Loaded Baked Potato
Marco:
Oh.
Casey:
Oh.
Casey:
That's delightful.
Marco:
Oh, your house is on fire also.
Casey:
Yeah, that's not good at all.
Casey:
All right, hold on.
Casey:
Let me deal with that.
Casey:
Hold on.
Casey:
I'll be back.
Marco:
Yeah, that's... We can't just let that one go.
Marco:
We have to actually go deal with it.
Marco:
You can just take that out in post.
Marco:
That's so loud.
John:
It is.
John:
It's piercing.
John:
It's doing its job.
John:
I can't wait to hear what this was, assuming it's not actual smoke.
Marco:
I've been to Casey's house.
Marco:
I know it's not like this, but I always picture there's always some calamity.
Marco:
I always picture you living in a cartoon.
Casey:
Well, that was super fun.
Marco:
So what was it?
Casey:
The fire alarms just randomly decided that something was wrong and then quieted themselves, which means it's probably going to happen again at some point, which will be super fun.
John:
Do you have carbon monoxide detectors?
Casey:
Yes, we do have a carbon monoxide detector, but it is not what went off.
Casey:
We have a whole home setup.
Casey:
This is probably common, but when one goes off, all of them goes off, but I didn't touch any of them.
Casey:
No one is cooking anything or showering near one?
Casey:
No, no.
Marco:
Do you have any dusty spiders walking through them?
Casey:
Well, all kidding aside, I think that's probably what happened.
Casey:
I'm not even trying to be funny because this has happened in the past, typically in the middle of the night.
Casey:
But yeah, as far as I know, everything's okay.
John:
This should be good.
John:
Does Aaron agree?
John:
She agreed that there's nothing on fire in your house.
John:
Do you have a second opinion?
Marco:
Yeah, it's worth getting a second opinion.
Casey:
If this happens again, I guess what I'll do is you'll hear it for a split second and I'll unplug my mic.
Casey:
No, no, no.
Casey:
Leave it in.
Casey:
Leave it in.
Casey:
Well, no, because what if it goes on for like 15 seconds?
Casey:
That's going to be annoying for everyone.
Marco:
Take it out in the edit.
Marco:
The edit fixes it.
Marco:
Please don't unplug your mic in the middle of recording.
Marco:
It'll do weird things when you plug it back in.
Marco:
Did he just mute himself or did he just unplug it again?
Marco:
Just don't unplug your mic during recording, please.
Marco:
Don't change your level either, please.
Marco:
Whatever you're doing, just don't mess with it.
Marco:
When we're recording, just don't touch it.
Marco:
Just leave it.
Marco:
Leave it.
Marco:
Leave it.
Marco:
Don't touch it.
Casey:
Sorry, I wasn't listening to anything you said.
Marco:
Good.
Casey:
Perhaps this is the appropriate time to mention that we did have electricians at the house working on the screened-in porch today.
Casey:
Hypothetically, one should not relate to the other.
Marco:
I believe you're referring to the secret expansion project of the house that you have not disclosed on this show.
Casey:
Oh, well, hey, guess what?
Casey:
We're putting a screened-in porch on the house.
Casey:
By the way, if you're interested, atp.fm slash join would be extremely helpful right now.
Casey:
And also, merchandise is coming.
Casey:
Merchandise is coming.
Casey:
But anyways, yeah, so the secret project that definitely is not a screened-in porch.
Marco:
I gotta say, I love a screened-in porch.
Marco:
They're so nice.
Marco:
It's the best.
Casey:
So, yeah, we had the electricians.
Casey:
They already did the rough in, which is like getting the wires approximately to where they're supposed to be.
Casey:
And then today they were doing some but not all of the final stuff.
Casey:
Additionally, the structure itself got its final county approval, which is good from the building people.
Casey:
So that means they think it won't fall down, which is good.
Marco:
That's a start.
Casey:
That's a start.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
So we've been, well, we were living in it in a figurative sense for the last several days.
Casey:
But about a week ago, we entered pollen season here in Virginia.
Casey:
And hoo boy.
Casey:
Oh, it's either I'm getting more sensitive, which is certainly possible, and or it's getting worse and worse with each passing day.
Marco:
I think there actually might be some signs that it actually is getting worse most years.
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
It's so bad.
Casey:
So Declan today, I haven't driven my car in a couple of days and we had the garage door open and the garage door is typically open most of the day for various uninteresting reasons.
Casey:
And Declan walked up to the hood of my car and I see him going, pfft, pfft.
Casey:
I'm like, what are you, what are you, oh, and I'm watching the pollen just like, just float off of the hood of the car because it's just, it's so thick that it's just billowing off the hood.
Casey:
Oh, God.
Casey:
It's so, it's terrible.
Casey:
All that to say, you know, we really love the screened in porch that now at least has lights in it so we could go out there in the evening time, but we can't really enjoy it because we're covered, it's covered in yellow all the time.
John:
You have those HEPA filter screens on your screened-in porch.
Casey:
Yeah, that's what I need to do.
Casey:
For us, Erin pretty much dictated, and I mean that in a happy way, not in an angry way, dictated what the design of the screened-in porch would be in terms of size and what's what and so on and so forth.
Casey:
But I basically told her, hey, I'll take care of the electrical.
Yeah.
Marco:
And wait, by that, you mean you're going to decide what it is, not you're going to actually run the wires?
Casey:
Oh, God, no.
Casey:
Absolutely not.
Casey:
Oh, goodness, no.
Casey:
To put things in perspective, I wanted to change out a light switch from a traditional light switch to a Lutron Caseta light switch because I forgot to give it to the electricians today.
Casey:
And Aaron was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Casey:
Just let them do that when they come back.
Casey:
It'll be fine.
Casey:
Okay, honey.
Casey:
And she's right to tell me no because I probably would screw it up somehow.
Marco:
I put in a lot of my own light switches, swapping them over time in the old house.
Marco:
You could do it, but you shouldn't do it.
Marco:
If you had to do it, it would probably be fine.
Marco:
Again, I've done it, and the ones I've done have been fine for many, many years, but
Marco:
I know an electrician would do a better job than I did.
Marco:
Just things like having to make the perfect loop shape with the solid core wire or giving it exactly the right amount of slack of the wire in the box so that when you have to push it in, it doesn't squish in a weird way.
Marco:
There's little details like that.
Marco:
I have also had electricians do stuff like that here and there.
Marco:
And when they do it, it is so much nicer than when I do it.
Casey:
Well, anyway, what I was driving at, and the question I have for you guys is, when you have done any sort of renovation or improvement or refactor, for lack of a better word, to your home, has there been a pretty clear division of labor?
Casey:
Because Aaron said, I said to Aaron, and Aaron said to me, I'll take care of the kind of physical setup of the place.
Casey:
And I said, I'll take care of what electrical needs to go where.
Casey:
And so as an example, we had...
Casey:
a bit of a, not a marital issue, but there was a conversation about whether or not we should have infrared heaters on the screened-in porch because I wanted to be able to use the screened-in porch.
Casey:
Well, I should say we wanted to be able to use the screened-in porch for, you know, into the parts of the year when maybe it wouldn't be terribly convenient, you know, when it's like 50 or 60 degrees outside rather than 70 or 80 degrees outside.
Casey:
And I eventually won that...
Casey:
discussion and we do have infrared heaters that i turned on for the first time today which is very exciting but um but i was curious you know did did you guys when you've gone through renovations and you don't have to be specific about the renovations but did you have like clear divisions of labor or was it just one person doing all the work neither one it was a collaboration everything everything's a collaboration you're gonna work in teams everyone's all got opinions on everything and usually one person feels more strongly than the other about any specific thing and you work it out
Casey:
Yeah, I mean, that's more or less what happened with us.
Casey:
But if you look at it, you know, at a macro level, she had much stronger opinions about, you know, the physical design of the porch, and I had much stronger opinions about the electrical.
Casey:
And so it kind of worked out.
Casey:
But I don't know, Marco, you've done things on and off over the years.
Casey:
What did it end up for you guys?
Marco:
Pretty collaborative.
Marco:
As time has gone on, like the first time we did anything, we were super heavily involved.
Marco:
Part of that was because we had a really terrible, very cheap contractor.
Marco:
And we kind of had to micromanage things because the contractor wouldn't or couldn't.
Marco:
Neat.
Marco:
For a later thing that we did, we hired a better contractor and we had to do and say almost nothing for that because it was somebody good who ran his own ship correctly and so we didn't need to be doing much.
Marco:
The first one we had an architect, the second one we didn't.
Marco:
The first one was gutting a bunch of rooms, the second one was one room, so it wasn't that big of a thing.
Marco:
But
Marco:
architects are supposed to be the ones when you're doing bigger jobs they're the ones that specify like where the outlets go and stuff like that but you can also tell them like I want one here or I can move this over here or whatever because you know they have to follow certain codes of like they have to be within a certain number of feet of various things and a certain frequency and a certain type and certain height and all this other stuff but to the degree that decisions were ours to make yeah we would do a lot of them ourselves in areas that we cared about
Marco:
But we wouldn't specify like, oh, I want the beams to run this direction because we don't know or care how that should or needs to be done.
Marco:
But certainly as projects go on, you get decision fatigue.
Marco:
And so like the first part of the project, we super care.
Marco:
And then as the project goes on, you're like, just do whatever.
Marco:
Just do whatever's right.
Marco:
You pick.
Marco:
Just get it done, please.
Marco:
For the love of God, get out of our house.
Marco:
That kind of thing.
Marco:
So that will happen here.
Marco:
Don't worry.
Marco:
Right now, it sounds like it's roughly the middle of your project.
Casey:
No, no.
Casey:
It's actually pretty close to the end at this point.
Casey:
The physical construction is already done.
Casey:
I think we're one to two working days away from the electrical being done.
Casey:
And when that's done, it's done.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don't know when the electricians are going to be able to come back out because they're pretty busy, but it seems like as early as the end of the week.
Casey:
In fact, potentially even tomorrow, but I doubt it.
Casey:
But I think by the end of the week, it's possible that it'll be done-done, and that would be really exciting.
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
This is the first time we've done a really, really big renovation.
Casey:
Like we redid the kitchen, I don't know, right around the time that Declan was born and we redid the HVAC about the same time.
Casey:
Actually, I think it was happening at the same time.
Casey:
Is it coincident or coincident when it's happening at the same time?
Casey:
What's the right pronunciation there?
Casey:
Affluent.
Casey:
Affluent.
Casey:
That's what it is.
Casey:
Thank you.
Casey:
Those were more like, take the things that we have now and make them not suck.
Casey:
As opposed to like, let's construct something new and new and exciting.
Casey:
And that's what this is.
Casey:
So in I shouldn't say happier news, I was gonna say happier news, but in extraordinarily happy news, all three of ATP is now on the vaccination train.
Casey:
Am I right?
John:
You are right.
John:
All right.
John:
Got lucky.
John:
Friend of the show, Paul Kafasis, maker of many audio apps, including the one we're all using right now to record this, Audio Hijack, gave me a late-breaking tip in the middle of the night saying, hey, this place near us, because he lives in this area as well,
John:
has vaccines available.
John:
And apparently they have too many of them and not enough people to give them to.
John:
So on the little sign up website, they basically said, look, when you go through this thing, enter this thing here.
John:
You know, it says like, have you been contacted by a community outreach person for a vaccine?
John:
And just say yes to that.
John:
That's what their website said.
John:
So I went through it.
John:
answered all the questions completely honestly said yes to the community outreach thing and said congratulations you can get a vaccine so i went today with my son we both got ours uh they were even taking walk-ins people would just show up like no no appointment no nothing they would just show up and they would say here fill out this paperwork and then get in line because they got vaccines to give and they're only there i think they're only there today and then they're only going to be there you know three weeks from now to do all the second rounds because it was pfizer um
John:
So that that was good.
John:
I mean, you know, I'm glad I'm glad I could finally close all those windows and tabs of all this obsessive searching for vaccine appointments.
John:
And it's not even, you know, normally I would have to wait five more days to be eligible for this place, have them and needed to get rid of them.
John:
And I was more than happy to take some.
Casey:
Let me ask you something.
Casey:
Were the staff there like kind of whatever or were they super excited?
Casey:
Because in my vaccination story, which I described in detail in the most recent analog, when I went, they were like overjoyed to be giving vaccinations to whoever showed up.
Casey:
They were so excited to be doing this for people.
Casey:
And it was really, really lovely.
Casey:
And I don't know if that is a Southern thing or if that was a we're saving lives thing.
Casey:
But how were they where you were?
Casey:
Yeah.
John:
It might be, it might be a Southern thing or a collegiate thing or something, but, uh, I mean, everyone was fine.
John:
They all look like they were 12 years old, but that's just because I'm an old person.
John:
Um, but the person who was giving me the shot asked me if I was excited and I was like, just, just do it.
John:
It's just like, I don't have time for small talk.
Casey:
Oh, John.
John:
I want to keep the line moving.
John:
We've got to go through this.
Casey:
That's a New Yorker talking right there.
John:
That's straight New York.
John:
There was actually a line.
John:
Even though they were taking walk-ins, the walk-ins would fill out a thing and then they had to get in line.
John:
But the line was moving, right?
John:
So I was there for less than an hour to get through the whole thing.
Marco:
We are sponsored this week by Alex Weinstein Music.
Marco:
The game you're developing.
Marco:
Is it a peaceful meditation or an exhilarating rush?
Marco:
The commercial you're directing.
Marco:
Is it inspiring and heroic or strange and curious?
Marco:
The podcast you're editing.
Marco:
Is it banter between friends or in-depth reporting on a real life mystery?
Marco:
In every project, it's music that tells the story.
Marco:
It's music that creates emotion.
Marco:
So where do you go for your music?
Marco:
Well, I'm sure you have your go-to stock music site, but many of those sites think that more is better, touting hundreds of thousands of songs in their catalog.
Marco:
And if you're searching for music, that's like listening for a needle in a haystack.
Marco:
a very boring haystack.
Marco:
Maybe it's time for something new.
Marco:
I want to tell you about Alex Weinstein music.
Marco:
This is a direct line to a composer whose music has been licensed by Google, Amazon, Intel, Slack, Panic, and many more.
Marco:
You're listening to his music right now.
Marco:
Alex's style is different than most.
Marco:
He takes a human approach to music production.
Marco:
Sounds can be imperfect.
Marco:
Rhythms can live off the grid.
Marco:
It's handmade and organic with exciting rhythms and textures.
Marco:
The result is a unique sound that helps your story stand out and connect with your audience.
Marco:
So if you want to tell a better story, start with better music.
Marco:
Visit alexweinstein.com slash ATP for more information.
Marco:
That's alexweinstein.com slash ATP.
Marco:
Thank you so much to Alex Weinstein for sponsoring our show.
Casey:
Let's start with some follow-up.
Casey:
John, I am extremely excited to know.
Casey:
I've been waiting with bated breath.
Casey:
What is going on with your smart outlet?
John:
I talked about redoing my home network and my smart outlet was the one thing that I didn't get to work.
John:
And this isn't weird having multiple podcasts.
John:
I know I talked about it extensively on Rectives, but on this podcast, I just sort of mentioned it and then talked about some other stuff.
John:
We went on our way.
John:
i should have at least probably given a little bit more detail because many many people had suggestions of things that i could do to perhaps get my smart outlet to work i thank everyone for their suggestions there's no explanation that they could have heard an as yet unreleased episode of rectifs and know all the things i tried but i did try many many things all prior to recording the podcast i haven't had time to mess with it anymore but anyway just list some of the things i tried because these may help you with your uh smart outlet or smart thing that's having problems
John:
One of them is some smart devices only support 2.4 gigahertz if they're Wi-Fi things.
John:
And if you have a 2.5 and 5 gigahertz Wi-Fi network, sometimes there's some miscommunication where the device will try to join the 2.4 gigahertz, but your phone will be on the 5.
John:
They won't be able to talk or all sorts of stuff like that.
John:
So the Eero has a nice option.
John:
This is a common enough issue that the Eero app actually has an option, just a separate dedicated thing that says...
John:
disable five gigahertz for a little while.
John:
It's like the bit more button on those toasters.
John:
You just press it once and it's like self-timing.
John:
It will reset itself because you don't want to turn off five gigahertz everywhere, right?
John:
So you just press it and it turns off five gigahertz for like 10 minutes to give you a chance to set up stuff.
John:
So that's the thing you can try.
John:
Didn't work in my case.
John:
WPA3 is out now as kind of an experimental feature on the Eero thing.
John:
I have that enabled.
John:
One of the support people at Eero said, why don't you try disabling that?
John:
I did.
John:
No difference.
John:
IPv6 on and off is another thing you can try.
John:
No difference on my end.
John:
Eero has this extra security thing for HomeKit where you can turn this feature on and, first of all, add all the Eeros as HomeKit devices so you can see all your various Wi-Fi hubs.
John:
But also it has this thing that will, like,
John:
Limit what other devices that your sort of HomeKit stuff can communicate with to prevent a light switch from communicating with your computer to somehow tunnel information out of your home or something.
John:
I don't know.
John:
It's basically just confining them in their network.
John:
And so maybe that's the problem.
John:
Tried that on and off.
John:
I'm probably missing other things that I've tried, but I tried many, many different things.
John:
I'm in communication with both Eero and the smart outlet maker going through various support things.
John:
I think I'm at the point with both of them where they want to essentially get me on the phone in real time and try a bunch of stuff.
John:
I did find a reproducible crasher in the app that belongs to the outlet, not the home app, but the specific app for the outlet.
John:
And so they have a fix for that crasher and I'm getting on a test flight to try that.
John:
But I don't think that was the problem because,
John:
you know you should be able to add this with home kit anyway so uh the short answer is still no smart outlets and we're noticing in the house how many people are used to speaking to the air now that we've had this thing for like you know i don't know multiple years now um and now you have to turn the lights on off with your fingers it's terrible um what a hardship
John:
I've seen people speak into the air and then just sit there for a second and realize, oh, nothing's that, which isn't that strange because half the time we speak into the air and then the HomePod says, you know, haven't heard back from your devices.
John:
And then we have to speak into the air again and ask somebody else to do it.
John:
But now you speak into the air and nothing happens.
John:
Ever.
John:
Because they're just plugged into the wall.
Marco:
Oh, it's a hard life.
John:
Yeah.
John:
So we're working on it.
John:
It's not that I backburnered it.
John:
I feel bad that I have emails and things.
John:
There's only so much time I can dedicate to fighting with smart outlets.
Casey:
You know, it's funny.
Casey:
I really want to make fun of you for this.
Casey:
But one of the discussions and conversations Aaron and I had about the porch was whether or not Lutron Casetas were necessary for like fans that are out there.
Casey:
Because my perspective was I might want to tweak the speed of the fan.
Casey:
And I don't have to get up to do that.
Casey:
That's barbaric.
Casey:
And her point was this porch isn't that big.
Casey:
You can get off your butt.
Casey:
And it ends up that I won that fight because he basically just didn't want to continue to hear me complain and moan.
Casey:
But nevertheless, I totally hear what you're saying.
Casey:
John, I have a question for you.
Casey:
Where in the Eero app, just for pure curiosity's sake, is the 5G switch?
Casey:
Maybe it's because you're on newer hardware than me, but I just don't see that anywhere.
John:
No, it's not easy to find.
John:
So I use the switch multiple times.
John:
I used it myself, and then I was in support email, and they asked me to do it.
John:
I'm like, oh, I found that feature on my own, and I already tried it, but I'll try it again, right?
John:
And then the third time it happened, someone mentioned on Twitter, and they were like, oh, you should try turning up 5 gigahertz.
John:
And they said, oh, you have to call Eero to do that.
John:
And I replied, and I was going to say, no, it's in the app now.
John:
And I was going to send them a screenshot of it in the app, and I couldn't find it.
John:
i was like i've used this feature twice how can i not find it anyway i it's under troubleshooting it's hard to find you go down troubleshooting you go under like my device can't connect eventually you dig down the troubleshooting menu tree you get to a leaf node that says like disable five gigahertz for 10 minutes or something so it is fairly well hidden but if you're desperate and trying everything you probably will end up in the troubleshooting section of the arrow app and then you will find this option
Marco:
For whatever it's worth, I have actually for a few months at least now, I've faced similar issues with 5 gigahertz networks having problems with certain devices connecting to them or getting confused by like their SSID being the same as the 2.4 SSID.
Marco:
And so I actually have like one of the random nerdy things you can do with Ubiquity stuff is you can create as many networks as you want, like as many network name broadcasts as you want.
Marco:
You can specify all sorts of different things about them.
Marco:
And one of the things I do is I broadcast a version of my SSID that has no spaces.
Marco:
And only like basic ASCII characters, like only the only basic letters in the name.
John:
That was one of the troubleshooting options, troubleshooting suggestions, I think, from both ends.
John:
And I tried it.
John:
I did.
John:
I did what you're just describing.
John:
Just FYI, I didn't do anything.
Marco:
But go on.
Marco:
Anyway, but yeah, so it's because I found like like certain devices like my my SSID contains a smart quote.
Marco:
and you know you can't even type that on a lot of devices that have like they're like like on a nest thermostat there's like no way to type that in um and it so and if it doesn't show up in the in like a list of browsed things you basically can't you basically can't use it like i had some kind of like crazy uh epson printer i had to set up wirelessly that like it just couldn't join the network at all no matter what because it had an apostrophe in it like a smart quote
Marco:
so i have this whole separate ss id again 2.4 only only the letters in the name and it's not broadcast like it's not advertised as it doesn't advertise its name is for people's lists so that way it doesn't clutter up my wi-fi menu when i when i look at it and and like you know when we have guests over they don't actually accidentally try to join it or something but i can easily type it in to any to any device and
Marco:
because it's 2.4 only and has a different name technically than my main one that has 5.8 and 2.4 on it, there's no conflict.
Marco:
There's no potential for conflict.
Marco:
And I've actually had a few devices that only worked when they were connected to that network and not my main one.
John:
Yeah.
John:
And the other thing to want to remind people is that this smart outlet was connected to this very set of Euro hardware for Wi-Fi and always has been.
John:
It's the only thing it's ever been connected to.
John:
The only difference is now all of a sudden the Euro is doing routing.
John:
That's why I think it probably has something to do with my router setup, but I don't know what to change on it other than the stuff I've already tried.
John:
But yeah, it's super weird because it's not like this isn't new hardware.
John:
It's not like it's new Wi-Fi.
John:
Like if there was any incompatibility between this smart outlet and my Euro Wi-Fi, how did it work for the past two years or whatever?
Right.
John:
It's probably just like I'm distributing IP addresses wrong or some other weird bug.
John:
Anyway, it's a background task.
John:
I'm working on it, but it's not the most important thing.
Casey:
All right, tell me about electrical resistive heating, please.
John:
Yeah, I don't think it was clear enough in this when we were talking about things you can do with electricity that are constructive.
John:
It's like, I'm using electricity anyway, and it's producing heat.
John:
Why don't I do something useful for that electricity, like mine for Bitcoin or something?
John:
Anyway, and we got into a discussion of heat pumps versus electrical heating, which is confusing because many or most heat pumps use electricity to do their job.
John:
And what we didn't distinguish between is
John:
uh sort of electrical resistive heating where electricity comes into your home from the outside right and you basically run that electricity through something that has resistance and turn that electricity into heat and you can turn pretty much 100 it's really easy to turn stuff into heat in general like you can turn pretty much 100 of that electricity into waste heat uh and you can use that to heat your home and that's what i was talking about as the
John:
fairly inefficient and you know i just got kind of electrical heating and i just got done saying well if i can turn all the electricity into heat how is that inefficient isn't that like 100 efficient uh that's again where you should watch the videos that we linked last week to learn that it is much more efficient to simply use that electricity to transfer pre-existing heat that you didn't have to pay to generate for
John:
From a place where it isn't, from a place where it is to a place where it isn't.
John:
So heat pumps take heat from outside your home and put it into your home.
John:
And you may be thinking, well, there's no heat outside my home when it's cold out.
John:
Again, you need to watch the video.
John:
So heat pumps, they're cool.
John:
They use electricity.
John:
They're not the same as electrical resistive heating.
John:
And yes, it is very possible to get a better efficiency than you get for electrical resistive heating, even though all the electricity in electrical resistive heating essentially turns into heat.
John:
You can do even better if you don't have to make the heat in the first place.
Casey:
All right.
Casey:
A lot of people wrote in with regard to, with corrections and also supplementary information for Marco with regard to CarPlay and with charging, which we'll get to in a second.
Casey:
But something that I didn't know, and I'm kind of embarrassed that I didn't know this, but I'll bring it up on the show in case other people didn't know this.
Casey:
Lots of people said that if you have like a dictation button on your steering wheel, if you long press it, so like a press and hold, it will activate Siri when CarPlay is connected.
Casey:
And my mind exploded because I had no idea that was the case.
Casey:
My Volkswagen has a dictation button on the steering wheel.
Casey:
I honestly don't remember if Aaron's car does.
Casey:
I don't think it does.
Casey:
But nevertheless, my Volkswagen definitely does.
Casey:
And when I tap that button or, you know, just momentarily press that button, it always does Volkswagen's dictation system setup or whatever.
Casey:
And it's always garbage.
Casey:
As every car dictation I've ever tried is always garbage.
Marco:
All of them.
Marco:
Always.
Casey:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey:
But...
Casey:
Turns out when you mash down on it for like a second or two, it'll activate Siri if CarPlay is enabled and connected.
Casey:
And I, honest to goodness, I had no idea that was the case.
Casey:
And this is going to change my life.
Casey:
So thank you to all of you who wrote in and told us that.
Casey:
That was extremely interesting news to me that I did not know.
Marco:
We heard from a bunch of people who were all correcting me on how wrong I was about how bad CarPlay and BMWs was.
Marco:
Apparently, not only that, but also, I had forgotten, and I think we even talked about this in neutral at some point, but I had forgotten that with the old BMW iDrive systems where you'd still have those 1-9 memory buttons, like radio buttons, across the front of the dash...
Marco:
I'd forgotten that you can actually hold those down and program in a shortcut to any screen in iDrive.
Marco:
So you don't have to just program number one to a radio station.
Marco:
You can program it to the CarPlay screen or any other screen in iDrive.
Marco:
And so some people suggested if I want like a hardware button to jump right to CarPlay all the time, just program in like button number one to that.
Marco:
So we'll try that next time I'm in that car.
Marco:
And yeah, you're right.
Marco:
The press and hold for the button apparently will also do Siri.
Marco:
So that's also very good.
Marco:
And I was told by many people also that apparently the non-tuck screen and ancient iDrive system in the i3 is apparently way behind the systems that are in literally every other BMW.
Marco:
Even though this is a model year 2019 car, it's not that old, but the i3 hasn't really been very well updated over time.
Marco:
So...
Marco:
it apparently is still running an old generation of stuff apparently the new car place in bmws apparently they all have touch screens and they are like way better so apparently this problem has been solved in all the other models except for the i3 you can twirl your finger in front of the new ones to turn the volume up and down oh great yeah
Marco:
that's true by the way that's not that's not a sarcasm you really could do that in some yeah and we also heard from people who drove lots of other kinds of cars who basically said that the the dream setup i had talked about of having it like just being car play and have quick buttons to jump around between like the map and music app apparently like every other car maker offers that
Marco:
last week we were we had so many people write in to say like oh i drive home you know whatever and yeah that's apparently very common so pretty much it sounds like pretty much everybody except tesla uh has very good car play options for their vehicles and that brings us to some feedback from friend of the show dave nanian who is the primary author of super duper which is some really great backup software which we'll put a link in the show notes
Casey:
Dave writes, there are only three charge plugs used in the United States, the Tesla one, the Leaf one, and CSS, or excuse me, CCS, which everyone else uses.
Casey:
And there's a link to evgo.com, which details all the different electric vehicles and what plugs they use and approximately what their range are and so on and so forth.
Casey:
Dave continues.
Casey:
So the BMW plug is the one used by nearly everything, including his Taycan?
Casey:
What is it, John?
John:
Taycan?
John:
I think it's Taycan.
John:
Like the tie you wear around your neck and like a can of soup.
John:
That's my guess right now.
Marco:
Don't worry.
Marco:
Like everything else about Porsche, every way we possibly could say it is wrong.
Casey:
I believe it's Porsche, Marco.
Casey:
It's Porsche.
Casey:
Porsche.
Casey:
And his Porsche tea kettle.
Casey:
That's it.
Casey:
So anyway, Dave continues.
Casey:
I've had very little problem finding fast chargers, but I'm not driving where Marco is.
Casey:
Also, boy, you're John and Casey Wright.
Casey:
You knew I had to include this feedback when that phrase was part of it.
Casey:
Marco needs to actually look at non-Teslas.
Casey:
I'm really much happier with my Taycan than I am with my admittedly early Model S.
Casey:
It's a far better car, and I'm sure that the Audi e-tron GT is similarly great.
Casey:
I thought this was good feedback because I honestly had no clue what the charging situation was across all these different brands and all these different vehicles.
Casey:
But I also like someone who has lived your life, Marco, saying, please, please leave the Tesla bubble, just at least to look.
Casey:
It doesn't hurt to look.
Casey:
You can look.
Casey:
Just look.
Casey:
There's other things out there, and they're good.
Marco:
So I will counter this argument with... Oh, no.
Marco:
With, you know... So the very first line of Dave Nadine's email here about the charge plugs... Yeah, so I had said in the last show that the i3 had some weird plug that nothing else had and that I had a very hard time finding...
Marco:
fast chargers for it on like the public networks to find to look at chargers you know dave says there's only three charge plugs in the u.s tesla one the leaf one which is the chattamo and ccs which is used everywhere else and apparently that's like the standard in europe so much so that even tesla uses ccs in europe i believe they were forced to uh anyway the tesla one comma the leaf one comma and this thing everyone else uses
Marco:
tesla and the leaf are super popular it's like the number one available one and then this other one that's on this very popular other car so it's not like ccs is like the majority of everything by like total unit sales so that that's that's like two very big ifs that's like saying like you can use this website that works on everything except chrome it's like okay well that's kind of it's
John:
I'm going to guess that more cars with CCS are sold in the U.S.
John:
than any other EV, but that's just a guess.
John:
I'm sure we'll find out by next week.
Marco:
Honestly, I'd be surprised.
Marco:
I would assume that Tesla has everyone beat on total unit sales for EVs.
Marco:
Yeah, the Model 3 really is the big factor there.
Marco:
at least in the u.s tons of models threes are sold but i but i'd see tons of other i mean maybe if you don't if you don't count plug-in hybrids it changes you know what i mean because i think a lot of cars no i wouldn't count plug-in hybrids and they have the ccs connector though do they do do they get fast charge because you only need you only need like the the bottom extra pins if you're doing dc fast charging so anyway going back to this so we got an email from devin who makes a really good point uh as someone who owns both a nissan leaf and a tesla
Marco:
Once you want to drive more than 100 to 200 miles away from the home point, you can't really find charging reliably.
Marco:
Tesla is so far ahead of the charging game and supercharging spots are so rock solid.
Marco:
I've come up on many quick charger stations in my LEAF that I absolutely needed to continue my trip, and then the station is broken and there's only one unit.
Marco:
Unless you've driven on both charging networks, you really don't appreciate how important the Tesla network is.
Marco:
I'll take that over CarPlay any day.
Marco:
So that's from Devon.
John:
I mean, the Leaf has terrible range, though, to be fair.
Marco:
Agreed.
Marco:
But I think this is a major factor, that when I was looking for chargers, one of the reasons I didn't find that many, first of all, is that there are way more slow chargers than fast chargers.
Marco:
If you actually want DC fast charging, there are way fewer of those than there are hotels that happen to have a 220 charger in their parking lot.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
And if you're going on a long trip, you want DC fast charging.
Marco:
You don't want to be sitting there for seven hours while your car charges.
Marco:
So you want actual fast charging.
Marco:
That's what superchargers are, direct DC directly into the batteries.
Marco:
So anyway, there simply aren't very many of those in the US in many places.
Marco:
I think Tesla has way better coverage.
Marco:
And then I totally see that this is the reality here.
Marco:
When you do find one of those DC fast chargers that has a CCS plug,
Marco:
it's usually really just like one unit or there it's like, you know, in some parking lot of some, you know, like some place you don't want to be.
Marco:
It's like in some like tucked away in some like terrible parking lot behind a warehouse.
Marco:
And there's like one CCS charger and like, okay, well, if you're going to drive to that and there's no more in a very close range, you're going to have to be darn sure that's going to be there and work and be available to you and not be already taken.
Um,
Marco:
Whereas the supercharger network is just so nice and so consistent and the car knows where it is.
Marco:
So like, you know, in order for me to find a fast charge place for the i3, I have to like pull over somewhere, take out my phone, open up various apps to figure out like where these things are and then like manually get myself there.
Marco:
In every Tesla, they have a map on the screen that's updated constantly with supercharger statuses and locations, and they're marked clearly, and you can just tap them.
Marco:
If you're using the car's navigation, it will automatically route you to them as needed along long journeys.
Marco:
And you can see on the screen how many charging parking spots, charging bays or whatever they're called, are in each charger.
Marco:
It tells you whether each one is taken, so you can see if you're in a super busy area, like maybe the LA to San Francisco corridor, you can see, okay, well, this one is full right now, but the one a few miles up is not, so I'll wait for that one.
Marco:
I've never actually seen one full, not even close.
Marco:
But anyway, so this is like...
Marco:
it's really nice to have tesla supercharger network with the integration with the car and everything else because it's it's a very easy it's almost like apple versus other crap that you coupled it's it's like running a mac versus running desktop linux you can do it you can you can run desktop linux but you're signing yourself up for more work and at least things being a lot less nice than they are when you have like a total you know integrated experience
Marco:
The value of a supercharger network to people who don't drive Tesla, I think, is underrated.
Marco:
I really think that's a significant nice factor and significant lock-in.
Casey:
I think I half agree with you.
Casey:
I think I agree that as much as I do like to snark about Tesla, which it's become, you know, kind of a pastime of mine at this point, I really do think that there are a lot of great things about Tesla.
Casey:
And one of the best is unquestionably the supercharger network.
Casey:
And it is certainly much better done than any of the alternatives.
Casey:
That being said, my limited understanding, and I'll be the first to tell you, I don't have an electric car, so I don't really have to live this life.
Casey:
But my limited understanding is that the charging network that isn't superchargers has gotten considerably better in just the last year or two.
Casey:
And I suspect that, Marco, if you were to give it a really and truly honest shake, I think it's probably better than you think and perhaps not as good as I think.
Casey:
I think you're pooping on it a little more aggressively than necessary.
Casey:
But I don't think that you're overblowing the supercharger network.
Casey:
It really is phenomenal.
Casey:
And I wonder if...
Casey:
it would have been better or nicer or more in the spirit of, you know, togetherness and let's save the planet together.
Casey:
If Tesla would make that available to other electric cars as well.
Marco:
Oh God, please stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
Marco:
They're going to yell at you.
Marco:
They're going to yell at you.
John:
Tesla people are going to come.
John:
They do.
John:
They do make it available.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
Stop.
Marco:
Okay.
Marco:
If you say so.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
Apparently Tesla did like offer that.
Marco:
I don't know.
Marco:
I don't know what the reality of that offer was, but yeah, apparently Elon said that he would open with anybody, but I don't think anybody took him up on it, but who knows what that was actually, you know,
Marco:
It could have been real and everyone else is saying, oh, we'll do our own thing.
Marco:
Or it could have been like a Steve Jobs will open up FaceTime open standard kind of thing where it's like, okay, well, that never – that couldn't and wouldn't actually ever happen.
Marco:
Who knows?
Marco:
But it doesn't matter.
Marco:
Everyone went a different way.
Marco:
And I'm sure eventually the US will standardize on this.
Marco:
Like I think we will probably eventually have CCS being the standard required.
Marco:
But it would take government intervention to do that at this point because –
Marco:
Tesla has no reason, strategically or practically, they have no reason to change their connector right now.
Marco:
And no one else has any reason to adopt Tesla's connector.
Marco:
So I think we're going to be a two-system country for a while until regulation steps in and forces Tesla to change over.
Casey:
You're probably right.
Casey:
I also wanted to do a very brief and quick bit of follow-out.
Casey:
I thought that there was a really great conversation on Upgrade this week about both the Touch Bar and the HomePod, and it got me thinking about both of them.
Casey:
Kind of the crux of the argument made in a roundabout way, I think,
Casey:
from from both hosts was that the touch bar in particular was like severely limited they were talking about it in the context of a stream box which i'm not even entirely clear what that is but i guess it's like a little mini keyboard that has programmable buttons that you can you know tell via software what you want them to do
Casey:
Um, but you know, people were saying to them, well, why don't you use the touch bar for that?
Casey:
And they, they started talking about like things like better touch tool and, and other like hacks in which that would let you use the touch bar to be more customizable, but it's really, it's a hack.
Casey:
And like, I've dabbled with better touch tool for this.
Casey:
I think I'd mentioned on the show months and months ago that I had had my garage door status on the touch bar just because I could, um,
Casey:
Uh, but it was always so, of course I did.
Casey:
Uh, but it was, it was always so finicky and it never worked quite right.
Casey:
And I just didn't care for it.
Casey:
Plus the better touch tool while extremely powerful, it's, it's interface is super janky.
Casey:
Uh, and I just, I don't know.
Casey:
I didn't really care for it, but it got me thinking like, what if there was a first party way to completely customize the touch bar?
Casey:
I would be all over that because my experience with the touch bar is like, well, it's, it's a thing.
Casey:
It's fine.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
I don't, I don't hate it.
Casey:
Like I think Marco does.
Casey:
Um, but I don't particularly love it either.
Casey:
It's just, it's there.
Casey:
It's a thing.
Casey:
Um, but if you, if I could customize it, I think I would love it.
Casey:
I would absolutely love it.
Casey:
And it's, it's a bummer that it's Apple's way or nothing.
Casey:
And, and that's all you get.
Um,
Marco:
Well, that's welcome to Apple.
Casey:
No, exactly.
Casey:
Exactly right.
Casey:
And this also got me thinking about the HomePod, and this was discussed on the same episode.
Casey:
And I don't think they brought this up, or I'm going to claim it was an original idea that was spawned from that conversation.
Casey:
But I got to thinking, everyone has said for years, well, it's too bad the HomePod doesn't have an aux in.
Casey:
And it got me thinking, if there was a way to treat the HomePod as just a speaker,
Casey:
I probably would have got... I almost certainly would have gotten one as they're clearing out inventory or when Best Buy used to run those incredible sales.
Casey:
And I might have even gotten one before then, when they were full price.
Casey:
I probably wouldn't have because I'm cheap, but I would have thought about it a lot more.
Casey:
And it's really too bad that it's Apple's way or nothing, and it's all software.
Casey:
And if you don't like that, tough noogies.
Casey:
And it's just... Both of these products, I think, would be so much better...
Casey:
if we were allowed to get in there and use them in a way that isn't officially blessed by Apple.
Casey:
And I understand a lot of the reasons why that's not possible, especially for the touch bar, but it just bums me out.
Casey:
And I thought it was a really good conversation between Mike and Jason that if you have the time, I suggest you checking it out.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
This is actual silver fiber as part of a fabric blend that they make all sorts of stuff with, you know, underwear and stuff.
Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Marco:
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Casey:
Hey, guess what?
Casey:
We're going to get spring-loaded next week.
Marco:
Does that mean we're going to bounce?
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
But the little logo is pretty cool, right?
Marco:
It is pretty cool.
Marco:
I mean, it's one of the many modern Apple graphic design marketing logos.
Marco:
It doesn't really mean anything.
Marco:
People are trying to read into it.
Marco:
They're trying real hard, but there's nothing there to read into.
John:
I mean, it's a spring, and the season is spring.
John:
Yeah, that's it.
John:
As I said last show, there always is an interpretation, and it's the obvious one.
John:
That's the one.
Casey:
yeah it's spring it's loaded with products so as we all woke up on the east coast on uh what was it tuesday i believe uh apparently it was discovered that siri was telling people that there was an apple event on the 20th if you asked if you asked when when is the upcoming apple event
John:
siri would sometimes answer that it was coming in april 20th and sometimes would not this is another you know great thing about siri and i guess rollouts to cdns or who knows how siri works behind the scenes but depending on what you asked uh and where you were maybe in the information propagation across across apple's edge network through whatever third party they're using you might get a different answer
John:
But yeah, once Siri started saying that, I mean, my first thought was, did they do an event in April 20th in some year past and Siri is just regurgitating information from years ago?
John:
But no, it turned out that Siri was just a little bit ahead of the game and knew before we did.
Casey:
Indeed.
Casey:
So yeah, so Spring Loaded is the name of the event.
Casey:
It will be on 420, snicker, and it'll be at one in the afternoon ATP time, which is 10 in the morning Pacific and gosh knows whenever it is in your local time zone.
Casey:
What do we think is coming?
Marco:
A lot of people have said kind of, you know, the obvious things that are rumored, you know, things like new iPad Pro, maybe AirTags seem like an obvious thing.
Marco:
They're always like they should have been out by now.
Marco:
And I think they should have been out by now for like the last year.
Marco:
It seems like they're perpetually delayed by something.
Marco:
Who knows?
Marco:
But before we get to the actual hardware,
Marco:
Do you think there's going to be some kind of announcement made at this about either app store policy stuff or attempt to defend app tracking transparency?
Marco:
Because one thing that seems most likely is that iOS 14.5 will most likely launch shortly after or shortly before this event.
Marco:
This is going to be the event that debuts iOS 14.5, whether directly or indirectly.
Marco:
And 14.5 includes the app tracking transparency prompt that everyone's all up in arms about, like all the ad people are all up in arms about it.
Marco:
There's possibly some inquiries from Congress in this direction, certainly a lot of pressure from people like Facebook.
Marco:
And Apple's under increasing regulatory pressure from Congress and other governments, possible issues with the App Store, the Epic lawsuit.
Marco:
There's all sorts of stuff, all this pressure that we've talked about, right?
Marco:
One thing that kind of caught my eye is Senators Amy Klobuchar and Mike Lee, they sent this letter to Apple to appear at some hearing.
Marco:
Sorry, I haven't been following for the details.
Marco:
But initially it was reported that Apple declined to send someone.
Marco:
And then Apple gave this statement the other day that Bloomberg got a copy of that said, We are willing to participate in a hearing.
Marco:
We simply sought alternative dates in light of upcoming matters that have been scheduled for some time and that touch on similar issues.
Marco:
huh now the way i read that upcoming matters that have been together for some time is either going to be this or wwdc but wwdc is way far out this subcommittee was not trying to meet anytime then so it must be this event and so the part that gets me then is that touch on similar issues and this subcommittee uh seems to be about um the app store and app store policies and you know app store monopoly issues and you know whatever whatever else is there
Marco:
So do you think there's going to be something at this event that's going to be in that category of either, you know, app tracking transparency requirement defenses in some way, which is probably a given, or do you think they would actually involve some kind of app store policy change in this event?
Casey:
I don't see them doing an app store policy thing.
Casey:
Unless it's something that you could spin for a more traditional audience.
Casey:
Like I could see that being a WWDC thing, but I don't see them going into that at what is a marketing event for regular people.
Casey:
It's possible, but I doubt it.
Casey:
Now, app tracking transparency, I think that they will absolutely be touting that as look at what we are doing to protect you and protect your data.
Casey:
You are welcome.
Casey:
Totally.
Casey:
That is absolutely going to happen.
Casey:
I doubt they'll do much more than that.
Casey:
I doubt they'll do more than like an offhanded comment about why.
Casey:
Everyone is grumpy about app tracking transparency.
Casey:
I don't see it getting aggressive, but I absolutely think they're going to go on a probably medium length song and dance slash dog and pony show about why ATT is good for you and me.
John:
As the chat room is reminding us, there's also the epic court case that apparently is happening in early May.
John:
So that could be another thing that touches on similar issues.
John:
But like what what Casey just said, like in the language of the touches on similar issues.
John:
Yeah, rolling out public rolling out of 14.5 where you talk about it on stage at a spring Apple event that totally counts as touching on issues.
John:
So, I mean, I feel like everyone involved in the app tracking thing has already sort of had their say.
John:
All the involved parties have all complained both publicly and to Congress in various cases and in their court documents.
John:
And Apple has had its say and had its press releases and done interviews.
John:
I feel like there's...
John:
It's all over, but the court case is in the regulation right now.
John:
So I don't think Apple is going to do anything more than what they would normally do, which is, hey, here's a new product that's part of a new OS, and here's why we think it's cool.
John:
And then all those things that are going on in the background, all the court cases, all the congressional testimony, all of the public posturing, that will just continue apace.
John:
But I don't see Apple dedicating much of this event to it beyond just the 14.5 features, right?
John:
And I feel like from the...
John:
you know for like having an event at all there's products to announce right you know that that's got to take the majority of the time normally the 14.5 stuff is just you know it's going to be thrown in there because you know it's shipping or whatever but it's got all be about the products that's that's my take on it so far anyway
Marco:
i would agree with that yeah i think you're probably right but that's just that kind of threw me off you know that if this is what they were talking about which maybe it isn't i may i think maybe the epic lawsuit i think might be that that's probably a better bet um but still like it just kind of threw me off like this is probably just about products i can't imagine why they would announce any kind of app store policy change or anything like that at an event like this that makes no sense to me but yeah anyway you're probably right hopefully all right so let's move on to products
John:
this is kind of weird because all of all of our notions about product stuff other than like you know every year they release new ones of whatever products unless you're the mac mini or the apple tv um you know so yeah products are due but this year is all messed up because of all the part shortages and everything which are you know coming home to roost about now everyone is having trouble getting all the parts they need to build all their stuff whether you're a car manufacturer or you're making consumer electronics or tvs or yes even apple um
John:
So, and this event already seems like it's been kind of delayed from when we normally would have expected it to come.
John:
And of course, Apple can announce products that aren't ready to ship because it does that all the time.
John:
But it really throws a monkey wrench into predictions.
John:
If we didn't have these part shortages, I feel like new iPads would be a shoo-in.
John:
And I still feel like they are the most likely product that is being announced, especially since this event is later than we would have expected it to be.
John:
but kind of all bets are off if there's one annoying part of the ipads that they can't get and they you know in a reasonable amount of time then maybe they can't announce new ipads right and it's just going to be all be about other stuff but i feel like this is a hard to predict event because sort of for the first time the determining factor is not solely apple and how far along it is in developing a product because it's now like okay well regardless of what apple wants if you can't get the parts you can't get the parts
Casey:
Yeah, I would be very surprised if iPads don't show up at this event, because it has certainly been long enough, and I think everyone's been waiting long enough.
Casey:
Well, is that true?
Casey:
No, there was a 2020 iPad.
John:
It was just the A12Z, though.
John:
The iPad Pro desperately needs to be bumped, and it would have been already, I feel like, if we didn't have, if, you know, if supplies weren't constrained.
Marco:
No, I mean, like, the iPad Pro, quote, fourth generation with the A12Z, it's kind of, it's about as new as the 2012 Mac Pro was new, which our very first logo was based on.
Marco:
Like, it really was not very new.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
And to clarify, when we say iPads, I think we're most likely only talking about the iPad Pro because the no-name iPad and the iPad Air were both updated last fall.
Marco:
The iPad Mini needs an update.
Marco:
That could be interesting.
Marco:
The last iPad Mini update was two years ago, roughly.
Marco:
It could be minis and pros, which would be kind of an odd combination.
Marco:
But those are both the ones that are overdue for updates.
Marco:
And there have been loose rumors about minis here and there, but nothing super firm.
Marco:
But there have been lots of rumors about iPad Pro.
Marco:
So it really does seem very likely that it's iPad Pro time.
Casey:
I mean, I have a 2018 iPad Pro when it first went to Face ID, and I can use the fancy Magic Keyboard with it, and I do.
Casey:
And the 2021 last year, it added the new processor, and it added LiDAR, didn't it, if I'm not mistaken?
Casey:
So there's that.
Marco:
Yes, but who cares?
Casey:
Agreed, agreed.
Marco:
Well, you know, Tim Cook could use it to show a chart.
Casey:
That's true.
Casey:
We know he loves his charts.
Casey:
So I didn't feel compelled to upgrade at the time.
Casey:
And I don't really even feel sitting here today before I see the new hotness.
Casey:
I don't even really feel that compelled to upgrade now.
Casey:
Like I can't say that my 2018 iPad Pro feels sluggish or slow.
Casey:
It's still a really nice device.
Casey:
So I
Casey:
I'm sure if I see the new iPads, I'm going to immediately buy one because I'm weak.
Casey:
But nevertheless, there's nothing that I feel like I'm desperately seeking in terms of improvements.
Casey:
That being said, what everyone seems to expect sometime soon, be that with hardware, software or both, is improved external display support.
Casey:
And though that's not something that I personally see myself doing very often, if at all, with an iPad, I am extremely interested and my eyebrow is very raised with regard to what that would look like and how it would work.
Casey:
And here again, they were talking about that on Upgrade today.
Casey:
Well, I listened today.
Casey:
It was, I think, a day or two ago that it came out.
Casey:
And it got me thinking, when we look back on bigger phones, when it went from whatever, three and a half inches or whatever it was, to four inches, if I remember right, around the iPhone 4 era, that was somewhat foretold.
Casey:
No, no, it wasn't then.
Casey:
It wasn't then.
Casey:
It was after that.
Casey:
And whatever it was, it doesn't matter.
Casey:
It was foretold by AutoLayout.
Casey:
So AutoLayout is an API that...
Casey:
Is that what it was?
Marco:
The iPhone 5 introduced the 4-inch screen from 3.5, which was the one before that.
Marco:
And then the iPhone 6 introduced the 4.7-inch screen.
Casey:
You're right.
Casey:
Thank you.
Casey:
That is exactly what it was.
Casey:
So when they went to the 4.7-inch screen, they needed to support more than one size.
Casey:
You couldn't just call it slightly bigger and kind of just stretch everything.
Casey:
And there needed to be an API for that.
Casey:
And the summer before that happened, you know, we got introduced to auto layout and it was pitched, if I recall correctly, at the time is like, oh, you can make things work much nicer in both landscape and portrait.
Casey:
It's great.
Casey:
That's the only thing you'll need this for.
Casey:
Okay.
Marco:
They like beat us over the head with it.
Marco:
Like, I remember like all the hints at that WWDC.
Marco:
It was it was hilarious.
Marco:
Like how they were like.
Marco:
Read what we're saying.
Marco:
Read between the lines.
Marco:
You can make things flexible sizes.
Marco:
It was so obvious.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
So anyway, so I haven't really seen any even hints of an API like that for...
Casey:
for more robust external display support.
Casey:
Now, that doesn't mean it won't happen.
Casey:
And in fact, I don't remember there being terribly strong hints about cursor support, or certainly not in the API sense of the word, before that dropped.
Casey:
But there's nothing that I see that indicates that it's imminent other than Apple Silicon using Thunderbolt in the new Macs.
Casey:
So do you guys reckon that external display support is one of the things that we're going to get this year, even if not this particular event?
Marco:
In addition to what it already has?
Marco:
Because it already has external display support.
Casey:
Right, I'm sorry, yes.
Marco:
Are you saying like external touchscreen support?
Casey:
No, not necessarily.
Casey:
Just something better than... Are there external touchscreen?
Casey:
I don't even think so.
Casey:
I don't even know if people sell those.
Casey:
I mean, there were at one point.
Casey:
I don't know if they still are.
Marco:
I'm sure someone does, but I don't know if anybody sells a good one that you'd actually want to use for this purpose.
Casey:
Exactly.
Casey:
But I should still be more specific.
Casey:
I'm sorry.
Casey:
Yes, there is external display support as is today.
Casey:
But what I mean is something more robust than typically it's just screen mirroring.
Casey:
Like if you look at Apple Fitness Plus, for goodness sakes, all it is is screen mirroring.
Casey:
It doesn't even do the thing like Plex does where it takes up the entire screen for video.
Casey:
All it is, is mirroring the iPad screen.
Casey:
Is it pillar box where you have the bars on the left and the right?
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
Okay, so it's that.
Casey:
And it looks like garbage.
Casey:
And that's Apple Fitness Plus, for goodness sakes.
Casey:
So I'm curious if there's better app support.
Casey:
So maybe, maybe, maybe even some sort of quote-unquote windowing, although I think that's probably a bit aggressive.
Casey:
I just, I wonder if there's more robust external display support
Casey:
perhaps coming like the way i see this playing out if it were to happen at all is we get the hardware with thunderbolt display support next week but no new software changes and it's all still the same jankiness it is today and then at wwdc suddenly the software lands where we start getting much better apis with much better external external display support
Marco:
I think the real question has to be, like, what are people actually using external displays for?
Marco:
Where is the demand there?
Marco:
And I think, obviously, you know, we've heard from people, like Federico has tried it, like, we've heard from people who have tried it, and some of them still do it, but it's not a common case.
Marco:
And, you know, you could argue, is this a chicken and egg problem?
Marco:
Like, would more people do it if...
Marco:
If you could do more with it and probably that's I'm sure that I'm sure that is part of the issue.
Marco:
But I think unless there is external touchscreen support and people start making external touch screens and you know if you're waiting for Apple to make one I got news for you like they won't even make very many regular screens.
Marco:
But I think if you had input solved on the iPad, that would make more sense.
Marco:
It makes tons of sense to have lots of big screens, external support for Macs, because you're not directly touching the screen to interact with everything.
Marco:
So maybe on the iPad, since they have added keyboard and trackpad support and made it better over time, and they only recently added trackpad support, maybe on the iPad, trackpad support is what will make that more useful to people.
Marco:
because now you don't have to be touching everything to do everything on an iPad.
Marco:
But I still don't think it is a very big market enough for Apple to really cater that much to it.
Marco:
So I'm honestly not predicting anything like that changing at this time.
Marco:
Whatever the new iPads can do, if they have new hardware abilities, if there was a major software break, if there was some big new thing that the OS was going to allow them to do,
Marco:
I think we would have seen leaks of that with iOS 14.5 betas because the version of iOS they're going to be running is iOS 14.5.
Marco:
So it seems very unlikely to me that there's going to be something like that.
Marco:
It seems like 14.5 has been done and ready for a while.
Marco:
We've had, I think, eight betas of it so far.
Marco:
So I don't think we're seeing that kind of change.
Marco:
So I'm guessing the – assuming that we're getting new iPad Pros, I'm guessing the nature of how they are better –
Marco:
is much more like hardware side than software side.
Marco:
And the hardware side, I don't necessarily think it needs to be that much.
Marco:
There have been the rumors of the mini LED screen and for that possibly only being on the larger model, which I think that's probably fine.
Marco:
If all they do is basically a speed bump update, you know, they skip the A13.
Marco:
If they just go from A12X slash Z to something, it's A14 like.
Marco:
A14X most likely is what it would be called, which would be a overall somewhat similar chip to the M1.
Marco:
I think that could be a perfectly fine update.
Marco:
And that's all it necessarily would need to be.
Marco:
Because as you opened up with, Casey, the iPad Pro, if you have one of the 2018-2020-ish models of the iPad Pro, it's still really good.
Marco:
I use mine.
Marco:
It's still really good.
Marco:
And even though it is, at this point, pretty old hardware...
Marco:
It turns out it was really great then, and it held up, and it's still really great today.
Marco:
I know a lot of people who use iPads to a lot of different degrees of power-level usage, but I know almost nobody who uses an iPad for anything for which the difference between the A12X and a presumed A14X would make a huge difference to their life.
Marco:
because most people doing most workflows on the iPad aren't being limited by processor speed or GPU speed.
Marco:
That's not a common case as far as I can tell, at least among anybody I know who is an iPad Power user.
Marco:
So I think it's much, much more likely that this is going to be a fairly boring spec bump update, and that'll be fine.
Marco:
That's all it really needs.
Marco:
And I honestly, I know I say this every single time,
Marco:
I can't imagine that I would even upgrade to it because my current iPad is totally fine.
Marco:
I have the same with it.
Marco:
I have the 11-inch iPad Pro from 2018.
Marco:
I have no issues with it.
Marco:
I actually don't even use it that heavily anymore ever since the M1 MacBook Air.
Marco:
I've been using the iPad a lot less since then.
Marco:
And so I think for iPad Power users, it's nice to just kind of get it updated so it's no longer so old and stale.
Marco:
But I don't think it's going to set the world on fire any more than the old one did because the old one was really good and is still really good.
John:
I feel like the hardware is probably going to be out ahead of the software in the usual way.
John:
Like, uh, I forgot if Casey just said it before, I think of like, uh, you know, so you released the bumped hardware, but then the big software support, if you're planning on it is announced at WWC with the big new OS in general, that's been Apple's move.
John:
Um,
John:
Apple could be changing the way it releases features.
John:
I know 14.5 has been in beta in a long time, but Apple has had some success occasionally hiding features from us in a beta, especially if we're not looking for it, if they actually don't leak out symbols they didn't mean to leak, especially if it's like a minor feature.
John:
So there's a possibility that 14.5 could just have slightly better external display support in a basic way.
John:
And I haven't been keeping up with the iPad rumors, so forgive me if this is not even in the offing, but I remember...
John:
reading something about this a while back and it was already mentioned here about the ipad's going to thunderbolt instead of just plain usbc so if you've got the inside of this ipad and it's got an a14x which looks a lot like an m1 and m1 max have thunderbolts right it's not it's not so far to have a leap to say there's some sharing of componentry there where you can imagine an ipad with thunderbolts coming out right and i believe that has been rumored right assuming that is you know rumored for this particular thing
John:
like marco was saying it's a little bit tricky how do you roll out your new ipad pro with faster processor grade everyone loves that and a nicer screen it's easy to pitch that and now the usbc port isn't just usbc it's thunderbolt and then what do you say about that and you can use it to well you can't do all the cool external display stuff because that's going to require ios 15 it's not out yet and we're not ready to announce that uh you can use external storage faster maybe you can use the pro display xdr that way because i don't think the current one can do it
John:
yeah maybe but like that's that's where you get into like how do you have to have some kind of better external display support right to tout to say okay now a thunderbolt what could you do with thunderbolt that you couldn't do before i suppose faster transfer speeds to storage but like is that a really important use case for ipad users i don't know um and then you can drive different or better monitors but then that requires you know i assume it requires some kind of reasonable bumps in software support so
John:
If these things come out and have Thunderbolt ports in them, Apple's going to have to have something to say about it.
John:
And because this is the iPad Pro, it's not ridiculous for them to tout features that basically nobody needs, right?
John:
Because it's the Pro product.
John:
It's their top-of-the-line iPad.
John:
So you get the mini LED screen, which most people don't care about, right?
John:
You know, we get better black levels.
John:
Who cares?
John:
Whatever.
John:
You get the faster processor, which, as you both said, most people who are casual iPad users aren't feeling like their current one is slow.
John:
And you've got a Thunderbolt port instead of USB, and most iPad users probably never connect anything there besides the charger, right?
John:
But this is the Pro product.
John:
So if there's anybody who's using an iPad who wants more of these things, that's what Apple delivers.
John:
So I can see them doing a picture of this product with saying, screen's better, processor's faster, maybe it's got more RAM, but we'll never mention that.
John:
And now it's got a Thunderbolt port, and here's two things you can do with it.
John:
And maybe some minor additional support in 14.5 in those.
John:
And then a bigger coming out, you know, in the iPad user's dreams, a bigger coming out where you can have more than just mirroring and, you know, not necessarily windows, but like external touchscreen support or whatever, whatever fantasy you have about a real pro level support for external monitors waiting until 15, but having the groundwork laid by the hardware that we see on the 20th.
Casey:
I think that makes sense.
Casey:
So sitting here today, assuming, you know, a relatively straightforward bump and no, no curveballs or anything.
Casey:
Marco, do you think you would buy a new iPad next week?
Marco:
I don't think so, honestly.
Marco:
I barely even use the one I have anymore.
Marco:
I don't see what a new one would change that would make me say I have to have that.
Casey:
That's fair.
Casey:
John?
John:
I'm in the market for one because I don't even have one with Face ID.
John:
I don't have any of this generation.
John:
It's still on the iPad 3.
John:
no the the ipad pro like the first ipad pro with touch idea oh the 9.7 yeah but anyway i spend a lot of time watching tv shows on my ipad believe it or not and so a better screen does appeal to me but not enough that i'm going to buy the 12.9 to get it so remains to be seen if if you know i don't need most of the features i just listed but i would like a newer ipad and i would like a better screen and you know um if this has both of them i'm probably in the market for it but
John:
There's also the potential that I would just wait until Christmas and get it as a Christmas present for myself.
John:
Like I'm not desperate for it.
Casey:
Yeah, I think if there's something really interesting and really exciting, I would think about it.
Casey:
But none of the things that I've heard rumored are my definition of interesting or exciting.
Casey:
And so I don't plan to get one, but remind me of this in a week and a day when I already have one on order.
Yeah.
Casey:
Other things that may be coming out, AirTags.
Casey:
There's been motion over the last couple of weeks with regard to FindMy and the FindMy network.
Casey:
I do think this is super cool.
Casey:
The idea that you can make a tag or a thing, a dongle, a widget that
Casey:
emits Bluetooth low-energy pulses, beacons, if you will, and literally every iPhone in the world that has the appropriate hardware will be listening for those pings and will take note of where that iPhone is geographically when it heard the ping and what time it was and so on and so forth, and will, in a privacy-conscious way, send that data to Apple such that if you lose something, you can say, oh, I've lost my keys or what have you, and...
Casey:
Apple can look at where what iPhone or where was an iPhone that has seen that unique Bluetooth low energy ping.
Casey:
Oh, it was in the neighbor's yard, you know, 300 yards away.
Casey:
That's where you need to look.
Casey:
And you can do all this without having an internet connection on the device that's doing all the pinging away.
Casey:
It's just pinging away and the iPhones will hear it.
Casey:
And then they will tell Apple about it using their internet connections.
Casey:
This is very similar in spirit to how the COVID tracking API works.
Casey:
I love this.
Casey:
I think this is super cool.
Casey:
I am surprised but glad that Apple has allowed third parties to get in on this.
Casey:
With regard to AirTags, I mean, I feel like everyone has been saying for three years, yep, this is the one.
Casey:
We're going to get it this time.
Casey:
And I have no reason to say differently this time, but I don't know.
Casey:
We'll see what happens.
Casey:
John, are they going to have AirTags next week?
John:
i can't like the third party apple did a press release of like look at all these third party products they use the find my network which by the way opening up the find my network to third parties was i think announced last year's wwdc right oh was it i didn't remember it wasn't super recent yeah it's been a long time coming but like they apple did a press release recently listing actual products here are some products that are either shipping now or shipping soon in a week or a month or whatever that take advantage of this uh in and so what what does that mean for air tags um
John:
Does it mean that Apple was kind of like coming out ahead of time and saying, well, let's talk about some third party products because on the 20th, we're just going to talk about AirTags.
John:
And so we want to give our partners like a boost to say, just so you don't feel bad before we steal all your limelight.
John:
Let's we Apple will promote your product because you're sort of premier partners, the first people out of the door with these products.
John:
Right.
John:
And that would mean AirTags are coming.
John:
The flip side of that is AirTags are still not ready.
John:
And Apple just wants to say, look, this is, you know, that find my thing that we announced last year at WWDC.
John:
It's not, you know, we're not doing nothing with it.
John:
Things have been happening.
John:
No, we haven't released anything, but third parties have integrated.
John:
Like, they want a success story.
John:
We announced this Find My Network at WWC, and then it's almost a year later, we want to be able to say, hey, something has come of that announcement.
John:
Look at these third-party products you can buy.
John:
And that would be cover for them not releasing AirTags at this event because they I don't know.
John:
I don't understand why AirTags are not like we don't have rumors of them catching fire like the air power matter or anything.
John:
Right.
John:
They don't seem like they would use any kind of component or technology that is.
John:
unavailable to apple maybe i'm wrong about that maybe they're you know there's five nanometer tiny chips in there to save energy or something but it's mysterious why they haven't been released we found so many hints of them on all sorts of software that apple has released so it seems like you know there's traces of them in many many versions ago so it seems like they were planned for much earlier than they have been released so i think it's a mystery it's also kind of a mystery of like
John:
who will care that much about air tags?
John:
I mean, it's cool.
John:
Like, I mean, there's been existing products in this space before, uh, and Apple, you know, Casey pointed out the COVID tracking thing, like the basically underlying technology and the security and privacy stuff are things that Apple has talked about before.
John:
Um, so it's like if they announced them, I know there's nobody in the room cause it's all virtual now.
John:
Right.
John:
But,
John:
Who's super excited about AirTags at this point?
John:
They don't have to be super excited about every product, but it seems like we might all be burned out in AirTags and they haven't even been released yet.
John:
That to me is the funniest thing.
Marco:
It's like we are so excited about this product.
Marco:
It's very similar to AirPower, what happened with that, which is like AirPower was a charging mat.
Marco:
That's not super exciting, really.
Marco:
In the grand scheme of things, Apple releases all sorts of little accessories that aren't super exciting, that don't get much attention from the press.
Marco:
But when there seems like there's some weird story like, what happened?
Marco:
Why isn't this being released?
Marco:
Then it becomes interesting.
Marco:
so yeah air tags i mean i'm sure some people will find them incredibly useful uh i've i'm not usually in the market like i've never there's all these things like tile trackers in the space that have already existed for years and i've never used any of those things because i don't i don't really i'm not really in the market but if apple made them yeah i'd probably buy a few i'd probably put like put them like on our bikes maybe in my backpack i put one there and that's maybe that's about it
Marco:
I don't lose stuff that often.
Marco:
I don't know.
Marco:
But it's a cool idea for a product.
Marco:
Like you, I think the tech involved to make it happen with the huge network of phones that I think was very clearly related to the exposure tracking stuff.
Marco:
I think that's just a cool, it's a cool technical idea.
Marco:
But this is a product that they're going to release and maybe we'll buy a few of them and then we'll probably never talk about them again.
John:
I mean, but Find My exists on a Macs forever.
John:
Like, it's not like the COVID tracking is the first time they did Find My, right?
John:
Isn't this all the same tech and the same, you know, system, right?
Marco:
I think using Bluetooth LE to do like a giant worldwide mesh network of finding things, I think that's new.
Marco:
So the Macs do use Wi-Fi for it?
John:
I just assume the Macs are using Bluetooth as well, but maybe not.
John:
I don't think so, no.
Casey:
I thought that they were using an internet connection like Wi-Fi or Ethernet if they happen to be plugged in.
Casey:
I'm not confident I'm right about that.
Casey:
But yes, I thought up until the COVID tracking and now Find My, I didn't think that there was anything that was run via Bluetooth Low Energy.
Casey:
I thought everything required an internet connection and required an onboard GPS even.
Casey:
And I very well could be wrong about that, but that was my understanding.
John:
Yeah, it might be some hybrid type system.
John:
But here's the thing about all these features, right?
John:
The use case is I can't find my thing, right?
John:
And that use case, it's a real use case, but it's not a use case that people get excited about.
John:
Because if you've lost something, you're already kind of in a distressing situation.
John:
You want to avoid losing things.
John:
It's not like, you know, it's... I was going to make another Destiny analogy, but make too many of those and no one will get it.
John:
But it's...
John:
it's not fun to think about something that helps you out when you are in a situation you're already unhappy about, right?
John:
It's much more fun to think about a thing that can help you do something you're excited to do.
John:
So like say you're an artist and the Apple Pencil comes out and you're excited about that because you already like drawing and this can help you do a thing you already like to do more or better, right?
John:
Nobody likes to lose things, right?
John:
And even though you'll be thankful that this is around when you have to find something, you have to get into a distressed state before you get to use this product at all.
John:
So it's kind of like buying insurance.
John:
A certain personality type may be super excited to buy AirTags and put it on all their items so they can be excited when they lose something to find it again.
John:
But I think for a lot of people, this is not a product with a lot of sizzle.
John:
Unless there's more to it than we know, but we'll see.
John:
I mean, it's almost like being a prepper.
John:
Like you want things to go wrong so you can use it.
John:
Yeah.
John:
And again, some people some people like to be well prepared and have things organized and they get excited the first time they get to use it.
John:
But I don't I'm not sure that's the common case.
John:
And what this has me thinking of, like in our document here, the next thing we have as potential announcements are AR, VR, you know, goggle things and new Macs.
John:
Right.
John:
And it starts to tail off in the things that we have sort of solid rumors of as far as I know.
John:
Again, I haven't been keeping up with this, but.
John:
Are iPads and AirTags, even assuming AirTags are real, is that enough for an entire event?
John:
What if there's no AirTags and it's just iPads?
John:
Is that enough for an event?
John:
iPads plus 14.5?
John:
I'm really hard-pressed to think of what the other thing...
John:
would be in this uh obviously if it's ar vr goggles then there needs to be nothing else because that would be just a gigantic deal and they would make such a huge deal about it you know i don't think we're getting anything ar vr related yeah and then of course there's uh you know new macs which at any time you can roll out new macs with the arm processors because we really have no idea what that pipeline looks like and we know
John:
uh there you know there are still macs out there that they could release with not much of a radical change from the current macs and they release you could release a low-end iMac as your first arm-based iMac that doesn't that has a processor that is m1-ish and it would be fine uh like but again i haven't heard any rumors about that i'm i don't want to read anything in the title but it says it's supposed to be loaded and i've asked for a loaded baked potato and it just comes with ipads on it i feel like i'm disappointed yeah
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
I hear what you're saying.
Casey:
I think it is certainly possible that we'll get some Mac of some flavor at this event.
Casey:
I certainly do not think we're going to get anything goggles at all.
Casey:
That being said, though, the last couple of events, they haven't been the two-hour jam-packed extravaganzas that they were when people were there.
Casey:
Now that Apple has embraced a more quick and concise event, I think iPads and AirTags
John:
might be enough like that and maybe something about ios yeah i was gonna say that and something about ios 14.5 and that's an hour right yeah you've been right that they like they don't feel the need to make it worth your while to at least fill 90 minutes it's like if they only have if they only have 57 minutes worth of content you get 57 minutes worth of content right
Marco:
Even though they could theoretically have an event that's 10 minutes long because it's all digital and everything, I don't think they would.
Marco:
I think they like saving it up for when you can make a bigger splash.
Marco:
That's always been their style.
Marco:
I think it always will be their style.
Marco:
I think there's going to be – and I agree.
Marco:
So far, unless there's some massive thing about the iPads that has not been rumored and that there's going to be no software leaks for –
Marco:
I don't think the iPads are that interesting, honestly.
Marco:
I think the same thing about AirTags.
Marco:
It's interesting products on a very shallow level, but not super exciting for an event.
Marco:
So I do agree with your inclinations that it is probably more than just that being announced.
Marco:
14.5, I think, will have some time, obviously.
Marco:
I do think they're going to push hard on the value of the App Store, if not directly, maybe indirectly, because they're in a...
Marco:
pretty significant pr battle with the world about that right now so i do think they're going to use this event to push on that a little bit to say how great their system is and how how much they protect privacy and here's the new app tracking transparency feature and here's how much it's going to protect everyone's privacy here's why it's so important we really believe in this blah blah so that i think is a shoo-in um there are a couple features there's there's the mask unlock which i think they might even they might mention that in the event because that's new to 14.5 and that's pretty useful to a lot of people right now so that i can see them you know doing mask watch unlock thing
Marco:
Uh, but again, like we're not, we're not reaching like loaded level here.
John:
So I've got, I've got an idea that remember that fits with the iPad things.
John:
Uh, I mean, it's a long shot, but, uh, the, uh, external non 6k display that you could use with your new Thunderbolt iPad.
John:
that's interesting yeah it's not a six thousand dollar display it fits with the event because like now apple finally finds it because like what you got this ipad what display are you supposed to use it with before apple didn't sell one except for the xdr which is too big and you know expensive uh so now there is this if they're ever going to do a display like that this would be a reasonable event for them to announce that because what are they going to do announce it at the mac mini event right like it's
John:
Well, yeah, but they already did it.
John:
There is no Mac Mini event.
John:
They could do it when they released laptops, but they already released laptops or at least one round of laptops, and they didn't.
John:
It's a long shot, but at least it would fit with the event.
John:
And I also think we might be underestimating, I mean, this ties into your sort of App Store rah-rah stuff, underestimating how much time Apple may be willing to burn demonstrating applications for the iPad Pro app.
John:
that they think reflect well on it as a platform.
John:
Oh, they love that stuff.
John:
Right.
John:
And so in the in-person ones, they would burn more time than we would want it.
John:
They'd go to the AR table.
John:
They'd have five game demos that we'd all just like, right?
John:
And they don't need to do that in the virtual ones.
John:
But they do want to say, like, to answer the question, what can I do with these new iPad Pros?
John:
And that's the perfect time to tout out a bunch of, you know, big third-party companies that have amazing new products that wouldn't be possible without the power of the A14X.
John:
And that burns up a lot of time.
John:
And so there you do your iPads and your 14.5 and you're already at like 36 minutes, right?
John:
And then you just need one other thing to fill it out to have a reasonable size event.
Marco:
I think waiting for the external smaller display, I think we have a longer wait for that.
Marco:
Because the latest rumor on that was from a few months back and it basically said like they were starting to work on one.
John:
But the thing is like...
John:
you know i mean depending on what they do the whole point of this one is you don't have to try that hard in this one apple you don't you don't need to make a miniature xdr you just need to make buy an lcd from somebody but you know and put it oh yeah but that's not how they do things i mean look when when they made the new mac pro we know when they started working on that i know but but it's so much it's so much harder to do the xdr like i i feel like the only the only reason apple couldn't have a you know essentially an external 5k display ready right now
John:
is because it's not a high priority.
John:
Honestly, I don't think it is a high priority.
John:
If they're ever going to do it at all, they might as well just wait until, like, the pro laptops come out or whatever.
John:
But it would tie in with the iPad announcement.
John:
So if it happens that, you know, oh, it turns out this product came together faster than we thought, this is a reasonable time to announce it, especially if there's any kind of better external display support.
John:
So here's the question.
Marco:
Max, then, at this event.
Marco:
Now, WWDC is in a couple of months.
Marco:
Now, it's my opinion that Apple does not actually like announcing hardware at WBDC because they have so many software platforms these days that they want to cram as much in about how great their software is as possible during that time.
Marco:
Because WBDC is really the celebration of here's what the next year of software is going to be like.
Marco:
Look at this cool software.
Marco:
It's usually not a hardware-focused event.
Marco:
My theory is maybe what we expected to come at WBDC,
Marco:
i think namely the 15 inch macbook pro with the m1 or m1x whatever it would be maybe that's going to come here because you know if you're going to really jam pack an event i think you're going to need some macs in this event uh and the imac with apple silicon i think i think that's a shoe in i think we're almost certain to get that at this event
Marco:
And once you have, assuming that the higher-end iMacs with M1s would have some kind of M1X variant, because it's a higher-end computer, you'd probably want more cores and everything, well, that's probably going to be the exact same chip that they put in the 15-inch or 16-inch MacBook Pro.
Marco:
So they would presumably, maybe, be able to announce those two products at the same time.
Marco:
And so maybe this is the event that we get...
Marco:
the iMac with Apple Silicon, and the 16-inch MacBook Pro.
Marco:
Once you add all that together, that would be... That would be loaded.
Marco:
Especially because the rumor is that the new laptops are going to have a case redesign, I believe, with this generation.
Marco:
Isn't that the current rumor?
Casey:
It was months ago.
Casey:
I haven't seen that recently.
Casey:
But yes, it certainly was being said that the next 15-inch is going to get the new design.
Marco:
Right, so if there's a 16, if there's even a 14, who knows, but if there's a new 16 and a new high-end 13 slash 14 Pro and iMacs and iPad Pros and AirTags and 14.5, that's a loaded event.
Marco:
Well, I just got to cut off the arrow tags.
John:
Here's the problem.
John:
The one is I want Max.
John:
This is the product I care about the most here.
John:
So it's hard for me to believe in them.
John:
The second is our entire sort of like past, I don't know, like, you know, several decades of
John:
uh sort of sensing when new macs are coming we've always had external cues right and so like what intel chips are available how old are the is the hardware in the stuff that we're using now what could what is possible out there in the competitive landscape and arm-based macs have screwed all that up because first of all
John:
our Macs are already far ahead of everybody else in performance.
John:
So it's not like we're so like, Oh, they got to release new Macs.
John:
Cause the, cause the Macs are so slow.
John:
It's like, well, yeah, the Intel ones, but like we, that's not a problem.
John:
The second thing is we have no idea what Apple's roadmaps are for its own chips that literally no one else in the entire world is allowed to use.
John:
So they're really good at keeping those things secret.
John:
So it's like, how do you judge when like,
John:
When is when are the next round of Macs available?
John:
Why weren't they available when the original ones come out?
John:
When are they planned?
John:
It's entirely up to Apple.
John:
There's there's so little to grab onto in the external world to say, well, based on sort of the landscape of the parts that go into Intel based laptops, we think now combined with Apple's normal sort of cadence is a time to expect laptops.
John:
like the only thing that we can say i think the only thing we have to hang on to here and even this is tenuous is like okay well they're not releasing the arm mac pro at this event right because that because that is we think they have a lot the biggest challenge they have is how do you how do you do that we talked about many many times right but almost all their other computers we know exactly how they would do it we kind of know what it would look like and why don't we have them now because apple decided this is the order they're doing things for whatever reason right
John:
Uh, and so it's so hard to predict when, you know, what, what the cadence of Mac stuff's going to be.
John:
Uh, I hope that it is as you predicted, but I, I was looking at this lineup and saying, I put new Macs below AR VR goggles just because I felt like, well, at least AR VR goggles is, is one thing.
John:
And it's, is, you know, important to, those are probably WC, but anyway, like who knows, who knows that they could just decide not to release those.
John:
Cause the stupid VR rumors like, yeah, this is the 15th headset that they've had floating around Apple, but are they going to release it as a product?
John:
I don't know.
John:
So I am having having so much trouble sort of pinning down what the cadence of Macs are.
John:
It will get easier as the two year time limit comes up on us because then it's going to be like, well, Apple said two years and they usually try to hit their dates.
John:
And again, there doesn't seem like there's any reason they would miss it for anything except for anything except for the Mac Pro.
John:
But right now we're kind of in the middle.
John:
So it would be a good time for another round of Macs to come out.
John:
but so would WWDC.
John:
And I agree with Marco that in general they don't want to sort of overwhelm WWDC with Macs, but they've done it before.
John:
I mean, the original Retina 15-inch was WWDC, wasn't it?
John:
Yep.
John:
As was the 10.5-inch iPad Pro.
John:
Right.
John:
And they made a big stink about it, and it was like sometimes that's just how the timing works out.
John:
So, yeah, I'm rooting for Macs, but I can't bring myself to believe it.
Okay.
Casey:
I don't know.
Casey:
I still think this is going to be a shorter event, and I think it's going to be more focused than that.
Casey:
But I would be very pleased to be wrong, and I would be very pleased to see new Macs show up, among many other things.
Marco:
Oh, it's probably also going to be stupid stuff like new watch band colors.
Casey:
Yeah, that's true.
John:
maybe i don't i don't know i haven't been keeping up with the rumors but like yeah there's there's room for little things like that but i think apple does want to have some kind of coherence to the event and apple is not above releasing things that minor without an event so if new watch band callers are out they'll just have a press release and everyone will see the new watch band callers they do it every season right
Marco:
Oh, maybe, here's kind of a wild card, maybe we get a retail update from Deidre O'Brien to slowly over time increase her public presence so that people get used to her as a possible future CEO.
John:
Do people care about retail Apple stores in these COVID times?
John:
That seems like a time filler for an in-person event more than something they would put in the virtual one.
Marco:
Maybe she could say how well they've handled this and how they've enabled people all around the world to get their stuff done and everything.
Marco:
Because honestly, the more research I do, the more I think Deidre O'Brien is very high on the list of future CEOs.
Marco:
And I think they're going to want to, in the same way that they've increased Jeff Williams' public presence over time, I think we're going to see more of O'Brien as well.
Casey:
Certainly possible.
Casey:
I don't see that happening myself, but it's within the realm of possibility for sure.
Marco:
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Casey:
All right, let's do some Ask ATP.
Casey:
And Josh Erickson has two questions.
Casey:
Josh writes, should one buy a single HomePod or a dual HomePod mini?
Casey:
And well, I'll ask you guys to answer that in a moment.
Casey:
Josh also writes, given that they already have a single HomePod, should they get a second HomePod or a dual HomePod mini?
Casey:
For reference, Josh writes, they're not an audiophile.
Casey:
They just like listening to music in their kitchen at low to moderate volumes.
Casey:
So coming back to the two questions, Marco, single HomePod or dual HomePod mini?
Marco:
No question.
Marco:
I would take a dual setup anytime, even if each one individually doesn't sound as good as the big HomePod.
Marco:
I would greatly prefer a dual HomePod mini if my only other option was a single HomePod.
Marco:
Now, the second part of the question complicates matters.
Marco:
Josh already has a single big HomePod.
Marco:
So the question is really a second big one for $300 or replacing it with two little ones for $200.
Marco:
The good news is there's plenty of big HomePods in stock still.
John:
Only in white.
John:
They were potentially manufactured in 2017, but Apple cannot get rid of them.
John:
So maybe you can get a deal.
John:
Yes.
Marco:
So I would say...
Marco:
under the condition if your first home pod is white and therefore you get it matching because i couldn't bear a mismatch um i would say get get a second big home pod because what you're basically getting is for an extra hundred bucks over the other options as you already own one uh it's just a hundred dollars more would get you a way better sounding stereo pair than
Marco:
the like replacing it with two home pod minis that being said obviously there's other factors like if you have a use for the first one somewhere else in the house and then maybe you you know maybe you use a dual home pod minis in the current place where the first one is and you then you can get it in another room with the you know quote old first one that's fine too but two big home pods sound way better than two home pod minis and two of either one is better than one of the other one so
Casey:
All right, John, single home pod or dual home pod mini.
Casey:
And if you already had one big home pod, would you get a second big one or two new little ones?
John:
I just assumed this was a question for Marco.
John:
I have no opinion on any of this because I've never heard any kind of dual home pod set up mini or otherwise.
John:
So I, uh,
John:
I really have no idea, but honestly, if I had to just give a suggestion, I would say find a cheap Big HomePod Mini, or Big HomePod rather, and add it to your existing one.
John:
Because you've already got the one.
John:
You already bit the bullet.
John:
You already did the hard thing, which is paid probably full price for the big one.
John:
Find another big one.
John:
That's my suggestion.
John:
Have you ever watched TV with a full-blown home theater system?
Marco:
I sure have.
Marco:
Have you ever watched TV on your phone?
No.
Marco:
Sure have.
Marco:
Okay, do you realize that there's a difference in the audio quality?
Marco:
But none of these HomePods have surround speakers, so it's not Apple.
Marco:
No, but when you compare one point to multiple points, heck, even, you know what?
Marco:
Compare it to a soundbar.
Marco:
Everyone's favorite thing, the soundbar.
Marco:
Okay, compare the way TV sounds with just a soundbar.
Marco:
Okay.
Marco:
versus how it sounds with left and right dedicated speakers.
Marco:
I don't even care about the rears.
Marco:
Just left and right dedicated speakers versus a soundbar in the middle, left and right speakers sound way better.
Marco:
Way better.
Marco:
The reality is, like, when you... We've covered this before, so I won't go into it in too much detail, but just, like...
Marco:
So many products now try to boast the ability to fill a space or fill a room with sound from a single broadcast point, from one speaker in the middle, and to fill an area with sound.
Marco:
And just the physics are so against you for that.
Marco:
There are small tricks you can pull that make it sound a little bit better, but not...
Marco:
very good and nowhere near as good as it sounds from two regular speakers spaced apart so that they form an actual like stereo separation the physics are just totally against you for any any kind of like simulated thing from one point and and i would in general like two mediocre speakers that are actually put in proper locations are way better than one of this the best speaker in the world stuck in the middle
Casey:
I do use this from time to time.
Casey:
I used to use it...
Casey:
more often i feel in a professional setting because a lot of times i would send an email to myself that i wanted copied to a bunch of people but i didn't want the whole chain email chain going on forever uh occasionally i'll use this if i want aaron to be aware of something like often like child or house related but they don't but aaron doesn't necessarily need to be officially cc'd on the email just it's more of like a hey fyi this is something that happened
Casey:
I definitely use it from time to time.
Casey:
I wouldn't say I use it terribly often, though.
Casey:
John, what's your status on BCCing people?
John:
I mean, I'm surprised that people don't use it more because it is exactly the right tool for one specific job, which is you want to email a bunch of people and you don't want to be vulnerable to the dreaded reply all.
John:
right so anytime this happens more at work i suppose but even if you're just like planning a family outing and you know pre-covid times whatever you know or in the future when you're all vaccinated who knows um if you have to mail email a bunch of people it's there's always gonna once the group gets big enough there's always gonna be one person that does reply all and then we're off to the races right and now a bunch of people got emails they're not interested in and it's just like depending on how it goes down whether it's family or friends or co-workers it can resolve itself in all the different ways but it's always annoying right so
John:
So BCC is the solution to that.
John:
It's basically telling your email client, here's a list of people.
John:
Send each one of these people their own separate email.
John:
And then in that email, don't list any of the other people that I sent it to because they don't need to know that.
John:
So if they reply, it will just come back to you, the sender, and won't annoy any of the other people.
John:
And that's what BCC...
John:
I don't know if that's what it's for, but that's what it should be used for in in all cases.
John:
I know it's weird, especially when you with how email clients handle this.
John:
And especially if people who like put themselves in the two line and everyone else in the BCC line, you can end up with getting emails that you don't quite understand how or why you got it.
John:
But if you look at the headers, you can usually figure it out.
John:
But it's kind of it's not for you.
John:
It's for the sender to be spared the dreaded reply all.
Marco:
Well, but it could be for you in the sense that if you're in a situation where it's kind of an informal mailing list, where you're not being mailed by an actual big mailer, some big mailing list service, but maybe the teacher of your kid's school has a mailing list of the 20 parents in the room or whatever.
Marco:
It's useful when...
Marco:
in that context when somebody wants to send out a you know a semi-formal mailing list to a bunch of people without revealing to them everyone else's email address like and so it's very useful for that in these kind of like you know informal mailing list notification or situations yeah yeah that's exactly what i've said when you that's the you don't want it where you don't want it's not just the reply all whether it's like it looks like it was just an email sent to you so you don't even know who else they sent it to
Marco:
Right.
Marco:
Yeah, that's the thing where it's like, so you are protecting the email addresses and identities of everyone else who got the email.
Marco:
There's also, there's a couple other things people do, like the whole like introducing people to things and then moving them to the BCC on the reply.
Marco:
Like there's little conventions people have come up with.
Marco:
So it's used.
Marco:
There are totally very useful and very common uses for it.
Marco:
But I think the informal mailing list or kind of like the ad hoc mailing list is the best use case for it.
John:
Although your example is unfortunately the exact opposite of what actually happens.
John:
Anytime the school mails things, they will never use BC.
John:
They will always use to the to line or the CC line and both of which will reveal everyone's email address to everyone else.
John:
And it's just a thing we have to live with because that's sometimes how things goes down at schools.
Marco:
One of the many dysfunctions of email.
Casey:
Indeed.
Casey:
Abel DeMose writes, with the recent announcement of the ARM v9 architecture, how long will it be before we see Apple use this architecture in chips?
John:
So I bet most people don't know or care what version of the ARM instruction set Apple has used in its various processors, but there are different versions and Apple has used a bunch of different ones.
John:
If you've been a developer for iOS devices for a long time, you're probably familiar with the architecture choices that you've had in various pop-up menus in Xcode or whatever.
John:
I think the 64-bit transition was essentially ARMv8.
John:
To this day, Apple uses a variant of ARM version 8, which they call ARM64 in most of their command line tools and everything.
John:
ARMv9 is a new version of one of those.
John:
And the reason I think this is interesting is...
John:
there is still kind of an open question um about where apple is going to go with its instruction sets uh like who bought arm did nvidia buy arm i think so yeah anyway uh it doesn't really matter apple's got an architecture license they can continue to make arm chips or whatever but uh give and apple certainly has influence in the arm instruction sets and has had influence in the arm instruction yet sets but
John:
Apple's, it is potentially true that Apple's influence on the ARM instruction set has now diminished now that their good friend NVIDIA owns them, right?
John:
Apple doesn't call its Macs ARM Macs.
John:
I keep calling them that, right?
John:
But it calls them Apple Silicon Macs.
John:
That opens the door for Apple at any time to say, hey, the next round of Apple Silicon Macs,
John:
use the next round of apple chips and do does anyone know or care whether they're compatible with arm v10 arm v11 arm v12 arm it's not relevant to a mac user because the entire ecosystem is a compiler tool chain development platform that targets apple silicon right and it's not like apple would make things a new set of apple silicon max incompatible with the existing ones they would be backer compatible the same way arm v9
John:
is backward compatible and can run binaries in arm v8 and arm v7 or whatever you know like it's not like they would have to break any kind of compatibility because they're not arm chips they're apple silicon chips right so i think apple will use arm v9 probably just because it's been in the pipeline for a while and apple had influence on it and it's the next logical step for its next line of chips but the real question is how long does this go on um or does apple start going its own way
John:
Because from the outside, only tech nerds know that Apple already hasn't gone its own way.
John:
Oh, don't they make their own chips?
John:
What do you mean they're ARM chips?
John:
No, they're Apple Silicon, right?
John:
I think that door is open to Apple whenever it wants.
John:
And I think the only thing that would drive it to wanting to do that is...
John:
if it desires control that it doesn't currently have over the direction of the ARM architecture, right?
John:
So I think Apple had plenty of influence on ARM v9, but stay tuned in the next, I don't know what the cadence of these things is, in the next year or two or three to see if Apple starts branching off.
John:
And I feel like the only way we would know is reading between the lines of some Apple presentation about one of their new processors.
John:
And then after everyone gets them and realizes, hey, wait a second, this is technically not exactly the same as ARM v10 or 11.
John:
It's some Apple thing.
Marco:
Do you think that might hurt them in the future if they diverge or if they just stop accepting updates from the ARM architecture stuff?
Marco:
Do you think in the future that might hurt them in the sense that software that's made to build on Linux ARM servers would now need even more special handling for building in an Apple environment?
John:
i mean there was another item that i was actually going to put in a follow-up or whatever but parallels now runs uh windows the the arm version of windows in virtualization on our max right so you can actually you can actually run you know because there is an arm version of windows and apparently parallels did whatever did combined with microsoft did what it took to make that happen right wait do is there anyone who wants to run arm windows it's a separate question but yeah like is it like can you do anything useful and does any software run on that that you'd actually want
John:
i mean that's that's the question that i feel like apple would be grappling with in terms of breaking compatibility because there's no reason that apple a new apple silicon chip that technically is an arm v10 it might run all arm software perfectly right because it's you know it's just they added like one or two new instructions that only apple stuff adds you know whatever like there are many ways that apple can diverge while still maintaining compatibility witness amd versus intel at various times they've had you know what uh
John:
well i don't know if they ever had different simd stuff but like there are lots of different things about intel and amd chips but in general they're both x86 or x86 64 compatible right so there's some there's some leeway there but what really matters is what out you know what you just said marco what is it that's out there that's worth being compatible with in the arm world right we still don't know if
John:
arm will just sweep through the entire industry and like all pcs will be arm and all server chips will be arm in that case it's it's really advantageous to sort of stay on the arm train even if you're kind of off doing your own thing just to say oh we are arm compatible because you want to be in that ecosystem because it is an ecosystem but as things stand now windows is x86 the server is still mostly x86 with arm trying to make inroads there microsoft is trying to put windows on arm but it's not setting the world on fire and so it's an open question
John:
Is there anything ARM-related that is worthwhile for Apple specifically to stay compatible with?
John:
So I think this is a, you know, Apple should wait and see because it's not clear which direction this is going.
John:
In three to five years, it should be clear what ARM has been able to carve out for itself versus what x86 has been able to defend.
Marco:
Thanks to our sponsors this week, Mack Weldon, Linode, and Alex Weinstein Music.
Marco:
And thanks to our members who support us directly.
Marco:
You too can join them at atp.fm slash join.
Marco:
And we will talk to you next week.
Marco:
Now the show is over.
Marco:
They didn't even mean to begin.
Marco:
Cause it was accidental.
Marco:
Oh, it was accidental.
John:
John didn't do any research.
John:
Marco and Casey wouldn't let him.
John:
Cause it was accidental.
John:
Oh, it was accidental.
John:
And you can find the show notes at ATP.FM.
John:
And if you're into Twitter,
Marco:
You can follow them at C-A-S-E-Y-L-I-S-S So that's Casey Liss M-A-R-C-O-A-R-M-E-N-T Marco Arment S-I-R-A-C-U-S-A Syracuse It's accidental They didn't mean to Accidental Tech Podcast So long
Casey:
What did you end up doing about you decided you are or not going to repair your Tesla for hilarious amounts of money?
Marco:
It is currently being negotiated between the body shop and my insurance company.
Marco:
So I don't know.
Marco:
They haven't begun the work yet because they can't agree on what the work should be and what it should cost.
Marco:
So we'll see.
Marco:
I have nothing to report yet on that front.
John:
All right.
John:
This is going to be the most anticlimactic repair because it's going to – you're going to get back a car that looks almost exactly like the car that you got with some minor scratches gone.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
The amount of effort and time and somebody's money, whether it's mine or theirs, that's going to go into repairing like three scratches.
Marco:
But it makes me crazy.
Marco:
But –
Marco:
They're really big scratches.
Marco:
And if I turn the car in at the end of the lease, they're going to charge me big money for those because it is significant damage, even though it looks very small.
Marco:
So, you know, I do have to get it fixed if I want to protect my future money.
Marco:
And right now, insurance will possibly maybe cover possibly some or all of it.
Marco:
So we're getting there.
John:
yeah i think i think it'll probably work out and i think it's smart to make insurance pay for it because you know so it's a clear it's a clear situation car hit when parked right just get done and let them argue amongst themselves that you know because here's the thing no matter how they do it it will be fine probably like it's not it's not an important mechanical part there's not any kind of safety concern it's purely cosmetic to resolve the cosmetic issue in any kind of reasonable way which is eminently possible it'll be fine yeah
Marco:
And I'm not a big picky car person.
Marco:
If they paint it in a certain way that's subpar to car nerds, I wouldn't even notice.
Marco:
Whatever fix they do... As it sits there in the parking lot.
Marco:
Yeah.
Marco:
As long as it's enough to pass lease turn inspection, I don't care how they do it.
Marco:
I couldn't care less.
Marco:
I decided...
Marco:
Years ago, I decided that I'm no longer going to even bother trying to treat my cars incredibly preciously.
Marco:
Like, my cars are tools for me.
Marco:
And if it gets a little scuff here and there, I don't really care.
Marco:
As long as it's not going to, like, cause problems for me in some way.
Marco:
You know, I go through automatic car washes now.
Marco:
You know, I just don't care.
Casey:
Do you not remember the time that you came to visit me in the M5 and I had to somewhat teach you how to wash your own car?
Casey:
How quickly we forget.
Marco:
Oh, I didn't forget.
Marco:
I just chose not to do it.
Marco:
It turns out washing your own car is a very tedious and time-consuming thing for which I don't get the appropriate level of corresponding enjoyment or satisfaction to make it worth it.
Casey:
Oh, gosh.
Marco:
I'm just giving Casey nightmares about swirl marks.
Casey:
Yeah.
Casey:
You know, actually you say that I, I like having a clean car, but I actually am closer to Marco than I'm giving myself credit for in that, you know, if there is, I don't want to say damage, but like things like a swirl mark,
Casey:
It happens.
Casey:
Like, whatever.
Casey:
It is what it is.
Casey:
And as I get older, coincidentally, as I have more money with which to keep my cars perfect, I realize that cars will never be perfect and there's nothing you can do.
Casey:
So, for example, I don't remember if I talked about it on the show, but early on in quarantine, Declan dragged his bike against the front of my car.
Casey:
And so there's a gouge in the—well, not a gouge.
Casey:
That's probably dramatic.
Casey:
But there's a scratch—
Casey:
a scratch you can feel like that you can definitely feel in my front bumper and it's been like that probably almost a year now and I'd like to get it fixed at some point but you know what it is what it is it bothers me but not so much that I'm running to a body shop to get it repaired
Casey:
And I like, I very, very much like my cars being clean, which is yet another reason why the season of pollen, all the things is, is just awful for me because not only does it make me have the sniffles, not only does pollen jump under my hard contact lenses and feel like pins are stabbing me in the eye, but my cars are only ever clean for five minutes at a time.
Casey:
And that drives me bananas.
Casey:
But nevertheless, I treat them preciously in the sense that I like them to be clean.
Casey:
I like their tires to be shiny.
Casey:
I like their wheels to be as brake dust free as they can get.
Casey:
But if there are imperfections, there are imperfections.
Casey:
And, you know, that's the way it's going to have to be.
Marco:
I hate to tell you how long it's been since I've washed my car, but we moved to the beach last May.
Marco:
And since then, because I know that I'm always a short time away from just driving back to the beach and parking it in that parking lot for a month or whatever...
Marco:
i never think it's worth washing it because like what am i gonna like i'm not gonna wash it and then go leave it in a parking lot to get rained on for you know two weeks that's stupid so i just haven't gotten a car wash in well over a year i mean because because you know before that was a few months of quarantine like i'm not i'm not gonna go out and get a car wash during that time uh and so it's pro i probably haven't gotten a car wash since at least like fall of 2019 um
Casey:
Oh, my God.
Casey:
Oh, my God.
Marco:
Oh, my God.
Marco:
I think I probably have you beat.
Casey:
Oh, God.
Casey:
How can you complain about your car getting nicked or curb rash or anything like that when you never wash it?
Marco:
When you turn in a lease, they don't charge you for never washing it.
Casey:
No, no, no.
Casey:
I was more talking to John because I know that you're a lost cause.
Casey:
I'm never turning my car in.
John:
No, I know you're not turning your car in, but I thought... I mean, I did get that body work done to fix all the bad scratches and everything and then put a bunch of new scratches back on it.
John:
But yeah, I just... I should do it.
John:
I used to do it like once a year, but then it started to fall off.
John:
But anyway... Oh God, you too.
John:
We're killing it, John.
Casey:
We're killing it.
Casey:
I know, I know.
John:
If I led a life of luxury, I'd probably clean my car more, but I have higher priorities.
Casey:
yeah like destiny oh come on yes absolutely that is that is a higher priority than car washing lots of things are higher priority than car washing to me to to each their own oh to each their own but but boo this man i mean really since my car is parked in a parking lot most of the time now isn't the rain just slowly washing it for me no i don't think that's how rain works oh my god