Ep. 121: "Homeland Freedom Station"
Merlin: this episode of roderick on the line is sponsored by squarespace the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website portfolio and online store for your free trial plus 10 off anything you buy please visit squarespace.com and enter the offer code super train at checkout a better web starts with your website hello hey john
Merlin: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: How's it going?
Merlin: Good.
Merlin: Good.
Merlin: Merlin.
Merlin: I think I might have accidentally just alerted you to one of my great life hacks, as I call it.
Merlin: Oh, you alerted me to a life hack?
Merlin: Yeah, you could probably figure it out.
Merlin: You could figure it out, yeah.
Merlin: Yeah, okay, all right.
Merlin: Which is I wait until the person is on the Skype and ready to go, and that's when I go pee.
John: Right, because that gives you the longest possible amount of time to podcast between peas.
Merlin: Yes, yes, and I just feel like I don't want my biology, such as it is, to get in the way of your helping people.
Merlin: My biology.
Merlin: Do-ga-do-ga-do-ga-do.
John: Um, yeah, well, uh, the thing about, um, having to go to pee all the time is that you don't want to get, you don't want to like start.
John: I mean, wait, well, wait a minute.
John: Now I was about to say that you didn't want to do this, but the more I think about it, I feel like maybe you do want to start doing this, which is, uh, you need to start thinking about yourself as an astronaut.
Merlin: Oh, you mean like training myself for opportunities?
John: No, I mean like SR-71 pilots, right?
John: They were on long missions strapped into their chair.
John: They had to devise a system by which they could relieve themselves in cockpit.
John: You know what I'm saying?
John: So you're sitting there in your podcasting cockpit...
John: You need to get one of those pilot's friends, pilot helper.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
John: And just, like, rig it up.
Merlin: You're right, you're right.
John: Get into your pressure suit, get rigged up pre-podcast, and then, you know, whatever happens, you're not going to take your eyes off the prize.
John: Sometimes when you're podcasting, you're going Mach 3, you're going Mach 3.5.
Merlin: in podcast mock yeah and it seems to me that you know you learn from day one in the training it's really it's all about the mission that's right right yeah that's right well i'm halfway there i don't have a pressurized suit that i'm willing to share but i uh but you're living on a prayer yeah halfway wow that's pretty good thanks
John: That's almost a Merlin Mannism.
Merlin: When you were doing the glutens, you couldn't pull them that fast before.
John: No, I couldn't.
John: At 1.2 G's, I was out of the game.
John: But now, I'm pulling 6 G's sometimes.
John: 6 G's, you're a mock turtle.
Merlin: I'm a mock turtle.
Merlin: Oh, man, that's been troubling me.
Merlin: Here's the thing.
Merlin: Human dignity, I've let so much stuff go, just because I know I'll never have dignity, but...
Merlin: There's something about the panic of realizing that there's some very hot, helpful sharing going on.
Merlin: And knowing that, you know, I could just reach down and grab something, like, say, a bottle.
Merlin: I don't like to do it, but I've done it.
Merlin: Gatorade bottle.
Merlin: Gatorade bottle.
Merlin: Sure, we'll call it Gatorade.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: But something where you could, you know, keep the mucks.
John: But I'm telling you, this is more, this is systematized.
John: If you go down to a pilot supply store...
John: And you strike up a conversation with the guy behind the counter.
John: Now, he's going to be initially suspicious of you because he's going to recognize you're not a pilot.
John: He's going to be like, what are you doing in here?
John: He's going to smell it on you.
John: But you strike up a rapport with him, and then you say, so what you're trying to get to is what he's got under the counter, the pilot's helper, pilot's friend.
Merlin: Sure, there's going to be stuff like sweatshirts and duffel bags that say NASA that any sucker, tourist, can come in and buy.
Merlin: Exactly.
Merlin: If you want a legitimate Neil Armstrong piddle pad, you're going to have to know a guy.
John: You're going to have to know a guy.
John: Or, the more I think about it, you could probably just find it on the internet.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: I would go to a pilot supply store.
John: You would probably just find it on the internet.
Merlin: Well, you know, it's probably something like supplements, where you want to make sure you're getting the best version of it.
John: You want the Neil Armstrong...
John: autographed, form-fitted, Cynthia Plastercaster, pilot's friend, pilot's helper.
Merlin: It seems like most of what I know about space travel is from an episode of The Simpsons and mythology about the space pen, but I know you don't want stuff floating around that shouldn't be floating around.
Merlin: I've seen Gravity.
Merlin: I saw it in the theater.
Merlin: I know you don't want stuff floating around.
Merlin: That velocity is going to be problematic.
John: The same is true in your podcasting capsule.
John: You don't want little orbs of Pearl's Jam floating around the room.
John: Were you about to ask if I think astronauts masturbate?
Merlin: Yeah, I mean, it has to be something.
Merlin: It seems to me that I remember reading something about, I think it was Sally Ride, where they were like, well, you know, you're going to have your lady time up in space.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: What do you need?
Merlin: Like 100 pads?
Merlin: Like how many do you need?
Merlin: Like they were so manifestly unclueful about how a lady bottom works, moon-wise.
Merlin: What did they do?
John: What did they end up – they just made a suit out of pads?
John: She said, just give me a couple of those.
John: Don't worry about it.
John: It'll be fine.
Merlin: But, you know, probably this is true anytime you're in the armed services, but especially if you're in astronaut training, you've got to look past a lot of the things that you'd rather not talk to people about.
Merlin: They need to know, obviously, if you're going to get diseases.
Merlin: They need to know if you get claustrophobia and can't stare at a wall six inches from your face.
Merlin: They need to know all of that.
Merlin: But if you're going to the space center, the space, what's it called?
Merlin: The ISS, what's it called?
Merlin: Yeah, the second space.
Merlin: Second space.
Merlin: If you're going to second space, whether you're a rescue or a real American, at some point, you're going to need to spend a penny.
Merlin: You know what I mean?
Merlin: Well, or... You need to, you know... Or will you?
John: Can you just hold it?
John: Well, I think.
John: I think that might be one of the things that they train him to do.
John: They just hold it.
John: I mean, think of... Well, wait a minute.
John: Right?
John: I mean...
John: If Buzz Aldrin can take a holy communion on the moon and nobody finds out about it.
Merlin: What?
Merlin: They gave him space communion?
John: No, he gave himself space communion.
Merlin: Well, it seems like you'd have to contact a lot of people at the Vatican to make that official.
Merlin: You didn't hear that story?
Merlin: No, because then that would, I mean, if I understand transubstantiation, which I probably don't, that means that Christ was literally on the moon.
John: Christ was fucking on the moon.
Merlin: His body and his blood.
John: His body and his blood were on the moon.
John: I don't know.
John: What confuses me is you can't put something in your mouth because your hands have gloves on them.
John: So the wafer would have to be in your helmet in such a way that you could lean down and stick your tongue out and grab it.
John: Wouldn't they put it in a tube?
John: Well, I don't think they did anything.
John: I think Buzz was off the reservation.
Merlin: You're saying he had a rogue space communion operation going on.
John: He had rogue space communion, and we didn't find out about it until many years later, and now he expresses regret.
John: He says he's regretful about having taken space communion because he feels like going to the moon was on behalf of all humans, and he, at the time, sort of made it just for Christians.
John: Yeah.
John: He was there for Christians and that's how he thought at the time.
Merlin: I think he's being awfully hard on himself.
John: Well, you know, I mean, I think that's part of the astronaut training.
John: You got to be hard on yourself.
Merlin: That's part of that.
Merlin: Number one is you don't pee too much or other stuff or other stuff.
John: You got to be hard on yourself.
John: And I think part of that is you don't pull one off in space.
John: Yes.
John: Because just, I mean, even if you had it all nailed down, even if you were like, even if you had space communion levels of secrecy.
John: What happens if one little something about Mary glob gets away and it's flying around the space station?
Merlin: That's some sensitive equipment, John.
Merlin: You do not want that in your lander.
John: That's right.
Merlin: That will arc.
Merlin: It's introducing viscosity.
Merlin: It's going to be some awkward.
Merlin: There's expensive phone calls to make.
John: Sure, and here comes your Russian space friend, he's coming through the tube, or she's coming through the tube, and you're like chasing your little glob the other direction, and then, oh no, look out!
Merlin: So are you saying, well, are you saying we should keep Catholics out of space?
Merlin: Because it seems to me it could be kind of a mixed blessing.
Merlin: On the one hand, they might try to sneak in some space communion, but on the other hand, they might feel super guilty about space masturbation.
John: I think that the ship has sailed.
John: The rocket has launched on Catholics in space.
John: I think it's too late to keep Catholics out of space.
John: I think they're there, and now we just have to make the best of it.
Merlin: Sea of tranquility under the bridge.
Merlin: Now, what about Jews?
John: Have there been Jews on the moon?
John: I think by this point in time, there have not—well, maybe not on the moon—
John: Let's see.
John: Let's see what the internet says about Jews on the... Jews on the moon.
John: Jews on the moon.
John: Google doesn't come up with anything.
John: Wait.
John: Jews on the moon is... There's a book called Jews on the Moon.
John: Jews on the moon.
Merlin: Oh, here we go.
Merlin: Wikipedia provides a list of Jewish astronauts.
John: There it is.
John: Jews on the moon is a series of books...
John: So, oh, the first Jew in space was a cosmonaut.
John: Thank you, Soviet Union.
John: Boris Volyanov.
John: Volyanov.
John: Volyanov.
John: And then the first American Jewish person was a woman.
Merlin: Judith Resnick.
Merlin: and she died in the challenger disaster so oh my god she looks like your type john she's very very pretty judith resnick yeah i'm just saying though that's that's a that's a john profile right there look at that she's a space lady she's got that look that you like she's really a very pretty you can lose your hand in that hair look at that i'm sorry that she is gone now from the world
Merlin: You know, my, you know, my chemistry teacher was like a runner up for that.
Merlin: I told you that, right?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: She was standing out there, standing out there.
Merlin: It was like a year after I graduated.
Merlin: It's a really big deal.
Merlin: She'd been in the news.
Merlin: I told you this a million times, but can you just imagine standing there and watching that happen, standing there at Gulf Comprehensive High School and watching that thing?
Merlin: And then you got to talk to the media.
John: No good.
John: Oh, you know, there was an Israeli astronaut on the Columbia.
John: I knew that.
John: I knew that already.
John: Other than that one Israeli astronaut and the first cosmonaut, the first Jewish cosmonaut, every other Jewish person to go into space has been an American.
John: Check your privilege.
John: And there are quite a few, quite a few, I would say, not as many.
John: Well, let's try Catholics on the moon.
Merlin: I'm glad we did this because I feel like I'm learning.
Merlin: I did not know this.
Merlin: I had no idea.
Merlin: Do you think there might be an optimal faith for someone who's going to the moon?
John: I think just like if you want to be president of the United States, your chances are better if you are from Virginia or Ohio.
John: I think if you are trying to go to space, your chances are better just statistically if you are a Christian.
John: I bet you more Christians than other... Protestant Christian.
John: Protestant Christian, that's right.
John: I think that's probably just... Those are the people who joined the Air Force.
John: And the people who join the Air Force have a better chance of going to the moon.
John: Yeah, now here, of course, Catholics on the moon, the first thing we get is Eucharist on the moon, question mark, question mark, on the Catholic Answers Forum.
John: And that is probably talking about Buzz Aldrin.
John: And they're probably debating it.
John: They're probably...
John: They're probably getting mad.
Merlin: I mean, there's a lot of rules for how the communion works.
Merlin: I went to a Catholic wedding over the summer, and I think it's probably still going on somewhere.
Merlin: Have you been to a Catholic wedding?
Merlin: I have, yeah.
Merlin: Like a full mass?
John: Yes.
Merlin: It's like a marathon.
John: Yeah, well, their God is the old God.
Mm-hmm.
John: They have the old gods.
John: They keep to the old gods.
John: I have been not to an Orthodox Christian wedding, but I've been to an Orthodox Christian mass.
John: And that stuff, boy, you really feel like you're in the presence of the old gods there.
John: They've got some great suits.
John: Amazing Suits, they are swinging that sensor.
Merlin: The incest thing.
John: They swing that around.
John: The incest around.
John: Yeah, they are swinging it around.
Merlin: It's a full body experience.
Merlin: I mean, you really, you get it all.
Merlin: You get it all in there.
Merlin: And there's a lot, at least it's a Catholic one, there's a lot of kneeling.
Merlin: And I find it confusing.
Merlin: I have been a person of Christian faith, not a Catholic.
Merlin: But for my poor six-year-old daughter, it was super confusing about when you're supposed to get on the little railing and stuff.
Merlin: You know, you kneel sometimes, you stand sometimes, you sit sometimes.
Merlin: But I get it.
Merlin: I get it.
Merlin: I think I can totally understand wanting to go to church and have the full-body Christian experience.
Merlin: I think it totally makes sense.
John: Now listen to this.
John: Kevin, astronaut Kevin Chilton, shared the body of Christ with Sid Gutierrez and Bob Cabana as we floated weightless on the flight deck.
John: Grateful for this moment of comradeship and communion with Christ.
John: That's nice.
John: So they're out there having the Eucharist in space all the time now.
John: This isn't a thing that they have to sneak anymore.
John: It's a thing that's just going down.
Merlin: It's not a shameful thing.
Merlin: They probably have a kit.
Merlin: They probably have a chaplain who's empowered to transubstantiate the kit.
John: Well, now, let's say I became an astronaut and I wanted to take peyote as part of my traditional... Native American heritage.
John: Yeah, my native heritage.
John: I wanted to have a peyote or like a... A sweat lodge, maybe?
John: An ayahuasca ceremony in space.
John: And I made the argument that that was part of my...
John: Now, what is NASA going to say?
John: They're not going to let that happen.
Merlin: They're going to say, here's your short-sleeved shirt and black tie.
Merlin: Please go smoke in front of this monitor.
Merlin: You're running the space toilets on this mission?
Yeah.
Merlin: You know, I kid.
Merlin: I've seen space movies.
Merlin: It seems like there's a huge amount of sacrifice that goes into that stuff.
Merlin: You know?
Merlin: When did we stop?
Merlin: We stopped in the mid-70s?
John: What, going to the moon?
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Yeah, that was all done.
John: All done by the Carter administration, I think.
John: And it makes me mad.
John: It makes me sad.
John: You know about the space elevators, right?
Merlin: Space elevators?
Merlin: Is that an Elon Musk thing?
Merlin: I'm not sure Elon's actually got his... I think I heard about this.
Merlin: This is a new technology.
John: Yeah, the idea being that you go up in space, you put a counterweight up in space, and then you lower a carbon fiber ribbon down.
John: You lower it slowly down through the atmosphere.
Merlin: Like a colonial window?
Merlin: It's got like a weight that goes up and down?
John: Like a double-hung window?
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah, something like that.
John: You lower the thing down, and then you attach it to the Earth, and then the counterweight is in geosynchronous orbit.
John: So it just flies straight above this spot on the ground, and the little ribbon is just connected from the Earth all the way up into space.
John: And then you can start sending stuff up the ribbon.
Yeah.
John: On little crawlers.
Merlin: Like a little rascal's thing where you send something up in a basket and you send down a puppy?
John: Yeah, that's right.
John: And then the more stuff you send up into space, you add it to the counterweight.
John: And then the bigger the counterweight is, the more stuff you can send up into space.
John: So I think you attach a little teeny ribbon at first, and then you start sending puppies up.
John: And you add the puppies to the counterweight.
John: And then, of course, hopefully the puppies are also breeding up there.
John: God willing.
John: And then when you get a big enough ribbon to start sending buckets of dirt up there, you just start sending dirt.
John: And you build a planetoid.
John: Up in space.
Merlin: So it's a little like the Great Escape.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You put just a little bit of dirt in your pockets.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: Little at a time.
John: And I think what ends up happening is you start building a second Earth.
John: And little by little, you take all the dirt from Earth and send it up the ribbon to second Earth.
John: And you remake Earth.
John: Maybe like four miles away from where Earth is.
Merlin: And then suddenly, someday, boom, we're the counterweight.
Merlin: We're that double-hung sash.
John: That's right.
John: Then you're the counterweight.
John: Oh, man, that's good.
John: That's right.
John: The people left on Earth are all crowded around the counterweight, sending puppies back.
John: So the smart idea, of course, is then you make another space elevator from space to the moon.
John: And then you can send stuff back and forth in space between the two counterweights, and you can start mining the moon.
Merlin: Oh, wow.
John: That's right.
John: You mine the moon for moon rocks, moon dust.
John: That's a big project.
John: But the thing is, you're going back and forth between the two space elevators.
John: That doesn't take any fuel, right?
John: All you have to do is you get a super squirter, and two guys super squirt out the back of one space shuttle, and that's all the power you need to get to the other space elevator.
Merlin: Yeah, it's a vacuum.
John: And then everything else is done on elevators.
John: So you don't need rockets anymore.
Merlin: Boy, that seems pretty plausible.
Merlin: You would just need the will to start the little tiny thread.
John: That's right.
John: And if you can build the interstate highway system, why can't you build space elevators?
Merlin: From your mouth to Buzz Aldrin's God's ear.
John: My God.
John: And then, of course, then it's easy to build a big space station, not one of these crappy little space stations where you're dodging space.
John: It would be crazy not to at that point.
John: Sure, you build a space station like in 2001, A Space Odyssey, or you build a space station like in that really hard... Space 1999.
John: Yeah, that hard-to-watch movie with Good Will Hunting in it.
Merlin: Sandra Bullock?
John: No, that was hard to watch, but that other hard-to-watch one where he was...
John: space commando and um jody foster was the president of of bad space station alien people is that contact first contact no i think the movie was called like check your privilege it really was it was like all the people on earth were all like like um a benetton ad and all the people that were up in space were just these the worst of the whites um
Merlin: Like one of those birthday parties on the Brady Bunch where it's very carefully segmented with minority groups?
John: Well, that – yeah.
John: I think it was a case – it was basically if Charles Mudede wrote a space movie.
John: Hmm.
John: Yeah, it was a thing where everybody that was left on Earth was poor.
John: Oh, I know what you're talking about.
John: They were bad and sad and bad, and they were getting beat down.
Merlin: Good Will Hunting, check your privilege.
Merlin: Yes, yes.
John: What movie is this that I'm thinking of?
John: I don't know.
John: It did not look... Super hard to watch.
John: I think I watched it on an airplane, and I was like, oh my God, this must have sounded so good in a committee, in a conference room in Hollywood.
John: Elysium?
John: There it is!
John: Yeah.
John: Elysium.
John: But there was a very nice rendition of an orbiting space station in Elysium that was like, you know, it looked like a garden space station.
John: Like the 2001 space station kind of looked like a hamster exercise wheel.
John: Still pretty nice.
John: But there were no hanging gardens.
John: There were no fountains.
Merlin: Boy, that movie's beautiful.
John: I feel like the space station that we want to make has got to have some fountains.
John: It's got to have places where you can masturbate in private.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: It's got to be a nice place that you'd want to go.
Merlin: John, it's an American project.
Merlin: It needs to encompass all of our dreams and aspirations.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: It's an American project.
Merlin: You should be able to have a victory garden and maybe an alcove where you could space masturbate.
John: Yeah, and I think it should be built in the shape of a giant American eagle.
John: Like an eagle clutching some arrows in one talon.
John: We just send him up one arrow at a time on the space elevator.
John: Space elevator.
John: I mean, and the problem is this is the first inkling of a thing where I feel like, oh man, I was born...
John: I've always felt like I was born too late.
John: I should have been born in 1820 or whatever.
John: But now this is the first thing where I've felt like, oh, right, the future is just a little bit ahead here of me.
John: And I'm going to be an old man.
John: And they're going to start to work on this garden space station in the shape of a giant American eagle.
John: It's going to be called Freedom Station.
John: homeland freedom station and i'm gonna be too old to to dig it you know what i mean like i wish i was i wish i was born right now i'd be i'd be the right age to be like space station johnny hey and
Merlin: And the thing is, you think about how many things happen.
Merlin: We see this all the time now where somebody comes up with something everybody thinks is a squirrely idea or like, you know, a dangerous idea.
Merlin: And they stick with it and they make it, you know, it could be something like the Wright Brothers.
Merlin: It could be something like an iPhone app.
Merlin: But you come up with something that everybody thinks is implausible.
Merlin: Suddenly it's plausible.
Merlin: At some point it goes from plausible to like, this is kind of a good idea to like, wow, most of the heavy lifting for something potentially cool is already done.
Merlin: And that's when all those jackals dive on it.
Merlin: They want to take it over.
Merlin: So the space elevator, by the time they have a viable ribbon going up into space, you're going to have a lot of these jackals jumping on that and wanting to take it over and corporatize it.
Merlin: You put up an ad, you have in-app purchases, and then that changes the whole tenor of the project.
Merlin: Well, what I worry about is that... You could be an ombudsman.
Merlin: You could be an ombudsman for the space elevator.
Merlin: Or the space freedom equal.
John: My worry, of course, is that once you get a space elevator going and everybody sees, oh, wow, okay, that works, then it's not that hard to put one up there, right?
John: So then there are going to be space elevators everywhere, everywhere you look, and then the Earth is going to start looking like a hairy ball because it's space elevators.
John: The Earth's going to look like it has dreadlocks.
John: Because space elevators are going to be popping up everywhere.
John: Every Tom, Nick, and Harry is going to throw a space elevator up from their house.
Merlin: It's going to be like Minecraft.
Merlin: It's going to be a thing where you get on your phone and you send more stuff to space.
Merlin: You try to build up the counterweight.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Get people to support it.
Merlin: Maybe you work with other people.
John: And then this guy over here has got a big counterweight.
John: That guy over there has got a little counterweight.
John: What's going to happen?
John: You think the big counterweight guy is just going to sit there while the little guy builds up his counterweight?
John: No.
John: He's going to preemptively attack the little guy, his next-door neighbor.
John: He's going to cut the ribbon.
John: Steal his counterweight.
John: There's going to be a lot.
John: That's right.
John: Once that stuff's up in space, it's got a lot of value.
Merlin: You're going to see numerous instances of weight jacking.
John: Right.
John: There's going to be weight jacking.
John: There's going to be ribbon cutting.
John: It's going to be a whole new dimension of competition and war.
John: And how are you going to regulate that?
Merlin: You're going to have terrorists trying to cut people's ribbons.
Merlin: Sure.
Merlin: Espionage ribbon cutters and weight jackers.
John: The thing is, if somebody cuts a ribbon, right, then the weight, then their counterweight is what?
John: Like public domain?
John: First guy to get to the unattached counterweight gets to glom that counterweight onto his counterweight?
Merlin: You get like a weight pirate.
Merlin: You need some space guys to go out and collect the counterweights.
John: See, now there's a job that I could do, weight pirate.
Merlin: Oh, he'd be great at that.
Merlin: Right?
Merlin: You'd have your own like Millennium Falcon type thing.
John: And just jamming around, jacking people's weights.
John: And like selling the weights to the highest bidder, glomming on weights.
Merlin: Oh, I can totally see that.
Merlin: Like bounty hunters, you could have cable shows about the guys who are weight jacking or ribbon snatching.
John: And I think probably, so anyway, then the next thing you want to do is start jacking meteorites.
Hmm.
John: You want to start meteorite jacking because I think a lot of those meteorites have water on them.
John: Right?
John: Frozen water.
John: Okay.
John: In meteorites and comets and stuff.
John: Yeah.
John: So then once you graduate from like counterweight jacking...
John: Turn into a meteorite.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: Meteorite.
Merlin: You get a rogue meteor, and that's like a trip to the bodega now.
Merlin: You don't have to make.
Merlin: You can get the water from that and the resources and stuff that you could use for your... Yeah.
Merlin: So you jump on a meteorite.
John: I think a meteorite is something that's hit the earth.
John: I think it's a meteor.
John: Oh, okay.
John: So you jump on a meteor, and you saddle up.
John: Saddle it up somehow.
John: You put some rockets on it.
John: Little rockets like super soakers.
John: And then you basically harness it, and then you're jamming around on this meteorite, selling water.
John: Water also being, of course, rocket fuel, space fuel.
John: Because you're putting your super soaker.
John: Well, not only that, but hydrogen and oxygen, right?
Merlin: You can burn the shit out of those things.
Merlin: See what I'm saying?
Merlin: This is way more exciting than the life we're living now.
Merlin: Jesus Christ, John.
Merlin: There's so many cockamamie ideas that have been propped up over the years because they were either interesting or had some money in them.
Merlin: I can't believe that the space program has not been allowed to get super freaky.
Merlin: It's a real bummer.
John: It's such a bummer, and again, it's another example of the fact that the people that are running things are the dummies.
John: The dummies are running things, and now, thank God, we got Elon Musk, who's like, you know what?
John: I'm not a dummy.
John: I'm making invisible cars.
John: I'm going to build space elevators.
John: Like, Elon Musk, who knows what that guy is thinking right now?
John: He is basically...
John: He's basically the Emeril Lagasse of space cars.
John: Is he the guy who says bang?
John: Yeah, he's the bang guy.
John: He's just like, bang!
John: You know what I mean?
John: He's got ideas.
John: He's putting some seasoning on there.
John: Bang!
John: That is Elon Musk.
John: He's the chef.
John: He's the Louisiana chef of...
Merlin: of getting things exciting happening it's amazing how close it is to like a super genius super villain though like you really you want somebody who's thinking two or three steps ahead you don't want some guy who goes oh well i'll make a green car that doesn't need to be recharged we've got that you know we want somebody who's thinking way way way ahead of this thanks mr behind the curve
John: Guess what Elon Musk is doing right now?
John: Something way more far out and freaky.
John: He's buying a lot of space ribbon.
John: Wait a minute.
John: Now, here's a question for you.
John: Is Elon Musk a pan man?
Merlin: Isn't he European?
John: Well, he's got a weird... Oh, South African.
Merlin: Oh, South African.
John: South African-born Canadian-American business magnate, it says here.
John: So he was born in Pretoria.
Merlin: Is he a pan man?
Merlin: I don't think he's a pan man.
Merlin: I think Richard Branson is much closer to a pan person.
John: Oh, right.
John: He's pretty panny.
Merlin: He's panny.
Merlin: He gets photos of himself on jet skis with ladies.
John: But I'm looking at Elon Musk, and I'm picturing a chin beard, and it's not hard to picture.
John: You know what I'm saying?
John: Like he might be a shaved pan man.
Yeah.
Merlin: I think – I don't want to upset anybody, John, but I got to tell you, I think German accent still reads a certain way to Americans.
Merlin: I think the much more evil-sounding accent to me is the Dutch accent.
John: Or the Dutch accent as transmogrified through the South African language.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: Yeah, when you hear those guys talk, man.
Merlin: Did you ever see that movie with the giant bugs from South Africa?
Merlin: What was it called?
Merlin: District 9?
John: Is that what it's called?
John: I did see it, and it was an example of a movie that I really liked the writing.
John: I liked the premise.
John: I liked everything about it except...
John: The design of the space bugs was, to me, biologically implausible slash impossible.
John: The prawns.
John: The prawns.
John: The prawns.
John: The skeletal structure of them seemed to have been designed by a video game comic book artist and not by somebody that had a grounding in biology.
John: And so it was like...
John: I did not feel from the moment they came on screen that anything would actually evolve in that shape.
John: It felt like a thing that was designed by a teenager to look cool rather than designed by somebody who primarily was thinking, how would a thing evolve?
John: If a prawn was going to become bipedal, how would that look?
John: And I did not feel like it would look like that.
John: And so the whole movie...
John: which I otherwise enjoyed, every time those things came on screen, I was like, you know what?
John: No.
John: No.
Merlin: Fuck you.
Merlin: You didn't think the little baby was cute?
John: Little baby prawn?
John: You know, cute baby prawns, that's not why I go to movies.
John: Yeah.
John: You know, when the alien came on the screen in... The titular alien.
John: The titular alien in the film Alien...
John: Like, maybe not any more plausible, but at least believable.
John: Realistic, right?
John: You looked at it and you were like, ugh, yes, I could see.
John: This is kind of like a cockroach, lizard, dinosaur.
John: Dragon.
John: H.R.
John: Geiger, dragon.
John: Yeah, but very otherworldly.
John: Otherworldly, scary, but also like the things about it that were scary were like...
John: were meaningfully scary.
John: It was slimy.
John: It had teeth and then more teeth.
John: It felt like a thing that could live.
John: But the prawns in District 9 felt like a CGI thing.
Merlin: fake monster yeah and you know lots of people have talked about this especially with regard to things like alien and jaws but one thing that makes those kinds of monsters so successful is that they don't get that much screen time you don't get that much time to see them in the baking hot sun of johannesburg for 15 minutes at a time there's something much more i mean so much scarier in some ways that you so i mean there's i think there's that one scene at the end where
Merlin: where she's in her underwear, where you can kind of see what the thing looks like, and it kind of looks like a guy in a suit.
Merlin: You're talking about an alien?
Merlin: An alien, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Well, I mean, you know, there's nothing about the Jaws shark that looks...
John: like a shark when you look at it.
John: Right?
John: It looks like a paper mache shark.
John: Looks like a bath toy.
John: Yeah.
John: And yet, that's a scary movie.
Merlin: Yep.
Merlin: Scary movie.
Merlin: They had lots of technical problems with the various sharks.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: It was a huge thing.
John: I've read the IMDb.
John: Have you?
Yeah.
John: It's frustrating.
John: You know, my problem with the District 9 guy is not his face.
John: It's not his... It wasn't the personality of the guy.
John: It wasn't the little lobster claws.
John: It was the joint between the backbone and the hip bones.
John: Right?
John: That kind of, like, exaggerated...
John: where the pelvic bone into the hips, it just looked like they had designed a thing, and then they tried to make it cooler by cantilevering its hips in a way that was just like, you know what?
John: That was not necessary, and I don't like it.
John: It's not believable.
Merlin: I like the angle of the guy getting the hand, though.
Merlin: I thought that was pretty cool.
Merlin: Yeah, that was good.
Merlin: Yeah, okay, I see what you're saying.
Merlin: You know what I mean?
John: Like, it just feels like a little bit like, uh-huh, yeah, okay, I get it.
John: I get it, robot fetishist.
Merlin: Well, you know, just so you're ready, when your daughter's old enough, the ants in a bug's life, I got four limbs.
Merlin: The ants have four limbs.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Well, it's like a Jerry Seinfeld ant, right?
John: It's like a crossbreed.
John: What?
John: Half Jerry Seinfeld, half ant?
Merlin: You might be confusing it with ants, with a Z, which I think is the Woody Allen version of Bugs Life.
Merlin: So there's bug lives and there's ants.
Merlin: Which one is Jerry Seinfeld?
Merlin: I think it's pretty definitely not a Bug's Life.
Merlin: You got your Kevin Spacey's, you got your Dave Foley's.
Merlin: Oh, you know who you got?
Merlin: You got Elaine from Seinfeld that's in it.
Merlin: She's the princess aunt.
Merlin: Bug's Life is pretty great.
Merlin: It's a pretty great movie, but even though I like to think of myself as not being that guy, I still kind of wish they had six legs.
John: Oh, I see.
John: I thought you were going to say you wish they had Jerry Seinfeld in it.
Merlin: I wish it was an exactly anatomically correct Elaine Bennis.
Merlin: Yeah, I don't... I cannot... I can't watch movies.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Because they're so disappointing.
Merlin: They're so disappointing.
Merlin: Is it ones with lots of buzz or just in general?
Yeah.
John: I mean, the other day I went to see a movie.
John: I went to see the movie The Guardians of the Galaxy.
Merlin: You better not say a bad word.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: You didn't like it?
Merlin: I thought it was great.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: I loved it.
Merlin: I went to watch it again the second it was over.
John: It was really, really great.
Merlin: Don't call me a thesaurus.
John: It was an example of a movie that was great because it was great at every level.
John: And the writing was just good.
John: It was just good, and the casting was good.
John: And when I see a movie like that, and I know everybody has the same experience.
John: When you see a movie like that, you go, well, if you can do that, then why isn't every fucking movie like this?
John: There are tens of thousands of people in Hollywood making movies.
John: Is it really true that only four of them are smart?
No.
John: Or what?
John: Like, all you have to do is see a movie like that and go, okay, well, that's what we should be doing.
John: That's what all movies should be like.
John: So go for it, everybody.
John: That's your standard.
John: If your script isn't as funny, at least as Guardians of the Galaxy, then throw it in the garbage can and don't make the movie.
John: But what do you get?
John: One Guardians of the Galaxy every...
John: Five years?
Merlin: Ten years?
Merlin: I'm a big Marvel fan, and our family has seen all of the mini Marvel movies many, many times.
Merlin: We've seen the X-Men movies, the Spider-Man movies.
Merlin: My daughter's not as into the Spider-Man ones.
Merlin: We've seen all the X-Men movies numerous times.
Merlin: We've seen all the Iron Man movies.
Merlin: I love the Captain America movie, but it's weird how...
Merlin: the movies that i think are most successful of the marvel movies are the more slight ones like the first thor movie which some people really hate i i thought was hilarious because they take the mickey out of thor you know he's not he's not just pretentious when he's pretentious it's funny or like you know obviously the first iron man movie is really great but like you know the avengers is still it's really really good but it's really fucking long and it's it's kind of three movies
Merlin: It's long and it's very self-serious.
Merlin: The whole middle part, for a long time, we don't do this as much now because we don't watch it as much, but we're watching a lot.
Merlin: We would watch basically up to the point where they start arguing with each other, skip the entire middle hour, and then go straight to the Chitauri attacking because that's where the fun is.
John: Well, except that I felt like that was the first in a long series of movies where hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people died in collateral damage and very little attention was paid to them.
Merlin: Well, you know, Hawkeye and Black Widow are on the ground trying to help.
Merlin: But, you know, it's funny.
Merlin: Some weak-ass characters on the ground running around trying to save two or three babies.
John: Let me open that bus window for you.
John: While the whole building's full of people are tumbling down.
Merlin: That's a lot of people's beef with Superman.
Merlin: I couldn't even watch that.
Merlin: We walked out.
John: That was so terrible.
John: It was a terrible movie.
John: But the one I want to contrast Guardians of the Galaxy with is that
John: Pretty terrible Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie, which had, as I was watching Guardians of the Galaxy, I was like, this is exactly the tone.
Merlin: Can I ask a question and point of information?
Merlin: Yes, go ahead.
Merlin: Going into this, you get that those are super peripheral characters historically.
Merlin: How familiar were you with the characters and the general mojo of Thanos and all of that?
Merlin: How familiar were you with that part of the Marvel mythology?
Merlin: Let me put it to you this way, Merlin.
John: What's nice for me about the Marvel Comics universe is that they are all peripheral characters to me.
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John: When I went to see the Avengers, I was like, where's the stretchy guy?
John: When does the stretchy guy come in and the silver surfer?
John: Why isn't the silver surfer here?
John: Like peripheral comic characters are everybody that's not Spider-Man and Batman.
John: to me like even Green Lantern seems he's super peripheral or whatever I mean like and I couldn't tell and the thing is like Hodgman spends a lot of time trying to school me on the difference don't get him started on Darkseid don't ask Darkseid versus Thanos don't get him started and I'm like which one has which one has the Julie Doucette comics in it because I don't give a fuck
John: So when I went to see the Avengers, I was like, okay, all these people are in the same world.
John: All right.
John: And there's a flying aircraft carrier.
John: And then the guy from Pulp Fiction's in this one.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: And, uh, there's a lot of like, uh, this guy's from the, this guy's from world war two and this guy's from another, he's a God on another planet.
John: Like, wow, you guys will really watch anything.
Um,
John: So when Guardians of the Galaxy came out and I was reading all the stuff and they were like, these are some really peripheral characters.
John: I was like, oh, my God.
John: And when I saw the raccoon, I was like, why isn't this raccoon the star of all media?
John: Why is every movie not about this raccoon?
John: And the dude, the... Groot.
John: Well, not Groot, no.
John: Groot was interesting.
John: I liked Groot.
John: I never had a problem with it.
John: But the dude, the... Star-Lord.
John: The Star-Lord.
John: Like, the casting of this guy.
John: When he first appeared on screen, I was like, oh, here's a pretty boy actor.
Merlin: It's that guy from that thing.
John: He's 28 years old.
John: And then I realized he was the guy from...
John: Zero Dark Thirty, which is a movie that I really like.
Merlin: Oh, wow.
Merlin: You're right.
John: He played the Navy SEAL in Zero Dark Thirty.
Merlin: I think of him as the doofy guy from Parks and Rec.
John: Well, see, I have never watched that show, except I've seen it on an airplane a couple of times.
John: But he usually plays a doofy guy.
John: He plays a doofy guy.
John: Well, but in Zero Dark Thirty, he was the guy that gave me the real insight into Navy SEAL culture that I did not have before.
John: That great line that she says when they're looking at the Black Hawk helicopter at Area 51, and they're like, what's the plan?
John: And the CIA lady says, you know what?
John: I didn't even want to use you guys with your dip and your Velcro and your zip straps.
John: And they all kind of look at each other like she's slamming the Navy SEALs as being a bunch of redneck dipweeds.
John: And I was so excited by that scene in the movie.
John: I was like, yeah, the CIA gal is calling the Navy SEALs a bunch of dipweeds.
John: i love it and and they really played and this guy in particular played that character of like he's he is the the he's america's like that he's the tip of the spear but he's also a redneck dipweed and that makes so much sense to me that the tip of our spear
John: are a bunch of dipweeds.
Merlin: I really appreciate that.
Merlin: They're all really smart at dealing with the implementation, but you wouldn't want to ask them a lot of super high-level strategy stuff.
John: Yeah, they're great at working the gears of the gizmos that they've been given.
John: They're basically exactly the people that I imagined populating the world of Cobra
John: In the G.I.
John: Joe universe, back when I was fighting little wars between G.I.
John: Joe and Cobra in my bathtub, long past the point where I should have stopped playing with those toys in the early 80s.
John: Anyway, long way of saying that that particular actor cast in that role, he had all of the kind of like swagger, like kind of dumb swagger of Han Solo.
John: But he was just like, he was charmingly dumb.
John: But then he also like was a good fighter and a good, he was a funny actor.
John: I just thought that movie was wonderful.
John: Zero Dark Thirty.
Yeah.
John: That one, but also Guardians of the Galaxy.
John: Right, right, right.
John: And I felt like part of my problem with our culture is this insistence on all these fantasy universes that feel kind of charmless and even gormless.
John: Like, this is a world you want to live in, this fantasy world.
Merlin: way over thought way over engineered and but i mean with guardians of the galaxy i mean it's you know i was really looking forward to it because i like the comic um i like those the characters are very fun to me my daughter loves them but you know it was such an improbable like when you've slogged through something like iron man 3 or whatever it's like you know it's good i mean robert downey jr has redefined that character he's great he's so yeah i don't know if you've seen any of those but the first one's like particularly really good but
Merlin: You know, really well done, but like this improbable combination of characters, even comic fans may not be familiar with, with this totally wackadoodle, you know, far out cosmic story that's kind of hard to follow.
Merlin: The casting, the script, the script, which had, if it had been a little bit more clever, would have been too clever.
Merlin: Too clever.
Merlin: That's right.
John: There was never a moment in the film because I'm always watching.
John: Yeah.
John: For the moment where, in order to make something happen in the script, they violate some core laws of gravity.
Merlin: Or how people actually communicate and things like that.
John: And at no point in the script did anybody have to violate any universal laws.
John: It all just seemed like, sure, of course, like...
John: There's some fantastical stuff happening, but I am – I believe in gravity still.
John: I believe in – I believe that light goes fast.
Merlin: Yeah, but also there's some people like – I think about people like John Woo or –
Merlin: Guillermo del Toro there's these certain kinds of directors that make these movies that are on the face of a completely implausible but I buy into it because they pull it off they pull off what they intended to pull off which is this crazy adventure and like in this movie even through the last maybe the end of the second act gets a little bit of a slog with the friendship and the friendship but you know what I buy it do you like karate movies where people are walking on top of trees yes
John: You like karate movies where people jump up in the air and are capable of flipping around six times?
Merlin: When they're well done.
Merlin: If you watch something like, not even just Crouching Tiger, but something like Ip Man or something like, yeah, I do.
Merlin: I like those kinds of movies.
Merlin: When they're done well.
John: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Merlin: Or there's one called Hero.
Merlin: Have you ever seen Hero?
Merlin: I think I recommended that to you.
Merlin: That's one that I think really stands out.
Merlin: What's your feeling on those wire, what do they call them, walking wire training movies?
John: Well, you know, when I saw Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, that was the first time I ever saw somebody, and saw it as a plot point, that using the ancient Chinese secrets...
John: you could conceivably walk out on the end.
Merlin: You could sashay across intangible objects.
John: To the top of a 40-foot thing of bamboo and just stand up on the top of it on top of a leaf.
John: And I was like, whoa, okay.
John: If I'm going to watch a movie with wizards in it,
John: That isn't any greater of a suspension of disbelief than this.
John: So I'm along for the ride.
John: Like, absolutely.
John: I liked that movie a lot, and I was along for the ride.
John: But what it did was it opened the floodgates.
John: For every action movie to have just normal people where no supernatural skill is involved... Oh, like because you're angry enough and care enough, you can suddenly win a bar fight with five guys?
John: Or you can jump 60 feet from one building to the next, or you can run up a wall and flip over, kick two guys in the middle of the air, fire your guns, and land on...
John: And then land on a piece of bamboo and all you are is Bruce Willis.
John: And it's like, no, no, that is that is that has that crouching dragger crouching dragger hidden dragon introduced into in the same way that the Matrix did introduced into the world.
John: A filmmaking technology that was immediately adopted by people with no imaginations.
John: Right.
John: And it just turned that whole genre into kid garbage.
John: Kid garbage that we're feeding kids that are turning them into garbage adults.
John: Kid garbage.
John: Kid garbage.
John: People believe things are real that are not real.
Merlin: I've said this before, but I think of it a little bit like a Joni Mitchell problem, where like, you know, man, if you can't get into Joni Mitchell's album, Blue, I can't help you, because I think it's just about perfect.
Merlin: But for the love of Christ, think about how many dozens and dozens of people, or Buffy St.
Merlin: Marie or whoever, somebody with that trilling folk style picked it up, and you're like, just please stop doing that.
Merlin: Somebody's done it, they've done it very well, you can learn from that, but please stop doing that.
John: Please stop doing that.
John: Don't you think?
Yeah.
John: Well, I have this problem a lot because I'm often asked to consult with young songwriters.
John: People say, hey, I've got this young songwriter and I would love you to listen to their demo and talk to them.
John: And the number one
John: My number one thing that I have when listening to demos is, and oftentimes I will be very pleasantly surprised, 20-year-old singer who has great songs, interesting lyrics, really good song structure.
John: The number one thing I say is, please stop singing like that.
John: Why are you singing like that?
John: Like an affected style?
John: And every young vocalist now is singing in an affected style.
John: Either really preppy, or all the way back in the back of their throat, or like with the trills, or kind of, you know, 60s folk, or like none of them can just sing in their voice.
John: Because no contemporary singers sing in their voice.
Merlin: Most of the people that they're trying to affect were singing in some version of their voice.
Merlin: You know, I mean, somebody who was doing that, trying to just straight up ape Jim Morrison, you know, wouldn't have caught on.
Merlin: You've got to have your own take on that.
John: Right, but that is no longer true.
John: Music now is such a jigsaw puzzle of influences, and I'm fine with that in the songwriting, and I'm fine with that in the production of albums, but I'm astonished that singer after singer after singer...
John: come to me with these voices that are just like, you are just pretending to sing like somebody.
John: And they will look at me very earnestly and say like, that's my style.
John: What are you talking about?
John: Like, that's the key to my whole style.
John: And they really do feel like that of all the things that they were hoping that I would tell them to change, of all the things that they are willing to change, their vocal affectation is what they think is their style.
John: And for myself, when I think back to my early days of singing, sometimes I wish I had affected my voice a little bit more.
John: Because I hear guys all the time, my age, who sing with a little bit more gravel in the voice.
John: And I go, yeah, if I had a little bit more of that, maybe I would be more... Maybe I would be...
Merlin: part of a tougher tradition which is something i kind of i can't think of anybody that you're singing reminds me of when people compare the long winters to other bands i'm frequently flummoxed because i just don't i don't hear it either in the songs or in the style there's that somebody maybe was a terrible all music review a million years ago was saying he sounded a lot like rem
Merlin: And I can hear some R.E.M.
Merlin: in, like, some R.E.M.
Merlin: in instrumentation, but I don't hear it at all in the songwriting or the performance.
John: And, you know, Michael Stipe is an example of a guy who's singing like himself.
John: I mean, you know, he sounds like him.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: I think Bono had a big influence.
Merlin: I think there's still a lot of people today that are, I mean, it just seems like there's so many people today that really are selling, they're still doing a version of Bono circa war.
Hmm.
Merlin: I mean, that's like Coldplay or The Killers or somewhere between Bono and maybe a little bit of Morrissey.
Merlin: There is a certain kind of plaintive style that is way above the caliber of the music and the lyrics in terms of its affect.
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
John: Well, and that's, you know, and that's like what people hear is the sound of stadium rock.
John: But the one that confuses me, I think, is the confuses me the most is the Joni Mitchell voice or I mean, I understand the Christina Aguilera voice.
John: Because that is a kind of, that's a version of stadium rock, I guess.
John: You know, like where it feels like the song isn't very interesting, so let's put in a lot more notes.
John: Like acrobatics and sizzle.
John: Yeah, let's go from one note to the next.
John: I think Mariah Carey really helped pioneer that.
John: Yeah, she was the, she's the original war criminal.
John: But the weird folk, like the Joni Mitchell voice, the super in-your-head voice, the way, way back in the back of your throat voice, the up-in-your-nasal-cavity voices, these are the ones where it just feels like, what are you afraid of?
John: Why don't you just sing...
John: Like in your voice.
John: And I mean, time and time again, I'm just looked at with these blank faces until I kind of am inhibited now to even say something.
John: When I hear somebody singing in a fake voice, it feels like one of those things where I'm the guy from old fashioned town.
John: I was like, why are you singing in your fake voice?
Merlin: They were expecting you to sit down with pencil and paper and talk about couplets and minor chords?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Like, look at the song, how the song could be stronger, better bridge, that kind of thing?
John: And I definitely do that type of thing, but the thing that keeps me out of their music more often than not...
John: It's just that they're doing it in this style.
John: And I mean, and I guess if you were a young metal singer in 1980, and you came out and went, like, that was the style of the music you were making, and you perceived that to be necessary to the music you were trying to do.
John: And so it was in the style that you thought you belonged.
John: Maybe not...
John: how you would have sung if you had come up in a perfect vacuum.
John: But these weird folk voices and weird head voices that people sing in now, I guess maybe it's either that I don't perceive...
John: I don't see a musical vein or a tradition that maybe they see.
John: Maybe they see themselves as descendants of Joni Mitchell in a way that is incomprehensible to me.
John: I'm not sure.
John: But this intrudes more often than not.
John: And back in the indie rock days, it was just that everybody was whispering.
John: All the boy singers were singing...
John: Quiet and Faye.
Merlin: I think, yeah, like you think about the stuff that came along, and again, I followed music closely in a while, but in the 2000s, I'm thinking of like an iron and wine, kicking it off kind of, you know, real whispery, or even, but you know, but then you also get stuff like you get the Mark Eitzels, and you get the, you know, the Red House Painters, and that kind of stuff, which was much more like plaintive, but that kind of became a thing when you were first putting out records, was the whole whispery bearded guy.
Merlin: Yep, it did.
Merlin: It's still kind of a thing, right?
John: Yeah, I was not ever really... Obviously, I loved some of that music, but I did not feel akin to it because it felt like, why are you doing that?
John: Some of it's pretty gimmicky.
John: Yeah, right.
John: And it has... I mean, it's not as bad as the Eddie Vedder voice, but it just feels like, is this song...
John: Would this song, if you just sang it straight, would it still be an emotional song?
John: Right.
John: If not, then singing it like you are whispering it through the electrical outlets in your prison cell...
John: to the guy in the prison cell next door, it's a song about fucking nothing in the first place.
John: So whispering it to make it seem intense is pretty lame.
Merlin: And they're probably very grateful for your input, though, right?
Merlin: The young people?
Merlin: Everybody wants to hear what I think.
Merlin: Thank you, John.
John: Thank you for your help.
John: The number one thing that young people want to hear is the advice of a guy whose band they've never heard of.
John: who is old and who does not phrase things very nicely.
John: That's what young people want.
John: You can always go to Chris Walla anecdotes.
John: Nobody knows who he is anymore.
Merlin: Oh, snap.
John: Anymore, the young people... It moves fast, John.
John: It's moving really fast.
John: We've had this conversation before.
John: They only listen to electronic dance music now.
John: They do not care about rock.
John: They don't care about guitars, Merlin.
John: The guitar is the clarinet.
John: Of 2025.
Merlin: I was watching a BBC documentary on Love Me Do.
Merlin: It's kind of about 1962.
Merlin: It's kind of about the leading up to and the making of and release of Love Me Do.
Merlin: And they were reading back some of the rejections that Brian Epstein got from the labels, which I'm sure you've seen and heard.
Merlin: But, you know, the Beatles will never succeed in pop music.
Merlin: Guitar music is on the way out.
Merlin: They were wrong that once.
Merlin: They were wrong then, but now... You get a power book and you show up and you take your shirt off and dance around a little bit.
John: There was a time when the violin was the number one instrument.
John: And not anymore.
John: And there was a time when it was the clarinet and not anymore.
John: And young people look at guitars and they're like, yeah, I can make every single sound that a guitar can make on my iPad with the 25 programs I have.
John: And I don't even like the sounds guitar makes, so why would I do it?
John: Here's what I want to hear.
Merlin: Put that through your de-esser.
Merlin: Oh, sorry.
Merlin: I'm working on it.
Merlin: I'm working on it.
Merlin: I'll de-ess it.
Merlin: Will you go back and retroactively de-ess everything?
Merlin: I don't think I even know what that sounds like anymore.
Merlin: I know I'm bewildered.
Merlin: I'm bewildered when I put on the radio sometimes.
Merlin: Sometimes I get it.
Merlin: Sometimes I get it and I enjoy it.
Merlin: I learn about music now mostly from trailers to movies.
Merlin: Because we'll go and my daughter and I'll see a movie.
Merlin: Every kid's movie now, in the trailer, you hear some kind of a hit song, often involving someone called Pitbull.
Merlin: And you hear a Pitbull.
Merlin: Katy Perry.
Merlin: Katy Perry.
Merlin: As produced by Pitbull.
Merlin: She seems like she's got some chops.
Merlin: Katy Perry?
Merlin: She seems like she's pretty heavily processed.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: A lot of sizzle.
John: She's got some heavy... She's got heavy chops.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: I should watch that movie.
John: Which one?
Merlin: Heavy chops?
Merlin: Oh, there's a look at her on heavy chops.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Ron Jeremy.
Mm-hmm.
John: Yeah.
John: Katy Perry is one of those people that empirically ticks a lot of boxes for me.
John: If you looked at somebody and were like, does she have dark hair?
Merlin: I don't have a problem with Katy Perry, I got to tell you.
Merlin: Of all the people.
John: Yeah, big eyes.
John: Big bazooms.
Mm-hmm.
John: Good dancer?
Merlin: Yeah, funny videos.
John: But I do not, but I just, I feel like she's not 100% of a real person or something.
John: I don't know.
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: Do you remember that show, Everybody Likes Raymond?
John: Yeah, sure.
John: You know the wife in that show?
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: Is that Leah Thompson?
Merlin: No.
Merlin: No, it's that Scientologist lady, right?
Merlin: Oh, she's a Scientologist.
Merlin: Let me double check.
Merlin: Sorry.
Merlin: You know what?
John: We're going to cut all this out.
John: You know what?
John: That may be it.
John: That may be what I'm talking about because she's an example of a TV star that I would look at.
John: I would watch that show and I would look at her and I would say, M...
John: I attracted to you.
Merlin: Oh, I'm thinking of King of Queens, maybe.
Merlin: Oh, I'm very attracted to her.
Merlin: She's a Scientologist, for sure.
Merlin: She's the one that tried to find out what was going on with David Miscavige's wife, remember?
John: That's right, and that bounced her out of Scientology because they were so mad at her that it changed her religion.
John: because wow right yeah but even if they let you stay in you gotta like go go live in a mobile home and scrub toilets and stuff you read that book right yeah do you notice how often that happens though that somebody will leave a religion only after the people in that religion get super mad at them
Merlin: it's yes it's crazy that like you could be such a true believer for so long in something that is so where you know it's way beyond all your family going oh my god what has happened to you we're like you're even when you become just a little bit of an insider just what you would know about that shit and still be hanging on to it it must take it takes a lot to get somebody to want to leave that it's really weird don't you think it's pretty weird it
John: It doesn't.
John: The reason that I'm interested in it is I'm trying to figure out exactly how to structure my own culty religion-slash-futuristic society.
Merlin: You've got to think ahead.
Merlin: There's a lot of planning, and you want to get the scale right.
Merlin: For example, don't say that OT3 is the highest you could go.
Merlin: Now, luckily, that's a numerical system, right?
Merlin: So you can always add the forefront.
Merlin: I think for a long time, 3 was as high as you could go.
John: And then they discovered, like in a cavern, some new tablets.
Merlin: LRA started adding bonus levels.
Merlin: You fight a boss Scientologist and you move up, you become a four.
John: So he was still alive at that point.
Merlin: He was still strapping on levels, I think, when he was living on the boat.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
John: Boy, that's a hell of a book.
John: You're talking about the big book, Dianetics?
Merlin: Yeah, I never read it.
Merlin: Never read it.
Merlin: I read Going Clear.
Merlin: I didn't read Dianetics.
John: Watching that movie with the old Philip Seymour Hoffman, I was impressed with his portrayal of Elrond as being somebody who just got really petulant like a big diaper baby.
John: Whenever somebody pointed out even the smallest sort of inconsistency.
Merlin: We should mention, for legal reasons, that that is a Romana Clay.
Merlin: He is not portraying L. Ron Hubbard.
Merlin: And we're grateful for the support of the Scientologist community.
Merlin: Thank you very much.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: Thank you to all our Scientologist listeners.
Merlin: Now, would you want a Scientologist on the moon?
Merlin: Don't overthink it.
John: Would I want one?
Merlin: Absolutely.
Merlin: Would that be a good faith to send to the moon?
Merlin: Sure.
Merlin: Of course.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: Their eyes are open.
Merlin: If you've reached – I don't want to say too much because it's copyrighted material, but I think if you get to an OT5, an OT6, you're going to be ready for seeing all kinds of shit that most people would be really blown away by.
John: Yeah.
John: Basically, any religion that Germany has outlawed I think belongs on the moon.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: That might be good right there.