Ep. 335: "Fifteen Things"
John: Hello.
John: Hi, John.
John: Hi, Merlin.
John: How's it going?
John: Pretty good.
John: Pretty good.
John: It's very early.
John: It's early.
John: It's a little bit early for me.
John: It's been a long time since we said it's early.
Merlin: Has it?
Merlin: Hmm.
Merlin: It's been well, it's been a while since it's been this early.
Merlin: We're we're recording early.
John: Yeah, it's earlier than earlier than normal.
John: It's early for you.
John: I thought that you were early to bed, early to rise.
John: Make your man healthy, wealthy and wise.
Merlin: Yes, that is a salient question.
Merlin: I rise.
Merlin: I rise.
Merlin: Who is that?
Merlin: Is that Maya Angelou that rises?
Merlin: Maya Angelou certainly rose.
Merlin: Who am I thinking of?
Merlin: Bette Midler.
Merlin: Maya Angelou.
Merlin: Is that her name?
Merlin: Maya Angelou.
Merlin: Gwendolyn Brooks is the one that jazzes June.
John: Right.
John: We real cool.
John: Whereas Albert Brooks is the one that lost all his nest egg.
John: Albert Brooks.
John: Albert Brooks lost all his nest egg.
Merlin: He lost his nest egg, and that's Uncle Bob's brother.
John: Uncle Bob's brother, Albert.
John: Uncle Bob Einstein's brother, Albert Einstein.
John: Auntie Jen.
Merlin: Open the door and let him in.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: I'm canceling the show.
Merlin: I did not know that.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: I'll tell you.
Merlin: I'll tell you.
Merlin: There's a couple of things I know about the TV show, The Simpsons.
Merlin: One is whenever Homer puts on reading glasses, he's about to do something very stupid.
Merlin: That's funny.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: And the other thing I know is that any episode that has the great Albert Brooks will be a very good episode.
John: When Homer puts on the reading glasses, is it the type of thing that you recognize so much so that you like lean forward in your chair?
John: Like, oh boy, here we go.
John: Or is it always retroactive?
John: Like, oh, that was funny.
John: And guess what?
Merlin: He put his reading glasses on.
Merlin: Well, it's something where like my daughter knows it, you know, she's an aficionado.
Merlin: And, you know, if my daughter and I drank while we watched The Simpsons, which we currently don't, it would be like a drinking game.
Merlin: It's like, oh, no.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: Do, do, do, do.
Merlin: Do, do, do, do.
John: Does he do it every episode?
John: Does he put on his glasses?
Merlin: No, I mean, it's not like it's not like Fibber McGee and Molly or it's not like what?
Merlin: It's not like Rob Petrie falling over the Ottoman.
Merlin: Which happens every episode.
Merlin: That's in that opening.
Merlin: And then, remember, there's no spoilers.
Merlin: But then they take it and they turn it.
Merlin: And I think in later seasons, he goes, whoop.
Merlin: And he kind of goes, not today.
John: Not today, Satan.
John: Tell me this.
John: Like, I have a friend who has a podcast about The Simpsons called The Simpsons Podcast or something.
John: Okay.
John: I have those friends that have a podcast about Star Trek.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: I know that this is a popular style of podcast to pick a thing that somebody or a group of people made and then do a show where you talk about it.
John: Sure.
John: There's the West Wing one.
John: I know both those guys.
John: Okay.
John: One of them was on the West Wing.
John: If you were going to do a podcast where the whole premise was that someone else had made a thing and now you were going to talk about it.
John: Ugh.
Merlin: what would that be that's such a good question and it's good question because it's difficult question because you know the kind of stuff that i'm gonna pull out you you know i mean if i if i have my druthers and i just want to talk about a thing that i really like it would be something like a monty python or a mr show is there no mr show podcast
Merlin: Well, here's the, I don't know.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: And here's the, here's the, we're halfway there.
Merlin: We quote them almost every episode.
Merlin: We give so much free publicity through bits.
Merlin: Who do we give publicity to?
Merlin: We give publicity.
Merlin: Oh, you know, REM gets, gets lots, lots.
Merlin: I'm going to say, uh, you know, uh, some of the, the films of Francis Ford Coppola get a lot of shout outs.
John: We shout out to the Beatles all the time.
John: I think we were responsible for it.
John: It's on my notional list.
Merlin: one percent of the oh a beatles podcast there's got to be those yes yes but yes yes yes okay so so so uh the stuff where i would go like here's my problem my problem is like you know uh my critical faculties melt down a little bit i go and then i turn into that uh that chris farley character you know what i'm saying right but you and i could argue about the beatles all day we used to do it's on the list
John: What about Wilberforce?
John: Could you just do a whole podcast on him?
Merlin: Just about Marble's Wilberforce?
Merlin: I don't see, but now, okay, so here's the third.
Merlin: All right.
Merlin: You could do that.
John: That'd be a bit.
Merlin: You know what's funny?
Merlin: He's just wandering from town to town.
Merlin: I'm going to answer your question.
Merlin: I'm also going to send you a picture of what I look like right now.
John: Do you look like Wilberforce?
Merlin: Please say yes.
Merlin: Well, you're going to laugh.
Merlin: You're going to get a giggle out of this.
Merlin: I'll send it in a second.
Merlin: Yeah, so here's my thought on this, is that my problem is I would send, no, click.
Merlin: I'm doing too many things this early.
Merlin: um my problem is i'm gonna turn into that chris farley character from saturday night live i'm just gonna be like oh you know uh remember when uh they did that uh one thing where uh they did the parody of jesus christ superstar like wasn't that funny like i'm gonna be doing stuff like that but it's not gonna be uh probative i just got your i just got your picture tell me what you think of my look
John: Boy, you're a little bit Florida, man.
Merlin: I think I look like I just got thrown out of the Eagles.
John: You're a little bit Uncle Randy.
John: You're a little bit... Uncle Randy, like a bad touch on Uncle Licky?
John: Don't you think Uncle Licky?
John: I mean, you're a little bit like living in your van down by the river.
John: I have to say, like, out of context, right?
John: If I was just... You see the children in the background?
John: I do.
John: If I was in America, right, somewhere in America...
John: If I was lost in America, let's say.
John: Oh, wow.
John: Everything's connected.
John: And I came upon just somewhere in a non-coastal area, anywhere from eastern California all the way to western New York, and I encountered you...
John: Wearing that jacket.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: It's a Dickies jacket that has a Narragansett beer patch and a Wilberforce button.
Merlin: Yes.
John: I definitely would not be like... Would you ask me for directions, for example?
John: For sure.
John: You seem like the type of guy that would know directions.
John: You seem like the type of guy that would know the nearest place to get a bite to eat.
John: But you also... I mean, I bet you're handy with a wrench.
John: Would you get in my van to help me find my puppy?
John: Oh, I don't think so.
John: No, I don't.
John: Come on.
John: I got gummy bears.
John: Come on.
John: I think the fact that you even asked me to get in your van to help you find your puppy would be reason enough to call.
Merlin: Well, I would do it.
Merlin: And I've coached my daughter on this, this method.
Merlin: The method is you come in and you're all jacked up.
Merlin: You're all jacked up.
Merlin: And if you really want to get somebody in your van, you're jacked up.
Merlin: And you say like, Oh my God, Oh my God.
Merlin: Uh, your dad said, your dad said to come help me find a puppy, get in the van, get in the van quick.
Merlin: Cause that's the thing that you know, this, I mean, you've trained for this your whole life.
Merlin: You know, that it's that moment of duress, you know, we get a little bit confused.
John: Your mom, your mom, your mom called.
John: She said, yeah, I'm the person.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: She said it's okay, and I got gummy bears.
Merlin: You know what I'm saying?
Merlin: So what happened was, I don't know how long it's been.
Merlin: It might be a year since I've had a haircut.
Merlin: It's close to a year.
Merlin: And then sometimes, you know, I don't shave for a little while.
Merlin: And this was the day of the annual school carnival.
Merlin: where we attend and volunteer and stuff like that.
Merlin: And I'll tell you a funny thing.
Merlin: I want to come back to your show idea in a minute.
Merlin: I put a fork in that.
Merlin: My lady friend says to me the other day, she says, you know what?
Merlin: You should grow a mustache again.
Merlin: And I said, the devil you say.
Merlin: I can't really grow a mustache.
John: Oh, your mustache is great.
John: And the fact that it's a little gray, a little blonde, it's the thing that adds.
John: And you see what you know, Marilyn, and this is something you know that a lot of people don't.
John: Yes.
John: mustache does not end at the end of your mouth.
John: That's a rookie error.
Merlin: That's the difference between a porn star and a pirate, if you ask me.
John: Yeah, you're not the dread pirate, Robert.
John: Nope.
John: You have a bigger stache.
John: It's got to go out.
John: It's got to go out further than the ends of your mouth.
Merlin: You know what I figured, John?
Merlin: I was in there, and I had trimmed...
Merlin: And I prepared the way.
Merlin: And I said to myself, you know what?
Merlin: It's fun.
Merlin: You know it's a fun thing to do.
Merlin: It's a fun thing when you're shaving off.
Merlin: You know when you're shaving off a lot of stuff, you can have some fun with that.
Merlin: And you can leave some parts and not others.
Merlin: You can make yourself into an AirSats Backstreet Boy.
Merlin: You could do a John Waters at the end.
John: Wait a minute.
John: Your button, I'm zooming in now.
John: Your button actually says sh.
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John: I was making a joke earlier and then you produce immediately a photograph and we're talking about the mustache and you don't even refer to the fact that you are wearing a button that says strict.
John: You think that might be a misprint?
John: I don't.
John: I think that I...
John: I think that I'm pretty close to knowing you after all these years.
Merlin: I think you might have known me.
Merlin: So I know, I know.
Merlin: And my daughter likes to go early when you go to the carnival because you get chances at better prizes earlier.
Merlin: She's an early girl.
Merlin: She's an early girl for the carnival.
Merlin: And so we went early.
Merlin: So I had gone and taken the shower.
Merlin: I'd done the trim.
Merlin: I'd done the prep.
Merlin: I'd done the setup.
John: Didn't put product in your hair.
John: Which is the missing element here.
John: I did condition.
John: Yeah, that's not enough.
John: I mean, it makes your hair silky and smooth, but you got to put a little bit of something schmutz to control the – like you want a little bit more.
John: What am I looking for?
John: What's the word I'm looking for?
John: Shape.
John: Shape.
John: body shape yeah something because you got the one side and then you got the other side you know what i'm what's going on over here right like if you cut this picture right in half you got one side put your hand down the middle of this picture no look at one side and then look at the other two completely different guys it lacks a certain symmetry
John: One guy is looking one way.
Merlin: I haven't even gotten a trim.
Merlin: If you'll pardon my saying, I am trimless.
Merlin: This is an in-situ.
Merlin: Let the hair grow.
Merlin: Let it grow.
Merlin: Let it grow.
Merlin: Just to see what happens.
Merlin: One more time in my life.
Merlin: You know, one last time.
Merlin: I figure maybe I'll just have the long hair one last time.
John: One last time, though?
John: Really?
Merlin: Well, I don't.
Merlin: Who knows?
Merlin: You know, sand through the hourglass.
John: The last time I cut my hair, I was like, well, that's it.
John: One last time.
John: That was it.
John: It's over now.
John: I'm not going back.
John: Oh.
John: Because I had it growed for a long time, and it never once looked good.
John: So make a note of it.
John: Wow.
John: See, but you can cut your hair.
John: You have executive function for your hair.
John: Yeah, but I'm not sure if I'm ever going to really, really be done.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: I have some photos of you circa...
Merlin: I don't know why this happened, but I think, was it Simpson?
Merlin: Scott Simpson and I went on Luke Burbank's show, and you were there.
Merlin: Did that happen?
Merlin: Mike Burbank?
Merlin: Isn't that his name?
Merlin: Didn't we go on a local radio show?
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mike Burbank.
John: No, it's Luke Burbank.
John: Luke Burbank.
John: Luke Burbank, who does a show.
John: Has he been on forever, since Christ was a corporal?
John: That's right.
John: And remember...
John: Remember when we went on Luke Burbank's show and we said the takeaway was he does a show every day.
John: How does he do it?
John: I don't know how you do it.
John: Well, but look at us now.
Merlin: Well, how many shows do you do?
Merlin: I'm in a children's carnival looking like I have a van.
Merlin: But I have photos of you.
Merlin: I have photos of you from around that time.
Merlin: Tremendous.
Merlin: I may use that for show art because this ain't going up.
John: But it was also the tooth times.
John: It was the tooth.
John: That's right.
John: But that was back when Scott Simpson looked like he was working for NASA in the 60s.
Merlin: He looked like the nicest guy on the lacrosse team.
John: Yeah, the guy on the lacrosse team that couldn't take a hit that ended up being the manager.
Merlin: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: He's the one guy they rule out after there's a party.
Merlin: It's like it wasn't him.
John: But he would show up.
Merlin: He was one of the Gingham brothers.
John: Oh, he was a Gingham boy, and he'd wear a V-neck sweater.
John: That was a long time ago.
John: I looked like somebody that was living under their van.
John: And Scott looked like a guy that sat in a chair while other people played flag football.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
John: So, you know, and so I came out and I did the trim.
Merlin: I did the trim and I came out and I had my clothes on for the day and I come out and you know what I said to my family?
Merlin: I said, ta-da!
Merlin: And the results were very split in the household on the new look.
Merlin: uh really oh yeah well again uncannily like surprisingly my lady friend is like i love it oh yeah oh tell me more and then the other lady in the house was like get back in there and disappear your face hair that is bad you're not going to school like that oh well do you think that there's a portion
John: Do you think that she's change averse?
Merlin: I know I was.
Merlin: I remember one time my mom got a haircut.
Merlin: I remember very specifically remember bawling and saying something like, you don't look like my mom anymore.
John: The kind of thing a kid says.
Merlin: Oh, you don't look like my mom.
Merlin: Did your mom mostly keep the same look?
Merlin: She seems so, how does one say?
Merlin: She seems like she, well, of course she has focus.
Merlin: She's got eye of the tiger.
Merlin: Like, oof.
Merlin: But did she change her look over time?
Merlin: Did that ever happen to you?
Merlin: Did you ever say you don't look like my mom?
John: Uh, I think what happened all through the seventies, she kind of kept not a beehive, but, uh, she would get her hair done as they used to say.
John: Oh yeah.
John: She would get her hair done.
John: She never had a perm.
John: Um, she always had a kind of, uh, yeah, her hair was, well, you know, in the sixties, they spent a lot of time thinking about their hair.
John: And then in the seventies, gradually, I think a lot of the women that worked with her, uh,
John: had their hair parted in the middle and straight, like ironed straight.
John: Talking about kind of like a Dorothy Hamill-ish, like a straight with a fluke?
John: No, no, no.
John: Long, long hair straight.
John: Oh, like hippie hair.
John: Hippie hair.
John: Okay.
John: Which I think was very, you know, Cher hair.
John: Oh, Cher hair.
John: Popular in the 70s.
John: But mom always kept her hair up and not long.
John: It didn't ever like go down and curl.
John: It was always, I mean, it's not like, it's not like,
John: secretary wedge or anything it was it was a hairdo right and then in the 80s i think she got her hair got a little bit more professional because she was more professional what it really was was that she she she started wearing she's managing at that point yeah once she got into management she started wearing suits
John: And then the suits got more and more suity.
John: More like a Geraldine Ferraro kind of look.
John: Yeah, it was very like, whoa, it's power suits now.
Merlin: Yeah, my mom had those.
Merlin: She had a lot of like, I would say almost like in the 80s, almost like a postmodern female leisure suit.
Merlin: Like a two-piece, you got a jacket, you got a pant, and then you have a blouse and a little bit of jewelry.
Merlin: Blouse.
Merlin: And that was a professional look.
John: Right.
John: Although I don't I think my mom was a skirt and blazer or not, you know, like matching.
John: That's a smart look.
John: I don't think it was.
John: I don't think she would wear pants to the office.
John: You know, she's a member of a certain generation.
John: She had that little tie, you know, the the the necktie.
John: And, yeah, she went in and, you know, kicking ass and taking names.
John: But she has she maintained pretty consistent until just recently.
John: She continued to dye her hair until recent memory.
John: I'm talking about the last within the last four years.
Merlin: Kind of a lovely ginger wedge.
John: Yeah, and she used to say, I have to dye my hair because my hair is an unattractive color.
John: My gray is an unattractive color of gray.
John: I've heard this.
John: I've heard this from people.
John: Yeah, and I would sit and nod, as I so often do.
John: It's one of the things that I learned very early on, just sit and nod.
John: And then I would listen to how her gray was an unattractive gray.
John: And then I would just say, what is an unattractive gray?
Yeah.
John: And then I would listen to what an unattractive gray was as opposed to an attractive gray.
John: Because to my point, all gray is the same.
John: There is no – and I think what she was saying is the gray was in contrast to other colors in her hair.
John: Anyway, she was very convinced of this.
John: And eventually, not very long ago, I said, listen, I think why not give it a try?
John: Why not just let it all just go gray?
John: You're 81.
John: Like it seems appropriate.
John: And she did.
John: And it is striking and beautiful.
John: I love that look.
John: Yeah, it's wonderful.
John: And then she realized, oh, my, I'm not an unattractive color of gray.
John: My gray is amazing.
John: Oh, that's so nice to hear.
John: It's nice.
John: But the problem is I never get credit for these things.
John: Right.
John: I mean, the entire time I was like, hmm.
John: And then, you know, I'm proved correct again and again and again as regards my mother and her worldview.
John: And yet it is never recorded in the giant ledger.
John: What's that going to remember is all the times you would just sit and nod.
John: Well, sure.
John: But I mean, the whole time I was nodding.
John: I was not agreeing.
John: Right.
John: I was nodding.
John: Oh, but I was not agreeing.
John: I was just I was just nodding.
John: Not in agreement, but in acknowledgement of what she was saying, like, and this is the same nod that I give when she, when she would come downstairs and say, I think I'm going to subdivide my house into four apartments by building a wall here next to the stairs.
John: And I would go, and then I listen.
John: And then I would say, well, do you have a desire to be a property manager?
John: You know, I do a redirect, right?
John: I don't go, this is a beautiful class.
John: You're not talking about the idea.
John: You're considering the implications.
John: Right.
John: Because every friend I've ever had at one point or another, as they realized, I'm sorry, not every friend I've ever had.
John: You've never done this to me.
John: Every homeowner friend?
John: No.
John: A lot of my friends when I was in my 20s were working as baristas or waiters or sommeliers or some other kind of service job.
John: As a way to continue to be a musician or an actor or an artist, you know, like a visual artist.
John: And then along the way, somewhere, they felt like they weren't going to make it as an artist and that their career was actually...
John: waiter or barista or sommelier or what have you.
John: And it was always a, it was always a little bit.
John: It was a transition that happened in their thirties where they were like, I'm a great waiter.
John: Uh, and I wait in very expensive restaurants now.
John: And, uh, and I act in stuff when it comes up.
John: And that's a big transition from in our 20s, because in my 20s, I worked as the shop, right?
Merlin: You're working over here so that you continue to work over there.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: In some ways, right?
Merlin: But you're talking about what can be a very, very long and personally contentious acceptance.
John: Well, and I, by the grace of God, right, I got asked to join Harvey Danger, right?
John: By Sean.
John: And then I made that first long winter's record.
John: And then I went out on tour and got $100 a night for two years.
John: And my mom let me live at her house.
John: So I had a lot of advantages that not everybody has.
John: But also, I have to say...
John: It was a blow to my dignity to live at my mom's house.
John: And a lot of my friends had a lot more dignity than me.
John: They sort of lived at their mom's houses, but they wouldn't.
John: And you know, that's a big part of how I did it.
John: The big part of how I transitioned from not from working in a shop to not working in a shop is that I swallowed my pride.
John: Mm hmm.
John: And, you know, took the parental charity for a couple of years before I was, you know, during that period where I was making $100 a show.
John: Yeah.
John: And paying four dudes.
John: Anyway, during that period where they started to say, I'm more of a waiter than I am a musician.
John: They always would come to me and say, I'm going to open my own place.
Yeah.
John: And I've got a plan.
John: And here's the plan.
John: I'm going to bet a bet a bet.
John: I'm going to do this.
John: And it's going to be a place like this.
John: Like a club?
John: A restaurant, usually.
John: You know, someplace.
Merlin: Like, it's always a cafe.
Merlin: All this riskiness of the music industry makes me really want to go into something safe, like opening my own restaurant.
John: Well, and I would say to them, and this was the point, I would say, I would not do that.
John: You're not looking at what they're saying.
John: You're looking at the implications.
John: And I would say, do you like working in restaurants?
John: Mm-hmm.
John: And they would go, no, not at all.
John: And I would say, so you are thinking of opening your own restaurant where basically you would be working in a restaurant 80 hours a week instead of 26 hours a week.
John: And they would go, well, yeah.
John: And I would say, think about that.
John: Your entire life now would be.
John: be working in this restaurant that you owned.
John: And the, and the only advantage would be that you own it, but you're, it's just restaurant work.
John: Yeah.
John: Except with all the stress.
Merlin: So many was, yeah.
Merlin: So, so many stresses, stressors, and like so many new, like shitty responsibilities over which you have virtually no control.
Merlin: You know, that's, to me, there's so many things to what you're saying here, which is like, first of all, it's very costly to start a restaurant.
Merlin: I mean, and of course the, you know, the famous, there's all the rules of thumb about how many restaurants go out of business in six months, et cetera, et cetera.
Merlin: But like, you're not, you know, you're like, like, would you take any other, not to hijack your story, but like, would you take any other job just managing a thing?
Merlin: Like, would you manage a plumbing supply store as like the way to do that?
Merlin: Like, no, cause like as much as you, so like you like food, you like cooking, you like, you know, maybe even hospitality as an industry.
Merlin: Like that's all your money on the line or somebody else's money you're going to owe.
Merlin: And then on top of it, now you're now you're Mr. Manager.
John: Now you're Mr. Manager.
John: And now, I mean, I have a friend that's a manager that of a place.
John: And he says that every day now, and this is different from when we were.
John: when we were younger.
John: He said every day now he has to manage some employee who is crying.
John: And crying because of something that happened in the job.
John: Like a normal part of the job.
John: Like somebody came in and
John: said something at like, as they were saying, can I have some ice cream?
John: They said, um, miss, can I have some ice cream?
John: And the person behind the counter is not a miss and didn't want to be described as a miss.
John: And, and, uh, and so the, this manager friend of mine spends an inordinate amount of time, not managing the store at all, but managing people's feelings.
John: And you know, when I was working in shops, no one managed my feelings or gave a good gaddam about my feelings at all.
John: And so their management job was already hard, really hard, just making sure there was milk.
John: You know, like, oh, we're out of milk.
John: Oh, fuck, that was your job.
Merlin: I would feel that way.
Merlin: I would feel that way a little bit more in an office environment where, of course, as a white guy, I would feel like a certain sense of, like, entitlement about something of, like, why did they get this thing and I didn't.
Merlin: I feel like my emotions got managed that way.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: But, I mean, just to say, not so much at McDonald's.
Merlin: Because there's always another guy that'll come in and work for $3.35 an hour.
John: Oh, you ain't kidding, sister.
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: Although, in Seattle...
John: Oh, here's the thing.
John: The restaurants are politically progressive restaurants.
Merlin: And you have a 15 $15 an hour minimum wage, right?
John: We do.
John: And but there are restaurants now that are committed to political progressivism.
John: And there weren't really those when I was working.
Merlin: It was more like a hotbed of the worst possible impulses at every level.
John: Well, yeah, and I mean, I worked in restaurants that were owned by gay people, that were owned by people of color, but they were not politically progressive.
John: They were also exploitative.
Merlin: The staff in the kitchen ain't no queer eye.
Merlin: Like, that's some of the scariest, meanest people you'll meet in your life is a prep cook.
Merlin: Do you know how mean a prep cook can be?
Merlin: Oh, I do.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: It's so hot.
Merlin: They're so mean.
Merlin: They have knives.
Merlin: Most of them have done time.
Merlin: And they're all very, very angry.
Merlin: And a lot of times in my day, a little bit hopped up.
John: Hopped up, angry.
John: I remember working in an Irish bar when Kurt Cobain killed himself.
John: And I went to – oh, no.
John: I was working in a stock brokerage when he killed himself.
John: But when I got fired from the stock brokerage, I went and got a job in this Irish bar.
John: And the cook at one point waved his spatula at me and said, Kurt Cobain killed himself because he thought it would be cool.
Yeah.
John: And he was in the midst of a rant about, I don't know, Rush or something.
John: He was throwing grease all over the place.
John: Rush wouldn't do that.
John: Disparaging the memory of Kurt Cobain.
John: And at the time, there was a real front of house, back of house problem.
John: Oh, my friend that works in this place that's politically progressive told me the other day, you can't say front of house, back of house anymore.
John: Is that normative to body types?
John: No, it harkens back to slavery.
Merlin: Oh, you're kidding.
Merlin: Apparently, according to... I see you don't want to be... You don't want to be a field person versus a house person?
John: That's right.
John: If you're in the back of the house, say, for instance, in the kitchen, as opposed to the front of the house where you're... I thought it was about butts.
John: But you're talking about slaves.
John: I think this falls into the category of a theory, a theory of language rather than actually where that comes from.
John: Front of house seems to be the people that work in the front of the house.
John: building or the restaurant.
Merlin: Do they have an acceptably progressive way to contrast the people who work in the kitchen versus the people who work where the tables are?
John: This is a good question.
Merlin: I'm not going to fall into this trap, John.
Merlin: One I cannot answer.
Merlin: I don't want you to get an email about this.
Merlin: I had no idea how unwoke I was.
John: I'm dead asleep.
John: The problem, you know, the thing is that you get a toehold on woke, you get up there, you feel like you got all the way up on there, and you realize it's just the first.
John: It's inception.
Merlin: You're like a dream and a dream and a dream.
Merlin: You're not woke, buddy.
John: Not at all.
John: You can never be.
John: You can't be.
John: But I, so I, so I interrogate my friends, uh, up to a point.
John: And then I have to realize I don't work in restaurants anymore.
John: Um, and some, and all your information's old by the grace of God or my, my personal experience is old.
John: I, I know I'm so grateful.
John: I'm so grateful for those years that I, uh, that I, that I did.
John: That was my Israeli army.
John: That was your Israeli army?
John: Oh my God.
John: Oh, and there were, you know, there were, it was like a, there were a lot of boys, there were a lot of girls, there were a lot of other people that don't fall into those two categories.
Merlin: You need to just get along.
Merlin: You got to get along because nobody cares.
Merlin: You have to be there because you want money.
Merlin: But boy, are you going to ever have to mitigate how important you think your personality is today?
Merlin: Because boy, are there people with bigger personalities and more power than you.
John: I said at one point, I mean, one of the turning points for me was my boss came in one day and he said, your job isn't that hard.
John: Either do it right or you're fired.
John: Yeah.
John: And I was like, huh?
John: Yeah.
John: My job seems really hard.
John: And he was like, it's not.
John: You're working at a magazine store.
John: There are 15 things you have to do.
John: Do all 15 of them.
John: Right now you're doing 13 of them every day.
John: And the two that you're not doing changes from day to day.
John: Which indicates to me you're capable of doing all 15.
Merlin: Oh, now you've become, without realizing it, you've become a wild card.
Merlin: And managers do not like a wild card.
John: No.
John: Manager came in and he would say, why isn't the Wall Street Journal out on the stand?
John: And I would go, oh, it's right here.
John: I just was about to get to it.
John: And he's like, no, no.
John: No, when it comes in, it goes immediately out because we sell them to people and they come and they want to.
John: And if they don't see it, maybe they keep going.
John: And I was like, yeah.
John: But I mean, and then the next day he would say, why are the cigarettes?
John: Why are we out of Winston's?
John: And I would say, oh, they're right here.
John: I just didn't unwrap them yet.
John: And he's like, no, no, no, no.
John: You do all 15 things.
John: And not 12.
John: And it seems like, he said, it seems like what you do is you get to 12 things and you feel like it's time for a break or, you know, like your job here is done or something.
John: It's done enough.
John: And he said, he said, either do all 15 things consistently every single day or I will fire you.
John: And I was like so mad.
John: I went home and I was like, fine, fucking fire me.
John: I don't care.
John: I don't need your fucking job.
John: Mr. Man, Mr. Magazine Store Manager, proxy for the industrial capitalist state.
John: And I sat there, and I was chewing on my knuckles, and I was like, tomorrow I'm not even going to go in.
John: Tomorrow I'm going to walk past, and I'm going to flip him the— Well, let him unwrap his own instance.
John: Yeah, I'm going to flip him the reverse peace sign FUs.
John: Ooh, you're going British.
John: Yeah, and then I'm going to go—I'm going to have a coffee at the coffee shop next door, and I'm going to sit there with my feet up on a chair.
John: And then in the middle of the night, I said, wait a minute.
John: I like this job.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: only have to do 15 things and then i can spend the rest of the day standing there uh snarking at people when they come in to buy winston's on the wall street journal which is such a terrible moment i've had that moment so many times where you're like yeah no i know exactly what you're talking about and usually it can often involve stuff like like a terrible uh mixture of uh dignity and money where you're like oh yeah you know what uh
Merlin: You know, a little bit not to go all Seinfeld.
Merlin: It's a little bit like when George quits and then like comes back to the meeting and acts like he never quit.
Merlin: Like where you're like, oh, no, this I'm working in your case.
Merlin: I'm working in a newsstand.
Merlin: This could be so much work.
Merlin: I have 15 things to do in a newsstand.
Merlin: This could be so much worse.
John: Yes, it could.
John: It could.
Merlin: And so did you swallow your dignity and go back in?
John: So I went in and I was like, I wasn't sure.
John: If I was going to be able to pull this off, but I was like, I'm, I'm willing to give this a try.
John: And, uh, so I tried to do all 15 things and I have to say it was against my, uh, it was against my feelings.
Yeah.
John: Um, because I didn't feel like, I felt like 12, I had to confront the fact that I felt like 12 things was, was good enough and that they should make some allowances.
John: Yeah.
John: Cause I had a lot of stuff to think about.
John: And, um, but I went in and I tried to do all 15 things and I, and I was able to.
John: And I did it one day, and then I did it the next.
John: And whenever I thought, ah, whew, I've done like 12 things.
John: I put out the Manchester Guardian.
John: I've been doing this cash register all morning, and that's a lot.
John: And I put all the Time magazines and stuff in.
John: I guess I should just do the last few things.
John: And I did them and I did them every day.
John: And when I thought me, I would say to myself, I'm going to get fired if I don't.
John: And that was enough of a motivation because I realized I liked the job.
John: And then pretty soon I was good at the job.
John: And then like five months later, he said, you're doing great.
John: And I was like, nobody ever said that to me before.
John: Wow.
John: Like literally no one ever said you're doing great to me.
John: You didn't get no Adam boy in anything I'd ever done.
John: Nobody said that.
John: And he was like, he said, you're doing great.
John: And then a couple of weeks went by and he said, I need somebody to do the books.
John: How do you feel about that?
John: And I was like, I never did the books on a thing.
John: And he said, yeah, I think you've got I think you've got what it takes.
John: And he trained me to do all the deposits and keep all the books.
John: And I'd never been happier.
John: Sat in the back after my shift.
John: And did all the accounting.
John: Oh, I was in heaven.
John: I did all the accounting.
John: And now I was like a big cheese.
John: And I did that for about a year.
John: And then I went in one time and I said, I want to raise.
John: And he said, no.
John: And I was like, okay, fine.
John: And I didn't even choke on my dignity then.
John: He was like, I can't give you a raise because I can't.
John: It's like, all right.
John: Okay.
John: Well, anyway, good talk.
Merlin: I mean, how do you describe that feeling?
Merlin: I mean, think about, let's say you really like Raisinets.
Merlin: And you go into the drugstore and you get some Raisinets.
Merlin: I don't know what they cost.
Merlin: I'm going to say it's $1.25 for a box of Raisinets.
Merlin: Let's call it that.
Merlin: Let's call it that.
Merlin: You go in and you say, I'm going to get these Raisinets.
Merlin: They're $1.25.
Merlin: And then you go in one time and they say, well, these Raisinets are like $2.25 now.
Merlin: And you say, oh, okay.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Because you like Raisinets, but you don't $2.25 like Raisinets.
Merlin: Now, is that a huge amount of money?
Merlin: No, it's not.
Merlin: But if everything in your life went up that much without a consequent increase in value, you'd have to go, no, no, I'm not going to do that.
Merlin: I'm not going to do that.
Merlin: And in that case, in a job like that, and I think this is the part that you realize in the middle of the night that's hard to accept, is that my job is maybe very valuable at the wage that I'm making, but at the wage that I want,
Merlin: what I want.
Merlin: Make people want to replace me with somebody else who will work for less.
Merlin: They will find cheaper Raisinets.
John: This is true and this is why people keep wanting to open their own cafes because they realize they've reached a certain ceiling in waiting
John: It's time to really cash in in that lucrative food service business.
John: Yeah, right?
John: Because no matter how good a waiter you are and no matter how nice the restaurant, at a certain point it tops out because you can't serve that many people in a night.
Merlin: Again, we're back to the tile puzzle.
Merlin: We're back to the engineering problem.
Merlin: Let's say you're going to have the super freshest ingredients.
Merlin: If you have the super freshest ingredients, you can't have a giant menu.
John: You know what I'm saying?
Merlin: There's all of these trade-offs.
Merlin: If you have this amount of square footage available, you don't have all of the options.
John: If you're going to charge $600 for dinner,
John: The people are going to expect that you are only waiting on four tables.
John: Yes.
John: You can't have 15 tables and bring in people their fettuccine Alfredo and still charge them $600.
John: Yeah.
John: I'm too tired.
John: What do you do when you say too tired?
John: Yeah.
Merlin: You're talking about with restaurants or in life?
Merlin: I mean, in life a little bit.
John: What do you do when you're like, ah, I'm too tired to keep going to auditions.
John: I'm too tired to keep looking shows for my band.
John: You know what?
Merlin: You got to start looking at the implications is one of the things is like, you got to go like, okay, well, I either need to situate myself so that I can be tired at scale.
Merlin: or I'm going to need to find a way to be less tired or I'm going to have to find, I don't, I don't know what the answers are, but there's not that many answers.
Merlin: Do you wonder why?
John: I do in general.
Merlin: Oh, just, just so it's an affliction.
Merlin: I wonder why.
Merlin: Well, so I was thinking the other day, it's, it's bad.
Merlin: John is so bad because certainly like anyone today, I wonder why about, you know, big things, but it's, it's the, there's been a pickup truck,
Merlin: A white pickup truck, like so many people in our neighborhood have, parked near our house with about 14, like what would it be, like a one by six, like big boards in it.
Merlin: And it's been parked there for nine days, I've counted.
Merlin: And I wonder why that truck has been parked there for nine days.
Merlin: Ask me if I want to wonder why.
John: Why do you want to run away?
Merlin: Why, why, why?
Merlin: You know why she ran away?
Merlin: I don't want to wonder about the truck and the boards.
Merlin: I don't want to wonder about that.
Merlin: But every time I get home, you know what I do?
Merlin: I look out the window like this.
Merlin: I go, hey.
Merlin: No, I do this.
Merlin: I go, hey.
Merlin: Still there.
Merlin: We're up to 10 now.
Merlin: 10 days for boards.
Merlin: I don't want to be.
Merlin: John, do you wonder why?
Merlin: Well, so my thinking is, well, of course I wonder why.
Merlin: I feel like you wonder.
Merlin: I feel like in the dreaming hours, you sometimes are wondering why.
John: Well, I wonder why all the time.
John: My entire thing is wondering why.
John: And I realized that that puts us in the decided minority of people in the world because I don't think most people wonder why.
John: Is it making us happier?
John: It is not.
John: No.
John: And there are people listening to this show that wonder why.
John: And I think there are probably a lot of people listening to the show that don't wonder why.
John: Because just the odds are that people don't wonder why.
John: I think there are more people that don't wonder why than that do.
John: And I think it's important that some people wonder why, because you got to have a certain amount of wondering why.
John: But what I can't understand and have never been able to understand is how you don't wonder why.
John: Now, that's just like, I mean, if I could run a hundred yard dash, I think I would probably wonder what it was like to
John: not be able to run a 100-yard dash unless I was somebody who didn't wonder why.
Merlin: Well, you might wonder something practical.
Merlin: You might wonder why I can't run that faster.
John: I don't think so.
John: If you didn't wonder why, I don't think you would wonder why you couldn't do that.
John: You think it's a type?
John: Of wanderers?
John: Yeah, that there's wonders and wanderers not?
John: I do.
John: I think we're the wanderers.
John: We're wondering.
Merlin: I wonder...
Merlin: I wonder if it's – I wonder if it is – see, now I think – and this is part of wondering why is you branch off in a kind of personal mind map in all the different directions.
Merlin: This is one of the complications of being a wonderer why is like is it a shocking incuriosity of that particular pie slice of humanity?
Merlin: I don't know if it's that –
Merlin: No, I don't think so.
Merlin: Could be certainly your pipes and your wires.
Merlin: You know, like you and me, we got pipes and wires that are doing all kinds of stuff, making the mind maps.
Merlin: But could it be that you've been acculturated, trained, that you have been habituated to, did you used to wonder why maybe, and now you don't wonder why, and that has made all the difference.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Why do people stop wondering?
Merlin: Do they stop wondering?
Merlin: I wonder why that is.
John: Yes, you do.
John: Yes, you do.
John: Yes.
John: So I think that what you get is, like in our culture right now, there's a lot of, I wonder why things are the way they are.
Merlin: I wonder... I wonder why things aren't the way I think they should be.
John: Right.
John: Well, and this is, there are a lot of people in our circles who think about justice, who wonder, well...
John: Not necessarily.
John: There are people that think about justice that don't wonder why they know.
John: But there are some people that think, why is there injustice?
John: I wonder why there isn't more.
John: I wonder why not everyone sees this justice thing the way that I do.
John: As opposed to not wondering why, knowing why, knowing why somebody doesn't.
John: Feeling that as like a kind of existential certainty almost?
John: Well, sure, of course, because it's like, why doesn't this person share my beliefs?
John: Because they're a bad person.
Merlin: So they no longer wonder why about that, because that has been established.
Merlin: That's established.
Merlin: They're a bad person.
Merlin: Say again?
John: They're a bad person.
John: I have evidence for it, so I don't wonder why.
John: I just know what they are.
John: Whereas some of us are like, I wonder why.
John: I wonder why.
John: Wonder why.
John: And so you've got all the people in the world that aren't wondering why.
John: They're just knowing.
John: They're just knowing how things are.
John: And then there's a smaller group, a much smaller group, that's like, I wonder why.
John: I wonder why.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: You do it long enough and you get into a real broken liberal arts state where you go, huh, I wonder why I think like that.
Merlin: Or I wonder why I see like that.
John: You were just doing that a second ago.
John: I wonder if, so I wonder if also.
John: Yes.
John: But you were saying I wonder if.
Merlin: You can't really wonder if until you wonder why.
Merlin: When you wonder why a little bit, you start getting into a little bit of I wonder if.
Merlin: And guess what?
Merlin: Sometimes you turn that laser beam back at yourself.
John: You were just saying, I wonder if, I wonder why, because I've been acculturated to wonder why, rather than that wondering why as a thing.
John: Now I'm wondering whether.
John: Well, you're wondering whether.
John: You wondered if, and then you end up wondering whether.
John: Well, and so that's the thing.
John: That's where we are.
John: But there are a lot of other people that are on that treadmill because they know why.
John: And we would look at them and say, well, you think you know why.
John: But what if – I wonder if you think you know why because you don't – it's not in your nature to wonder why.
John: You get information and then you know why.
John: And across the board, because I see it all the time, I'm like, how do you not wonder more about why?
John: And then the response is, I don't have to wonder, because here's why.
John: And now here's me wondering how, right?
Merlin: A little bit.
Merlin: I wonder how we differ on that.
Merlin: I wonder how they got to that level of certainty.
John: You wonder how.
John: I wonder how.
John: Yeah, exactly.
John: How did you get enough proof that you no longer wonder why?
John: But the thing is, I don't think they ever wondered why.
John: They never wonder why.
John: No, because maybe it is acculturation or maybe it is instinct.
John: Maybe it wasn't encouraged.
Merlin: I wonder when they were never encouraged to wonder why.
Merlin: I wonder when one gets what's needed to want to wonder why or to have no other option than to wonder why.
John: Well, I think people are discouraged from wondering, right?
John: This is the thing about proofs.
John: If you go to a place where they say, here's why.
John: So here's the thing and here's why.
John: And you go, okay.
John: And then they go on to the next subject and they're like, here's another thing, here's why.
John: Then no one ever, it's not that you're discouraged, it's that you're, or I'm sorry, it's not that you're encouraged, it's that you're discouraged from ever asking why.
Merlin: We already have an answer for that.
Merlin: Let's move on to now just memorize this and we'll move on to the next thing maybe.
John: Right.
John: Whereas some of some of us are, I don't know, lucky or maybe instinct, because I think in my school I was much more also being fed the here's wise.
John: But I was like, I wonder.
John: And I don't know where that maybe that came from around the around the dining room table at night where where people said, well, here's the thing and here's the opposite thing.
John: What do you think?
John: And I was like, I wonder what they want.
John: Right.
John: What I'm supposed to think here.
John: And they're like, aha.
Merlin: You ate dinner with, if I could say, it sounds to me like you would dine from time to time with a couple people who were pretty sharp in thinking about how the world fits together.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: And they probably had their reckons.
Merlin: But, you know, I mean, I think about the comedian John Mulaney and talking about having two parents that were lawyers and how that would kind of affect their dining room conversations.
Merlin: He makes a funny bit out of it.
Merlin: But there are certain kinds of people that, like, it isn't necessarily that you want to throw a ball or teach them how to make a soapbox derby.
Merlin: You want to sharpen them like a knife at dinner and maybe give them an eating disorder.
Merlin: But at dinner, you're going to ask some difficult questions.
John: Yeah, or just even at dinner or in the course of a day.
John: They just might not suffer your bullshit.
John: That could be part of dinner.
John: They don't suffer it, but they also say things like, why'd you do that?
John: They're wondering why.
John: And they don't say, that's against our rules, don't do that.
Merlin: Oh, doctor, yes.
John: They would say, why did you choose to do that?
John: And then in the course of watching you squirm on the end of your fishing line, they would eventually get to...
John: the behavior that they were hoping you would do.
John: But in the meantime, you had to make it, you had to walk through the minefield of trying to explain why, while they wondered.
John: And even they were wondering why, even though they knew.
John: The answer?
John: They still were wondering.
Merlin: They could anticipate that there's an answer you don't want to give.
Merlin: Because let's be honest, little kids don't always know why they do anything.
Merlin: I think sometimes there's just the baser instincts of like, I just wanted the chocolate.
Merlin: That's the reason I did it.
Merlin: I did it because I wanted the chocolate.
John: Seems pretty simple.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Right, right, right.
Merlin: But then you get a little bit older.
Merlin: You know, that's how humans are, John.
Merlin: I think a lot of humans will find a reason why they did what they did.
Merlin: I think there's maybe even some science about this.
Merlin: Wait a minute.
Merlin: What?
Merlin: Go ahead.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: Oh, this is a thing.
Merlin: This is a thing.
Merlin: Most of us do things and then later on figure out why we did it.
Merlin: I think that's science.
Merlin: Now, I wonder if I got that right.
John: Well, you know, my daughter has been introduced recently to grammar, right?
John: And, of course, I've always tried to speak to her using correct grammar because I try to use it in the course of my own life.
John: Now, I'm often humorously flamed on the internet for mispronouncing words and, let's be honest, making up words.
John: But that's not... I mean, aren't all words made up, let's be honest.
John: Thank you, Marilyn.
John: Thank you.
Merlin: I mean, come on.
John: Words are just combinations of other words from other languages that somebody made up at one point.
Merlin: They all came from somewhere.
Merlin: What are you going to do?
Merlin: Marry a dictionary?
Merlin: Let John talk.
John: Let the man talk.
John: Thank you.
John: Okay.
John: Yes.
John: Anyway, but grammar is important to me.
John: I believe that you should... Grammar is meaningful.
John: It's back up for words.
John: That's right.
Merlin: You're not going to build a wall until you've got some mortar in there.
John: She's got the idea now of it where we never talked about it before as a thing.
John: We just said, here are the ways that you could talk.
John: Here's an example of a way you could say this sentence.
John: But the correct grammar would be this way.
John: And she's inputting it.
John: But now she's at a school where they say, hey, let's talk about grammar.
John: So we're on the way to school today.
John: And she tries this out.
John: We're just driving along.
John: And she says, I like to correct people's grammar.
John: But I try to have it be younger people younger than me, like, say, for instance, six and below.
Merlin: OK.
John: And then she lets that sit in the car.
John: She's a merciful pedant.
John: She says she says I like to.
John: And what she's testing out, I think, is she's hoping that I'm going to say, oh, no, correcting other people's grammar is amazing.
John: Super fun, but also really good for them.
John: So, yeah, you absolutely should not don't confine it to four year olds.
John: Just jump into any conversation where you hear something go down, either where they have made a mistake or where you think they've made a mistake.
Merlin: Regardless or irregardless, irregardless of whether their message was received in a way that you could personally understand.
Merlin: Feel free to stop the conversation at any point.
Merlin: To point out that even though you understood what they were saying, they said it wrong technically.
John: That's right.
John: If they don't have no grammar.
Merlin: You make so many friends that way.
John: Yeah.
John: If me and I or if you and I don't have grammar or you and me don't have grammar, it's really hard.
John: It's important to just jump right in.
John: And she was hoping I would say that.
John: But instead, you know, a pause went by and I said, well, the way people talk is very personal.
John: It's very personal to them.
John: And it's, I think, generally not our place to correct other people, not only in grammar, but also in manners.
John: When other people are doing their lives, we are just responsible for managing our own words and behavior.
John: And if somebody else is using the fork with the wrong hand or if somebody else doesn't send you a thank you note, it's not our place to correct them.
John: And also it doesn't obviate the need for us to continue to obey those rules.
Mm-hmm.
John: Well, she has, as you know, having raised a daughter a little older than mine, that she has an innate sense of justice that that does not quite line up with.
John: Because if they didn't send a card, why should we?
John: And if they use bad language or bad grammar or bad behavior, why are we over here having to do it?
John: It seems unfair.
John: He got ice cream.
John: Wow, sure.
John: He got ice cream and he was rude.
Yep.
Yep.
John: So by the time I dropped her off at school, we had – it was inconclusive.
John: She was considering the possibility that maybe correcting five- and six-year-olds was not her job.
John: But I don't think she had – I don't think she bought entirely into my argument.
John: So it's an ongoing process.
John: But of course, I'm constantly wondering why in addition to saying things like we don't mind other people's manners –
John: i feel like i have a pretty good idea why she wants to because she wants to be boss of the world was she leaning in uh yeah well you know she every every morning she goes
John: And I go, put the little knives back.
John: Put the little knives back.
John: We're not going to need those on the way to school today.
John: Or at school at all, really.
John: You don't need your fist blades.
John: Keep those in.
Merlin: You want to know the sound they make when they go back in?
John: What?
John: Snacked.
John: Oh, snacked.
John: So they go snicked when they come out and snacked when they go back?
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: Ow!
John: You know, going out feels like, oh, it cuts the skin.
John: Every time.
John: But going back in feels like it would really hurt.
Merlin: Oh, 100%.
Merlin: Imagine if in the middle of one of those kind of fights, maybe you got a little bit of inflammation in your arm, right?
Merlin: You know what I'm saying?
Merlin: Like you get a little bit older, you get inflammation.
Merlin: And then it's got to find a place back in there.
Merlin: No, thank you.
John: That knife has to go back in.
John: I always thought going out would be the painful thing, but now I'm really realizing snacked is basically the sound of it going back into your bones, in between your bones, where it's like, ow.
John: They did a number on that guy.
Merlin: I'm going to cover this on my Wilberforce podcast.
Right.
John: Is there enough Wilberforce
Merlin: knowledge and theory and wondering why to make a multi-episode podcast 100 absolutely you could you could do a limited series on wilberforce you could you could easily do episodes just on like the evolution of his uh of his uh powers because when they first made wilberforce those things came out of like a glove attachment also he's canadian
Merlin: What?
Merlin: He's Canadian?
Merlin: He's totes Canadian.
Merlin: Whoa!
Merlin: Why is he so mad?
Merlin: Well, you know, they did some stuff to him, at least in the retcon.
John: They made his bones out of adamantium.
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: I'll tell you what you got to look forward to in your future walks.
Merlin: There's a moment...
Merlin: When, for a variety of reasons, Arya Stark and the stable boy are like, they're just hanging out.
Merlin: And then Sansa and Joffrey show up.
Merlin: And Joffrey's all like, okay, you think you're tough?
Merlin: You want to fight me?
Merlin: And they're like, oh no, Joffrey.
Merlin: And he's like, no, no, I'm just the stable boy.
Merlin: I don't want no trouble.
Merlin: Wait, he's a Baratheon, though.
Merlin: Well, he's going to hurt the, is he, what, stable boy?
Merlin: I thought he was just a helper boy.
John: No, no, no, stable boy is, isn't he Robert Baratheon's master?
Merlin: No, no, no, not that guy, not Gendry.
Merlin: This is a different, not a blacksmith, this is a stable boy.
Merlin: Oh, stable, stable.
Merlin: And so then Joffrey says, you think you're tough?
Merlin: He takes out his sword, and he wants to start fighting the boy, and the boy is just a helper boy, and Arya has basically made the boy come play.
Merlin: Now understand, Sansa thinks she's on a super important date with Joffrey that's gonna have implications.
Merlin: in the future and joffrey comes in he's gonna be all hard with the boy he's gonna and the boy's like no please please please don't hurt me aria dives in to say no don't hurt him joffrey goes to defend himself and cast her away and guess what boom nymeria shows up and puts a hurtin onto joffrey's arm so fucking bad that joffrey lies on the ground and rolls around and goes ah ah ah
Merlin: and you know what there are from that there are implications there are implications of that incident that are played out and i consider it to be arguably the second most important series of events next to little finger in the dagger that is going to lead to the future and that's what my daughter and i talked about for 10 minutes on the way to school today
Merlin: The importance of the Nymeria attack.
John: She's been witness to all of the Games of Thrones?
Merlin: No!
Merlin: That's why I'm there to walk her through this.
Merlin: That's after I explained last night's episode over 45 minutes.
Merlin: We're not going to talk about that on the program.
Merlin: She hasn't seen them.
Merlin: She hasn't seen them.
Merlin: seen them but she's seen video she's read things she has dolls yeah we looked at which map of westeros and ss we want to maybe potentially get for the house sure this is what you have to look forward to it's not always going to be about grammar sometimes you can talk about the impact of nymeria
John: You know, we watched Bugsy Malone.
John: Oh, really?
John: That's so hard to find.
John: Well, we watched it, and she had some questions about Bugsy Malone.
John: She was...
John: She had a lot of penetrating questions.
John: She wondered why quite a few different things.
Merlin: There's so much to wonder why with that movie.
John: Oh my God, it's such a weird movie.
John: I have many, many, many years.
John: I have decades of pouring over Bugsy Malone in order to come up with some theories about how and why.
John: Yes.
John: And so, you know, she was asking the right guy.
Merlin: It's almost like asking you what you think about Hitler.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Like, what an opportunity she's given you.
Merlin: Dad, do you have any opinions about Hitler?
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: What?
Merlin: We could have been anything that we wanted to be.
Merlin: What a weird movie.