Ep. 234: "Boo Hoo Hoo"
Merlin: Hello.
Merlin: Hi, John.
Merlin: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: How's it going?
John: It's going pretty good.
Merlin: Happy Monday.
John: Happy Monday.
John: Boy, I wish that I had Bez here to really make this a happy Monday.
Merlin: Hype man.
Merlin: Everybody needs a hype man.
Merlin: That's right.
John: That's right.
John: Is the outside frame in the trunk right?
John: Yes.
John: Is that happy Monday's line?
John: Are the wheels big?
John: What?
What?
John: No, I don't know anything about that.
Merlin: Oh, oh, oh.
Merlin: That's the Vine Lady.
Merlin: Yeah, that's the Vine Lady.
Merlin: I'm sorry to bring her back up.
Merlin: Oh, man.
Merlin: If you know other great things I should know about before they're going away, let me know about them.
John: Okay, I will.
John: How about...
John: American democracy.
John: I'm wearing noise-canceling headphones, which I've never had before.
John: You probably can't hear anything I'm saying.
John: It's really weird.
John: All I can hear is what you're saying.
John: I can't hear any other sort of background noise, and boy, is it disconcerting.
Merlin: It's disorienting, just, you know, not to go too far behind the wizard curtain, but you are broadcasting remotely from your base in Southern California.
John: I'm in sunny Southern California where it is pouring rain.
John: And so I always try and forget one thing.
John: You know me.
Merlin: Excuse me.
Merlin: One and only one thing.
John: I try to forget one key thing.
John: I don't want to forget multiple things because that would seem like I was... That's just careless.
John: Yeah, careless or unprepared or didn't know what I was... But you like to keep it lively.
John: Yeah, so a lot of times what I'll forget is my power cord.
John: uh this time i forgot my headphones sometimes i forget just the simple like usb cable that goes between things uh but yeah so anyway i'm borrowing these um noise cancelling headphones and it's really as far as i know there are like ambulances going by right here in the room and i wouldn't be able to hear them because the noise was been cancelled
Merlin: You sound thoughtful.
Merlin: You sound, not muted would be a term of art, but you sound very circumspect.
Merlin: You sound wise.
John: Thank you for saying that.
John: I'm debating about how to reply to someone on eBay.
Merlin: Oh.
Merlin: Oh.
Merlin: What's going on?
John: Something troubling happening?
John: I've had a couple of, you know, I shouldn't be on eBay, as you know.
John: Nope.
John: I don't belong there.
Merlin: There's a variety of reasons that it is not an ideal use of your time and attention.
John: No.
John: And the thing is, it's not my culture.
John: You know, I don't understand the cultural mores there.
John: And I'm an interloper.
John: I'm traipsing through a very complicated social environment.
John: And so a couple of things have happened, right?
John: There was one time I ordered two things from a person and asked them to combine them in one package.
John: Did I ever tell you about this?
John: I know this is probably too fascinating for this show, but I'm going to dive into it anyway.
Mm-hmm.
John: I wanted them to combine two things into one package, and they sent me an email back that said, I sent you a revised invoice.
John: And so I looked in my email, and there was something from this person that said, pay here.
John: And I clicked on the button, and I paid for one item plus the associated shipping of that one item.
John: And then I wrote them back and said, well, I paid for the one item.
John: Can you send me the revised?
John: And they said, well, I did send you.
John: It's in your email.
John: And I wasn't clear exactly what they were getting at.
John: But then after two exchanges, they said, well, I'm done dealing with this.
John: and hadn't helped me at all and i ended up having to pay for both items and ten dollars each shipping for two things that would fit into a single envelope and so then when it was time to give the the feedback the stars if you will oh boy i wanted to give them zero stars for the shipping because they had done
John: Nothing.
John: Not only had they not helped me, but they'd been really rude.
John: But I noticed that they had 99% approval rating.
John: So I thought, is this something about me?
Merlin: Again, your problem, you're interloping with the mores.
John: Yeah, I didn't know what I'd done wrong.
John: So I wrote them back and was like, hey, I don't know about this.
John: I don't know what happened.
John: I tried to be nice.
John: I was just like, you could put both of these in one envelope and only charge me 10 instead of 20 bucks.
John: No reply.
John: He's done with it.
John: Done with it.
John: So he was done with it after two emails because he'd sent me a revised invoice, he said, which I explained.
John: You got the revised invoice.
John: He's done.
John: I didn't, though.
John: It wasn't revised.
John: It was just like, here's my revised invoice.
John: Fuck you.
John: My revised invoice says fuck you.
John: So, but I didn't want to leave zero stars because I actually like went to leave negative feedback and eBay threw up a like a sign like, are you sure you want to leave negative feedback?
John: You should try and resolve this with the person.
John: This is a serious matter.
Yeah.
John: I was like, oh, shit.
John: Okay.
John: And then I figured, like, he's had 5,000 transactions.
John: He's got 99% positive.
Merlin: You're doubting yourself.
Merlin: You're the weirdo.
John: Well, yeah, not only that, but my rating isn't going to affect my zero stars isn't going to affect his rating.
John: But what if he retaliates?
John: I don't even know if they can retaliate.
John: But what if he gives me zero stars?
John: I don't have that many.
John: transactions, his zero stars.
Merlin: You get a five-star blowback.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: How are we going to keep our phony-blowny puffed-up system of useless ratings going if you're screwing things up with zero stars?
John: Yeah, I don't even know what I'm doing.
John: I'm just some guy bounding in with a bearskin coat on, and I'm like, zero stars!
John: And they're like, you want to see zero stars?
John: Booz!
John: And then I'm like... And then all of his...
John: All the people that wear like satin jackets with his gang name on it are all zero starring me.
John: You know, it's like an episode of Black Mirror.
John: It's totally Black Mirror.
John: Yeah.
John: So I didn't know what to do.
John: So I was like, I got to just, I got to think about it.
John: And I still haven't acted.
John: Well, then a couple of times I ordered stuff and I was, or not, you know, that's the thing.
John: You're not ordering stuff.
John: You're just late at night.
John: A thing goes by.
John: I'm like, I'll bid on that for 30 bucks.
John: Yeah, I'll bid on that.
John: Pow.
John: I bid on it.
John: And then it's like, you won a $30 thing.
John: But it's $50 shipping.
John: Oh, come on.
John: Because the thing is actually in Kuala Lumpur.
John: Oh, Kuala Lumpur.
John: And, you know, a lot of times in eBay, if something's in England, the amount of money will be in italics because you know it's foreign.
John: If it's in Canada, it'll be in italics.
John: But somehow you can sell a thing in Kuala Lumpur, but if you put it in American dollars...
John: It just I'm just so I'm up.
John: I'm bidding on this son of a bitch.
John: But now it's now I won.
John: And I look at the shipping.
John: That's more than what I paid for the thing.
John: And I want there to be a thing on eBay where I can be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
John: You didn't say I didn't see that it was a wall.
John: I'm poor.
John: But there's no like whoa, whoa, whoa button.
John: Right, right, right.
John: I already committed.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You signed a contract.
John: I signed a binding contract with these like multi-star people.
John: So one time I paid it.
John: This most recent time I paid the shipping.
John: It takes a month to ship there from Kuala Lumpur because they put it into like a raft.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: I just checked on eBay today, and they said, oh, yeah, we delivered that package from Kuala Lumpur four days ago, and we handed it to an individual.
John: That's what the sign is.
Merlin: Well, you know it must be true.
John: There's no individual at my house that they could have handed it to.
John: My neighbors wouldn't pick it.
John: I don't want Randy to have it.
Merlin: This is a real thistle.
John: Here's the latest problem.
John: Here's the thing I'm trying to solve.
John: A guy sold me a thing, and when I got it,
John: it had a big x over he had documented some damage on on the item but when i got it it had a big x in sharpie over the tag of the item over the the the tag the like the little upc scanner code no the brand name oh
John: Which I recognize.
Merlin: Oh, this is an article of apparel?
John: Yes, it is.
Merlin: Oh, so it's like a cutout or a remainder.
John: Exactly.
John: It's a factory second.
John: But he had failed to document that.
John: Oh, Jiminy.
John: And so this is another one of these.
John: He had 98% approval rating, so I stewed on it for a couple of weeks.
John: And then I was sitting and I was thinking about this.
John: Oh, what it was was I had bought something else.
John: Obviously, I have a problem here.
John: And the other person that I bought something from was sending me emails like three a week saying, hey, I noticed you hadn't given me any feedback yet.
John: Would you please go on and give me some feedback about the thing that you bought from me that I sent you?
John: I was like, yeah, I bought it from you and you sent it to me.
John: I didn't leave you any feedback.
John: Sorry, but I don't.
John: And this person's just like...
Merlin: really really desperate it feels like it feels like i mean this even happens on amazon like if you buy something through what turns out to be a third party you know marketplace vendor you get this surfeit of emails about how they hope you're really happy with your ramekins and it almost feels like it's just shy of not paying to not go and give a five-star review that is what it feels like like this person was like
Merlin: I don't like that system, John.
Merlin: That's not a good system.
John: They weren't hurt.
John: They were like offended and starting to get rude about it.
John: I bought a thing from you for $90 and it's been a week and a half and I didn't give you any feedback.
Merlin: It's a little bit like from an older time, maybe when we were kids, we always wrote a thank you note.
Merlin: Like, no matter what somebody gave you, it could just be bullshit that did not make your life better.
Merlin: You still had to write a thank you note.
Merlin: It seems analogous here where it's like, you know, and obviously the stakes are higher.
Merlin: In the one case, grandma's going to get her feelings hurt.
Merlin: But in this case, these jackals can't keep up their five-star rating if you aren't there pumping them up.
John: And, well, and the thing is, like, sometimes you order something like a craft or something that someone...
John: Clearly found in a thrift store and managed to sell for $15.
John: And they send you a little note.
John: They send you a little handwritten note, a little doily with some writing on it in your bag.
John: Like, hey, thanks a lot.
John: Hope you enjoy the thing.
John: But this one item that the person was hassling me about was just a thing they bought at a...
John: At a like factory second sale and then sent to me like there's no personality to it.
John: It's not something they just like they bought it for your windbreaker.
John: Yeah, they bought it for $90 sold to me for $94.
John: And they're like, where's my feedback?
John: So I was on there giving this person feedback because I was browbeaten into doing it.
John: And then I looked at this one, the person that had sent me the thing with the X on it.
John: And I went back and I looked at the ad, no mention of the X. And really, it's a very prominent feature.
John: And so I wrote him and I said, hey.
John: You know, I'm here in my office giving everybody feedback today, and I hadn't given you any because, you know, I've been kind of stewing on this.
John: You sent me this thing.
John: I mean, I got a good price on the thing, but I wouldn't have bid on it if I had seen this because I have a policy about factory seconds.
John: It's just something that sticks in my craw.
Merlin: I mean, this is a nerdy comparison, but it's not that different from being a book collector.
Merlin: And unless you were collecting a given edition because it contained an error that was rare, you would reject that.
Merlin: You would say, no, this is crazy.
Merlin: This is not what it appears to be.
Merlin: You wouldn't buy a magazine with the cover cut off.
John: It says, it's exactly like being a book collector and it turns out, oh, you get it down in tiny fine print.
John: It says, oh, book of the month club.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, like an RCA record of the month type situation.
John: Yeah, that's not a collectible first edition.
John: That's a garbage first edition.
John: Steerage, yeah.
John: So I write him and he writes back and he goes, oh, you know, I wondered what that was, but I didn't even know what it meant.
Merlin: Maybe it means the article of clothing is straight edge.
John: Yeah, right.
John: Or maybe it means that somebody sewed a Krugerrand into the lining of it, but I doubt it.
John: It seems like when you're identifying features of a thing and the tag is like very visible in it and it has a huge X through it.
John: Anyway, so I ran it back.
John: It's like, okay, I accept that explanation.
John: But, you know, I do feel like I feel a little bit cheated.
John: And he's like, well, how can I?
John: He said, I'll refund the purchase price.
Ooh.
John: And I was like, by which he meant like send it back to me.
John: And I was like, well, you know, I don't want to go all that whole hog on it.
John: But, you know, like, I don't know.
John: Give me, I don't know.
John: Give me 20 bucks off.
Merlin: And we go back and forth.
Merlin: This is more interesting than I expected.
Merlin: But this is taking a lot of time.
John: To describe this situation?
John: No, no.
John: To actually enact this whole...
Merlin: No, no, no, no.
Merlin: I'm not being meta.
Merlin: I'm saying, like, first of all, if everything goes flawlessly on eBay, you're spending too much time on eBay.
Merlin: And now in addition to that, the post-mortem that you have to perform on your purchases is mental.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: This is a crazy use of your time.
Merlin: Yes, it is.
Merlin: But you are aware of that, right?
Merlin: Well, who knows?
John: Okay.
John: Who knows if I am?
John: We're still working it out.
John: Who are we talking to?
Merlin: Still workshopping.
John: Who's talking to who?
John: That's a really good point.
John: Am I talking to Meme?
Meme?
John: So what was the response?
John: Anyway, so then he says, I'm in the hospital.
John: I can't talk right now.
John: This is eBay, right?
John: I mean, every single person on the other end of the line.
Merlin: So while he's getting his dialysis, he's doing follow-ups on all the people who have not starred him yet.
John: Oh, no, no.
John: He said...
John: I'm sorry I have to interrupt this conversation because I have to go to the hospital.
John: Like he wasn't talking to me initially from the hospital.
John: But there was like three days that was interrupted time because he was in the hospital.
John: And then he got back and I had to be like, oh, are you okay?
John: I was worried about you.
John: And he's like, no, I'm fine now.
John: Thanks.
John: Anyway, let's get back to this.
John: Back and forth, back and forth.
John: And then eventually he says, oh, actually, you know what eBay terms of service are that since you mentioned feedback.
John: That I cannot refund you any money because that is extortion.
Merlin: Oh, you didn't know it.
Merlin: You were on double secret probation the whole time.
John: That's right.
John: And then I was like, oh, well, that makes sense.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: Yeah.
John: Right.
Merlin: Like what are you going to do now?
John: Big shot.
John: Yeah.
John: Terms of service.
John: Like eBay is going to eBay is going to do a Google here and they're reading our emails without us even knowing.
John: Sure.
John: They're they're pulling an Uber and they know where we are even when we're not using their app.
Merlin: They're sending you a FISA letter that you're not allowed to receive.
John: Yeah, that's exactly right.
John: They're filing an injunction.
John: And they're going to injunct me because I mentioned feedback.
John: And now I'm extorting this $20 out of this guy.
Merlin: That's a hell of a system they got.
John: So he writes me back and says, you know, same cheery language.
John: He says, well, why don't we just leave it the way it is?
John: Yeah.
Merlin: I mean, we can all agree on cheese.
John: Yeah, and I wrote him back, and I was like, oh, you mean leave it the way it is where you, like, failed to tell me what the thing was that you were selling me?
John: And now, you know, now I've got a little bit of justice going here.
John: I've got my justice hackles up.
Merlin: So at that point, you just walked away, right?
John: Well, no.
John: So at that point, right before you called, I was composing a justice-based email to him.
John: That was going to set this record straight.
John: And if eBay was reading it over his shoulder, then they were going to know, too, how things were going to be.
John: But mercifully, you interrupted me with your call.
John: Oh, man.
John: And I haven't sent the email yet.
John: You know, and it's like so far there's been a lot of la-di-da talk between us.
John: We've probably sent 12 emails.
John: Oh, come on.
John: So for the $20, right, I'm getting pretty good value.
John: That's like, that's, you know, that's a dollar and change per email.
Merlin: You're exploring a principle here.
Merlin: The total amount that you are out, including shipping, is how much?
Merlin: $100.
John: Oh, okay.
John: So $20 is 20%.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: That's a lot of percent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I'm so glad I don't have a surpassing number of transactions like that in my life.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: You know what I mean?
John: You mean on eBay or in general?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I mean, like specifically, I think one of the things when you look at these different, I'm really avoiding the word community because I think that's not the right word for this, but whether it's a ride-sharing service, grocery delivery, Etsy, eBay, where you are on some level, you may be dealing with a person, but like, so if I go to Safeway and I buy half a gallon of milk,
Merlin: Like, that's a really clear transaction.
Merlin: I get a little receipt for it.
Merlin: And, like, how well the cashier did does not factor that heavily into the purchase.
Merlin: As long as it's not rancid, I take it home.
Merlin: Or, you know, as long as they didn't, like, grossly mischarge me.
Merlin: But if they did grossly mischarge me, I go in and say, hey, look, this is an error.
Merlin: You accidentally charged me twice for this.
Merlin: And they go, hey, no problem.
Merlin: Take it off.
Merlin: Right?
Merlin: It's just there's so much hubris, personality, humanity.
Merlin: Involved in buying a jacket online from somebody, it's so strange.
Merlin: Again, like I say, I do a lot of Amazon shopping, and I tend to prefer buying things directly from Amazon, not least because you get the prime shipping.
Merlin: I've seen what you're talking about.
Merlin: Here's a set of fancy pencils, and if you click the wrong link on the wrong buyer, you're getting the fancy pencils that are going to be $22, and it's $30 shipping.
Merlin: You've got to be careful.
Merlin: It's in parentheses.
Merlin: It's not necessarily Kuala Lumpur, but you do want to watch that.
Merlin: But then I'll randomly buy some USB cable, and I get done by some third-party seller who sends this generic email, obviously through some kind of CMS,
Merlin: That's like bugging me.
John: What's a CMS?
Merlin: A content management system.
Merlin: I don't know if it's Amazon's own system or some kind of third-party thing, but they all look the same.
Merlin: And it's like, hey, I hope you enjoyed your candle that smells like a new Macintosh computer.
Merlin: Make sure to go in and give us a five-star review if beatily-deadily-dee.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: And so, you know, you know how, like, In-N-Out Burger has a secret menu that everybody knows about where it's not secret anymore?
Merlin: Yeah, the grilled cheese.
Merlin: Amazon, word on the street is that Amazon has a secret menu, too.
Merlin: Oh, tell me more about it.
Merlin: Well, for example, I don't mean to change the topic because it is actually on topic.
Merlin: But, for example, if, as in my case, with all due respect to the United States Postal System, you know my history with the post office.
John: Yes, I do.
Merlin: And you know my deliveries are just...
Merlin: I mean, Donald Trump should have a tweet about the disaster, the flaming inner city that is my history with just things just not appearing at the house.
Merlin: Supposedly there's a secret menu where if you know the knock, you can contact Amazon and ask them to, at the very least, I guess, change the cascade of how deliveries are made to always put the postal service at the bottom.
Merlin: But I've heard.
Merlin: Change the cascade?
Merlin: Well, you know how it works.
Merlin: Like it used to be everything was UPS and it was awesome.
John: Merlin, you have to know, I do not know how it works.
John: Like, at all.
John: I was wondering about this before.
John: Because it seems really random.
Merlin: You order something and it comes from three different delivery services.
John: Yeah, what happened?
John: It used to be UPS and everything worked.
Merlin: I don't know the exact history, but the cascade is something that I'm imagining.
Merlin: And cascading, I'm referring here to a term they use in...
Merlin: It doesn't matter.
Merlin: But cascading is this idea that there's this default way that things will happen unless for some reason that one is not optimal or is not available, in which case it falls back to the second choice, etc., etc.
Merlin: Now, one imagines that Amazon has optimized this within an inch of its life.
Merlin: I don't know the exact history.
Merlin: I think one thing that happened was, yes, they used to use UPS for everything, and it was the glory days.
Merlin: It just worked.
Merlin: Everything was fine.
Merlin: From my point of view as a consumer, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it really worked.
Merlin: Glory days.
Merlin: Glory days.
Merlin: Brown trucks coming around.
Merlin: Glory days.
Merlin: And then I think they cut some kind of a deal with the failing U.S.
Merlin: postal system where I guess they got a special deal plus things like Sunday delivery, which nobody else was doing.
John: Oh, Sunday delivery.
Merlin: But, you know, there's this thing that happens if you're an Amazon user where –
Merlin: I'm going to track my deliveries.
Merlin: I'm a tracker.
Merlin: And I'll see, like, oh, good, UPS, like, you know, or like FedEx leaving Memphis.
Merlin: And you're like, ah, awesome.
Merlin: And then you'll see that dreaded, like, transfer to carrier facility.
Merlin: And you're like, oh, I know what that means.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: That means it is now into the leaky maw of the USPS, and we just don't know if it'll show up.
Merlin: I'll learn more about this and report back.
Merlin: All in the service of saying one supposed secret menu thing you can do is you can contact Amazon and tell them, look, I don't want things delivered by Postal Service anymore.
Merlin: Supposedly.
John: I don't know if that's true, but I've heard you can do that.
John: You have a profile that's not visible to you.
John: That's maintained somewhere in the Amazon cloud.
John: And your profile is alterable, you're saying, by a special ops team in a windowless room in Amazon.
John: And if you can get to them and say, listen, I want you to change my profile.
John: I want you to put a gold star.
John: I want you to give me that extra level of access.
John: And they can just be like, hmm, you're a good customer.
John: We like you.
John: Your name's Merlin Mann.
John: My desk mate has heard of you.
John: Yeah, you used to be famous.
John: Yeah, you're the guy with the wallet shoe phone.
John: Guy tossed into his shoe, yeah.
John: Okay, we'll put that gold star.
John: And then all of a sudden, all your troubles go away.
Merlin: There's another one that I have utilized.
Merlin: where I'd heard there's a secret menu where you can contact Amazon and say, hey, I don't want to receive these requests for feedback anymore.
John: What?
Merlin: I did that.
Merlin: They took care of it.
Merlin: And I wasn't getting them anymore until recently when I started getting them again.
Merlin: So I think it's time to go back in and try the secret menu again.
John: At the Kuala Lumpur problem, I actually went on to eBay and asked a question about
John: the eBay community I went on to their message board and I asked a question of the eBay community and someone replied and said if you don't want to see items from Kuala Lumpur all you have to do when you're searching for items is go down to this menu screen go over to this menu screen pull down this screen and select this option
John: And your problems are solved.
John: And it's like, hmm, well, yeah, except that I would have to do that for each individual search that I did.
John: And at four o'clock in the morning, I'm on there searching for Pendleton blankets, Hudson Bay Company jackets, native Alaskan parkas.
John: I mean, all the things that you need.
John: You know, Zippo lighters from Adak Island.
John: And if each one of those I have to pull down six menus to get.
Merlin: Well, it also cuts off your supply chain.
Merlin: There might be stuff where you're willing.
Merlin: Like it could be your ones you don't know.
Merlin: I'm trying to get a little like John Roderick here.
Merlin: If you've got your white whale, if there's something that shows up that you've been looking for for years.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: And it's only available in Kuala Lumpur.
Merlin: You're not made of stone.
Merlin: You might think about that.
John: I might pay $50 shipping if it's the right Zippo lighter from, you know, ADAC Coast Guard Station.
Merlin: Avalanche Brands writes to say, your feedback is important!
Merlin: We just want to say thank you for your recent purchase with Avalanche Brands through Amazon.com.
Merlin: We hope that you are enjoying your Gund Pusheen 18 sticker sheet.
Merlin: As a company, we strive to provide our customers with quality products as well as complete customer satisfaction.
Merlin: Your opinion is extremely valuable.
Merlin: If you have not already done so, we invite you to take a few moments and help your fellow shoppers make their purchasing decisions by providing a review of the products you purchase.
Merlin: It's very simple to do this.
Merlin: Just follow the links below and follow the on-screen instructions.
Merlin: And I could click on Gun Pusheen 18 sticker sheet.
Okay.
Merlin: So Pusheen is a cat, a cartoon cat from the Internet.
Merlin: And this is a sheet of stickers I bought my daughter, not realizing that I would then have homework.
John: Yeah.
John: See, the first one I can find here is from Chuck D. I'm searching for your recent order.
John: This one says Chuck D.
John: 2016.
John: That's their username.
John: Hmm.
John: So their username actually has the year 2016 in it.
John: Sweet.
John: That seems like a dumb way to have a username.
Merlin: Pretty pessimistic approach to your brand.
John: Yeah.
John: Coca-Cola, 1933.
John: But then they have 526 feedbacks, I guess, or transactions, which is not very many.
John: And they have a purple star next to them, which I don't know what that means, but I know that it's not a gold star.
John: And they say, and so I bought from them a Gurkha leather pouch.
Merlin: Is a Gurkha an Indian sword?
John: Well, so a Gurkha is a kind of Indian soldier that is drawn from...
John: Well, that's their distinctive knife.
John: Oh, look at that thing.
John: Look at the Gurkha.
Merlin: But the Gurkhas were like a— Oh, technically it's called the Kukuri, the signature weapon of the Gurkhas.
John: Yeah, the Gurkhas are like a tribe of people who are very, very good fighters, and they were enlisted into the British Army—
John: Like during the colonial period as like ferocious special forces people almost who fought for the British in their various colonial wars.
John: Oh, interesting.
John: They're like, you know, they're kind of like the Sikhs.
John: They are Indians but of a separate form.
John: ilk with a very identifiable sort of set of characteristics that in this case were used in the wars, colonial wars.
John: You'll see the Gurkhas like in World War I. You'll see them fighting in the trenches.
Merlin: That's cool.
Merlin: What are you buying, a wallet?
John: What are you getting?
John: No, it's not a wallet.
John: But Gurkha, the leather goods company, is a New York company.
John: And the legend is that there was some guy...
John: the new york's rich smarty pants who was bidding on who was at an auction at sotheby's and was bidding on the complete luggage collection of a former officer in the british expeditionary forces and he had and they sell some nice bags yeah and they and he had this beautiful set this is many years ago in the 70s he had this beautiful set of luggage that was kind of like um
John: Kind of like the bags, the Louis Vuitton bags in Kundalini Express or whatever that movie was.
Merlin: You're talking about Marley Hodgson back in the early 1970s.
Merlin: Oh, it must have been this guy.
Merlin: Is that when he found himself in an estate sale in the UK where he encountered a rare collection of campaign gear once belonging to a British Gurkha commander stationed in India?
Merlin: Is that when it was?
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: No, you said the jog in my memory.
Merlin: Now I think I remember.
Merlin: Yeah, you're familiar with the story.
Merlin: Sure, Marley Hodgson.
John: Yeah.
John: So anyway, Marley, Mr. Hodgson, we call him, he decided to reproduce these instead of because he lost this auction.
John: Instead, he decided to reproduce these bags in New York City.
John: And so it was a very fancy line of bags.
John: And it was one of the first sort of sets of bags that were met.
John: It was like the patina of the used bag was worth more than a new bag.
John: But then Merlin, as so often happens in these heritage brands, at some point in the 90s, the company was sold to an offshore conglomerate or to a holding company.
John: Basically, it was sold to Mitt Romney.
Yeah.
John: Bain Capital and they changed it and they've started making bags in China and they started making garbage bags
John: And all the people that care about these things, which I am embarrassed to say, I am not one, but I'm adjacent, right?
John: It's a cocktail party and I'm standing, it's a cocktail party at the Red Lion.
Merlin: You've overheard the murmurs of the disappointed.
John: Sure.
John: I'm like walking through, it's the Red Lion in Wenatchee, Washington.
John: I'm walking through the halls.
John: I hear, I look in, it's a big, everybody's got name tags on.
John: I poke my head in.
John: They're talking about
John: heritage brands and i'll put my foot in the room i'll you know maybe i'll take a drink off of a passing tray i'll spend the afternoon there let's be honest yeah i'll talk to those people i want to know what they're all about maybe you're always seeking to learn you want to educate yourself yeah and maybe i'll take a brochure maybe i'll think about filling it out yeah anyway then someone and this happened to my own beloved filson company of three or four different times someone bought
John: Gurkha back from Bain Capital and restored the glory.
Merlin: So we're talking about CBS and Fender.
Merlin: Exactly right.
Merlin: We're talking about Japanese strats here, with all due respect.
John: That's exactly right.
John: It's characteristic of the era.
Merlin: So, I mean, the thing is, you can't just say there's this before and after date.
Merlin: You have to have some clarity about certain models, certain years produced.
Merlin: And there's some subtlety to that.
Merlin: You've learned by being adjacent.
John: There is.
John: And I think there are people out there all the time who order a Gurkha bag on the Internet and then it arrives and it's made in China, but they don't know it.
John: And so they're perfectly happy.
John: They think I have a fancy Gurkha bag somewhere buried down inside an inside pocket, like tucked in the lining as a little made in China tag, but they never see it.
John: And so the, the, uh, the spell is never broken for them.
John: But, you know, for me, I'm the type of person that immediately goes looking for the tag.
John: I can't.
John: I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if it said made in China in it.
John: I would know I'd been rooked.
John: And I had an inferior thing.
John: Anyway, so I do know how to find good Kirk.
John: I do know how to not buy a garbage bag.
John: And so I bought this.
John: It's a nice little pouch.
John: It's not a purse.
John: It's a pouch.
John: It's not a wallet.
John: Because it's the size of a piece of, you know, you can put like a notebook in it.
John: It's like a pouch.
John: Definitely not a purse.
John: It's not a purse.
John: It's a pouch.
Merlin: It's called a folio.
John: Yeah, let's call it a folio.
John: I discovered not very long ago that instead of packing my suitcases by just rolling up my clothes and packing them in the suitcase, that if I rolled up my clothes and packed them in a pouch and then packed the pouch in my suitcase...
John: It gave me more gratification somehow.
Merlin: Oh, this is huge for me.
Merlin: I'm bags in bags.
Merlin: I've done that.
Merlin: It's not Columbia.
Merlin: But one of those companies makes those bags.
Merlin: And I've got a ton of those.
Merlin: Eagle Creek.
Merlin: And so, yeah.
Merlin: No, for me, everything.
Merlin: To me, the idea of putting your clothes directly in a suitcase is monstrous.
Merlin: I use like five or six different bags for all the different constituent parts.
Merlin: And I've got it down to a science at this point.
Merlin: Let's be honest.
John: But at some point along the way, you do have it down to a science.
John: I've seen it in action.
John: But I've decided at a certain point that I was no longer going to use nylon.
Merlin: For political reasons?
John: No, just because.
Merlin: This is an arbitrary aesthetic, not arbitrary, but a personal aesthetic decision.
John: Yeah, because I have so much free time where my mind doesn't have enough to occupy it.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: which is not true i'm actually carving time away he knew projects to think about this but i decided that all the bad all the bags were going to be made out of either jute or hemp or uh you know like woven grass kind of like you get a bamboo bag
John: Or wool, you know.
Merlin: It has to be the kind of fiber you would find on, say, Noah's Ark.
Merlin: There should be something there that's organic in the way it's cradling your clothes in a group.
John: Right, or like sailcloth and canvas, these things.
John: Oh, yeah, that's nice.
John: And then leather, right?
John: So now I'm carrying my socks and underwear crammed into a leather pouch inside my canvas and leather and brass bag.
John: Call you Ishmael.
John: That's right.
John: You're going to be sleeping with a Native American soon.
John: It was the best of times.
John: I'm looking for my Pocahontas.
John: Who isn't?
John: That's right.
John: But the bag...
John: It now weighs, what, 60 pounds?
John: Whereas if I had it all in nylon, ripstop, if it was made in China, it would be half the weight.
John: It would be 30 pounds probably.
John: I'm carrying around all this extra brass and leather.
John: And I don't even know why.
John: You're practically steampunk.
Merlin: I am.
Merlin: You should get some suitcases with gears and whistles on them.
Merlin: I don't know what I'm trying to do.
Merlin: You can get a bespoke leather goggle case.
John: But when I pull up into a hotel and I...
John: You know, I throw my bag down and it's full of all these other bags.
John: And inside those bags are little bags.
John: None of them purses.
John: You know, then down at the very bottom, there's like a sow's ear with a pair of couplings in it.
John: I feel like I'm really living.
John: It's bananas, you know.
John: So anyway, here I am.
John: Anyway, so Chakti2016 wants me – and he or she writes, could you please – there's no pretense of like I'm hoping you enjoyed your product.
John: It's just one sentence.
John: Could you please leave me positive feedback when you get a chance?
John: And then –
John: Second sentence.
John: Thank you.
John: Period.
John: Not even thank you exclamation point.
John: Oh.
John: You know, you'd expect a little bit of an exclamation point there if you're going to.
John: Oh, wait.
John: I'm going back here.
John: Chuck D has sent me multiple emails.
John: The first one was, just confirming you received the item I sent.
John: If so, I would appreciate receiving positive feedback when you get a chance.
John: Happy New Year.
John: Again, no exclamation points.
John: Happy New Year, period.
Merlin: Did you have a Happy New Year?
John: What kind of monster is this?
John: Happy New Year, period.
Merlin: You should write back and let her know how your year's going.
Merlin: They're obviously very interested in how you're doing.
John: Well, wait a minute now.
John: Between the time they sent me that first email, the first email they had 518 purple stars.
John: Then the second email they sent, they still had 518 purple stars.
John: But now the most recent one, they have 526 purple stars.
John: So it seems to be working, right?
John: They've gotten eight more purple stars just in the time between the two emails.
Merlin: Sounds like something you get from a German sex worker.
John: Purple star.
John: Purple star?
John: Yeah.
John: That sounds like something from Eyes Wide Shut.
Merlin: What does the purple connotate?
John: This is eBay, right?
John: This is the problem.
John: I don't know what things mean.
John: I'm not enough in this culture that I can decipher the curious language.
Merlin: The star is shorthand to let you know the number of ratings that person has received.
Merlin: Yellow, blue, turquoise, purple, red, green.
Merlin: Purple, as you can probably guess, 500 to 999.
Merlin: They're working on the red star.
Merlin: Oh, they just bumped up.
Merlin: They just bumped up to purple because they were at 518.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Now they're going for the green belt.
Merlin: Now you get red, $1,000 to $49.99, you get red.
Merlin: Oh, then you get shooting stars.
Merlin: John, you should look at this.
Merlin: This is a lot like your interest in, what do they call that, the generals have on their chest, the ham salad?
Merlin: Ham salad.
Merlin: You get a yellow shooting star.
Merlin: That's $10K to $24.99, turquoise, purple, red, green.
Merlin: If you get over a million, you get a silver shooting star.
Merlin: Whoa.
Merlin: A million transactions?
Merlin: Number of ratings.
John: Oh, a million ratings.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: Whoa.
John: It's interesting, though.
John: Wait, if you give somebody five stars, does that mean that's five ratings?
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: I think that's a rating.
John: Well, but that would mean you'd have a million transactions, at least.
John: Oh, I see what you're saying.
John: And I don't see how you could do that.
John: I don't see how you could have a million transactions.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I'm just here on the eBay page for feedback scores, stars, and your reputation.
John: They just come right out and say it.
John: Detailed seller ratings.
John: You know, people used to commit suicide because their reputation had suffered a ding.
John: I bet they still do.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: I mean, they used to do it more.
Merlin: Oh, here you go.
Merlin: Improved detailed seller ratings.
Merlin: Is the item as described?
Merlin: How is the communication, the shipping time, and then the shipping and handling charges?
Merlin: I think – I don't know.
Merlin: I am not an eBay lawyer, but I think you have a lot of grounds on which to call some of these people on the carpet.
John: Yeah, I know.
John: But what they're not telling you is do those people then – this is the Uber rating question.
Merlin: Oh, this is one of the prisoner's dilemma part now.
Yeah.
John: It's time for some game theory, guys.
John: Oh, are they withholding their rating until I write my rating and then they're going to give me a kapow?
Merlin: Yeah, when they give you the kapow, given your smaller number of transactions, that's a hard kapow.
Merlin: That's going to ding you hard.
John: That's just math, John.
John: I don't want to bear that insult to my reputation.
John: My eBay reputation, Merlin.
John: So let me take a look at my eBay account and I'll tell you what my reputation is.
John: Thank you.
John: I knew you wanted to hear it.
John: Yeah, I got a lot on my mind.
John: Well, let me see here.
John: Okay, so, oh, boy, this doesn't look good.
John: Oh, no.
John: Well, I have a blue star.
John: Blue star.
John: And I have 60 transactions.
John: So I've actually got more than rooster sales.
John: Rooster sales.
John: Oh, no.
John: He has 64.
John: That's even more than me.
Merlin: 50 to 99, you get a blue star.
Merlin: That's the second lowest level.
Merlin: No, no, no, no.
Merlin: I say level.
Merlin: I mean, it's like experience points in D&D.
Merlin: You play more, you get more points.
John: You buy some high-hard boots.
John: This says that I have 100% positive feedback.
John: What?
Merlin: I find that very difficult to believe.
John: It says so right there.
John: Quid pro quo, Clarice.
John: What a weird system.
John: This says I have 186 followers.
John: Who are these people?
Merlin: I can tell you.
Merlin: You made a big show of this, I don't know, seven or eight years ago, about how you were going to sell everything you have on eBay.
Merlin: And we talked about whether you should have a museum.
Merlin: Should there be a curated pamphlet for it?
Merlin: And you made a big thing on here about how you're going to go on eBay.
Merlin: You're starting an entire store on eBay.
Merlin: You're selling everything online.
Merlin: to the right people, and you ask people to follow you on eBay because that's where you would be doing it.
John: No, I didn't.
John: I didn't tell anybody what my eBay handle was.
Merlin: I figured it out.
Merlin: How did you figure it out?
Merlin: I think you just go in and search on somebody's name.
Merlin: I'm guessing you could see.
Merlin: I don't want to have people triangulating here, but that's why you get the followers.
Merlin: People are excited.
Merlin: They're dying to find out, like, are you going to sell, you know, Elizabeth Taylor's panties and whatnot.
John: I see.
John: I see.
John: But there are a lot.
John: You know what?
John: I've got a lot of eggs.
Merlin: What's the eBay equivalent of an egg?
John: It's just a shadowy cameo of a person's head and shoulders.
John: It's an empty shopping bag.
John: And frankly, I have to say, the shadowy cameo appears to be a short-haired person, which seems a little bit gender normative.
John: But...
John: But I have a lot of eggs here, right?
John: People that have never put in any kind of feed.
John: People might have started an account just so they could follow you on this important social network.
John: Oh, but wait.
John: Here's the problem.
John: I'm an egg, too.
John: Oh, jeez, Louise.
John: I didn't know that you were supposed to put a picture in.
John: The call's coming from inside the eBay.
John: You need to go get a picture up there.
John: Too sweet.
John: All right.
John: Now, I'm just going to say this right now.
Yeah.
John: I'm going to tell everybody my eBay because now... Do you want to save this for your other program?
John: No, now I realize that if you have 186 followers, that you could have more than that.
John: Oh, boy.
Merlin: This call started out with the feeling that maybe you were having a realization you were spending too much time on things related to eBay.
Merlin: Does it feel like this gets us closer to that direction or a different way?
John: Well...
Merlin: So there's not your following followers on eBay.
John: There is a new... Just what you needed.
Merlin: Just what you needed.
Merlin: You need a new project.
John: All right.
John: So anyway, I'm just going to say... Please like and subscribe.
John: Hey, guys.
John: My eBay handle is Morgan Rides Free.
John: Morgan Rides Free.
John: All one word.
John: All lowercase.
John: But here's what the thoughtful... Because I'm going to tell you why.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: I deleted Twitter from my phone.
Merlin: Deleted Twitter.
John: 60 stars, 100%.
John: Five or six days ago.
Merlin: Oh, okay.
Merlin: It's kind of dawning on me now.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: You put up a photograph of me on your Instagram, and then you retweeted that on your Twitter.
Merlin: Is this before or after that?
Merlin: Because I got lots of really nice remarks on that.
Merlin: Thank you, everybody.
Merlin: Thank you very much for your comments on my personal appearance.
Merlin: That's super sweet of you.
Merlin: Thanks for sharing that, John.
John: I am still on Instagram.
Mm-hmm.
John: But, and the Instagram ports over to the Twitter.
John: Yeah, sure does.
John: But I'm not using, I am not tweeting anymore.
John: Oh, I see.
John: It's a subtle, such a fine line.
John: Okay.
John: I mean, I haven't, like, I don't even know how I would go in and actually, like,
John: delete Twitter from my life.
John: I don't know how I would do that.
John: Would I log off?
John: Is that how it happens?
John: On your phone?
John: No, on the phone I just deleted the app.
Merlin: You go into settings and you would delete that.
John: Don't tell me how to do it.
John: I don't want to know.
John: But I'm not using it and this is really the first time I have said I'm not using this anymore in the whole time since I first joined it back in whenever 2008 or something.
John: Um, and so it's really been very complex, emotionally complex.
John: Um, because, well, you know, I was a regular user and I had thoughts in the course of a day and I would, I would flag those thoughts as tweets.
John: And most of the time I would just immediately pull over to the side of the road and tweet and
John: If I had a tweet, if I thought a tweet or I would, you know, I would earmark it as a tweet and then later on in the day, try to try to remember it.
John: And a lot of times like be unable to remember it as, as happens, right?
John: Like, Oh, I had a great tweet, but I, but I was interacting with Twitter and have been since 2008, almost, well, yeah, nine years.
John: And I got my news from there.
John: I kept in touch with people there.
John: And I just finally couldn't be there anymore.
John: And I deleted it.
John: And for the last several days, I've had tweets.
John: I've thought tweets.
John: And there wasn't anywhere to put it.
John: And I just let the tweet go, right?
John: Like...
John: If you have a tweet, set it free.
John: If it comes back to you, it was yours.
Merlin: I heard a recent analogy for thinking about meditation and mindfulness, and the guy described it as learning to stand by the side of a busy highway without feeling the need to get into any of the cars.
Merlin: And that reminds me a little bit of what you're saying.
Merlin: It's like you're so used to jumping into every car that goes by or, you know, every 50th car that goes by.
Merlin: It's difficult to stop.
Merlin: It's like that's the way you use it.
Merlin: If your interaction model, if I could make up a term here, if the way you think about using that is like here's where I jump in, it's very difficult to stop.
Merlin: It's even difficult to watch if you know you're not going to participate.
Merlin: It's weird.
Merlin: It's a whole different thing.
John: I'm struggling with the analogy just because I've stood on the side of many highways and haven't ever really felt the desire to jump into a car.
Merlin: You might be a Buddha.
John: Every 50th car.
Merlin: What's that guy?
Merlin: What's his name?
Merlin: Jeff Denham?
Merlin: Jeff Foxworthy?
John: Jeff Danbury?
Merlin: Who's the guy with the puppets?
Merlin: It's the other one.
John: Jeff Daniel.
Merlin: Jeff Daniels.
Merlin: Jeff Daniels, the guy from that Jim Carrey movie.
Merlin: He's also the president in all those movies.
Merlin: With the puppets.
Merlin: You might be a Buddha.
Merlin: You might think it's delirious.
John: If you find yourself asking for the vegan option, you might be a Buddha.
John: The way I run you down.
Merlin: I'm working on a playlist right now of new wave songs, I think, stand the test of time.
Merlin: Partly inspired by our last episode.
Merlin: Just so you know, we'll get back to your very long story about eBay in a minute.
Merlin: But last week I made a playlist for our program of a bunch of the songs that we've referred to, we've referenced, songs we've referenced.
Merlin: We talked a lot about music last week, got some nice feedback about that.
Merlin: And so I took a moment to put together a playlist of some of the things we mentioned, including Sister Golden Hair.
John: Surprise.
John: Oh.
John: Oh, I thought you were saying you were making a playlist of every song we've ever talked about on the program, which would be one hell of a playlist.
Merlin: Yeah, no, that's not a thing I'm going to do.
Merlin: But I did put together that music playlist.
John: How do you feel about Adam and the Ants?
Merlin: Are you trolling me?
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Stand and Deliver was my favorite song for about three years.
John: I was about to say, have you listened to Stand and Deliver for any time recently?
John: Yes.
John: Because yesterday I listened to it.
Merlin: on my phone a couple of times and then i went and listened to lots of adam ant and that was my that was my third place choice for the adam ant song that i would say stood the test of time but i had two above it and i finally had to just pick one and which was the one i was torn between i think i eventually went with kings of the wild frontier
Merlin: Interesting.
John: Good job.
Merlin: Kings of the Wild Frontier or Ant Music both stand the test of time better.
Merlin: I think Kings of the Wild Frontier... I still think Stand and Deliver is a greater pop song.
Merlin: It's an all-time great... No question.
Merlin: But no, I went through it for each of these artists.
Merlin: I'm thinking like, okay, Echo, am I going to go with, you know...
Merlin: They were really hard, because they have a bunch of good ones.
Merlin: I'm going through split ends.
Merlin: I don't want to just pick the obvious songs, but I spent a lot of time on Adam and the Ants, because I like a lot of their songs.
Merlin: But honestly, as much as I love the Prince Charming album, a lot of that...
Merlin: doesn't hold up it's still good but it isn't something where you could put this song on it isn't like you could what was the example i gave the other day something like overkill or something like have you ever heard ted leo and the pharmacist cover uh everybody wants to rule the world uh no it's uh they were on um they were on that you know the av av clip thing where you go in and cover a song it's yeah it's such a rat hole i end up just watching dozens of those their cover of everybody wants to rule the world is so good see now that's a song i think
Merlin: Excluding the slightly dated production sound, but that or even something like Mad World, I think you could put that on for somebody today and they're not going to turn their nose up at it.
Merlin: It still really stands up.
John: I don't know if we've ever really discussed Tears for Fears on this program.
John: Not that I can remember.
Merlin: I'm sorry, I want to help you get back to your eBay stuff in a minute.
Merlin: No, it's all right.
Merlin: We'll get there.
Merlin: I just want to mention in passing, this is something that I'm working on.
John: Well, and I would just interject to say that Tears for Fears is the classic example of a band that at the time, for me at least, the keyboard-drenched 80s production and histrionic vocals, and I will say they sound histrionic.
Merlin: I would say pretentious in the best sense of the word.
John: Pretentious, he's very post-Morris-y.
Hmm.
John: But that Tears for Fears record turns out, when you review it again... The Hurting or Big Chair?
John: Songs from the Big Chair.
John: The big... What was the... The big hit one was Songs from the Big Chair.
John: It's the Big Chair.
John: uh there is no moss on it every song is great is that right it's a great album front to back and uh and you know at the time i was like garbage but uh then i revisited it and it's like tears for fears quality rock group that's so interesting i'll have to go in and re-explore here's what i got so far i got overkill
Merlin: Mad World.
Merlin: I'm torn on this because I might end up going with Six Months in a Leaky Boat, but for Split Ends, I've got the song I Got You.
John: Of course.
John: Sometimes the most well-known song is actually the best.
Merlin: It's a tremendous song.
Merlin: Tomorrow Night by Shoes.
Merlin: Whenever You're on My Mind, Marshall Crenshaw.
Merlin: Now, very controversial, I had to pick a New Order song, and this was very difficult for me.
Merlin: I'm still not 100% sure.
Merlin: I'm going to go with Leave Me Alone from Power, Corruption, and Lies, but I will probably change.
Merlin: Girl You Want by Devo.
Merlin: Kids in America, yeah.
Merlin: Don't Go by Yaz, Kings of the Wild Frontier, Out of Control by U2, Look of Love by ABC, Hanging on the Telephone by Blondie.
Merlin: That's what I got so far.
Merlin: That's the look.
Merlin: Seriously, dude.
Merlin: Go back and listen to that.
Merlin: Sisters and brothers should help each other.
Merlin: It's so good.
Merlin: The production on it is so tight.
Merlin: It sounds so good.
Merlin: Trevor Horn, buddy.
Merlin: That comes on sometimes.
Merlin: Twice a year I'll hear that in a store and I just stop what I'm doing.
John: I had to cover that in a band.
John: It was really hard.
John: You know, It's a Beautiful World is one that can really introduce the novice to Devo.
John: Because it's not too wackadoo.
John: Yeah, it's actually like... If you play Satisfaction, you go, oh, that's clever.
Merlin: That's the one that's always in the YouTube videos of wacky covers.
Merlin: But it's like, that's fun as a deconstruction of that song, but it's not like the song craft you get in some of their... People just thought of them as being this weird band, but their songs are really good.
John: Yes, their songs are good.
John: Their cover of Satisfaction still...
John: It boggles me.
John: Oh, I know.
John: I know.
John: It boggles.
John: I don't understand how it could boggle.
Merlin: But it's like Rite of Spring.
Merlin: It's like one of those things where it's like... You first hear it, you're like, what is this?
Merlin: Now, what do you think of my U2 choice of Out of Control?
John: Well, you know, that's a... That's like... I mean, I...
Merlin: i could have gone with the ones that i i mean out of control is in my top 10 favorite u2 songs of when they were good i didn't want to go with i will follow because that was their first hit i was kind of conflicted about gloria gloria could be in there but out of control to me is like kind of the apotheosis of young like post-punk u2 that i think that i think still stands up is the key part
John: This is the thing about you and me and a few other... You and me and a dog named Boo.
John: And a dog named Bee.
John: Is, you know, everything pre-Joshua Tree seems real.
John: And everything post-Joshua Tree seems unreal.
Merlin: A little bit Hollywood.
John: But like...
John: You know, New Year's Day.
Merlin: I know.
Merlin: I mean, it's pretty good.
Merlin: It's super good.
Merlin: Oh, even something like 40.
Merlin: You take something like you got your bad.
Merlin: I really like a sort of homecoming.
Merlin: I still think that's a fantastic song.
John: My sister was arguing the other day that U2's Stadium Rock, which we acknowledge started around, well, you could say U2 was Stadium Rock from the beginning, but she's like, no, no, no, those first two records, the songwriting's really complicated, and it got all stripped out and streamlined and simplified later for the big, big epics.
John: But the chords and the songs are all really, like,
John: more complicated in Boy and War.
John: Really?
John: That's kind of not how I remember it.
John: That's not how I remember it at all.
Merlin: Out of Control is basically a song... I can hear this to this day, and when I hear Out of Control, think about how it starts out.
Merlin: You know what that is?
Merlin: That's when you hit the three primary harmonics across all the strings on your guitars.
Merlin: It was written around somebody going, oh, check it out.
Merlin: If I hit these three things...
Merlin: You start out doing that little yes thing.
Merlin: You do roundabout.
Merlin: You go ting.
Merlin: What is it?
Merlin: Is it 12-7-5?
Merlin: Is that right?
Merlin: 12-7-5?
Merlin: It goes bong, bong, bong.
Merlin: I think so.
Merlin: Anyway, that's how I started playing it.
Merlin: Anyway, I don't have a point here.
Merlin: I just think that I'm going to have to prey on that.
Merlin: Can I ask you a side question?
Merlin: You recently took a car trip.
Merlin: You visited here and gave me a cello.
Merlin: When you were driving to the drop-off point, what were you listening to?
Merlin: Were you talking or were you listening to music or podcasts or public radio?
Merlin: What were you listening to on the long drive?
John: We were talking and then someone remarked that we had not listened to a single song on the drive.
John: And, you know, so the drive that my my my road trip partners were my 82 year old mother and my 46 year old sister.
John: And we rented a Mercedes.
John: That's how old Susan is?
John: Oh, my God.
John: And we drove to... She looks great.
Merlin: Well, yeah.
Merlin: She's great looking.
Merlin: I don't get much chance to say I really like her.
Merlin: Her energy is buoyant.
John: Please share this with her.
John: It's a buoyant energy, yes.
John: And she seems younger than her years.
John: But if you ever are on the highway with her...
John: and you get into a confrontation with another driver in rural Oregon, for instance, you will see that although she is a very buoyant, ebullient, young-seeming woman, all 46 of her hard road years can come out in one encounter.
John: Some woman in rural Oregon, and that should say enough to anyone from the West,
John: Rural Oregon, that's enough.
John: It's rural juror.
John: It even sounds ugly to hear.
John: We're pulling into a parking spot.
John: They're pulling out of a neighboring parking spot.
John: They are miles away from our car.
John: But somehow they because of their like meth addled paranoid lack of depth perception.
Merlin: They felt the best dependent clause of 2017.
John: They felt like I had come close to their car swiping their car.
John: And, you know, I may swipe the meth mobile.
John: Don't swipe it.
John: And their car is like a Pontiac Grand Am, you know, and I'm piloting my vehicle.
Merlin: You're rolling in the Benz.
John: You know, and I just, I mean, me, Lorenzo, in the Benzo, and we pull into the parking spot.
John: And at no point does any part of my car venture out of the two lines defining my area, right?
John: I'm just like in my slot.
John: I just slotted it in there like a key and a lock.
John: And she's not even in her slot.
John: She's already backed out, but she didn't like it.
John: Something about it she didn't like.
John: And so she honks.
John: It would be so easy for her to just drive away.
John: It would be so easy.
John: You're done.
Merlin: You're done with this transaction.
John: I'm in.
John: She's already out, but she honks.
John: And then, so I look at her in my rear view mirror and she's like literally shaking her fist and screaming like, you almost hit my car.
John: And, uh, and I'm like, you know, and I'm shrugging at her.
John: Like, I don't know what I, I got, you know, I don't know what, what your problem is.
John: I don't know who you are.
John: Why are you even talking to me?
John: Do I know you?
John: That's what I'm saying.
Merlin: Is this your first day?
John: Yeah.
John: And she's like, and she pulls up and my sister's in the backseat and my sister turns around and looks at her.
John: And then puts one hand up under her eye in a kind of like fingers forward facing like light fist.
John: Right.
John: With her thumb.
John: Pointed at her face.
John: And she does the boo-hoo-hoo sign of like shaking the fist back and forth.
John: Like wipes a little imaginary tear out of the corner of her eye.
John: Boo-hoo-hoo.
John: And the little fist gesture is so small.
John: This is what is so devastating about it.
John: She doesn't do a big elbow one.
John: She just puts her hand up there under her eye and just very, very slightly goes...
John: Just a little, like, no llores.
John: And the woman, like, you see the steam coming out of her ears.
John: And she looks at my sister.
John: And my sister's looking.
John: And I can see this from behind, right?
John: Because I've seen this a million times.
John: My sister is looking at her with eyes like the center of the North Pole.
John: Like, her eyes are like the depth of the deepest glacier in Greenland.
John: There's no emotion of any kind.
John: And she's going...
John: Boo hoo.
John: And the woman stops and you just see her realize that she has no, there's nowhere to go now with this issue.
John: It is resolved and she needs to go away now.
John: And she just turns and just drives.
John: And I was like, boy.
John: And, you know, and I'm also like, OK, well, I'm just going to go into the store now because I do not want to get boohooed, you know, like that's not.
John: And it's so it was so small, just such a small little like wipe away a little teeny tear.
John: And the only way that Susan can the only way that she has that.
John: the depth of the of greenland in her eyes is the is the time that she spent in rural oregon and in rural everywhere all that it's just like the the eyes are old you know oh i see not the skin around the eyes that still is young and and and and uh full of you know rose nice nice save it's just deep deep inside deep in the black the burden of all that wisdom yeah it's deep in there rural oregon
John: No llores.
John: No llores.
John: And so ever since then, a couple of times I've caught myself when I'm alone.
John: Just practicing making that gesture.
John: But the problem is I'll do that to somebody and then we'll be in a fistfight.
John: She can do it in a way that the issue is resolved.
John: But for me, it would just start something.
John: The person would be like, what?
John: What the fuck?
John: Yeah, right.
John: Don't cry?
John: What?
Merlin: Yeah, like, is it the opening salvo or the finishing blow?
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: I don't know how to do it.
John: Do you remember the Corgis?
Merlin: I'm going to... I don't... I feel like I don't, no.
John: We're talking about very early 80s and the song...
John: Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, of course.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, and that got covered by somebody.
John: It got covered by Beck.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, I do remember that.
Merlin: Are they?
Merlin: Oh, they're British.
Merlin: Okay.
John: But it's a wonderful, wonderful 80s song.
Merlin: Oh, I'll add that to the list.
John: That's a great song.
John: Yeah, very often forgotten in the list of 80s songs, because even though it was a hit, it didn't make it all the way to...
Merlin: That's one of those songs that's really easy to like, it sits there, it collects dust in the corner of your brain, and you're like, I know I know this certain song, and you don't hear it for 25 years, and then you hear it on the radio, and you're like, oh, yes, this.
Merlin: Yep, that's exactly it.
Merlin: Adding to the list.
Merlin: Blondie's tough, but I think Hanging on the Telephone, which I think is a cover, has a timeless quality to it.
Merlin: Yep, I agree.
John: How do you feel?
John: What's your Flock of Seagulls cut?
Merlin: I mean, I don't have one.
Merlin: I thought about it.
Merlin: I feel like I would need to go back and re-listen to the records.
Merlin: The hits, as much as I enjoy them, I think are more of a punchline.
Merlin: Well, I mean, you mean like Space Age Love Song?
Merlin: Something like that?
John: No, I mean, I find that... You tell me, what's your pick?
John: What's my Flock of Seagulls pick?
Merlin: It's on the list.
Merlin: The list is called New Wave That Still Stands Up, a playlist by Merlin Mann.
Merlin: If you're going to put a Flock of Seagulls, you're going to say to somebody, hey, this is going to blow your mind.
Merlin: You have not heard this song ever, or you haven't heard it in over 30 years.
Merlin: What is your pick to say, I can't believe how well this song still stands up?
John: All right.
John: It is Wishing...
Merlin: Oh, photograph.
Merlin: If I had a photograph of you.
Merlin: Something to remind me.
Merlin: I wouldn't spend my life just wishing.
John: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
John: It's got that drone.
John: It's got that, like, the long, the emotional lift, and then it just deposits you in a state of flying.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: All right.
John: And, you know, the other one, like, I ran in space, love songs.
John: Yeah, they're like, it's 80s, blah, blah, blah.
John: But Wishing is a tune that, you know, that I think survives.
John: I think keeps moving.
Merlin: Corgis and Fluxy Gulls.
Merlin: Those are good choices.
Merlin: because you know part of this is i just i don't want to go with the obvious the start here's how the rabbit hole started before i got to ted leo uh where was i i was watching uh because i got i got youtube on my apple tv now and so i watch a lot of youtube at night because i don't want to watch i'm out of tv shows and i'm darn that many good movies now have you have you purchased youtube red they keep trying to sell this to me it's the best well so what happens on it
Merlin: Well, the only part that there are lots of benefits you get they get the latest hot videos from their YouTube original content partners, which are mostly like 18 year old boys with Macklemore haircuts.
Merlin: But what you get is YouTube without ads.
Merlin: Boom.
Merlin: End of story.
Merlin: And if that means a lot to you, as it does to me, that's pretty great.
Merlin: And some money goes to the artists, which is a good thing.
Merlin: So this is but this is an eel.
Merlin: Yeah, it's absolutely an eel.
Merlin: But it's an eel I take on very happily.
Merlin: But so, yeah, I've been watching a lot of Les Miserables in different guises.
Merlin: And what got me down this rabbit hole, the 25th anniversary Les Mis, oh, brother, that's a thing.
Merlin: They bring out four Javers at the end.
Merlin: They do.
Merlin: Yeah, they sing the Bring Him Home song with four different Javers, all from different generations.
Merlin: It's glorious.
Merlin: Do they do the Masquerade?
Merlin: When you hear the price of pain.
John: Who is that?
Merlin: Is that Altered Images?
Merlin: No, that's Berlin.
Merlin: Okay, what's your Berlin song?
Merlin: Give me your Berlin song.
John: Masquerade could be it.
John: That's a good song.
John: Boy, Berlin.
John: The thing is that what no one takes into consideration with Berlin, the band, is they're actually wonderful.
John: Because you want to...
John: You want to be with Berlin.
John: You don't want to be with the Berlin of the of the Top Gun.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: You want to be way too late.
Merlin: You want you want that EP.
John: Yeah.
John: You want the you know, you want the Metro.
John: You want sex.
John: Yep.
John: You want no more words.
John: So good.
John: And No More Promises.
John: Their keyboard player was really good.
John: But their records... Which one is it?
John: Love Life?
Merlin: Oh, the one where she's like a chanteuse?
John: It is.
John: I think it's Love Life.
John: No, it's like they're a full-on...
John: Oh, she looks like a chanteuse, right, on the cover.
John: And that's the one that has no more words on it.
Merlin: Oh, really?
John: But that record is...
John: it's top to bottom great album it's like very rock and roll there's a lot of like pleasure victim is the one i'm thinking of i'm thinking of pleasure victim but like there's yeah what is that when we make love is on that
John: Um, now, oh, now it's my turn.
John: That's my Berlin track.
John: Okay.
John: Now it's my turn.
John: I got to start writing all these down.
John: Now it's my turn.
John: All right.
John: Cut it.
John: You never let me hurt you again.
John: Oh, that's a, that is a totally cool rock jam.
Merlin: Corgis.
Merlin: Everybody's got to learn sometime.
Merlin: So it all started because of going down the AV Club rabbit hole where the people come in.
Merlin: So every year, AV Club, this is a huge rabbit hole.
Merlin: I'm sure you know about this, but AV Club does this thing for the last few years where at the beginning of some arbitrary period of time, they pick out with the editors and I guess with some input from readers, they pick out 25 songs by 25 bands.
Merlin: And when bands come to visit them at their little tiny studio in Chicago, they come in and they can pick any song
Merlin: on the list that has not been picked yet, and they cover it.
Merlin: And there's some fantastic and very creative ones.
John: They cover it just like they pick it in the studio and then learn it in 20 minutes and cover it?
Merlin: I got a lot of questions about this.
Merlin: I got a feeling, listen, you know how I feel about Ted Leo, right?
John: Yeah, of course.
Merlin: I mean, you really know how I feel about Ted Leo.
Merlin: No, I know that you feel very strongly about Ted Leo.
Merlin: I feel very strongly about Ted Leo.
Merlin: I try not to let this out too much publicly.
Merlin: It's kind of unseemly.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: But I got kind of hard on for Ted Leo just as a thing.
Merlin: But like, I mean, they knew every part.
Merlin: yeah everybody wants to i mean and like of course chris wilson who's maybe one of the greatest drummers in the world the shit he's doing on the hi-hat it's like how did you just come up with that when you think about you think about that weird rhythm and uh everybody seems unlikely that they just pulled that out of there whereas super chunk came in and said well yeah sure we really like in between days and then laura says well yeah also it was the easiest song on the list and they ripped through in between days no problem
John: Right, but there was a list that they had in advance.
Merlin: I wonder.
Merlin: This one band comes in and does Shake It Off.
Merlin: And then every year they do this and they put them out.
Merlin: They're all on YouTube and they're a lot of fun.
John: Did you know that I've done Shake It Off with Ted Leo?
John: That's a great song.
Merlin: Oh, did you do it on the Big Booze Cruise?
John: That's right.
Merlin: So what led me there, though, is something I return to a couple times a year, which is any contemporary, as in the last few years, version of Colin Hay covering Overkill.
Merlin: Not covering, but playing Overkill acoustic.
Merlin: Very good song.
Merlin: Oh, great.
Merlin: But, like, you know, it's funny because the bones of that song are really strong.
Merlin: Yep.
Merlin: Yep.
Merlin: With the crazy, you gotta give the sax guy something to do.
Merlin: But just the bones of that song, which actually reminds me a lot of Def Leppard in some ways.
Merlin: It's got that little ascending, that little chromatic walkdown thing.
Merlin: Be good, be good.
Merlin: Be good, be good, be good.
Merlin: It does a little bit of Hold On Loosely.
Merlin: you know i'm a fan i don't know if you know this about me i'm a huge fan of the chromatic walkdown it's had a big role in my life you know you taught me one the g the gf sharp edc you no no no you taught me the country and western chromatic walk up i got that from alex chilton and from paul westerberg and and also neil young does it in that song you like tell me why
John: Well, yeah, the thing about it is that as soon as you taught it to me.
John: You can't stop doing it.
John: You just do it all the time.
John: I put it all.
John: I put it everywhere.
John: It feels so good to play.
John: I put it in every damn song.
John: It's like, you know what this song needs?
John: Yep.
John: Yep.
John: You can get in C or G, and it feels great.
John: It's so easy to just add a little bit of country-western sassafras.
John: And, you know, as you know, every one of my songs is in G or C. That's the way to do it.
Merlin: The empirically... And the thing I picked up from you, I knew how to do this, but I didn't appreciate it until I heard you do it, is the C with the added low G. Oh, you gotta do that.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: It changes.
Merlin: See, now me, I'm from the old school.
Merlin: I'm more of the when I do a C, I'm going to do the high G, which is a little bit more college rock.
Merlin: But when you do the C with the low G, the rafters are rattling.
Merlin: It sounds so good.
Merlin: It'll be a breeze thing.
John: Yeah, and then I also am always doing the... I don't augment as much as I subtract.
John: I take away.
John: I let any string...
John: In a chord, any chord position where I can take one of the fingerings away and let that string ring, I will play the chord in its normal posture, and then somewhere within the bar, I'll drop a finger out and let a sympathetic string ring.
Merlin: In open positions, in my experience, that generates a lot of nice...
Merlin: pseudo major sevens it does and then you can do a little add-on to that and do a little walkie uppy with your with your yeah if you're on the high strings yeah that gives you some room and and now you sounds like you're playing you're like steve how it sounds like you're playing two things at once you gotta you gotta sound like you're playing two things at once that's especially when you are
John: Especially when you're the only guitarist in the band, which periodically I was.
John: Periodically I was the only guitar player in the long winters.
John: For many years now I've been the only guitar player in my band because I'm the only person in my band.
John: Just by process of elimination.
John: Yeah, now I'm the only bass player in my band too.
John: Yeah.
John: And so, you know, you've got to work with what you've got.
John: And, of course, I'm not what you would call a good guitar player, unlike your good friend Ted Leo.
John: That guy can play the guitar like ringing a bell.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: He's an exceptional guitarist.
John: I am not one.
John: And so I've got to throw all the little chim chimes and jing jangs that I can find in there.
John: Yeah.
John: I put it.
John: I'll put a Jim Chang or Jim Chang.
John: Yeah, I'll put a I'll put a Jim Chang and then go to a Jim Chang and back to a Jing Chang.
John: And people are like, whoa, what did that come from?
John: What along there?
John: Jonathan Colton, of course, would listen and say and he'd tell me what the chords were and why they work together and what and a better chord I could have thought of.
John: But that's why I don't hang around with him.
Merlin: Yeah, no, he's the worst at that.
Merlin: He's a bad person, yeah.
Merlin: His amount of giftedness is off-putting.
John: It's not a turn-on.
John: The thing is that there are a lot of people that you and I know, Berlin, between us, who are very talented.
John: We know a lot of talented people.
John: We know a lot of people with a lot of talent and who have worked hard in addition to having talent.
John: They've worked hard to fulfill their talent, their promise.
John: And those people are really infuriating.
John: Yeah, totally insufferable.
John: I really don't like them a lot.
John: And I wish they would shut up.
John: I wish they would shut up with their talent.
John: I wish they would go have some problems.
Merlin: That's good.