Ep. 15: "Covered in Sauce"
Merlin: Hello.
Merlin: Hi, John.
Merlin: How are you?
Merlin: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: How's every little thing?
John: Oh, well, that's it.
John: You just described it.
John: It's just a bunch of little things.
John: It's all little things now.
John: Yeah, I don't have any big things left.
Merlin: I can't believe that you said those words.
Merlin: Because I just wrote some things down on a card, and I'm not going to tell you any of them.
Merlin: Because they're all little things, and they either sound like an 80s comic or Irma Bombeck.
Merlin: You do remind me of Irma Bombeck.
Merlin: Yeah, with the cancer.
Merlin: In a positive way.
Merlin: The only one's funny is... No, no.
Merlin: She passed, I think.
Merlin: But the...
Merlin: I try not to prepare for anything too much.
Merlin: I've learned in life, as you know, John, that just listening to the other person is really how I learn.
John: Just saying yes.
John: You just say yes.
John: You never say no.
John: You were about to say no, weren't you?
Merlin: Little things.
Merlin: Little things.
Merlin: Yeah, no, I hate all of these.
Merlin: I don't know if you saw, but I put a photo on the internet earlier today of my archive of our cards.
Merlin: Have I shown you this?
John: No, God, I love this.
Merlin: I'll send you the link.
Merlin: I think I did a quick count.
Merlin: I did that thing where you take half and then half of that, you know, you can multiply.
John: Or if you take a three by five card and you fold it in half and you fold it in half again and then you fold it in half again.
Mm-hmm.
John: What is that called?
John: And then you fold it in half again.
Merlin: Hmm, I'll write that down.
Merlin: Is that called card folding seven ways?
Merlin: You can't do it more than seven times, right?
Merlin: Yeah, there's only so many times you can fold it before you... I heard the Mythbusters guys did that, but they put a can through somebody's house when they did it.
Merlin: Card folding.
John: They threw a bowling ball through somebody's... Did you hear about that?
John: Did you hear about that?
John: Who didn't hear about that?
John: Yeah.
John: It was, I mean...
John: Probably there were three or four wars going on around the world.
John: Like little people were being burned alive with flamethrowers in their huts.
John: But I heard about the Mythbusters bowling ball all day that day.
John: Was it a bowling ball?
John: It was a cannonball, right?
John: I don't know.
John: Did it happen in Ireland?
John: Where did it happen?
John: I thought it happened in San Francisco, where all things happen.
John: No, I don't think he shits where he eats.
John: They were in Ireland, do you think?
John: Oh, you're just saying that because he has red hair.
John: No.
John: You're like, oh, it was in Ireland.
Merlin: No, R2-D2.
Merlin: Funny thing, I don't know why, when I first heard that story, for some reason I thought it was somewhere in like a green and loamy part of the UK.
Merlin: But I don't think it was.
Merlin: It was like Michigan?
Merlin: Where did it happen?
John: Well, Michigan is the Ireland of the upper Midwest.
Merlin: Yeah, it's like Warren Zevon used to say.
Merlin: He sure did.
Merlin: He passed also.
Merlin: He definitely passed.
Merlin: He loved those sandwiches.
John: Now you've got me saying he passed.
John: He died.
John: He died.
John: He didn't pass.
John: He died.
John: And so did Irma Bombeck.
John: But Irma Bombeck died from being old.
John: If she had cancer, it was just the cancer of being old.
John: I think she had the breast cancer.
John: She was like 80,000 years old.
John: I disagree.
Merlin: I would be surprised if she was... You think Irma Bombeck died prematurely?
Merlin: I mean, doesn't everybody die prematurely, John?
John: I guess.
Merlin: Give me a couple people who didn't die prematurely.
John: If you read Heinlein and think that we should all be living in cyrogenic prolongation.
John: Have you been sleeping?
John: I have not been sleeping.
John: I have not slept very much.
John: You say it Heinlein or Heinlein?
John: Well, see, now I'm going to get run up the geek flagpole because I say Heinlein, but maybe it's Heinlein.
John: Then what's the thing?
John: What's the train in New York?
John: That's the Heinlein.
John: Okay.
John: Sounds a little bit ping pong.
John: You got a little speech impediment.
John: And if you put your hand up in the air and someone else hits it, it's a high five.
Merlin: Heinlein.
John: Uh-huh.
Merlin: Heinlein.
Merlin: Little things.
Merlin: Little things.
Merlin: Boys are all terrible.
Merlin: None of these make any sense at all.
Merlin: Irma Bombeck.
Merlin: Irma Bombeck.
Merlin: I don't know where you Google this, but my sense is that she was probably... Where would you Google it?
Merlin: My sense is that she was probably 67, 62, or 80.
John: She was 69.
John: 69.
Merlin: High five, am I right?
Merlin: 420.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: The grass is always greener over the 80-year-old woman.
John: Actually, whoa.
John: It's four.
John: We've been talking for four minutes and 20 seconds just as I said that.
Merlin: Hang on, dude.
Merlin: The hottest.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I have not had enough coffee.
Merlin: I do not miss marijuana.
Hmm.
Merlin: I was going to ask you about tuning guitars.
John: That's a heavy statement.
John: You don't miss marijuana.
John: Not a lick.
John: Because of all the things... Well, that's not true.
John: There are a lot of things I miss.
John: No, go ahead.
John: Judge me.
John: It's funny.
Merlin: I can feel it coming.
John: No, it's not a judgment, but marijuana sometimes makes sense.
John: For instance, if you...
John: want to marijuana sometimes makes sense if you want to sit in the bathtub and masturbate all day marijuana is in the bathtub master not anymore i haven't in years but was there water in it
John: Back in the old, just go sit in the bathtub in your clothes and masturbate because you don't want to get it on anything.
Merlin: I think you're assuming I'm not a lawyer, as you know, John.
Merlin: I think you're assuming a lot of things not in evidence when you talk about being high and masturbating in a bathtub.
Merlin: There's a lot of ways that could go.
Merlin: Listen, you might not know you're in the bathtub or masturbating.
John: Particularly when you don't have a lot of resources and you're sharing a living arrangement with other people or maybe you're crashing.
John: Gable's been turned off.
John: And there are times when you need to masturbate.
John: It's an important physical thing you need to do.
John: And there just aren't that many places you can get away.
John: Maybe you don't have your own bedroom.
John: Maybe you're sleeping on their couch and then they're all standing around.
Merlin: I think that's why bathrooms became popular.
Merlin: Let's be honest.
Merlin: You ask any man, I've seen you urinate in some really exotic places and really, more disturbingly, in some very mundane places.
John: There's no mundane place to urinate when you really have to go.
John: Every one of them is the Taj Mahal of urination.
Merlin: Each one is like a little fucking magic kingdom.
Merlin: And so no guy sitting around going, ooh, I need to close the door to go blast a Tinky.
Merlin: And I think as you get older, you get more comfortable.
Merlin: You could drop a deuce anywhere.
Merlin: But I think you want a little bit of privacy because that dander, that's not something you want people to have to share, the dander.
John: And so you're high.
John: You don't want to sit on the toilet and masturbate like some kind of animal.
John: I would rather do that.
Merlin: I'm sorry, John.
Merlin: I don't want to interrupt you.
Merlin: I would rather do that than be in the bathtub.
Merlin: I don't understand masturbating.
Merlin: Like underwater?
Thank you.
John: Well, not completely underwater.
John: See, that's the thing.
John: This is the thing.
John: When you're a young guy, you think, oh, sex underwater is going to be amazing.
John: The worst.
John: Because it has everything that you want.
John: You're underwater.
John: The girl with the pool.
John: Her parents are out of town.
John: This is going to be awesome.
John: And you feel lightweight.
John: You're bouncing around like you're on the surface of the moon.
John: You're in the swimming pool.
John: But having sex underwater, as everyone who's done it knows, is terrible.
John: That's not how it's meant to be done.
John: We've evolved...
John: from being fish or turtles, and now we have sex on land.
John: They're fucking corduroy.
John: But if you are high and you're sitting in somebody else's bathtub eating some grilled cheese sandwiches that you may or may not have made, it is a fantastic place to masturbate.
John: You just don't fill the tub all the way up with water.
John: It's a half tub of water.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: You're eating grilled cheese and masturbating in half a tub of water.
John: This was a long time ago, and I was very high.
John: That's a good thing.
Merlin: It might have been a safety precaution.
Merlin: You might have said to yourself, before I even smoke this, I'm going to draw a line in the tub.
Merlin: The water must go no higher than this.
John: That's right.
John: That's right.
John: That's right.
John: And there should be a bath mat.
John: I should have everything I need here.
Merlin: This is a family program, but I'm resisting asking you a lot of questions.
John: Yeah.
John: Well, don't censor yourself.
John: You know, if there's something you want to know, then just ask.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: It's weird.
Merlin: You know how they say the drunk people shouldn't drive because their judgment is impaired?
John: Oh, is that something you say?
John: Is that one of your catchphrases?
Merlin: I'm Merlin Mann, and drunk people shouldn't drive.
Merlin: It is said.
Merlin: I think I saw that in Look Magazine.
Merlin: I don't remember.
Merlin: I was just thinking the other day about how stupid high people are.
Merlin: And in the same way that I think the drunk people probably shouldn't decide whether they're going to drive, the high people just have a lot of confidence about the possibilities in the world, which is really stupid.
Merlin: I mean, I guess that's good, whatever.
Merlin: Something we talked about in the first or second visit that I still want to get back to is the extent to which drugs really have permanently fucked us up.
Merlin: Something I used to believe was a myth
Merlin: And I increasingly think are maybe a very distinct possibility.
Merlin: So I just want to say, I think, you know, you know, if I ever become president, pot will be legal and we'll free the dragons.
Merlin: It's like, OK, great.
Merlin: You know, I'm glad we have an electoral system where you can release the dragons or whatever.
John: I think the thing about marijuana, of all other drugs, is it absolutely interferes with your sense of the causality of things.
John: Like, you lose your capacity to think in a linear fashion.
John: And that's why the myth of pot being a mellow drug is so insidious.
John: Because it isn't mellow.
John: The most stressed out people I ever met are pot...
John: are pot stoners.
John: And the reason that they're stressed out is that they can't remember how they got here.
John: You know, they can't remember the series of things that they did to arrive at their current situation.
John: And they cannot fathom what series of things they can do to, to, to move on.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: That's a really good way to put it.
Merlin: I was going to ask if you meant causality, past or future, but it's both.
Merlin: It's not, it's not only, I don't understand why I'm sitting in a car.
Merlin: It could really also be like, why can't a goat be in the Congress?
John: Yeah.
John: Everything, when you're stoned, everything becomes atomized.
John: And everything looks like a discreet little moment.
John: And so you're like, whoa, dude, did you see that flower?
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: You see the phones, but there's no cords plugged into any of them.
Merlin: Exactly.
John: And so stoners are these people.
John: They're like, I'm so mellow.
John: I'm so mellow.
John: Dude, why the fuck?
John: What the dude?
John: Come on, man.
John: And then they lose their shit.
Merlin: I hate being that high so much.
Merlin: And I think that's one reason I don't do it.
Merlin: It's not fun for me.
Merlin: It hurts my immune system.
Merlin: It makes me paranoid.
Merlin: But I really hate being that high.
John: People in the entertainment business that smoke a lot of pot, the worst combination are... Because if you're a roadie and you smoke a lot of pot, that's fine.
John: You don't really need... Nobody's asking you to do the big picture, right?
John: You move the amps on stage, you hook them up.
John: It's the same every night.
John: You can mechanize that process.
John: But when your road manager is a stoner...
John: when people who are running clubs are stoners, that's where, like, money goes missing.
John: That's where it's like, oh, we got to cancel the show because, oh, I think I saw some snow.
John: You know, they lose...
Merlin: Well, the road manager is – is there anybody in the world that has to have more access to what you might call multitasking?
Merlin: I don't love that word.
Merlin: But for somebody who's able to think not simply linearly, right?
Merlin: Certainly there has to be somebody who knows which order the states go in, right?
Merlin: Like that's – like we're going to be in this state before we're in that state and that's good to know.
Merlin: Not confusing Saturday with the other Saturday.
John: Road managers.
John: Well, see, that's like just – I mean that is more difficult than it sounds.
Merlin: But like if you've got a flat knowing within seconds which three people to call in which order.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: That's the kind of thing.
Merlin: High or not, I'm not fast at that, and some people are.
Merlin: They know exactly, and they're already doing it, right?
John: But those are skills that even an interstate truck driver can master.
John: Right.
John: Not to cast aspersions on anyone who is driving an interstate truck, because I think some of that work is God's work.
John: You're still scared of the Teamsters, aren't you?
John: But, you know, have you ever driven across America in the middle of the night?
John: And I've done the entire trip in the middle of one night.
John: There are a lot of trucks out there.
John: All without ephedrine.
John: But speaking of ephedrine, write that down on a note card.
Merlin: I'd like to get back to ephedrine.
Merlin: I'm madder than ever about Californian drugs.
John: The thing about road managers is, or people in the entertainment business that have to master some technical aspect or a lot of technical aspects, but also deal with...
John: with artists and personalities so it's not enough that they have to know the order that the states are in but they also have to tend to some weeping little rock star that whose playstation 3 can't boot up or whatever and and to those are such separate skill sets
John: to be good at both things.
John: And I think there are a lot of people in Hollywood who have this job too, where they have to minister to these, you know, these flamboyant and completely untethered personalities.
Merlin: Do you really think that's real?
Merlin: You think that's real?
John: You know how electricity works?
John: Oh my God, are absolutely real.
John: Anybody who got famous before the age of 27,
John: I don't think can have possibly have amassed the life skills, the skill set necessary to not be a total horse's ass for the rest of their life.
John: You know, like if you've, if you got famous before you were 27 and you have managed to be a decent person, you are an anomaly because I,
Merlin: No, I totally agree with you.
Merlin: And it's why, I mean, there's so many things that I've wished for that I'm glad I never got.
John: Right.
John: Being born rich.
Merlin: Well, it would be nice.
Merlin: This is the nice thing about being 45 is this is the perfect age to find out that your family is actually extremely rich.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Sing it, sister.
Merlin: No, I think about like, okay, it sounds like you were wired pretty well.
Merlin: You had your orange pants, you had your encyclopedia.
Merlin: But, you know, I think about myself and like how much of an emotional child I am even today.
Merlin: And can you imagine suddenly like the Ford agency or whatever gets you a gig and you're on some Disney show suddenly or whatever?
Merlin: I know it's not exactly that simple, but there are certainly stories.
Merlin: I imagine there are people, you know, just showed up on Saved by the Bell pretty quickly.
Merlin: Or whatever.
Merlin: But all of a sudden at this age, anytime after like three and before 27, like if you suddenly are surrounded by people telling you that you are great and everything is great and giving you just probably terrible advice –
Merlin: You know, don't get me started on the whole idea of agency in general.
Merlin: But you're surrounded by people who literally, it's like, you know, and loco parentis.
Merlin: There are people making decisions about your life around you.
John: Right.
John: Well, that is before you're old enough to appreciate.
John: I think part of getting older is realizing that greatness, like tremendous creativity, artistic talent, beauty, ability, greatness in all its forms is still...
John: not worth that much in the grand scheme of things.
John: There are so many people in the world that even your greatness is just a hill of beans.
John: And I think if you are told that you're great at a young age, your natural inclination as a person is to think that greatness transcends somehow.
John: Because we all have this belief that
John: that we're going to arrive at a certain age and it's going to be coasting from then on, right?
John: Like you're going to get to a certain point and then it's coasting.
Merlin: If I can just turn 14, it'll all be downhill.
John: That's exactly right.
John: Oh my God.
John: And I still fall for it.
John: I'm 43 now.
John: And it's like, oh boy, well, but hope by the time I'm 46.
Merlin: Really, you feel like you fall for that because I feel like you counsel people consistently and trying to help people that you counsel them often.
Merlin: Half a dozen times we discussed that there is no arrival.
Merlin: There is no coronation.
Merlin: Nobody's going to make you Lord of the Indie Rock.
John: In your own mind, I mean, in my own mind, there is still some room in the very center of the house where you open the door and there's a red light bulb in the room, first of all.
John: And there's a little boy sitting Indian style playing with a combination of...
John: the Guns of Navarone play set and some Legos and some Hot Wheels.
John: And you look at him and you go, what do you got?
John: And he says, well, I hope by the time I'm 45, I don't have to
John: I have fantasies about imaginary children.
John: I don't have to deal with any of this shit anymore.
John: I just don't want to deal with any of this shit anymore.
John: And of course, that moment never arrives.
John: But if you're told that you are fantastic and that greatness matters and that your particular greatness is unique...
John: then I have to say every new day, every new frustration has to be a double slap in the face to you.
John: Like, why do I have to deal with this shit?
John: Don't you realize?
John: Well, it's like the antibacterial soap.
Merlin: I'm trying to get off the antibacterial soap because I think all I'm doing... You ever not finish penicillin, right?
Merlin: You ever not finish your antibiotics?
Merlin: That's like taking... You know what?
Merlin: I'm going to capture that.
Merlin: That's good for you.
Merlin: You take the V-Cyllin?
John: No, I don't take any Cyllin.
Merlin: Good for you.
Merlin: Good for you.
Merlin: And that's probably why you're such a bacterial viral mess.
John: When I get sick, I go sit out in the rain.
John: And I say, all right, virus, it's you or me.
John: All right, first of all, it's not a virus because you can't kill those with penicillin.
John: I say, all right, bacteria, you think you're tough?
John: How do you like this cold rain?
Merlin: This is what all the great men have done.
Merlin: Voltaire sat in the rain.
Merlin: Mussolini, rain.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Ill Rain, they call it.
Merlin: So Mussolini's in your list of all the great men.
Merlin: I have a lot of cards, John.
Merlin: All the great men.
Merlin: Mussolini and Pol Pot.
Merlin: He's that in the rain.
Merlin: He's a snappy dresser.
Merlin: Okay, now listen.
Merlin: I agree with you.
Merlin: Except to say that I think the false greatness is an important but somewhat tertiary point.
Merlin: I mean, yes, absolutely.
Merlin: But the thing is, that's true for anybody who's got a fucking BMW before they've had a job.
Merlin: I mean, I'm sorry to sound envious, but I'm not even envious.
Merlin: I'm really actually jealous of those people.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Sure.
Merlin: Okay?
Merlin: It's a fine distinction, you know, unless you're a dick tard, like all those guys with the fucking BMWs.
Merlin: Screw those guys.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: We have a black German car.
Merlin: We have a black German car that is 16 years old.
Merlin: Wait a minute.
John: Yeah, your black German car is one of those tiny little things that fits in a San Francisco garage.
Merlin: You know, what's funny is the car that we have was...
Merlin: Probably the somewhat, I don't want to say official, but it was like the official car of the guy who never made any money in the dot-com revolution.
Merlin: Everybody had a late 90s Jetta.
Merlin: Like, it was just black Jetta.
Merlin: It's what you had.
Merlin: But I like to hope that I'm not a total douche.
Merlin: I'm constantly astounded by how many complete dicks drive BMWs.
Merlin: Let's save that for a whole car episode.
John: Well, the thing is that the BMW drivers are missing out on the Farfug Nugent.
John: Yes.
John: Which is the joy of driving.
Merlin: Yeah, no, no, it's absolutely true.
Merlin: There's, you know, there's a lot of stuff like that.
Merlin: Did you ever see the Xfinity from Comcast?
Merlin: Did you get the Comcast up there?
Merlin: Oh, sure we do.
Merlin: Well, Comcast, you see Big Trucks, it says Xfinity.
Merlin: Oh, I hate those guys.
Merlin: John, you know, as we speak right now, I have two different accounts with Comcast.
Merlin: This is a show I could not have done with you two years ago because I didn't have Xfinity yet.
Merlin: I can't even tell you how, the fact that I now have exactly the same fucking coaxial cable coming into my house, but now it's called Xfinity.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: It's changed everything.
John: You understand?
Merlin: It's copper.
Merlin: It's branded copper.
John: I think I have Xfinity, too.
John: But how do you tell if you have Xfinity?
John: What is Xfinity?
Merlin: Do you consider yourself to generally be a happy and well-adjusted person?
John: No.
John: Fuck you.
Merlin: You don't have Xfinity, asshole.
Merlin: Damn it!
Merlin: I think I do have Xfinity.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: Your Farfak Nugent is loading too slowly.
John: I get things in the mail all the time that say Xfinity.
Merlin: I get it constantly.
John: I throw them in the garbage.
John: Are some of those important?
John: You fucked up.
John: Can I ask you another question?
Merlin: When's the last time you felt deep down in your gut, you're laying there trying to sleep, the aliens are knocking, when's the last time you felt a really profound sense of hospitaliano?
John: What if I... The last time I felt a profound sense... Hospitaliano!
Merlin: Hospitaliano!
Merlin: Deep in your heart, you felt that combination of hospitality and Italian food.
John: Hospitaliano?
John: You've never been to an Olive Garden?
Merlin: No.
John: Well, no, that's not true.
Merlin: I have been to an Olive Garden.
Merlin: Like Dr. Seuss books, it ends with an unnecessary exclamation mark.
Merlin: I'm not going to demonstrate it.
John: I've been to an Olive Garden and I've also been to, what's the other one?
John: The one with the, oh, a Cheesecake Factory.
John: I've been to both of those books.
Merlin: Oh, the Texas Cheesecake Depository.
Merlin: That is a farcical restaurant.
Merlin: That and the, what's the one, Load Jammers?
Merlin: What's it called?
Merlin: What's the one?
Merlin: Claim Jumpers.
John: I've never been to a Claim Jumpers, but I went to those places and I went to an Outback Steakhouse because I do not want to be living.
Merlin: Oh, I love an Outback Steakhouse.
John: This is the same reason that I started going on 4chan.
John: I don't want to be living in a world where I don't understand what people are talking about.
Merlin: Okay, John, I'm going to write down one word here, two words.
Merlin: I'm going to write down our mall, and I'd like you to ask me about it later.
Merlin: I'm going to put it aside.
John: I want to
John: They put a cheesecake factory in the center of downtown Seattle.
John: It's an abortion.
John: It's a fucking abortion.
John: There was a line, seriously, a line that went around the block for weeks at a time.
John: And I was like, this place must have the most fantastic cheesecake in the world.
Merlin: You know why?
Merlin: Because the catchphrase for the place should be...
Merlin: $23 to show the world why they're right.
Merlin: You go in there and it's a bunch of fucking selfish, insane, diabetic, fat ass, no offense, fat ass Americans sitting down.
Merlin: Tough talk.
Merlin: We'll be back in a minute.
Merlin: Eating giant, giant, giant portions of really, really unhealthy food.
John: It was the first time I ever saw a Bloomin' Onion, which I don't think they – Oh, that's a lot of added value.
John: I think that's a copyrighted phrase.
John: I don't think they can call it.
Merlin: Oh, no, it absolutely is.
Merlin: Well, you can go.
Merlin: There's a Wikipedia entry on this.
Merlin: Did we talk about this?
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
John: You talked about it.
John: This is the first Bloomin' Onion conversation I've ever had.
Merlin: Oh, we talked about this.
Merlin: It's all about value-added service.
Merlin: Oh, sure.
Merlin: You see all onion and no bloom.
Merlin: You don't understand that all the value is in the bloom.
Merlin: The tequila snooters and the jalapeno poppers.
Merlin: Halapeno poppers.
Merlin: I'm going to write this down real quick.
Merlin: Hospitaliano, because I want to finish my thought here.
John: But hospitaliano is a trademark phrase employed by the Olive Garden to make you feel like you're having an exotic... Yeah, you'd have to go to AltaVista or Excite to look that up.
Merlin: If he's still on, I'm getting rid of it because you're not taking it.
Merlin: Okay, so here's my thing.
Merlin: Hospitaliano and our mall.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: Do you have a mall?
Merlin: Oh, I got to tell you about this mall, buddy.
Merlin: A new mall.
Merlin: Oh, God.
Merlin: I was madder than an onanist in a bathtub this week.
Merlin: I got to tell you about it.
John: I'm thinking of the entire Sunset area of San Francisco, which is a very large part of the city.
John: I can't think of a single mall in it.
Merlin: I think it was your, goddammit, NIMBY and Maul.
Merlin: Was it not the PNW probably where NIMBY was invented?
John: It's a very popular sentiment up here.
John: Absolutely.
John: NIMBY, or at least it was before people realized that being called a NIMBY was exactly the same as having the phrase, first world problem shouted at you by somebody that still has a rat tail or a dreadlock.
John: First world problem, NIMBY!
John: I just learned about first world problems.
Merlin: I read about it in the New York Times, and my copy was a little wet.
Merlin: First world problem.
Merlin: Have you ever subscribed to the New York Times?
Merlin: I have subscribed to it.
Merlin: What a fucking death march.
Merlin: I bought that for my wife.
John: Okay, here we go.
Merlin: We're another deeper in the stack in New York Times.
John: I feel obligated to read every word.
John: It's costly.
Merlin: It's very costly.
John: It comes every day, and it takes three hours to read, even the thin ones, if you are obligated to read every word.
John: And so I would sit and just read this thing.
John: It was like, oh, this march through history.
Merlin: Well, in fairness to the New York Times, who are idiots, whoever was delivering it, somebody was stealing our paper basically every day.
Merlin: So even when we dialed it down to just weekends, we got it maybe one out of three days.
John: Someone was stealing your paper?
John: I mean, you have to go up a long flight of stairs to get to your door.
Merlin: Don't be creepy.
Merlin: It was somewhere.
Merlin: The thing is we asked them to make it go up the stairs, but they wouldn't do that.
Merlin: And so here's the thing.
Merlin: Now, before that, for a while, I signed up for the introductory offer where you got the New York times every day and we guiltily sat there and read the equivalent of a short book every day.
Merlin: But here's the thing.
Merlin: Also, I, this is not interesting.
Merlin: I got it under one of those special deals.
Merlin: Then the special deal went away and I realized I was spending, spending $100 a month on a newspaper.
Merlin: And that just made me angry.
Merlin: Okay, New York Times, quick, quick, quick, quick, NIMBY.
Merlin: Oh, man.
Merlin: John, I'm lost.
Merlin: No, the mall.
Merlin: Your mall.
Merlin: I know, but I have something very deep in the stack that's important.
Merlin: Let's come back to the mall because that's a long one.
Merlin: Hospitaliano.
Merlin: You know, Hospitaliano, before they officially put it on the menu, my friends and I knew about the unlimited salad and breadsticks for $6.
Merlin: And you do not want a college student.
Merlin: You do not want a group of giddy college students high on Coke refills to know about the salad and breadsticks.
Merlin: That's a Waitron's worst nightmare.
John: Well, but here's the thing.
John: Yeah.
John: I'm going to say here's the thing.
John: Here's the thing about Hospitaliano.
John: Until the day I die.
John: If you want true Hospitaliano, if you're in college and the idea of unlimited salad bar and breadsticks appeals to you, let me introduce you to the Subway meatball sandwich.
Yeah.
John: You know how many meatball sandwiches?
John: That was my original go-to Subway.
John: The price has gone up, but I don't think you can get two meatball sandwiches for $7 anymore.
Merlin: You get to put chili on it.
Merlin: You buy a lot of food in pairs.
Merlin: You buy a clutch of sandwiches pretty often.
John: Early on in the touring life of the Long Winters, there was a joke among the other guys in the band, which was extra meat for a dollar.
John: We'd sit down at the table, and I'd always be the last one to sit down because I'm parking the van or whatever, and I'd walk up to the table.
John: They'd all be looking at the menus, and they would have...
John: They would have searched the menu to see if anywhere on it, it says extra meat for a dollar.
John: And then they'd be like, hey, John, guess what?
John: Extra meat for a dollar.
Merlin: Whoa, really?
Merlin: Extra meat for a dollar.
Merlin: It's the first time in three days you guys had bonded.
Merlin: Double it up.
Merlin: Double it up.
Merlin: Oh, I, you know.
John: But I used to sit in the bathtub and eat those meatball sandwiches when I was in college.
John: And I would get super baked.
John: And sit in the bathtub.
John: And you don't even need a napkin.
John: You're just in the bathtub.
John: You use the bathtub like other people have friends.
John: Meatballs.
John: Covered in meatball sandwich.
John: I was covered from my eyebrows to my knees.
Merlin: What could be more efficient, though?
Merlin: If you put a little bit of a drain catch in there, like a loose screen, like an archaeologist would have, you're not going to have a problem.
Merlin: Not a problem.
Merlin: You get a little more dollier or meatier than you want.
Merlin: Hit the shower.
Merlin: Boom.
Merlin: Start over.
Merlin: Hit reset.
Merlin: Fill that tub halfway up.
Merlin: Spark a duty and just jerk your gherkin.
John: Just like the ancient people, because I feel like ancient people, when they ate, when they had a meal, they were covered in sauce.
John: Let's just call it sauce.
John: They were covered in sauce.
John: They were covered in ancient sauce?
John: From their eyebrows to their knees, they were covered in sauce because they had to get all the way inside the boar, right?
Merlin: I mean, I don't know if you... You mean like warming Luke in a tauntaun?
Merlin: What are you talking about?
John: Basically, one time many, many years ago, a group of people and I went down to the Pike Place Market here where they throw the fish.
Merlin: Yep.
Merlin: And we said to the... By the original Starbucks, if memory serves.
John: Just down the block.
John: And we went to the old-fashioned butcher that is there at the Pike Place Market.
John: And we said, we want a goat.
John: We're hippies, and we want a whole goat.
John: We want to eat a whole goat.
John: And the guy said, we don't have goat.
John: It takes me like eight days to get a goat.
John: Because I have the special order.
John: Nobody eats goat in America.
John: He said, but I can get you a sheep.
John: And we said, all right, we wanted a goat.
John: I'm sorry, John.
John: What the fuck kind of response is that from a butcher?
John: Well, it was nowadays.
John: I bet you you go down there and some guy with a tattoo on his neck and a faux hawk.
John: Tells you, oh, what kind of goat?
John: Do you want a San Francisco goat?
John: I always mention he used to be in a ska band.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: They got goats.
John: They got every kind of artisanal goat you can buy now.
John: But at the time, this is 1993 or something, they weren't throwing goats at you.
John: You had to special.
John: And this guy was willing to get us a goat, but he was like, there's an eight-day waiting goat.
John: period that would bring in the tourists if they started throwing some fucking goats yes it would and we were like we're like all right we don't we want it we want it today right i mean we didn't we we were stoners we couldn't think eight days in advance so he gives us this sheep an entire sheep and uh and we cart it back to this house and it was right in the center of town i don't know what we were thinking but we dug a pit in the backyard and
John: And we filled it full.
Merlin: Did any of you have any experience with goat cooking or sheep cooking?
John: None of us.
John: I think it was one of the girls had this idea, like, we should eat a goat.
John: And then off we went, you know.
John: And so we dig a pit in the backyard.
John: We fill it with coals.
John: And we wrap this entire goat in aluminum foil.
John: And we throw it in the pit.
John: And we cover it with dirt.
John: And we sit there for the afternoon.
John: This goat is underground.
John: And by mid-afternoon, we dig the goat up, and it kind of catches on fire for a while because the fat... They burn super easy, don't they?
John: Yeah, just caught right on fire.
John: Where do you think lanolin comes from?
John: Well, that's exactly right.
John: They come from the sheep, although from the furry part, right?
Hmm.
John: But anyway, so we get this goat out and we pull it out of the ground and it's all covered in dirt and stuff where the foil had fallen apart.
John: And everybody kind of backs away from it because it's a whole, it's this whole carcass that's now like black.
John: Nobody wants to come close to it.
John: And so somebody's like, well, you know, who's gonna, what do we do now kind of thing.
John: And so
John: I walk over to it and I start to kind of poke at it.
John: And I say, give me some plates.
John: Give me some trays, you know.
John: And I start to take this sheep apart a little bit by bit and kind of find the meat and separate it and put it over on this tray.
John: And pretty soon, I'm covered in sheep sauce.
John: Like, I'm up to my elbows in this sheep.
John: And everybody's standing around and everybody's kind of panting like,
John: And of course we're hippies, right?
John: So there are dogs all around, but they're, but they're well-trained dogs.
John: So they're all kind of like attentive standing there like, and, and there's like, we have a keg, I guess.
John: And people start showing up and I'm, I'm in this sheep and I'm pulling it apart.
John: And pretty soon I'm like taking big handfuls of it.
John: I mean,
John: eating while I'm pulling the sheep apart and other people kind of join in.
John: Pretty soon everybody's up to their elbows in this sheep and we're all covered with grease.
John: And it was the most bacchanalian experience of my whole life.
John: Pretty soon this thing that we were extremely timid about approaching at first, we're just all diving into this thing.
John: And by the end of it, by the end of the evening,
John: There was not a bit of that sheep left.
John: The dogs had eaten all the bones, completely eaten them.
John: We had devoured.
John: People were licking the trays.
John: But this is hippies.
John: We all had raging boners.
John: It was bonkers.
John: I still think about that time.
John: Whenever I need a boost of confidence, whenever I've got my tie on and I'm downtown and I'm about to go see some magistrate about some trumped up charges that they've got to try and keep me down so that my wisdom isn't spread.
John: As I'm about to walk into the magistrate's office, I think, right, right.
John: I was once covered in, I was once in a sheep.
John: I know what it's like.
John: I'm a man.
Merlin: If you can devour a goat, you can beat that rap.
John: See what I'm saying?
John: And that's an experience I don't think a lot of people have.
John: But what I realized later was I had a proto experience with a meatball sandwich in a bathtub.
John: Like I understood that sense of being, I understood that feeling of being covered in sauce.
John: It's very important.
John: Initially, you're a little timid.
John: I approached that meatball sandwich with humidity.
John: Give me something to poke at it.
John: Because most people sit down at a table and they're like, I have to eat this meatball sandwich without getting dirty.
Merlin: But that is wrong.
Merlin: No, that sandwich starts with shame and fear.
Merlin: Think about this, John.
Merlin: Can I ask you this?
Merlin: You take a live animal and throw it in a hot pot.
Merlin: It makes a little screaming noise, which is actually the flesh tearing away from the shell.
John: You're talking about a sea animal.
Merlin: I'm talking about a sea animal.
Merlin: It starts out black and ends up red.
John: You're not going to throw a live mammal in a pot.
Merlin: One step at a time.
Merlin: And what do they do?
Merlin: In the vicious act of taking a live animal, the only way to have this animal be really tasty is to have the water super hot and
Merlin: You're talking about a crab or a lobster.
Merlin: And the lobster be very, very alive.
Merlin: You throw a lobster into boiling water and cook it.
Merlin: And then somebody takes some butter from a cow and heats it up and puts it next to you.
Merlin: Somebody takes a fucking lobster that was alive a few minutes ago and puts it on your plate.
Merlin: And what's the first thing you do?
John: Oh, you put a napkin on.
Merlin: Yeah, put on a plastic bib with a picture, a drawing of a lobster on it.
John: Yeah.
John: Right?
John: See, that's the point at which you are divorced from your animal nature when you put on that bib.
Merlin: That's a meal that begins with an apology.
John: In your case, you're saying— You're absolutely right.
John: The lobster experience should be they put that lobster in front of you, and you take off your fucking shirt.
John: That's what that should be.
John: You should take off your shirt and draw a lobster on your chest—
John: No, no, no.
Merlin: Take the lobster's wife.
Merlin: It's still alive.
Merlin: Attach it to your head with a rubber band.
Merlin: So it's almost like... So it can see.
Merlin: No, no, it's got to see.
Merlin: You cut off its lobster eyelids and ate them with her husband.
Merlin: sits there.
Merlin: Maybe you take the baby lobsters and like gaffer tape it to the top of the mom.
Merlin: Here you go, kids.
Merlin: Bleach your seats.
Merlin: And then you fucking dig in till you're covered with what's called lobster sauce?
Merlin: Lobster sauce.
Merlin: I think that's a ping pong thing.
Merlin: I have to... Oh, John, now can I ask you a question?
Merlin: Now the sheep, like I think about how I like... We've dined out.
Merlin: What are you, a rare, medium rare kind of guy?
Merlin: You're a medium rare guy.
John: Yeah, some medium rare.
John: I like a rare if it's really burned on the outside.
John: Like a Pittsburgh style.
John: That's kind of like a sheep.
John: They used to make that.
John: There was a place in Alaska called the Double Muskie.
John: It's way out in the forest, but they have like a Michelin star or something.
John: Because nobody knows how to take it away.
John: They get these steaks that are the size of rugby balls.
John: And the way they cook them is they have a fireplace, like a big fireplace.
John: Like a baseball or a tomahawk?
John: No, like a rugby ball.
Merlin: You ever had a baseball steak?
John: Yeah.
John: I had one in Sun Valley one time.
John: I was so stoned I couldn't finish it.
John: Because there's the other thing about being stoned.
John: You get halfway into a steak and you get super grossed out because you're high.
Merlin: Try sushi.
John: You're thinking about it too much.
Merlin: When sushi gets warm, I get real humane.
Merlin: Okay, so anyway, you're out in the woods.
Merlin: There's a Michelin man making.
John: These huge steaks, these gigantic gorgeous steaks, they just throw them in a fireplace.
John: And that gets you a Michelin star.
Merlin: I've heard that called Pittsburgh, and I've heard it called Black and Blue.
John: I think Pittsburgh is the origin of that.
Merlin: I think Pittsburgh is when, you know what, we're going to get corrected by ourselves.
Merlin: Have you been to Pittsburgh?
Merlin: No, but I'm from Ohio, so I know enough not to go there.
John: Pittsburgh, if you've been to Pittsburgh, that is an appropriate, like the burn on the outside, rare on the inside steak is an appropriate metaphor for the city.
Merlin: Can't write that down.
Merlin: Pittsburgh, don't overthink it.
Merlin: Monongahela.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: It's the, don't tell me, it's the Ohio, the, I know this, such a great word.
Merlin: There's three, there's three.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: Rivers.
Merlin: It's the.
Merlin: Name them.
Merlin: Hang on.
Merlin: It's the Allegheny.
Merlin: Oh, hey.
Merlin: Allegheny, the Ohio, and the Monongahela?
John: Well, the Allegheny and the Monongahela, like, go, like, make the Ohio.
Merlin: So, yes, those are the three rivers.
Merlin: I'm from Cincinnati.
Merlin: I will not hear any talk like that.
Merlin: Let me ask you this real quick.
Merlin: Top of your head, don't think about a Pittsburgh versus Detroit, which is worse.
Merlin: Detroit, right?
John: Oh, Detroit's a thousand times worse.
John: Pittsburgh isn't even really bad anymore.
John: They tore down all the abandoned factories in Pittsburgh and replaced them with predictable malls and baseball stadiums.
John: Cheesecake factories.
John: But when I first went to Pittsburgh back in the 80s, holy moly,
Merlin: That was really when the whole Rust Belt, they were still struggling to get away from the Rust Belt.
John: Well, they were closing all the factories down.
John: And the Union people something made.
Merlin: I thought that was... Do you remember that?
Merlin: Was that that one?
Merlin: Was that the nylon curtain where he just had a bunch of fucking fake Bruce Springsteen songs?
Merlin: He had the... We'll all go down together.
Merlin: That's a different one.
Merlin: That's not Allentown.
Merlin: That's Goodnight Saigon.
Merlin: Hello Hanoi.
Merlin: What's that called?
John: There was a certain point in the career.
John: Goodnight Saigon?
John: A certain point in the canon of Billy Joel.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Which I... I'd like to man that canon.
John: Which I locate somewhere around the first note that Billy Joel ever sang where I stopped paying attention.
Merlin: Oh, that is so reductive.
Merlin: He's really terrible.
Merlin: I'm not going to lie to John Rock.
Merlin: I'm still stinging over the kiss thing.
Merlin: But you know what?
Merlin: I'm not going to take that with Billy Joel.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: There's a whole lot of people... You can say stranger.
Merlin: You want to say glass houses?
Merlin: Fine.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: You know, that's fine.
Merlin: You know, I'm just saying.
Merlin: A bottle of red.
Merlin: A bottle of white.
Merlin: Ah, for later.
John: Mood tonight.
Merlin: You tell me you don't like Piano Man at all.
John: I do not.
John: It's a waltz.
John: Like Piano Man at all.
John: You don't like Piano Man at all?
John: I think that song.
Merlin: You don't like the last verse of that song?
Merlin: The piano sounds like a carnival.
John: You don't like that?
John: The Piano Man is a perfect example of how the American listening public has no clothes.
John: Oh, Jesus.
John: People respond to this guy sitting up there with his horseshit story.
John: And they're like, oh, I'm so sad.
Merlin: You're so fucking dead inside.
Merlin: But that said, I think Allentown is a kick-ass jam.
Merlin: You know what it is?
Merlin: Even if it had different words, I think, you know what's weird about Billy Joel is I think some of his strongest songs, like Hall & Oates, are mid-tempo numbers.
Merlin: I think America is afraid of a good mid-tempo song.
Merlin: I love Hall & Oates.
Merlin: Oh, well, think about...
Merlin: What is that?
Merlin: What song is that?
Merlin: It's one of those Hall & Oates songs.
Merlin: Oh, by the way, I've been told by numerous people, including my friend Dr. Donald Schaffner, that when you sing the Janet Jackson version of My Name, sing it.
Merlin: Merlin, man, they're watching you.
Merlin: I'm sorry.
Merlin: I did that probably a little bit like a quarter to five.
Merlin: That's interesting.
Merlin: Try it.
Merlin: Try it.
Merlin: Sing it to the tune of Private Eyes.
John: Merlin man, he's watching me.
Merlin: You missed a little gasondo.
Merlin: Merlin man.
Merlin: Oh my gosh, John.
Merlin: This is your every move.
John: Baby!
John: The reason that Allentown is such a great jam is it uses that same shink, like fake synthesizer.
Merlin: It's like a Pink Floyd kind of sound?
John: Well, you know, I think in Allentown it's meant to symbolize the sledgehammer hitting the ingot or whatever, but that's the same exact sound that is in ZZ Top's sleeping bag.
John: which is the last good ZZ Top song.
Merlin: Is that the sleeper on, what's it called, Destroyer?
Merlin: Destroyer, Rock and Roll Over?
Merlin: What's the name, Exterminator?
John: No, see, the record after, Eliminator was one of the classic records of the 80s, and the record after that, after they became cartoons,
Merlin: The synthesizers worked.
Merlin: I keep interrupting you.
Merlin: I'm sorry.
Merlin: The synthesizers really worked.
Merlin: You've written about this.
Merlin: That's your favorite.
Merlin: Actually, what was that?
Merlin: NPR?
Merlin: You were somewhere talking about... Eliminator.
Merlin: I keep trying to make the case for people.
John: I talk about it everywhere you go.
John: If you ever waited for a bus in Seattle, at some point we've had this conversation because I go up to people at bus stops and I say, listen, have you ever really listened to Eliminator now?
John: I know it's non-canonical.
John: I know you're supposed to only like the...
John: Tres Hombres era of ZZ Top, but I swear to you, Eliminator is a... You were on the Crackpot Jesse Thorne thing, and you described it extremely well.
Merlin: I think as well as you could articulate an album that's not really that good, I think you made a really good case for it.
John: But here's the problem after Burner, the record that came right after Eliminator, and you used all the same formula.
John: After Burner was just a steaming plate of horseshit.
John: It was terrible.
Merlin: Did they take the synthesizer?
Merlin: Because the synthesizer is part of what really makes the previous record work.
Merlin: Did they kind of overdo it?
John: Not just the synthesizer.
John: It was the sonics, drums.
John: It was all the fake sounds.
John: But the problem with Afterburner is that they forgot that there needs to be a long guitar solo in the center of every tune.
John: That's true.
John: You can't have a ZZ Top tune and not have it.
John: This is the thing ACDC never forgot.
John: Come to the solo, you modulate up a half a step, and the center of the tune has to be a guitar solo.
Merlin: That's an awesome tricky underused... You're saying half a step, you're saying like you go E to half.
John: You go E to F, and it's not a thing where you sing the chorus again a half a step up.
John: I know, the truck driver changed.
John: You just modulate up for the guitar solo, and then you come back down, and no one even notices it happen, but it makes the guitar solo just... Oh, no, it freshens everything.
Merlin: You know what else I like?
Merlin: I like... My band did this on a couple songs.
Merlin: You do the chorus...
Merlin: I'm going to write that down because I've got to come back to something very important that happened.
Merlin: I've been seeing Bacon Ray a lot lately.
Merlin: I'll tell you why.
Merlin: Somebody remastered our good record for us.
Merlin: Somebody using the technology that we did not have in 1999, he remastered our record and it's completely different.
Merlin: I won't make you listen to it because I know you don't like music.
Merlin: He did it like pro bono or he did it?
Merlin: Yeah, he's a friend of ours who like, you know, he's like friends with Tom Dower and stuff.
Merlin: He's a really good producer in Florida of all places and he has the ability.
Merlin: John, is it possible to go in and do stuff
Merlin: Like, he added separation to the drums.
Merlin: It's crazy.
Merlin: He must have, like, the equalizer from hell.
Merlin: It's unbelievable.
Merlin: Anyway, this is boring.
Merlin: What was I going to say?
Merlin: Tejas, LaGrange, ZZ Top, synthesizers.
Merlin: God damn it.
John: Ahoyed it.
John: Ahoyed it.
John: Ahoyed it on the X. That's the funny thing about... Sean Nelson was the one that pointed this out to me.
Merlin: Peso, peso, peso.
John: That there's a kind of southern accent that ZZ Top resorts to sometimes that also...
Merlin: CCCR, also CCR.
John: CCR does it, and Jackie Gleason as the sheriff in Smokey and the Bandit also had it, where the southern accent takes on characters of a kind of Queens, Bronx accent.
John: I hoid it through the grapevine.
John: Yeah, I hoid it through the grapevine.
John: Like where those two accents both come up with the...
John: The Herd to Hoid.
Merlin: Well, you'll remember a few episodes ago when I was doing... I think it comes from... What would that be?
Merlin: What's that stuff?
Merlin: It's not Charlie Patton.
Merlin: It's not Sunhouse.
Merlin: What is it?
Merlin: It's not exactly Chicago.
Merlin: What would you call that when you do the... You know, not Bound to the Bone.
Merlin: But when you do that, what style is that?
Merlin: Is that Delta?
Merlin: That's not really Delta, right?
John: Yeah, absolutely, sir.
Merlin: But I think that's that kind of like – I think that's where that comes from.
Merlin: I think it comes from some kind of not quite Robert Johnson era blues and not quite Chicago blues.
Merlin: You know what I'm saying?
John: But before the musical aspect of it, it's the way people actually talk down.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: It sounds a lot like the way people sound in –
Merlin: get back in a band i need to get back in a fucking band because i got the blues you do have the blues i got the blues i got the blues for my baby by the uh san francisco bay i have the blues so bad that i that i've forgotten to play the blues and if that doesn't give a person the blues you know what i screw up sometimes can i tell you what i do this is so embarrassing this is worse than masturbating on a sandwich in a bathtub sometimes easy there sometimes i accidentally
Merlin: I'm not trying to do some 12-tone thing here.
Merlin: Sometimes I accidentally do 10-bar blues or 14-bar blues.
John: What's wrong with that?
John: Well, I don't think that's right.
John: There's no right in blues.
John: I mean, I'm sorry.
John: There's no wrong in blues.
John: There's no wrong in blues.
John: I think that's ping pong talk.
John: No, no, no.
John: There's no wrong in blues.
John: Just like there's no wrong in jazz.
Merlin: Oh, see, that is such a misconception.
John: The thing about jazz is if you play a wrong note, you just play it three more times and it's a motif.
John: In blues... You know what?
Merlin: You can throw anything in a blues song.
Merlin: I think that works for Monk, and I think that works for Miles Davis.
Merlin: I think most people just aren't practicing enough, the other people.
Merlin: Or you got your teeth kicked out, like Chet Baker.
Merlin: I think most people, you know... There's a lot of tremendously bad jazz.
Merlin: Oh, John.
Merlin: John Roderick.
Merlin: Oh, I need a much, much bigger card.
Merlin: Bad jazz.
Merlin: Oh, I got such a problem with bad jazz.
John: You know, my dad's premise about jazz.
John: I don't.
John: He used to say... Do it.
John: Do the voice.
John: When there stopped being eight saxophones and there was only one guy soloing the whole time, that's not jazz.
John: That's just everybody soloing.
John: Everybody solos at once.
John: My dad stopped listening to music in 19, or stopped listening to new music in 1950.
Merlin: Smart.
John: Was he into trad?
Merlin: That's what they call it in England, right?
Merlin: You got trad jazz?
John: Well, he wouldn't even call it that.
John: It was big band jazz.
John: Yeah.
John: And he listened to it till the day he died.
John: Oh, big band can be fun.
John: And listen to it with a passion.
John: I mean, it's not like he... Like loud.
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: He didn't... He didn't like... His appreciation of music didn't trail off.
John: He just listened to the same Benny Goodman records.
John: Really?
John: And Count Basie and Duke Ellington.
John: And, you know, he listened to them.
John: And he had friends that... I mean, they traded tapes, these guys.
Yeah.
Merlin: Was he born in, what, like the late 20s, early 30s?
John: Early 20s, 1921.
John: You have got to be kidding me.
John: He had a friend that owned a record store.
Merlin: Wait, he was 45 when you were born?
John: Yeah.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
John: But his friend would make him eight tracks of these...
John: uh, like he would discover these live cuts or these, these, um, these kind of B side or not B side, but like unreleased tracks that these guys would, they'd cut, they'd cut a tune and they'd be like, I think we got a better one, but somehow the, the original cut would survive.
John: And he would put these on these, these eight tracks.
John: We had all these eight tracks.
Merlin: Bill Evans, most Bill Evans, most best known record is like three takes of each song.
Um,
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Like what is it?
Merlin: What's called scoring scoring H in the village?
Merlin: What's it called?
John: See, that sounds like some hipster jazz.
John: That's hipster jazz.
Merlin: No, I'm Bill Evans.
Merlin: He had problems.
Merlin: But I think you're totally right.
Merlin: And you know what?
Merlin: I think long before The Grateful Dead and The Fish, I think there were people, especially, I think of it as being the reel-to-reel people.
Merlin: I remember when you first could record on the eight tracks, but I think at that time, some people looked down their nose.
Merlin: I didn't know a lot of people like this, but my parents' friends who were really into that kind of music.
John: I knew a guy that had a whole wall of reels.
Merlin: Yeah, we'll know those people, and there are people to this day, probably John Vanderslice will slide into that at some point, probably.
John: Don't you think?
John: Oh, you think he's headed that direction?
John: You think he's going the other way?
John: Where vinyl just isn't audiophiliac enough and he needs to get all his music on reel-to-reel?
John: Yeah.
John: I don't know.
John: That's a real commitment.
John: I mean, even at the time, it was a real commitment.
John: Those are the guys with the Macintosh stereos.
John: If my dad had $400 and he was looking at a Macintosh receiver that was $400.
John: Macintosh, the costly stereo.
John: The costly stereo.
John: Not Macintosh, the later computer.
John: He was looking at a $400 stereo.
John: He had $400 in his hand.
John: $400 stereo.
John: Or...
John: Door number two, an Apple crate with 10 $40 stereos in it.
John: My dad would absolutely buy the Apple crate and think he had gotten a hell of a deal.
John: He's from a certain time.
John: He would come in and be like, look at all these stereos I got.
John: And I would pick through it and I'd be like, this is all garbage.
John: And he's like, what are you talking about?
John: I got 10 of them.
John: And then there'd be these little shit stereos all over the house.
John: All of them sounded like you're listening to music through a phone.
John: My dad's like, it's great.
John: I got 10 of these.
Merlin: Everything our family ever got, there was no one wider than our family.
Merlin: And everything that they got came from some kind of special offer.
Merlin: I'm pretty sure.
Merlin: Everything we got started with S&H green stamps or joining Columbia House.
John: We didn't have green stamps on the West Coast, or at least I never saw one.
Merlin: There was two kinds.
Merlin: They battled.
Merlin: They were like the pennies in Sears.
Merlin: There was like S&H green stamps and then there was another one.
John: I don't remember which.
John: S&H is part of the problem.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: There's a very, very important story that I have to tell you at some point about the day I got somebody else's package from Columbia House and it changed everything.
John: Oh my goodness.
John: They ordered some Talking Heads records or something?
Merlin: Well, you're not going to love this because I know you don't love all of these, but okay.
John: What was in somebody else's, what was in quote, somebody else's Columbia Records package?
Merlin: Well, you know, this was a huge racket.
Merlin: I was just reading about this one guy that had, I don't know, like a thousand times signed up.
Merlin: He had fake PO boxes.
John: Oh, so he got the 10 records for a penny and then...
Merlin: And then he bailed.
Merlin: I'll try and do good show notes this week.
Merlin: I've been busy with this stuff.
Merlin: But there was a wonderful article about the decline of Columbia House.
Merlin: Because people were ripping them off?
Merlin: Well, that's part of it, but it's also just the change in everything.
John: They were going through the change?
Merlin: Yeah, the menarche of music.
Merlin: That's really good.
John: So what was in this?
John: That is good.
John: I'm Berlin Mann.
John: And that was really good.
John: Tell me about what was in that record package.
Merlin: For people who are just tuning in, I'd like to just do a really quick review of all the things that we haven't gotten to talk about.
Merlin: Just this will only take a second.
John: Yeah, break it down.
Merlin: Are you ready?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: And this is just the ones I caught.
Merlin: Ephedrine and Mucinecth.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: Oh, I need to talk about both of those things.
Merlin: I know, John.
Merlin: This is the problem.
Merlin: This is why we need to move to a daily format.
Merlin: Being famous before 27.
Merlin: The tertiary problem of greatness.
Merlin: Hospitaliano.
Merlin: Our mall.
Merlin: NIMBY and why it's your fault.
Merlin: Why I hate the New York Times.
Merlin: My three favorite kinds of Subway sandwiches.
Merlin: Extra meat for a dollar.
Merlin: Throwing fish and or goats.
Merlin: The double musky.
Merlin: What is the difference between a sheep and a goat?
Merlin: A friend I have that makes whole animal meals as a business owner.
Merlin: pittsburgh versus detroit and how i want you to talk about detroit you don't like the piano man uh what my two i really want we got to talk about this my two karaoke songs i want to talk about jesse thorne karaoke i will talk about jesse thorne though my question is did you get to the end what was your question did you get to the end of the list what was the one you just said a minute ago uh i will talk about detroit oh they said something about jesse thorne
John: Oh, I will talk about Jesse Thorne, too.
John: Yeah, it's a whole different show.
Merlin: Did Billy Gibbons play with a peso?
Merlin: Macintosh versus Macintosh and Fairlights, my two idea of the most expensive things in the world, and Columbia House.
John: Did you know that one of the first records I ever bought was the eight track of Studio 50, the greatest hits of Studio 54?
John: I love disco.
John: That was, I bought that off the television.
Merlin: What era?
Merlin: We're talking about like 77, 77, 76?
Merlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: It was one of those like, get it now.
Merlin: The greatest hits of Studio 54 on eight track and cassette.
Merlin: I had so many things.
Merlin: You know, I have one from KTL called Solid Gold.
Merlin: It still has like some of my favorite.
Merlin: It's got like Renegade.
Merlin: Remember that record?
Merlin: Doctor, give me the news maybe.
Merlin: Oh, God.
Merlin: I got a bad case of loving you.
Merlin: I had an 8-track of it.
Merlin: I'm surprised Billy Joel didn't write that.
Merlin: With that overdone vibrato.
John: It sounds so much like Born to be Wild.
Merlin: Oh, John, this is hard.
Merlin: That whole fake working guy thing.
John: Are you going to talk about Bruce Springsteen?
Merlin: Because that might make me a little mad.
Merlin: I'm not going to talk about Bruce Springsteen.
Merlin: He's not that rich.
Merlin: I don't think he's a... I think he's pretty fucking rich.
Merlin: Oh, he's rich?
Merlin: Are you kidding me?
Merlin: He could eat anything he wants in anybody's bathtub.
Merlin: Bruce Springsteen rides a llama out to the mailbox in the morning.
Merlin: A giant novelty-sized mailbox to hold his giant novelty-sized checks.
John: Actually, he has a whole bunch of little people who ride llamas around his estate.
John: On his behalf?
John: All dressed like him?
John: It's like the island of Dr. Moreau.
John: No, he has ostriches roaming his whole estate and he has people riding them jousting each other because that's his favorite video game.
John: He's like, I love the video game Joust.
John: I want to buy 25 ostriches.
John: I want to see it.
John: I want to see it in real life.
Merlin: Can you imagine the horror of going to the Bruce Springsteen estate and it's all real-life video games?
Merlin: And you're like, holy shit.
Merlin: And he goes, let me ask you a question.
Merlin: Do you remember a little game called Burger Time?
Merlin: I really should go.
Merlin: Could you call me an ostrich?
Merlin: Like, let's go down in the basement.
Merlin: I have a glass wall.
Merlin: We can see them working.
Merlin: Do you have – this is a performative self-serving question.
Merlin: Do you have a karaoke song?
John: I hate karaoke.
Merlin: That was not the question, John.
John: Do you have a karaoke song?
John: It's such a bustman's holiday for me.
Merlin: I do.
Merlin: I do.
Merlin: Oh, it's so trying, John.
John: I do have a karaoke song.
John: What is it?
John: Well, it's... Whatchamacallit?
John: Brandy.
John: It's Brandy.
John: You're a fine girl.
John: What a good wife you would be.
John: Such a fine girl.
John: My wife, my lover, my lady.
Merlin: Is it?
John: It's a great tune.
Merlin: It is a great tune.
John: And the reason that it's my karaoke song is that it falls right in my register.
John: That's the key.
Merlin: That's the key.
Merlin: There's two keys to karaoke.
Merlin: One of them is... The second one is it must be in your range.
Merlin: The first one is you must have the slightest clue how the song goes.
John: But this is the problem with Brandy.
John: It falls right... What I was about to say is it falls right in my register between...
John: the two places where I'm comfortable singing.
John: So it's either, I can sing it either an octave up where it's, where I'm really straining and it's too high.
John: But if I'm like, if I'm really feeling it or I sing it an octave down and it's too low.
John: So this is why I hate karaoke because my karaoke song is not in a, in a comfortable range for me.
Merlin: That's the first thing you've hated that I have any fucking sympathy for.
Merlin: That's a very, that is a very.
John: In our entire friendship, that is the first thing I've hated that you've had any sympathy for.
Merlin: I can't tell if it was 2002, 2003, probably 2000.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I don't remember.
Merlin: No, it must have been 2002.
Merlin: No, you're a completely unsympathetic character, but you just accidentally showed a little bit of yourself.
Merlin: Not when you talked about masturbating with a submarine sandwich, but when you brought it out that there's a register.
John: I'm not a monster.
Merlin: You're not getting off this easy.
Merlin: That's terrible.
Merlin: All right.