those little plastic antenna lines instead of just those tiny little strips around the edges.
Now it seems like the entire camera plateau has a line that goes all the way around it.
And I do wonder if that's going to make the signal reception a lot better.
Yeah, it looks very promising for a design.
And I think, you know, going back a second to like the weight and the battery size, you know, when Apple designs a Mac laptop, it seems like their philosophy for a long time and maybe not right now.
We'll see, you know, as we go forward.
But their philosophy for a long time was basically that Mac laptop battery life was solved.
They were good enough.
And therefore, every time you were able to increase the efficiency of the laptop, then instead of just increasing the battery life and leaving the battery the same size, they would shrink the battery down.
We heard the term that they were using internally was shedding excess battery.
And they would shrink the battery down and therefore reduce a lot of other things, size, weight, et cetera, but also peak battery life whenever they could.
It seems like they take the opposite approach to weight in the iPhone where they do whatever they can to save generally weight in the pro phones with these case design and materials changes and everything.
But then what they want to do is spend as much of those savings as possible on bigger batteries.
And that's why as the phones get bigger, they're making them heavier.
And, you know, each new generation, with the exception of that one savings we got from titanium, each new generation is like a couple millimeters bigger and more battery.
And now with this one, they made a big case design change with this new aluminum unibody and the new big plateau.
And this is a huge change in...
The case is probably much lighter.
They probably gained a decent amount of internal volume with the new Mesa design or Plateau design.
And so what do they do?
They made the battery a lot bigger.
It's like 20% bigger.
That's why the phone, despite the lighter case and everything, it got a little bit heavier.
Without the lighter case and everything, it would have gotten a lot heavier.
So at least they're keeping it in the range it was before.
I still think these phones are heavier than is ideal, but
Their philosophy with the phones is very clearly with the pro put as much battery that will fit in the case and we'll just deal with the weight.
And so I can't argue with the utility of that.
It does seem like most people, especially pro buyers, want that extra battery life.
Yeah.
Like when you have a line that this big and is diversified, this is the role of the probe to be the biggest, meanest, heaviest, hottest, most powerful.
Like that's that's its role.
Yeah.
And they continue to push it in that direction rather than like reeling it back in.
And the air gives even more breathing room.
It's like we've got these other phones with all sorts of sizes and shapes that we keep trying over there.
But the pros mission has always been clear.
and they lean into that pretty heavily with uh the features we'll get to in a little bit and even here on the on the e sim only models as we mentioned uh they're they're figured that they give you so you can look at the internals and see how much more battery we get well it's like one more square centimeter well what does that translate to apparently two hours of video playback because that's the only way apple measures battery anymore two additional hours of video playback for having e sim only why because the place where the sim tray would be we put battery there good cool
Before we move on, something I'm very curious about, are these going to be weighted in an odd way?
Are these going to be top-heavy, particularly the air?
Or maybe the air will be the opposite.
Maybe it'll be top-light since the battery is everywhere but the camera plateau.
No, I don't think so.
You'd think so volume-wise, but I think you're right that the battery is probably the most dense and heaviest part, and the battery is not.
in the sometimes the battery tucks up under the plateau a little bit but it's mostly not there it's mostly the the cameras which have the highest volume of air inside an iphone i imagine is probably inside the cameras because air is a functional part of it whereas it seems like every other part of it's like the old uh story uh which may or may not be true of uh the ipod team complaining that they couldn't make it any smaller and steve jobs takes an ipod and puts it it puts it into a conveniently placed fish tank that apparently was in the meeting room and air bubbles start coming out of it and he says see those bubbles that means you can make it smaller
It's such a good story.
I hope it's true because it's such a good story.
But anyway, the space is tight inside the iPhone.
There's not a lot of wasted space.
Uh, but if there's any, like it's probably the air gaps inside the cameras and the tetra prism and all that other business or whatever.
So we'll see when we get them and hold them in person.
I don't expect, I certainly don't expect the pro to feel top heavy at all.
The air we'll see.
All right.
Uh, let's see, where are we?
So colors we talked about, uh, no black, I still think is funny.
Uh, I'm not complaining, but I'm very surprised.
Yeah.
Speaking of the no black, the other thing is the only neutral color, like white balance wise is the silver.
Yeah, that's true.
Uh, the a 19 pro.
I mean, I feel like we've talked about everything, right?
Is there anything else?
Nope.
That's just, it's the a 19 pro with all the cores enabled, uh, and 40% better sustained forms because of the vapor chamber.
Supposedly, uh, sounds good.
The back panel, like we said, ceramic shield, four times more crack resistance than previous backs, or so they say.
You will test that.
Yeah, I'm sure I will test that.
eSIM-only models, like we said, bigger batteries.
We didn't really talk about the cameras, did we?
It's time to talk about the cameras.
This is where they're spending.
You know, again, the role of the pro phone is to have all the best stuff and cameras are real important part of the phone.
And this is a pretty big year for camera upgrades to the phone again, not because of the one X, because it seems like the one X camera, the main camera.
is the same as it ever was but now that what they're touting is all three back cameras are 48 megapixel quote-unquote fusion cameras uh we already mentioned the 48 megapixel ultra wide from the uh 17 and this has it as well and it also has a brand new 48 megapixel
fusion telephoto tetra prism lens with a 56 percent bigger sensor than the previous gen improved 3d sensor shift image stabilization and from what i will able to gather from apple's presentation and their crappy lack of tech specs on their product pages is that this is a 4x optical zoom tetra prism camera yes that lets you crop into 8x so at 4x you get a 48 megapixel image at f 2.8
with 1.4 what is that micrometer quad pixels or 0.7 micrometer single pixels that's right yeah and you get an 8x zoom and so the rumors were saying this is going to be 8x zoom telephoto and they were you can see how they were getting that but no it's a 4x optical zoom camera that you can crop in to get a 12 megapixel 8x zoom thing again at f 2.8 with the 0.7 micrometer pixels
So as they touted, it's our longest optical quality zoom ever.
If you want to just have the decoder ring, whenever Apple says optical quality, it means not optical.
Yep.
It's optical quality, but not, it's like leaves your dishes virtually spotless.
That means your dishes have spots on them.
Yeah.
Typically the more word, the more qualifying words you add to a term, the less it is like that term.
But it is interesting because what they're saying is like that the 5X maybe was a little bit too zoomed in.
So this is optically 4X because it's easier to zoom in.
It's much more possible to zoom in within a camera, but you can't really zoom out.
You got to switch to a wider camera at that point.
So they moved it back to say optically it's a 4X.
but it's 48 megapixel and you can move in to 8x at you know the 4x is 100 millimeter equivalent they say and 8x is 200 millimeter equivalent so i think this is probably a better compromise and they touted it at the end by saying look at all the different ranges we have it's like you have eight cameras in one and basically said the main is like these two focal lengths and the ultra wide can do these two focal lengths and the tetra prism can do these focal lengths um
So I think they're covering a good range here.
And the fact that they're all 48 megapixels is we'll see what the quality is like, because it doesn't mean that doesn't mean they're all equally like the quality is equally good.
But the sensor is 56 percent bigger on the telephoto.
So maybe the telephoto ones won't be as clearly lesser quality as they used to be.
I'm assuming they still will be lesser quality, but maybe it'll be a closer race.
yeah they will because it's still like when you compare it to the 1x sensor the 1x sensor is pixels the quad pixel size is two is it micrometers the the melting you is that micrometers all right so anyway yeah the 1x is two micrometers of a pixel size instead of 1.4 yeah
Right, and the zoom is 1.4.
So it's still a smaller sensor because just optically speaking, to have a longer lens in such a tiny little space, you're probably going to end up with a smaller sensor.
But it is bigger than the last one, the 12 megapixel one than the last one.
So I think overall...
Yeah, there's still going to definitely be quality sacrifices between the 1x pictures and the 4x pictures.
No question.
But there should be a smaller difference.
Like the 5x from the outgoing models was not a very good lens or camera or sensor at all.
It was, as I mentioned last week, it was functional.
It was not good.
It was great if you wanted to take a picture of that really far away parking sign or whatever, but you weren't getting a lot of great art out of it.
This improves the chances that you will get better art out of it.
it's still not going to be similar it isn't going to be to the level of the one x but it's going to be less of a downgrade and as for the focal lanes i think this is great like now you have the one x doing one well two okay this this will do four pretty well and eight kind of okay like i
I think that's a really good spread that covers the range well.
Going from the 1X all the way to the 5X before, that was a big span.
Ideally, I would love for this to be what was rumored, I believe, a while back, which was like 3.5 and 7 as the telephoto and the crop telephoto.
That would be, I think, a little bit more ideal because I could bring it in a little bit more because at that full 8X,
the you know the 200 millimeter equivalent for a full frame that's pretty zoomed in for a phone especially um that's going to be a stabilization challenge and it it's going to be a really tiny crop in the middle of an already not that big sensor that's why i've got improved 3d sensor shift image stabilization
I mean, that's great, but you got to fight physics here pretty hard.
And again, I'm guessing that crop of the 8X, I haven't done the math, it's probably less sensor area than the outgoing 5X was, which is going to mean those pictures are going to suck.
Now, that being said, Casey mentioned a little bit ago, they said that at least on the 2X crop off the main sensor,
They are now using machine learning enhancement of details at 2x.
I'm assuming, I don't know if they said that probably also applies to the 8x mode.
Yeah, they did.
In this section, they said deep learning models for demosaicing.
Demosaicing is how they take, like the sensors aren't like RGB for every single pixel.
They have to, they do this demosaicing thing where they take the sensor values and
derive rgb pixels from the various sensors that surround them and this is where they're using the deep learning models to instead of doing that sort of mechanically straightforward way they have models that have some awareness of what you're taking a picture of demosaicing is not the same thing as hey i took a picture of the moon and it replaced it with like a rendered image of the moon that's not this demosaicing is a very low level thing that happens inside the camera but we'll see i mean there's always the opportunity for there to be weird artifacts because the deep learning model knows something about the picture and does weird stuff
um hopefully third-party camera apps will be able to disable or route around that to you know what it was that process zero the halides thing or whatever uh to to get cameras that are more true to what the sensor is seeing and let you do your own processing on them but all we have to go on now are apple's marketing speak and they did tout this deep learning at new levels of their of their camera systems
Yeah.
So ultimately, this looks like a pretty solid upgrade for the cameras.
It looks like a pretty significant one.
We'll see how it plays out in practice once we actually get these things and use them and see that zoomed in mode and everything.
We'll see.
But it looks like a pretty substantial upgrade.
So I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, very much so.
And the real pro stuff here, you can tell it's the real pro stuff because most people have no interest in it.
That's when you know it's real.
which is pro res raw capture, which that's why they have a two terabyte pro max.
And also the phone support external storage as of like a generation or two.
Right.
So this is for people shooting movies on iPhones, which is a thing that happens.
So a surprising amount these days.
So pro res raw, uh,
uh and gen lock which is a time code uh synchronization standard in the uh the real like you know movie camera type industry those are features that regular people are never going to care about or use the gen lock thing i think requires a giant uh external hardware brick to make it work um there's no 8k support there was a rumor of like maybe you can do 8k like it probably could if you pressed it but no 4k 120 is still what it is but like the pro res raw captured the external storage the gen lock thing um
These are all features for people like Apple who are shooting professional video with an iPhone, which you might think, oh, that's just a stunt.
Just Apple does that.
But and there was like Soderbergh did a movie on iPhones years and years ago.
But there is a surprising number of current movies or recent movies that have been shot either partially or entirely on iPhones and you wouldn't even know it.
So.
Like I look at this thing with its four with its 348 megapixel cameras, huge battery, vapor chamber cooling and, you know, ProRes, Rohan, Genlock stuff.
And I'm like, this is really, you know, becoming a a pro camera with a phone attached to it.
And they're really leaning in that direction.
I do wonder if someday they're actually going to push even farther and have a model that is dedicated to being a camera.
We're not there yet.
But every time they do these presentations and they have more segments that are of interest to like nobody in the audience except for literal professional videographers, it seems weird.
And on that front, I didn't get the answer to this before the show, but and I think I said it in one of the slacks we're in and no one offered their opinion.
Is it just me or was this presentation 60 FPS?
i have no idea i understand the question i don't know i don't know either because i didn't couldn't figure out from the video stream once it once it's downloadable i'll check to see that could have just been my imagination because hdr sometimes looks unreal or whatever but uh if it was 60 like because they shot an iphone they said they shot an iphone they've shot past ones on iphones or whatever and iphone you can choose how you want to shoot it but it does support 4k 120 it supports 4k 60 i do wonder if this was shot at 60 frames per second
um i couldn't i couldn't tell immediately but something looked weird to me it does kind of i'm looking back like at the people sections it does it does look like it yeah i think it might be there's a little i i kind of think of it because i shoot my movies in 60 fps too which it looks it looks different we're used to like movies are in 24 frames a second tv is in 30 in this country um or 29.97 whatever the hell six uh so 60 does look a little bit different but
Yeah, this camera, even especially the orange, it's kind of like a thing that you would see on a movie set, like a piece of professional video equipment more than a phone that people use.
But anyway, it's a powerful camera.
It's a powerful phone.
It's both things in one.
Uh, all right.
So the camera, the phones all look great.
We'll talk more about them in a minute.
Uh, the accessories tech woven is here.
Uh, the, the, just as the rumors announced, uh, they specifically called out there are, they are resistant to stains, which is kind of funny.
Uh, there's also clear cases, silicone cases, and all cases have a new button design and they all work or no, I'm sorry, not all of them.
Some of them work with the crossbody strap, the tech woven for iPhone pros and the silicone cases for all the iPhones.
Yeah.
And again, if you go to the case product pages, go through the images to like towards the end, they'll show one of the bottom of the phone.
If you want to look for those, like,
vampire holes, which is interesting because if you're not interested in lanyard, you're like, why are there these four extra very large holes on the bottom of my iPhone case?
Well, it's for there in case you want to put a lanyard on it.
And I'm very curious to see someone take these apart and say, what's behind those holes?
Because there's got to be some kind of reinforcement because it was like on a silicone case, you can't just have silicone there.
Like anything, any lanyard you put in there would just rip through in two seconds.
So that's interesting.
And all these ones with lanyard straps that I've seen are closed bottom, which makes sense.
uh but yeah tech woven looks interesting i'm trying to kind of encouraging my wife to get tech woven just so we can see what it's like she got fine woven and didn't mind it but uh i i'm interested to at least feel what tech woven looks like and again kudos to the rumor mill for getting the name as well and i'm also interested in like they glossed over it and you just mentioned it too but like oh we have better buttons
How?
Why?
What's better about them?
I don't know.
We'll find out.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm glad they are continuing to try this.
Based on the website photos of TechWoven, I'm not really sold.
I think Peak Design's everyday case looks a lot better as a fabric nice case.
We'll see.
I mean, I'll certainly want to play with them in the store once I see them.
But so far, TechWoven is not really drawing me to it.
Yeah, so at this point, they start talking about the iPhone 17 Pro Max, and I'm getting real nervous because they said, oh, there's four iPhones, the iPhone 17, the iPhone Air, the iPhone 17 Pro, and oh, here comes the iPhone 17 Pro Max.
What are all the ways it's going to be all kinds of better?
And I'm thinking, oh, God, I'm going to have to go up in size again, which I didn't mind when I did with 15 Pro Max, but I was not keen on the idea of going big again.
And they basically said, well, you can get two terabytes.
that's it yeah that's certainly the only difference yeah so much for the obstacle uh zoom 5x to 8x nope doesn't exist there's nothing different about it it's got a humongous battery if you want it's the biggest battery ever the longest battery life ever yada yada it's a big phone uh but it's not uh appreciably different than the 17 pro
Yep, which I am very excited about, as I said earlier.
All the iPhones, as we mentioned, start at 256 gigs.
Prices, 17 starts at $800.
The Air starts at $1,000.
17 Pro at $1,100.
Pre-ordering this Friday at 8 a.m.
in the One True Time Zone.
Available the following Friday on September 19th, which is the way it's been for years now.
Uh, iOS 26 available Monday, the 15th.
Uh, this is not what this episode is about, but I'm going to tell you right now, call sheet is not even going to be close to September 15th.
However, I will put in a plug for overcast, which I'm not saying it will be available on the 15th.
I'll let Marco talk in one second, but I will say I'm on the beta and it looks good.
So get excited for that.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
It's, I submitted it to Apple earlier this evening.
Um, so we'll see if it gets through app review in time.
um who knows if it will but that's always a you know a wild card to some degree but i think it probably will and this is the first year in oh geez many years that i have been ready on day one with an update to take advantage of the os you know the new os um that being said it's not perfect neither is the os so
There's a couple little visual glitch bugs that I have not yet figured out how to fix, honestly.
It seems like it's iOS bugs.
Okay, I guess I'll have to deal with that.
But I'm pretty proud of where it landed after a very bumpy summer.
Very bumpy, but I think I got to a good place.
My prediction earlier in the year when there were rumors of a redesign of the OS, and I said back then...
If they do that, that's all we will have time to do this fall.
No new features.
That's basically true.
That's basically what happened.
So Overcast is ready for the redesign, basically, and there are almost no new features.
So that's where I landed.
I look forward to the rest of the year of actually working on features, hopefully.
Yeah, and Call Sheet, I have been working very hard on it, particularly in the last few weeks, even despite the fact that my house is periodically underwater.
I don't want to talk about it.
But suffice to say, I am starting to make progress.
I tweeted earlier, or whatever we call mastodoning earlier, that...
I can almost see a speck of light at the end of the tunnel, which is a lot better than I could say about a day ago.
So I'm planning on something, no promises.
I'm planning on something for iOS 26, but it almost certainly will not be in September.
And I am aiming for early October, but we'll see what happens.
John, since I've brought this up, even though I told everyone we weren't going to talk about it, what is the situation in as few words as possible for your app library?
Well, most importantly, this wasn't in the presentation, but we all saw it afterwards in, like, Apple's press releases on their website or wherever that iOS 26 is coming out September 15th.
When I saw someone post an image that Tahoe is coming out September 15th, I'm like, that's got to be a joke.
Because, like, for many, many years, until very recently, macOS would always come out later than, like, iPadOS and iOS or whatever, because it's just not as important.
And sometimes it was awkward because there'd be, like, some kind of feature with, like, synchronizing the new version of Notes, and it was like,
but the new version of mac os isn't out we had what should i do or whatever and i was like well this year i bet they'll just they'll wait on mac os because like mac os will come out in october or something because it's so clearly not ready to ship right nope mac os tahoe monday september 15th which boggles my mind as someone who's been using tahoe every single beta for a huge amount of time like i cannot believe they're going to ship this i would
strongly advise people maybe think twice about upgrading to tahoe 26.0 because things are rough uh and not just in the os itself because a lot of the things that i found in my app is that tahoe broke my apps things that used to work stopped working and i had to figure out why are they not working and how can i make them work on both tahoe and the older os and
That has been frustrating.
And any app, any Mac app that has not been updated to do what I just described on Tahoe is going to have things that are broken in it.
They're through essentially no fault of the developer because they worked fine on like whatever, all the previous OS is that it supported, but now Tahoe broke them because lots of stuff in Tahoe is broken.
In fact,
I just added a feature like two days ago to try to work around my misunderstanding of how a new Tahoe feature is supposed to work.
And now I realized I have to undo that and redo it in a different way.
So I have not submitted my app for app review.
It's going to be, or any of my apps for app review, it's going to be quite a race to the finish.
In particular, Switch Glass is the most broken, so I really need to get that one out, but that's also the one where I have to redo the work I just did two days ago because now I have a better way.
I misunderstood the way some feature is supposed to work in Dahoe, and so I did a weird thing that wasn't helping and didn't work, and I have a better idea over it now.
I'm up against it for all these things.
I'm going to submit all my apps and upload all my apps and cross my fingers because they're every single thing that I've written, all five of the apps that I publish, three of which are on the Mac App Store, two of which are dinky, like do nothing helper apps, whatever.
All of them have code changes, like functional code changes that you will want if you're running Tahoe.
So I'm going to try to be there on day one.
I think I'll be able to submit all my apps within the next two days, but then it's the question mark about app review.
And if I make it through and yada, yada, but I'm the most shocking news of the entire day is the shipping towel in September.
Why?
What's the rush?
It totally needs more work.
Please, please work on it more.
So much stuff is broken.
Anyway, be careful out there.
For podcasters, Rogue Amoeba makes some really incredible apps that we use to record our microphones and things like that.
I don't remember if they sponsored in the past, but they're friends and they really do make incredible stuff.
And typically, they're not day one for new releases, although they're usually very close.
And so I'm not usually a day one upgrader, but I'm typically a month one upgrader.
And I got to tell you,
I don't know if that's going to be me on Tahoe anytime soon.
I don't want to be that guy, that old man, but I think I might wait a while because yikes.
Wait a little bit.
And I can't even tell you, is the 0.1 going to be a huge relief or are we going to have to wait until the 0.4 or 0.5 for things to settle down?
Because...
So much basic stuff is broken and janky and weird.
Again, not just in the parts of the OS that you'll use.
Like, oh, this dialog box looks weird and this button was misaligned and this text was over.
Yeah, you'll see that.
But in the APIs that third-party apps use, APIs that used to work fine and now do something weird or janky.
And that's where you're going to see it because it's going to be like you're going to upgrade.
And even if the OS is fine, all the apps that you have that didn't update on day one along with you are going to do weird stuff.
So I really wish they had held this one back.
I don't understand why they're rushing it out, but...
Someone set a deadline, and it looks like all the OS is watchOS, iOS, iPadOS, presumably tvOS.
September 15th, whether they're ready or not, and they're mostly not.
Yeah, everything is remarkably in sync with today's releases.
All the OSs are coming out Monday.
Every single product that was announced today is coming out the 19th.
Everything is totally synced up.
So we'll see what happens.
But for what it's worth, I've been running the iOS betas for the last several betas.
They're not perfect.
They still feel like betas to me.
I just, as we were recording, upgraded to the release candidate.
I think that's fine.
I wouldn't enthusiastically suggest it, but I think it is fine on iOS.
And if you're an iPad user...
Again, there's foibles and issues and things, but the new windowing is incredible.
So I do strongly advise, if you're willing to put up with a little bit of inconsistencies, upgrading to the latest iPadOS.
But yeah, we'll see about Tahoe.
All right.
Anything?
Oh, we have to talk about what we're planning to buy or did already buy.
I can tell you that I think I said earlier, I am in for a pair of AirPods Pro 3.
I plan to buy a blue iPhone Pro Max in whatever capacity this...
I said Pro Max.
I did not mean that.
And iPhone 17 Pro in whatever capacity I currently have, which I think is 512.
And I will probably be getting Erin an orange one because her school colors are actually orange and blue.
And so together we will look really great at UVA tailgates.
But anyways.
You look like the Denver Broncos.
Or the University of Virginia.
But anyways.
Uh, the point is, is that she'll be getting a orange.
As far as I know, I haven't really spoken to her about it.
I'll be getting the blue and I don't plan on getting a watch as I said, and I will be definitely looking at and probably lusting after the air.
But again, because of the thermals, because of the cameras, I don't expect to desire to own one or certainly not to have that be my only phone.
Um, but we'll see what happens.
Uh, Marco, what are you planning to do?
As mentioned earlier, I was going into this event expecting to have the Air as my phone.
And then once I saw the combination of not really liking the way the Air looks and the orange of the Pro being pretty good looking so far, I changed my mind on that.
And so I'm going with 17 Pro, the regular size.
probably 256 because I've been getting 256 for a while it's been fine I'm like I'm near the edge of it so maybe I go 512 this year but it's another $200 and like it seems like it might be wasteful as wasteful as any of this is but you know I think I'm going to skip the watch I don't really think I need one for any reason this year and if I do skip it I think that'll be the first Apple Watch generation that I skip
Oh, interesting.
I'm on the John plan for Apple Watches, generally speaking.
So I typically only go every other year.
I'm sure that's been not true at some point in my life.
But generally speaking, that's what I do.
So you're on the every year plan, generally speaking?
I have been.
And in large part, in the earlier days especially, that was because developing an Apple Watch app, you would want every bit of performance you can get because it was such a sluggish process, like transferring the app over and debugging it and launching it.
It was so awful that if you upgraded a watch every year,
each time you could save like you know minutes per run of your app like it was it was significant um that's no longer really the case um so i think i'm probably going to skip the watch this year um certainly for now i'm skipping it um we'll see you know as the year goes on if i need a bigger one for any reason like my old my testing ultra is the first gen ultra and it's pretty old and worn at this point so maybe i'll get the ultra later in the year for testing but i probably don't need to
um and then you know tiff's getting the the orange pro she she skips iphones now every every other year um but it's she's up for one so she's she's also getting orange we're gonna be a dual orange family but i figure like that's okay i make an orange app that's fine we're all team overcast over here is she not pro max i had in my mind she's max yeah sorry she's oh okay okay yeah and then uh we're both getting new airpods because they're awesome and we use them constantly
Good deal.
John, you said this is an off year for you.
Is that right?
Yep.
No new phone for me this year.
Although I will say this is the first year I was tempted to try the AirPods Pro for two reasons.
One, the different shape and two, the five different tips.
I don't like things in my ears, but I always, I'm always like, well, maybe, maybe it's not as bad.
Maybe I'll try it.
I tried the AirPods one.
I tried the AirPods two.
It was like, nope, nope, nope.
And I'm like, well, maybe these ones, they've got a foam tip.
They're different shape, yada, yada.
Like, cause I like the feature set.
The only thing I don't like about them is having stuff shoved into my ear holes, which is why I still use the AirPods four.
But I'm not going to do it.
Maybe I'll wait to see if someone else has them in my family that I can try theirs out or something.
But I don't know.
Anyway, all this is to say is I found them to be an impressive product that almost tempted me to order them, but I didn't.
Instead, it's the whole rest of the family's year to get a phone.
So my wife and I trade off years.
This is not my year to get a new phone.
I have a 16 Pro.
I'm keeping my 16 Pro for another year.
She has a 15 Pro.
She is going to get a 17 Pro.
She was waffling between the orange and the silver.
I was trying to push her a little bit towards the silver just because she likes to have colorful cases and orange is not going to go with a lot of case colors.
Even like she was like, well, maybe I get a purple case with it again, to your point, Casey, about that.
But like you don't you have limited options to coordinate case colors with that orange and you're going to see a lot of the orange because the gigantic camera plateau is very visible through the case.
Uh, so she seems to be leaning towards silver.
Uh, both my kids are getting plain 17.
My daughter has chosen sage.
My son is not responding to my texts.
Uh, he wants, uh, my daughter 256 is fine with her.
She's not even using all the one 28.
I actually looked at my phone while you were talking about storage, Marco, and I'm, I'm at two 63 usage on my five 12.
So I couldn't get a two 56 or I shouldn't get a two 56 cause I'd really be pressing up against the edge of it.
But my kids are not using that much storage probably because I don't have that many photos yet.
Um,
And my daughter is currently using the Clear case, so we're getting a Clear case for her 17.
My son has been using Otterbox cases, but I'm going to see if I can convince him to try one of the Apple cases this year.
We'll see.
My daughter has also been using the...
a magsafe wallet to put like her student id in or whatever because she's at college now but she's got complaints about it and apparently she says that it's hard to take the cards out because she got some cheap like amazon third-party magsafe wallet and having trouble getting the cards in and out and she says that her like
student ID like door loop thing like that you press up against a door to open the door she seems to think that the magnets interfere with that and I'm not sure if it's the magnets in the wallet or the magnets in the phone or whatever I was suggesting to her she should get a an Apple MagSafe case instead of this weird third-party Amazon case that she liked because it had pretty flowers on it
And maybe that will work better performance wise with the camera thing.
But her current plan is to get the clear Apple case and then buy a sticky as in like permanent stick on sticker wallet to stick to the Apple clear case, which of course means she can no longer stick it to the MagSafe mount in the car because there will be a wallet permanently attached there.
But she doesn't have a car at college anyway.
So this is an ongoing struggle.
What I'm trying to do is I need to get everybody's orders in.
tell me color figure out the storage what kind of cases do you want and then so i can be prepared when these orders go live which is what the 12th friday so i can be there on friday to order three phones and i'll mostly be concentrating my wife's because i imagine the plane 17 will be easy to get but
Yeah, that's the plan.
Even though it's quote-unquote not my year for a phone, we're buying three iPhones.
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Now the show is over.
They didn't even mean to begin.
Cause it was accidental.
Oh, it was accidental.
John didn't do any research.
Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.
Cause it was accidental.
Oh, it was accidental.
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So long.
I was going to interrupt you during your spiel to clarify that, hey, if you want to hear more of us, yeah, there's always the after show.
Like our show is such a confusing forum for new listeners.
Like, I think I'm already getting overtime because after they say that, I always hear more of the show.
You're hearing the after show, not overtime, which comes after the after show.
I know it's confusing, but, you know, hopefully I feel like the people who are considering purchasing membership have probably been listening long enough to have internalized our weird format and understand that overtime is not the same as the after show.
Also, like, you know, people I think people are able to look at their podcast app and they're good and they can probably see like, oh, there's still 15 minutes left.
Like granted, a lot of shows put a whole bunch of crap at the end that you skip past.
But like 15 minutes would be a lot like that.
That would be unusual.
You're saying 15 minutes for the after shower because our overtime is usually longer than 15 minutes.
No, I'm saying, yeah, for the after show.
Because, you know, I'm saying, like, you know, a lot of, like, you know, the big market podcast, like the podcast made by staffs of 10 people, a lot of times their actual content ends a good three minutes before the actual file ends.
Because they're going through, you know, our editor this week was so-and-so, the music by so-and-so, and then they have three minutes of promos and ads after all of that.
Like, so...
you could be forgiven if you look at your podcast app as a listener and we see see you next week and you see there's like you know two and a half three minutes left you could be forgiven for saying all right Marcus played move on but if you see there's like 10 or 15 more minutes like okay there's probably content somewhere in there speaking of content anyone have an after show no you kidding
I feel like I had an idea earlier and then it jumped right out of my head.
So I got nothing.
I think I'm going to actually like I was when I was I was taking out like my Apple Watch Ultra earlier and like I have like some I have a couple of iPhone 14s for testing.
I have some old some old iPhone SEs.
I think I'm going to do like a big Apple trade in for all this stuff.
It's like, you know, you get maybe a hundred bucks for most of the stuff.
You don't get a lot, but I have a lot of them.
Yeah.
Be prepared for disappointment.
Apple's official trade in prices are not great.
No, and yeah, there are other – people often ask, what do you do with your old things?
There are other trade-in sites, many of which pay a bit more than Apple does, but Apple's trade-in is really easy and reliable and usually is fine.
Now –
Like with many things like, you know, you could you could sell your phones on eBay and make the most money or sell them privately and make even more because, you know, then you wouldn't be paying eBay's fees, you know, but that's you're taking on more work and more risk.
And so like everything is like, well, there's options if you want to take on very little work and very little risk, but you will make less money.
But right now, these things are mostly just sitting around in drawers and stuff waiting to be tested.
And my test fleet is quickly aging.
And now that I'm on iOS 26, like Overcast works on iOS 18, but I don't think I'm going to keep that for that long, like maybe six months.
And then I'm really going to only need like one set of test devices.
So I think I have a bunch of stuff I want to clear out here.
And rather than mail it all to you, I'll wait until it's worthless before I mail it to you.
Well, it's still worth something.
I'll send it to Apple and get some credit.
Speaking of iPhone fleets and cameras or phones that are in drawers, my wife, as people know who listen to the show, has many phones, usually on her at the same time, anywhere from...
two to three four depending if she has her work phone she's got a lot of iphones so much so that they weigh a lot in her purse uh and why because she's doing pokemon go so a lot of our older phones end up going into the pokemon go fleet because she plays multiple accounts uh along with the auto catching things and stuff like that anyway i bring this up just to celebrate one of my wife's uh dreams come true recently um
She always wanted to have whatever we'd go like on vacation or somewhere or someone else's house or like one of my kids dorm room is that you're so lucky you have a pokey stop within range of like your bedroom.
So you can spin the stop and do all the things that you need to do and maintain your streaks from your own house.
Uh, and now finally her dream has come true.
There is a Pokestop within range of our house.
Oh, nice.
She had a friend who is experienced at suggesting new Pokestops and knows how to like do it and work the system.
And she sent him suggestions.
Can you please suggest this, this, and this place?
And he did it.
He got a Pokestop to be near her, our house.
So now she can spin stops from the comfort of her own bedroom.
She's probably doing it as, uh, as we speak right now.
She's very excited about this.
I feel like isn't Pokemon Go the game that's supposed to like make you get up and walk around and now you're celebrating the fact that you can do part of the game from within your house.
And she's like, well, I'd be in my house at night anyway.
And this just lets me like on the alternate phones that I'm not carrying with me all the time is lets me maintain my streaks or whatever on my secondary and tertiary and quaternary phones or whatever.
Anyway, she's super excited about it, and I'm happy for her.
But all this to say is that phones have a real hard time leaving our house because what actually happens to them is they get cycled into the Pokemon Go fleet, and that's a harsh life for a phone because they're on all the time.
They're running that game all the time.
When you run a game— To me, well, you're the one preserving your battery, taking every possible precaution.
Yeah.
This is where the phones are going to end up only to have a trash.
If you run Pokemon Go is the only app you run on your phone and like you have to leave the phone like essentially on and running that game to do like the auto catching thing and stuff.
It slaughters the batteries like it's just it just murders them.
and so yeah it's a short brutal life for these things eventually they become worthless and just get recycled i have brought things to the apple store for recycling uh not for trade-in but just for like i'm i get this is i don't have to pay you and please just take this and make it go away they don't give me any money i don't give them any money i figured it's a fair deal to get rid of this battery which i would otherwise have to take to like the electronics recycling thing or whatever i just give it to apple and they do something good with it and that's that is ultimately the end stage of
phones in our house although we do have a big box of uh stuff in the attic but i save some ones that i have sentimental value like i think we've got her iphone 4s because i love that one uh i think we've got a five i've got my pristine iphone 7 with no scratches on it i think we have a six in there somewhere i i have some sort of like iconic phones that i'm saving but yeah a lot of them just go to the pokemon go uh farm uh upstate and they never return
That's so sad.
I'm picturing when we first learned in Wii Sports that you could play tennis just kind of sitting on the couch flicking your wrist.
You're like, oh.
That kind of ruins the image of this game.
Yeah.
again her argument is that she still has to go to like community day and do raids and blah blah blah but she's excited about like she's like if we get enough things then we can get a gym near the house then she can occupy the gym and defend it and do it like she still goes out and does she's out doing pokemon stuff all the time so she is getting out of the house and doing it but apparently it's like well look at some point i am going to come home at some point i'm going to go to bed it would be great if i could spin stops from there and now she can't
And meanwhile, I'm sure that, you know, the Poke Corporation or whatever is like this new Pokestop has amazing loyalty and performance from these like 10 accounts that no one else goes there.
But these 10 accounts just love this place.
Yeah.
It's not 10 accounts.
I think she's only got three, maybe four.
I don't keep track.
Gracious.
I mean, I briefly played Pokemon Go mostly at Declan's insistence, and I understood the draw in general.
I'm not sure I would have gotten to the point of carrying 34 phones simultaneously and trying to power 34 phones.
What does her charging situation look like at night?
I mean, my word.
Oh,
Yeah, there are.
It's one of the problems with our charging area.
She was just talking.
Have you ever seen one of those like docs that charges fleets of iPads for schools?
Yeah, we do.
It's like it's like it's kind of like a what would you call like a dish rack where like you put the phone sideways into the thing.
We've had that for years and like it charges them slowly.
It's not a very fast charger, but it's got a capacity for a lot of stuff.
Yeah.
But she was just saying, OK, now that the kids are both going to have USB-C phones, we can get rid of a lot of these lightning things.
She's like, but just leave the long lightning ones because all the old lightning phones that she uses are like they don't fit in the slots.
They're off to the side.
So she uses the long cables to connect to the lightning ones and the short cables just go up to the devices.
So we're going to have to do some recycling of our powering cables.
But rest assured, we will still have plenty of lightning devices until all of the lightning devices age out slash die out from her Pokemon fleet.
But we're a ways from that.