Ep. 354: "The Hands of Control"
Merlin: Hello.
Merlin: Hi, John.
Merlin: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: How is it going?
Merlin: Oh, it's good.
Merlin: It's going good.
Merlin: Listen, listen, I can tell you something up front.
Merlin: I got to warn you.
Yep, up.
Merlin: I got to do something.
Merlin: I got to do something I almost never do.
Merlin: I just don't do, but it's something I've got to do.
Merlin: I might have to take a call during the recording, but, but I will let you hear my end of the call.
John: Okay.
John: Okay.
John: That's great.
John: No, that's great.
John: That's wonderful.
Merlin: I, um,
Merlin: I know.
Merlin: You got stuff to do?
Merlin: Business?
John: No, no.
Merlin: No business.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: No, no, no.
Merlin: It's the junk guys are going to come for my junk.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: And it's a therapeutic thing I do every once in a while.
Merlin: And they call it a confirm.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: They call it a confirm, yeah.
Merlin: So you've built up some junk.
Merlin: Yeah, I have a problem.
Merlin: Well, I have a lot of problems.
Merlin: One of my problems is I do not and cannot have trash service at my office.
Merlin: Why?
Merlin: The short version is my landlord, whom I love and get along great with, he does have certain superstitions.
Merlin: And one of them is he does not want me to have access to the garage where the trash cans live.
Merlin: Which puts me in an awkward situation.
Merlin: Wait, wait, wait.
Merlin: Could you have access to it?
Merlin: Well, I mean, I could keep the trash cans right in my office, but... You know what I mean?
John: I mean, he doesn't want you to, but it's not like there's a blockade or something.
Merlin: I mean, you could conceivably... I don't think it's a Steve Bannon thing.
Merlin: I don't think he's dissolving bodies or anything.
Merlin: I like to think it's to give me plausible deniability.
Merlin: You know what I mean?
Merlin: In the intel community, they call it compartmentalization.
John: Right, because you want plausible deniability against what accusation?
Merlin: Well, like if I steal somebody's weed whacker or I take the kid's motorbike.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: So you are just like... In other words, if that goes missing, I can't even be a candidate because unless I'm breaking in...
Merlin: You know, I've never pursued it too far.
Merlin: He's got a real chill vibe about practically everything, but he just won't move on this.
Merlin: I've been here for 10 years and he won't move on it.
Merlin: So I have to call the Trash Boys.
John: Wow, you've been there 10 years?
Merlin: Merlin, I remember when you found that place.
Merlin: Yeah, I had to.
Merlin: I had a kid who had to have a room.
Merlin: 10 years?
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: So, you know, they may call, they may not.
Merlin: I hope they call because then, you know, they'll be able to come here.
John: So what kind of trash?
John: It's not just old fizzy water cans.
Merlin: It's a lot of old fizzy water cans.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: Okay, I'll tell you about my trash.
Merlin: What do I got here?
Merlin: I got some... I try to take food trash...
Merlin: Because I don't really like cook here, but like I'll get lunch.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: So there's takeout containers.
Merlin: I try to take those to like a monster.
Merlin: I take those myself to a public trash receptacle on the daily, except when I don't.
John: Oh, you're like one of those scofflaws who just puts his garbage in there.
Merlin: I'm like one of the locals, but I don't put out paint.
Merlin: I don't put out disused soy sauce.
Merlin: No offense.
Merlin: I don't do what the locals do, mostly.
Merlin: So yeah, I got a lot of cans.
Merlin: I got a lot of the cardboard in which they came.
Merlin: I usually got some boxes that I flattened.
Merlin: stuff like that mostly.
Merlin: And the worst part is, I don't know why.
Merlin: See, here's the thing.
Merlin: I utilize a well-known franchise chain of junk removers.
Merlin: Oh, I didn't know there was such a thing.
Merlin: There is.
Merlin: And the name of the company is also their 800 number.
Merlin: And they're really, really cars for garbage.
Merlin: Got you.
John: Junk boys.
Merlin: 877-588.
Merlin: Got you junk now.
Merlin: And they're really, really...
Merlin: They're really expensive, but you can get it on the same day.
Merlin: And here's me.
Merlin: I wake up and I go, you know what?
Merlin: Uniform of the day.
Merlin: Today will be the day for the trash.
Merlin: Now, the thing is, I've talked about this before, I think, but if you schedule it two weeks, three weeks, four weeks in the future, or even tomorrow, it's not the same as today.
John: Oh, who knows what kind of trash you're going to have then.
Merlin: Well, I'm going to drag my feet.
Merlin: And with this, that forces me to alter...
Merlin: The way that I look at my world.
Merlin: Have you noticed... And everything becomes potential trash.
John: Have you noticed that you and I often do things... Now, we're very different, you and I. We have different methodologies.
John: But you and I both like to do things, set things up where we are forced...
John: We are forcing ourselves to be forced to do the things that we need or feel like we need to do.
John: We do this a lot.
John: I light a fuse all the time, and then it's like, well, the fuse is lit.
Merlin: So, like, I know a friend of the show, Jesse Thorne, is like this.
Merlin: I know he's, I've heard him in his talks mention how much, I feel like I've heard him say how much he loves an unmovable deadline.
Merlin: That that's very motivating to him.
Merlin: Is it a similar thing for you?
John: Well, no, because, you know, the way I've constructed my life, all deadlines are movable.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: Same sister.
John: You know, it's just like, oh, is that a hard deadline for you?
John: Oh, well, not for me.
John: No, I'm bad about that, yeah.
John: But, you know, like the simple things that people do, like I've got to call the insurance company or I've got to do this or I've got to do that.
John: I always have to get backed up against a wall of some kind.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: But I also do this thing that you're doing, which is I set in motion a clockwork where somehow I can take the hands of control off of it and put those – even though it's me in control, I put the hands of control onto some proxy, some other party.
John: Oh, the trash guys have to – oh, the – you know, it's –
John: There's a displacement somehow, and then I will respond.
John: I don't know why I have to do that.
John: I don't know why I'm just not somebody who just makes a call and the thing happens.
Merlin: See, now the thing is that now we're going to hear from people who don't have these kinds of challenges, and they're going to say, let's just go do the thing.
John: Don't just go do the thing.
Merlin: It's a really good question.
Merlin: Why don't I just go do the thing?
Merlin: Why didn't I just go to Yale?
Merlin: Oh, sure.
Merlin: Why am I not a sea captain?
Why?
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Merlin: But I think there's a lot of different flavors of this.
Merlin: I think another flavor of this, personally, I think this is a little silly and very like a lifehacker.com kind of thing.
Merlin: But people do things like say... Let me write that down.
Merlin: Lifehacker.com kind of thing.
Merlin: But they'll say like, OK, I really need to stop smoking or I need to like stop doing a thing or start doing a thing.
Merlin: And so what some people will do there, I think there are websites to let you do this.
Merlin: You go and you say like, OK, there's some kind of an external referee for what you're doing.
Merlin: And if you don't do the thing, you donate money to a cause you hate.
Merlin: Oh, wow.
John: Ooh, what the?
Merlin: Geez, people really?
Merlin: If I start jerking it to the Sears catalog or vaping on my skateboard, if I start doing that, $700 goes to Lindsey Graham.
John: Oh, stop jacking it on your skateboard, Merlin.
John: We can't afford it.
John: Sick vape, bro.
John: It says, I went to lifehacker.com.
John: Oh, God.
John: What do I got today?
John: The best way is to use Google assistance reminders.
John: What's coming and going from Netflix the week of September 30th, 2009?
John: That's a great life hack.
John: Your joke's not funny anymore.
John: Something about social GPS.
John: How to decide whether to accept a job offer.
John: That does seem like a good life hack.
John: Something about vacations, where you fly direct.
John: That seems like just clickbait.
John: Where do I find my clipboard history on a PC or Mac?
John: I'd like to know that.
Merlin: How to survive every type of financial setback.
Merlin: Every type?
Merlin: That's what it says.
John: Including like robbery?
Merlin: I don't think they'd be allowed to have the article if it weren't true.
Merlin: Think of all the types of financial setbacks.
Merlin: There's so many kinds of financial setbacks.
Merlin: Well, first of all, you just gave $700 to Lindsey Graham because you were drinking while you vape on your skateboard.
John: Yeah, maybe that was a $700.
Merlin: That was a bad decision.
Merlin: You chose poorly.
John: You should have put that in a vape.
John: You should have put that in a vape.
John: Better vapes, right?
Merlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: Get a better rate.
John: They find things alike.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: They got it all here.
Merlin: It's all here.
Merlin: Yeah, and a lot of affiliate links.
John: Affiliate links.
John: That's right.
John: I'm Michaela Heck, Lifehacker podcast producer.
John: Hi, Michaela.
John: This is how I work.
John: How I work.
John: It's Michaela.
John: And Michaela spells her name very interestingly.
John: M-I-C-A-E-L-A.
Merlin: So it's a lifehacker post about a lifehacker podcast producer.
John: Right.
Merlin: Who is going to share some of her lifehacks.
Merlin: How she makes the podcast about lifehacks.
John: What's interesting is that she's not... It's lifehacks all the way down.
John: It's not a podcast about it.
John: It's a post about...
John: They're pivoting to words.
John: Rawr.
John: Okay, so I do feel I do not want to... You're externalizing motivation in some ways.
Merlin: You've talked before about how there's one particular friend of the show that I think you empowered to bug you about finishing a project at one point.
Merlin: That might have happened more than once.
Merlin: I don't want to invoke his name.
Yeah.
John: I do that.
John: I do that.
John: I empower my friends to hassle me.
John: But then it turns out I ignore them just as easily as I would anybody else.
Merlin: That's the problem.
Merlin: That's part of the procrastination crush is that, you know, one can – if one –
Merlin: Procrastination Crush was a great guy to buy voices.
Merlin: So good.
Merlin: Two, three, four.
Merlin: The thing is, and this is my beef with New Year's resolutions, which is like if you were actually going to do it, you wouldn't need the resolution.
Merlin: You'd already have done it.
Merlin: Not always true, but a shocking amount of the time is just rehearsing being terrible at something.
Merlin: So if you're going to do it, you'll do it.
Merlin: And then having a well-known voice actor yell at you,
Merlin: about a book or an album may not motivate you in the way you hope unless you, I don't, do you know what I mean?
Merlin: Like sometimes it works on some, that you call the junk boys and that's not quite a Lindsey Graham level of commitment, but it does cause me, that's important.
Merlin: I went by this quickly, but it's important that I shift from, this is all stuff I live with.
Merlin: To a point of view of, wow, to make this worth my while.
Merlin: Because here's the thing.
Merlin: This place, it's a racket.
Merlin: They have a minimum.
Merlin: And it's a really, to my mind, very expensive minimum.
Merlin: And there's this whole stupid dance you do.
Merlin: They come out and go, hey, how's it going?
Merlin: Is this your first time using it?
Merlin: No, I use it for a while.
Merlin: Oh, so anything else?
Merlin: Anything here is going to cut me?
Merlin: That kind of thing.
Merlin: And it's like, no, I know.
Merlin: I'm going to cut you, motherfucker.
Merlin: I know you're going to charge me.
Merlin: It's going to be usuriousbanking.biz all over again.
Merlin: Just take my money and my trash.
Merlin: And I don't need a friend.
John: I just need my trash to be gone.
John: Do they come up with extra charges?
John: Is that how it works?
John: No, no.
John: Oh, I see.
Merlin: The other benefit of this place, and I freely admit this is probably extreme bullshit, but they say that you don't even need to sort stuff because they got people for that.
John: Oh, do they really?
John: Or is it the opposite where no matter how much you sort it, it all goes into the same bin and gets... Well, that is a whole nother podcast situation.
Merlin: about what's really going on with recycling these days which is extremely depressing because i'm a really i'm a pretty good recycler in terms of like i try so we got it we got a three-bin system yeah three-bin system at home at home where we're allowed to have trash we got a three-bin system you got your what they call a landfill yeah in the black can you got your recycling in the big blue can and then you got the compost in the green can
Merlin: And we utilize all of the cans.
Merlin: My people use every part of the receptacle.
John: Sure, except it's all a scam.
Merlin: Well, I do believe the compost goes to a compost place.
Merlin: The podcasts that I listen to are leading me to believe that...
Merlin: Anyway, it's a long story.
Merlin: It's a long story.
Merlin: I'd be happy to talk about it.
Merlin: But the whole recycling thing is a mess right now.
Merlin: China's not taking our junk anymore.
John: China's not taking our junk, I know.
Merlin: Well, here's what you need to know, Axios.
Merlin: Be smart.
Merlin: Here's the one thing you need to know today is that what happened in the 90s that created the recycling economy was a... Stays in the 90s, am I right?
Merlin: Up here.
Merlin: What the...
Merlin: A silly one.
Merlin: It's already a silly one.
Merlin: It was a, one might say, perfect storm of economic conditions that led to what became a seemingly normal recycling thing, which was that the fuel... Do you know about this?
John: Yeah, we've talked about this.
John: We've talked about this.
Merlin: Fuel was cheap.
Merlin: Labor was cheap.
John: Chinese labor was cheap.
John: There was a lot of feeling like, oh yeah, this is a burgeoning market of recycling American trash.
Merlin: And it seemed to us as people who just do whatever, because you might remember when I was in college and we started a recycling program at my school, you had to have different colored bottles in different things.
Merlin: You couldn't have green, brown, clear.
Merlin: You had to separate out your Heineken from your Miller Lite.
John: The problem was half of those bottles were full of chew spit.
Merlin: Oh, gosh, and the cigarette butts.
Merlin: But China, China, they got people for that.
John: What are you going to do when you rip the label off and then stuff it in the bottle?
John: Who's going to take that out?
John: Who's going to take that out?
John: Not even anybody in China is going to do that.
Merlin: But that was a false economy.
Merlin: So here's the thing.
Merlin: Here's the balance I'm trying to strike.
Merlin: These guys, they charge a lot.
Merlin: They will come the same day.
Merlin: They give me the assurance that somebody is going to do the right thing with this.
Merlin: Here's what I do believe.
Merlin: I do believe they will take it to a landfill.
Merlin: My concern with getting a super inexpensive junk hauler, my concern is they're just going to drop it off on a corner somewhere.
Merlin: And now we're back to that original problem.
John: Oh, you know what they're going to do?
John: They're going to go stuff it in the same public garbage can.
Merlin: Hey, this is my trash.
Merlin: Yeah, you're wasting.
Merlin: Well, $175 and you go and you put it in a can?
Merlin: Here's one of my questions.
John: Yes.
John: Ready?
Mm-hmm.
John: wouldn't composting stuff like, like, like, you know, coffee grounds and stuff.
John: Yeah.
John: If it went into the regular garbage, wouldn't that be better because it would be adding water?
John: dirt and organic stuff to the garbage garbage you're thinking big picture we're creating a biome yeah helping the garbage get helping the bad garbage helping the garbage helping it's hell so we take the stuff that helps the garbage
John: They're like rotting bananas.
John: Yeah.
John: And we sequester them, and I don't know what we do with them.
Merlin: Well, reuse is better than recycling.
Merlin: If you can use the banana as a container or turn it into banana bread, that's the preference.
Merlin: But I hear what you're saying.
Merlin: Now, the restaurants I used to work at, they would always say, hey, make sure glass doesn't break into this because we sell the scraps to hog farmers, is what they'd say.
John: Right, right, right.
John: Hog farmers.
Merlin: Hog farmers in Pasco County, one imagines.
John: Well, and, you know, all that cooking oil goes into those Mercedes-Benz, those 1980 Mercedes-Benz diesel wagons.
John: Is that what they do?
John: Yeah.
John: French fry oil, right?
John: Yeah.
John: Those are being driven out to Burning Man all the time.
John: And it smells like French fries.
John: Can you imagine that?
Merlin: When I smell diesel, I always think of Disney World.
Merlin: Because like the trams that would take you from Dopey 35 to the ticketing area, that very distinctive smell, that to me is the smell of diesel.
John: I've never been to Disney.
John: Oh, you've been to Disneyland.
John: Yeah, and there were trams in Disneyland.
John: But, you know, growing up where I did...
John: The pure amount of fuel smells that characterized— You're talking in Alaska here.
John: In Alaska in the 70s, where it was just like, you know, a guy would say, here, hold my running chainsaw while I fire up this diesel generator to power my diesel-powered—
John: uh, you know, like lighthouse.
Merlin: And I drive that lighthouse to work where I work on the, on the pipeline, the titular pipeline.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: And the, and the lighthouse had a bulldozer blade.
John: It was very confusing time, but everything smelled like burning gas.
John: I remember I was, my dad, I think my dad was seeing this lady and we went to, uh, she was running the office of some company that, that like leased bulldozers.
John: And this was in the middle of town.
John: This was like, this was like five blocks from my high school.
John: And so we drove over there.
John: This is like 77 or something.
John: We drove over there to the office, and there were a bunch of bulldozers and backhoes and stuff parked around the office.
John: This was right off of Lake Otis, for those of you playing at home.
John: But Lake Otis at the time was dirt.
John: It's not dirt anymore.
John: Now it's like a big, busy street.
John: But then it was a dirt street.
John: And he went into the office and then he was like, why don't you play around on the bulldozers?
John: Because I've got some business to do.
John: Now, when I think when I look back at it now, I'm like, were they making out?
John: Like, is this some type of thing?
John: It was one of those offices that had like wood paneling.
John: that seemed kind of plasticky, you know, that 70s.
Merlin: Oh, do you think maybe it was a little bit of misdirection, like go practice the car while we tongue kiss?
John: He used to do this type of thing all the time where we would go somewhere on an important mission and then we'd get there and he would say, here kid, go play in traffic or give me a dollar and he'd say, go over to the bar and ask him to give you a shot glass full of whipped cream or whatever while I talk to this important lady.
John: Okay.
John: And then whatever, like an hour and a half later, he would show up and he'd be like, all right, let's get out of here.
John: And at the time I was just like, oh, my dad is so boring.
John: But now I'm looking back and I'm like, hmm.
John: Anyway, so this was one of those.
Merlin: Bulldozer and backhoe lot.
John: It was bulldozer.
John: It was bulldozer and backhoe lot.
John: So he's like, go play in traffic.
John: So I'm out there and I'm playing on the bulldozers and I'm just like, but this was also during a time.
John: I think you remember this.
John: When any cigarette machine...
John: had a button on it that you could push, and it would give you free matches.
John: Free matches, yep.
Merlin: I do remember that.
Merlin: Most of the time.
Merlin: Every bar.
Merlin: Every bar had those machines.
Merlin: And the big chunk chunk where you pull the thing out, you put in your dollar and a quarter or whatever it was for a pack of cigarettes and get the chunk chunk.
Merlin: But you could also get it.
Merlin: There was like a match pull.
John: There was a match pull.
John: Free matches.
John: Wow.
John: I remember the first cigarette machine I saw that wasn't a pull, that was a button.
John: It still made the same like, but it was a button.
John: Anyway, so I always – at nine years old, I always had matches.
John: I had matches with me everywhere.
John: And so I'm sitting out.
John: I'm playing in the – I'm playing out with the bulldozers.
John: I'm like lighting matches and I'm sitting and I'm pretending to bulldoze.
John: And there's a backhoe where the hoe part, the bucket –
John: is turned back up you know it kind of looks like a it's it's in its parked position where the bucket is kind of like tucked back up under the arm facing up you know like a bucket like a bucket yeah and it's full of water like right to the top oh it's a giant bucket full of water yeah and so i you know i'm kind of like i walk over and i don't remember exactly how but i'm like flicking matches lighting matches and flicking them as you do
John: And I flick one into the bucket and it catches on fire.
Merlin: Oh, no.
John: Because of the preponderance of fuel?
John: I think that the bucket was just full of fuel.
John: Oh, my God.
John: I think that they had this extra fuel.
John: I don't know what – I don't know how they would have – so anyway, so the bucket is just like a – it's just like a cauldron now.
Merlin: Or it could be like a northern Ohio River where it's water but combustible because it's got so much fuel in it.
John: Right, with six inches of fuel on the top.
John: Yeah.
John: I have no idea.
John: Whoa.
John: I have no idea if you had like 20 gallons of gas, why you would store it in the upturned bucket of a backhoe.
John: It doesn't seem like what you would do.
Merlin: It would have to be an accident because fuel costs money, even in the 70s.
Merlin: Yeah, not much.
Merlin: Well, not a lot, but how would you liberate the fuel later on for use in a vehicle?
John: Right, exactly.
John: That's exactly the question.
John: What are you going to do, siphon this gas out of the bucket?
John: It seems like you could have just...
John: thought of that before we put it in the barrel yeah anyway so i'm standing there and i'm kind of because i obviously right i was a pyro like anybody sure so i have succeeded in creating a very pyro situation yeah which is i've set this bucket of water on fire
John: And so I'm standing there and I'm doing my little incantations.
John: I'm warming my hands over it.
John: And, you know, and I'm just like, I've got a bucket of fire.
John: And I get back in the backhoe and I pretend that I'm back hoeing, I don't know, fire.
John: I'm having a blast.
John: Yeah.
John: And, you know, no one is monitoring me.
John: There's a big there's a big.
John: plate glass window right there, that if they were inside doing some kind of business, you feel like they would have noticed.
Merlin: There'd be a guy in a clip-on tie and shirt sleeves running out going, hey,
John: Right.
John: Except the except this is what makes me suspicious about my dad's mission.
Merlin: It was like there was no finger blasting in the back room.
Merlin: You're not going to notice the bucket of fire.
John: Right.
John: And no one else was there.
John: We were there.
John: I don't know.
John: After hours on a Saturday, some reason that there was no one else there.
John: So I sat out and played with the bucket of fire for what seems like pretty long time to leave a nine year old just having his own his own fire time.
John: And then eventually my dad came out completely with the lady and they have completely like non plus or just that's the misuse or the right use.
Merlin: They were unaffected.
John: They were blase and they were like, hey, we need to put that out.
John: Yeah, let's go.
John: And she's and they.
Merlin: She's not emotionally concerned about her equipment containing fire.
John: This is her stuff.
John: That's weird.
John: They said something to the effect that they had noticed it on fire.
John: They saw me set it on fire.
John: And they were fine with it to let it play out while they continued to conduct their business, which now again makes me suspicious.
John: Boy, something's not adding up.
John: Because they saw it?
John: Yeah.
John: I mean, I'm not a helicopter parent, but if I saw my daughter set a backhoe bucket on fire, I would probably go out and say, like, what are you doing, honey?
Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I thought it was a different time.
Merlin: It was a different time.
Merlin: I was listening to Jonathan Goldstein's podcast, Heavyweight is Back, and the story this week, no spoilers, but it's about at a time in the 70s when these kids are encouraged by their father to take a three-day bike trip.
Merlin: to another town, just up to nothing.
Merlin: So they brought a cup of ramen.
Merlin: They got $40 in cash.
Merlin: They've got coins for payphones, just in case anything comes up.
Merlin: And the kids are like 10, 11, that age.
John: That's more than I had when I set off across the country the first time.
John: Really?
John: Yeah, but I jumped out of the car at a truck stop, and then I had a fantastic journey all the way back.
Merlin: You know, it was a different time.
Merlin: And kids would just go.
Merlin: I mean, in the case of like now, like my wife's family, they were told to leave the house.
Merlin: And that was a very safe, you know, Rhode Island neighborhood.
Merlin: But they were told to leave the house and not come back until the streetlights came on.
Merlin: Don't come in this house.
Merlin: You may not watch television.
Merlin: You may not pass go.
Merlin: You need to go be outside until it's nighttime.
John: Yes.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: And my mom would have been happy to keep me in a bell jar if she could.
Merlin: She just didn't.
Merlin: She knew the woods were full of knives and child molesters.
Merlin: And so I stayed in the house and read, you know, Family Circle magazine or whatever.
Merlin: That Jeffy.
Merlin: not me no family circle the ladies magazine not family circus right right right i'm not a monster family circus magazine that'd be a really good i'd get that it's no calvin and hobbs but what is not me and what's
Merlin: what's he doing all those steps so it's motivating to me uh and again it's not lindsey graham which is good uh and so uh that that's what i'm dealing with now here we are we are um 26 minutes in no call yet so i hope we're still on so you know i have a junk hauler you got you do you have a guy a a team of guys okay um
John: So we refer to them colloquially as the Samoans.
John: It's an uncle who came from Samoa, and then he became like an anchor relative, and then all of his cousins and nephews—
John: And presumably nieces, but I only ever meet the nephews.
John: Chain migration.
John: Yeah.
John: And so he has access to a seemingly unlimited number of nephews.
John: He's got all-you-can-eat Samoans.
John: If you say, I need some stuff taken out of the garage, he'll show up with a nephew.
John: If you say, I have a swimming pool full of lumber center blocks.
John: Wet lumber.
John: Yeah.
John: He'll show up with four nephews.
Merlin: That's so interesting.
Merlin: So with me, they always want to say, like, okay, what do you got?
Merlin: And I say, I got four contractor bags, some flat cardboard boxes.
Merlin: In this case, it's more like it's less just to know how much of the truck is going to be taken up for the junk boys.
Merlin: In this guy's case, he just wants to know how many relatives to bring.
John: Yeah, and the thing about the Samoans is they also have a – like a ragtag fugitive fleet of different trucks and other vehicles.
John: So sometimes –
John: they'll show up in a pickup truck.
John: Sometimes they'll show up in two pickup trucks.
John: Sometimes there's a box truck.
John: Sometimes there's a flatbed truck.
John: Wow.
John: And it's always, and the thing is we're now, we have, we've had a relationship for many years.
John: And so it's all very friendly.
John: We know what the, we know all the deal we've talked about every, I mean, I know all about their family back in the islands.
John: I know like, I know the story who's going to college and who's not.
John: And they are extremely, you know, it's not like a by-hour thing.
John: It's just, you know, number one uncle, like the man, surveys the scene, kind of lifts up a thumb like an old-fashioned artist, squints one eye.
John: Oh, for context.
John: And says, hmm, how's 400 bucks?
John: Mm-hmm.
John: And I always pay exactly what he says.
John: Like I never, it's not like I'm going to haggle with him because how many nephews do I have?
John: Zero.
John: None.
John: So, uh, so they have become sort of members of the family.
John: Like when we're talking about stuff, uh, around the house and it's like, well, what are we going to do with that?
John: Well, let's, I don't know.
John: Well, we call us moans and they, but cause they also do other things.
John: I mean, I'm pretty sure if I called them right now,
Merlin: they would come over and I could, I mean, I could think of something for... This is a powerful class from a D&D sense.
Merlin: There's a certain kind of, there's this sort of a, usually a fella, almost always a fella, but who is maybe used to call handyman,
Merlin: You got a combination of like, you know, you could be like what?
Merlin: You could be like, you know, a fighter magic user.
Merlin: And in this case, you've got somebody who's like a handy person slash hauler.
Merlin: And that can be extremely powerful.
John: Well, yeah, because they can do skilled work.
John: They can do unskilled work.
John: They can do work in between.
Merlin: They just tend to be good at all the stuff that I'm not good at.
Merlin: And I will pay handsomely for that.
John: yeah yeah yeah me too well and you know me i like to have friends do stuff yeah you know if you can although i had although this weekend i was at a i was at a gathering and there was a there's a husband of a friend of mine at the gathering and the friend and i have uh i feel like we are close the friend and i and there was a time when i sort of like
John: I don't know.
John: I was like, do you want to date you and me?
John: And she was like, no.
John: I was like, that's cool.
John: I mean, you know, I was just throwing it out there.
John: This is a long time ago.
John: But we're friends.
John: Anyway, she married this guy.
John: Who's extremely handsome.
John: Like astonishingly handsome.
John: He makes James Franco look like Sid Caesar.
John: And so he's very handsome.
John: And he's also, he's handy.
John: You know, he's got hands.
John: When you look at his hands, you're like, ooh, ooh, those are good.
John: You know, he's got veins.
John: He's got veins in his wrists that make his hands look beautiful.
John: stronger yeah he probably never struggles with a jar nope he'll open a jar he'd do it right now the hardest jar you have hardest jar and look good doing it yeah so anyway i'm sitting i'm talking to him and it's always been a little uncomfortable because you know history stuff whatever but uh but so i said so what are you doing these days and he said oh you know just sort of doing i mean i'm you know i've got my contractor license but i don't really like to be a contractor i just kind of like to do all the work myself
John: And I was like, really?
John: Because, you know, I'm always looking for somebody that wants to do some work, who wants to do the work himself and doesn't want to get all like, you know.
John: And he's like, yeah.
Merlin: Fussing with permits and all that stuff.
John: Let's keep City Hall out of this.
John: We got to hire a guy for this.
John: It's like, nah, come on, between you and me, we can work at it.
John: So he said, yeah, well, you know, I've got a thing wrapping up.
John: And after that, I'm just sort of, you know, looking for a thing to do.
John: And I'm like, do I?
John: You know, I've got a little list.
Merlin: Oh, me too.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: I've got a list of electrical stuff.
Merlin: I've got a list of plummy stuff.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: A little bit of tiling, maybe some rough-in carpentry.
John: So we're talking and he's like, yeah, I'm totally into it.
John: Like, let's do it.
John: And then my friend, his wife walks up and we're like, she's like, what are you guys talking about?
John: And I'm like, oh, well, we're just talking about, you know, some stuff.
John: Maybe your husband would do some stuff.
John: And then we both look at her and he kind of looks at her like, and I look at her and I go, I mean, if that's like cool.
John: Oh, she, she might object.
Yeah.
John: for whatever variety of reasons.
John: And she said, she looked at me and she was like, you mean, is it going to get weird?
John: No, it's not going to get weird.
John: It's fine.
John: And then I realized like, Oh, this is right.
John: Like he and I both needed to get final approval on this.
John: Like, even though it was like, here we are, we're just two fellas talking about like, maybe it'll do a little light electrical.
John: Yeah.
John: But we both kind of needed to, to get like,
Merlin: I think in a relationship, it doesn't hurt to get the okie-dokie.
John: Yep.
John: Nope.
John: Nope.
John: Absolutely not.
John: But I also needed approval from her because I think she was like, if it's going to get weird, it's you that's going to make it weird.
John: And I was like, yeah, it probably would be.
John: But it's fine, right?
John: Because he and I are going to be fine.
John: We'll be over there talking about 220, 221, whatever.
John: And so everything's cool.
John: But the idea of having – the problem is having him as my guy where it's like, hey, ring, ring, ring.
John: Hey, I've got another thing.
John: He is the husband of a friend like a peer and that becomes a little complicated, right?
John: When you're hiring –
John: Like, it's one thing to hire a friend.
Merlin: It's another thing to hire a husband of friends.
Merlin: Yeah, I can see that.
John: You know, then it's like, oh, here's your pay, husband of friend.
Merlin: Well, and if there's any, I mean, just not to say there's going to be a problem, but if there were to be some kind of a disagreement...
Merlin: about the quality of the job for the amount proffered, that could be awkward.
John: The thing is, I think that's what she was saying when she said, is it going to get weird?
John: She wasn't saying anything about history.
John: She was saying, is it going to get weird if there's a problem?
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Oh, it's like a Rorschach test.
Merlin: Like, when you look at this and you say, what's the possible problem here?
Merlin: It depends on your POV.
Merlin: That's not what I would have guessed.
John: Right.
John: Right, exactly.
John: And what she, I think what she is saying is, what she was saying when she said, it's fine, and what we both understood her to be saying was, she was saying, I will adjudicate any dispute.
Right.
John: Oh, interesting.
John: Where he and I were both like, oh, right.
John: We both, obviously he trusts her because she's his wife and I trust her because I just trust her.
John: And so we had what I think isn't quite an independent arbiter, arbitrator.
John: But what I was doing in that moment was saying, yes, I will let you arbitrate any disputes, wife of...
John: My new handyman.
John: And and that was the thing.
John: That was the treaty.
John: Right.
John: Yeah.
John: But you have to have it.
John: You have to have a treaty.
John: You know, I fell out with the Samoans a little bit because because we didn't quite have it.
John: We didn't have all the terms of the treaty hammered out.
John: Because when I said I have all this shit in the bottom of my pool and they shut and he was like, great, I'll get four nephews and we'll and it'll and it's going to cost four nephews.
John: He showed up.
John: They started to work.
John: They worked and worked and worked.
John: And then at the bottom of the pool, I forgot to mention that at some point along the way I had thrown 15 bags of concrete down there.
John: That had all, you know, because of the wet, had become 50 solid bags of just solid concrete.
John: And he was like, and it's at the bottom of a pool, right?
John: He can't.
John: It's like one thing to like toss.
Merlin: I could see him saying that wasn't in the bid I gave you.
John: That wasn't in the bid.
John: That's right.
John: And I said, well, so how much extra do you need to do the concrete that I forgot to tell you about?
John: And he threw another number out.
John: And I was like, fine, sold.
John: But he said, I have to come back tomorrow.
John: And I was like, fine, no problem.
John: And then he didn't come back.
John: Oh, okay.
John: So that was the falling out where it was like, oh, dear.
John: We got so close.
John: We got right up to the concrete bags.
John: But the problem was it was like the day before the open house.
John: So when the open house finally happened, there was all this...
Merlin: stuff at the bottom of the pool so it's just a little bit about you know what it was it was i didn't call the junk guy until the day of yeah yeah that's that's a risk that's a risk so in that case now because ideally when you got an open house or similar you want to have the house set up in a way where you can both see that this is not it's not haunted and a normal person lives here now but also i can imagine myself living here
Merlin: And unless they have an attachment to putting concrete and wet logs into the pool, it would be better for it to be more strictly pool looking.
John: Yeah, right.
John: Exactly.
John: Right.
John: Like if they are moving into the place and they're like, why did the guy empty out the pool?
John: I'm just going to throw a bunch of lumber and concrete into it too.
John: Yeah.
John: But I think typically that's not what they were.
John: That's not what I wanted to offer people.
John: Yeah.
John: And and yeah.
John: So anyway, but but, you know, but like the Simones and I are like totally will always be good.
John: We'll always be fine.
Merlin: I'm sorry you had a rift in that relationship.
Merlin: When I get into a situation like that, see, the Junk Boys, who I hope will call me soon.
Merlin: When I get into a situation with folks like that, you know, it doesn't bring out my better angels.
Merlin: Because I know I'm getting screwed.
Merlin: And it's so, you know me, I'm Holden Caulfield.
Merlin: It's so difficult for me to play a little game.
Merlin: with people about this.
Merlin: I almost want to say, look, I know you're going to screw me.
Merlin: That's fine.
Merlin: Just please do it quickly.
Merlin: And let's not pretend that we have a relationship here.
Merlin: I had to call AT&T to do some switchy-changey stuff with those devices.
Merlin: And there's certain kinds of things where you have to call them, where they won't let you make certain changes online.
Merlin: And they sit on hold while they tell you that your problem can hopefully be solved online.
Merlin: Could you please go there?
Merlin: But I got a real good person who was very nice because the thing was taking – it took about an hour to fix, and they were real nice about helping me.
Merlin: But they're like, can I read you this statement?
Merlin: I'm like, yeah, it's fine.
Merlin: I agree to everything.
Merlin: Renew my contract for 17 years.
Merlin: I know I don't have any choice.
Merlin: If I'm talking to AT&T or I'm talking to Comcast or I'm talking to any of those folks, I just –
Merlin: It's one thing I wish I could just get on with them and say, like, here's my problem.
Merlin: Charge me whatever ridiculous amount you're going to charge me.
Merlin: But at least the only dignity I ask from you is that we not try to turn this into something that's convivial.
Merlin: oh you don't want to be their friend well you know i got friends i'm good you know i'm good for friends i don't need a new friend and it's not because i'm not a hard-hearted man i uh i like people mostly but like it's just when those when these guys when these junk boys if they if they do come today they're gonna come and we're gonna go go through a whole thing there's always a lead and there's a wingman they come with two guys in their truck and they're like oh
Merlin: I have to have all the conversations.
Merlin: No, I've been ruined by you people many times.
Merlin: Put it on my file that I don't need to have this.
Merlin: Just charge me the stupid minimum that you have to charge me.
Merlin: Yes, I'm aware you have.
Merlin: Yes, yeah.
John: Wait, wait, wait, wait.
John: Do you think, are you suggesting, do you think that they are instructed at their training center to
John: when they're trained to be junk people?
Merlin: Yeah, the Junk Training Institute of Technology.
John: Yeah, when they head out in the morning, do you think that their supervisor says, now remember, go down the, you know, try and make friends with them and go, are they just reading from a checklist?
Merlin: That's a really good question.
Merlin: I can only tell you, so here's a couple things.
Merlin: First of all, I think this is the kind of service you mostly call
Merlin: Normal people call once in a lifetime when a family member dies and you want to get their shit out of the house.
John: Oh, it's like a crime scene cleaner.
Merlin: You're not going to call them twice.
John: Kind of.
Merlin: No, no, you don't need them on a monthly basis, hopefully.
John: God willing.
John: Although, if you had a crime scene cleaner on retainer?
Merlin: Oh, it'd be so handy.
Merlin: I would make so many different decisions if I knew I could get a crime scene.
Merlin: But okay, so here's what I know about this.
Merlin: I'm pretty sure it's a franchise business.
Merlin: I'm pretty sure it's something where, you know, and I used to work for a company that was a franchise business.
Merlin: I have a rough idea of how these things work.
Merlin: You generally buy in for a certain amount.
Merlin: You pay whatever, five to six figures to buy into this franchise, which gives you the right to use the name
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: Here's what I'm saying.
Merlin: I'm saying it's not corporate McDonald's.
Merlin: I doubt that these trucks are furnished by 1-800-Junkboys in Stanford, Connecticut.
Merlin: I kind of doubt that.
Merlin: I think it's a franchise business.
Merlin: 1-800-Junkboys.
Merlin: But here's what I know.
Merlin: Here's what I know.
Merlin: It's very similar each time, and it feels like they're used to dealing with people who've never done this before.
Merlin: They're very explainy, and one of their big values things that they sell is they clean up when they're done, and they sweep, and I'm like, I don't really need that.
Merlin: Just take my trash, charge me.
Merlin: But okay, so here's the other thing, though.
Merlin: This is the most...
Merlin: not most annoying, but one of the most eye-rolly things to me is, let's just say, let's put it this way.
Merlin: They have a minimum charge of, let's say, 10 units.
Merlin: Okay, 10 units.
Merlin: I don't like talking about money.
Merlin: But not homeowner monetary units.
Merlin: Oh, God, no.
Merlin: Haven't forfend.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: Let's say they got a minimum charge...
Merlin: 10 units.
Merlin: They come in and say, well, you know, this really is going to be an eighth of a truck and, you know, we've got a minimum of 10 units.
Merlin: I'm like, I understand.
Merlin: Believe me, I paid a lot of units.
Merlin: I'm good with your arrangement.
Merlin: And then here's the thing.
Merlin: They go, okay, well, we'll take care of it.
Merlin: Beep-a-doop.
Merlin: And, oh, we've got an office here.
Merlin: You like X-Men?
Merlin: Yeah, just take my stuff.
Merlin: I want to get my fun, take a nap, like leave.
Merlin: You're like, ugh.
Merlin: And then here's the most godly part, is then at the end, they come out and go, okay, well, we'll email you the receipt, and how do you want to pay, and derp, derp.
Merlin: And I say, just, ah, take my units.
Merlin: Take the units and leave.
Merlin: And then they always do this and go, oh, you know what?
Merlin: Actually, we were able to bring the price down, so we're only going to charge you nine units.
John: Oh.
John: Oh, if they do this every time?
Merlin: So if they come in and they give me... Then it's a bit, right?
Merlin: It's got to be a bit.
Merlin: Oh, dude, they might give me... I've gotten some big hauling jobs where maybe daddy didn't take out the trash as often as he should.
Merlin: Let's put it that way.
Merlin: And they'll say, okay, this is going to be...
Merlin: this is going to be 35 units.
Merlin: And you go, okay, just go.
Merlin: And they go, you know, actually we were able to bring it down to 32 units.
Merlin: Like I'm supposed to be super grateful for their unit reduction, but they do it every time.
Merlin: Like I'm never going to figure out that that's part of their racket.
Merlin: Don't they understand they got a live one?
Merlin: They got a live one.
Merlin: I'm the live one.
John: Me.
John: My question about that technique is the only reason you would do that, like we managed to get it down to 32 units.
John: There's two reasons.
John: One would be that you want to entice a person to think, hey, these guys are a good deal.
John: Yeah.
John: And so I'm going to use them again.
John: But if they do it every time.
John: Yeah.
John: Then the only people that are going to be mad about it are the ones that you actually succeeded in getting to use your thing again.
Merlin: It does not stand up to logic.
Merlin: It could also be that they want a good Yelp review.
John: There's that or they could be trying to preempt any complaints you might have.
John: Because if they bumped it down from 35 to 32 units, you're already getting a good deal.
Merlin: I bet they get a lot of dickering.
Merlin: I bet they get their fair share of dickering.
Merlin: But the thing is, I called you and I scheduled it.
Merlin: I'm on the hook.
Merlin: I already filled out the form in the other form and sent it in and got the emails.
Merlin: And I already been through it.
Merlin: So, like, I am.
Merlin: I'm the live one.
Merlin: I'm on the hook.
Merlin: But you're absolutely right.
Merlin: It does not...
Merlin: bode well for how often people reuse them unless you're an idiot like me who does not have receptacles that's on that's on me and to some extent on my landlord because i don't think he wants to have a trash office no he would he would prefer they not because you know that's gonna be bad for his insurance right somebody somebody shows up gotta look at the sprinklers uh-oh can't come in too much trash all those pots of family circus magazine police tape police tape
John: I promise it's not always like this.
John: If you want to get in and get to your Wilberforce doll, there's going to be a bunch of cops out there.
Merlin: Oh, I've made paths.
Merlin: I could send you some photos, but I'm not.
Merlin: I've made paths.
John: I mean, I never thought of you as a hoarder.
John: Hmm.
John: You were just somebody that had a lot of post-it notes and some stuff.
Merlin: I did a big clean here, I don't know how many months ago at this point.
Merlin: It is, as I say at the top of the show, I said it's a therapeutic thing I do sometimes where I go, so here's what I do.
Merlin: I have to balance, oh my gosh, I don't like having one and a half contractor bags of garbage.
Merlin: right even if it's in a bag it's still garbage but i have to balance that with the 10 units and do i again i just i have so little dignity left but like to pay 10 units to have someone take away when i have contractor bags so do you also feel uh weird about half of a garbage bag
John: I mean, do you feel like a garbage bag needs to be filled up all the way before you can throw it away?
Merlin: Oh, you know, that's a good question.
Merlin: You mean like in a regular, just an ongoing basis, like at home?
John: Sort of in an OCD question, because I won't put a garbage bag in the garbage can until the garbage bag is full.
Merlin: Well, spoken like somebody whose trash is on the ground floor.
Merlin: My thing is, my problem is, you get into a Barton-Lisa situation where, like, you know, well, first of all, I'm the trash captain.
Merlin: Okay, trash captain, right?
Merlin: I'm not the sea captain, but I am the trash captain.
Merlin: I handle all, well, I'm the supply sergeant and the trash captain.
Merlin: So one of my numerous household duties is to make sure that nobody ever has to say, wow, that trash sure is full.
John: Now, yes, now, I'm on... Now, wait a minute.
John: I would just like to say that I just Googled trash captain.
John: Yes.
John: Is there porn of it?
John: You will love the fact that there is a Captain Trash.
John: And Captain Trash is dressed like a sea captain.
John: He teaches kids of the five arcs.
Merlin: Captain Trash.
Merlin: He looks like a pirate.
Merlin: Oh, he sure does.
John: But he's about trash.
John: Captain Trash.
John: He's Captain Trout.
John: Oh, look at that guy.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: We need to get you a Captain.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: Maybe this is a franchise.
John: Maybe we pay into this.
Merlin: He's got a tiny little Flying V ukulele.
Merlin: As captains do.
Merlin: He does.
Merlin: Huh.
John: He's playing it left-handed.
John: He found it in the trash, which is what would happen if you bought a flying bee.
John: There's also a captain.
Merlin: There's a captain compost trash, captain Falcon.
Merlin: There's garbage man.
Merlin: Huh?
Merlin: I shouldn't use Google.
Merlin: I'm going to close this.
John: What I want to know is how does all, what happens to your trash when super train comes?
Merlin: I imagine it goes into the slurry.
John: Well, I know, but are you, do you, do you even have a slurry or a slurry?
John: Do you have, do you have high power trash or do you have low power trash?
Merlin: um that's a good question i mean i feel like i i it is a pretty uh it's pretty as i say in darts pretty tight grouping like i've got i've got you know things that were used to bring water to me i've got a lot of those things right right right i like i i have a brand that i like and i like canada dry i've settled on canada dry
John: Now, when did you migrate off of Safeway Select?
John: Safeway Refreshy?
Merlin: A few years back.
Merlin: You know what it is?
Merlin: It's a very long story.
Merlin: But it will depend on the different vendors.
Merlin: And I have a spreadsheet that lets me know which ones are the cheapest.
Merlin: Super Train... Wait, there's one other thread to close.
Merlin: Oh yeah, so all I was going to say was, up to your garbage bag capacity question, I don't like to waste the bags, but here's the thing with recycling.
Merlin: So our recycling...
Merlin: So we have – I hoisted the bin that we used to use for recycling back in the day, which is like one of those little like foot and a half tall bucket things.
Merlin: I don't know if you've ever seen these.
Merlin: Before you move into like super recycling, you're doing a little recycling in the city.
Merlin: You get one of these little like – I'd call it a small bin.
Merlin: It's probably like a –
Merlin: maybe 15 to 20 gallon bin but it's not a garbage can it's a bin it yeah and so it's the the form factor is it's kind of like a low to the ground situation here's what's cool about this life hack it exactly accommodates an ikea blue plastic frocta bag whoa life hack so i don't know if you've ever gotten into the frocta bags
John: Well, you know, but that's, you know, the bag.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: So the bag you use when you go to Ikea, right?
Merlin: Aren't you stealing them?
Merlin: No, no, no, no.
Merlin: I buy them.
Merlin: Oh, okay.
Merlin: I buy them and I use them for lots of things.
Merlin: Ready for this life hack.
Merlin: Keep a clean, unused, folded up one in your suitcase.
Merlin: Cause guess what?
Merlin: You're always going to need another bag.
John: Fructabag.
Merlin: Fructabags.
Merlin: Look it up.
Merlin: And so, but what's beautiful is, oh, it's so satisfying.
Merlin: You know, like a things fitting in other things, you know, kind of tumbler.
Merlin: The Fructabag exactly fits.
Merlin: Oh, I think there's a tumbler of things that fit in other things.
Merlin: But the Fructabag precisely fits exactly perfectly into the former recycling bin that we've now repurposed into our home bin.
John: Now, here's the thing.
John: Things fitting perfectly into other things.
John: It is a Tumblr, yeah.
Merlin: There's also a really good one Max told me about called, I think it's called Just Two Things, and it's terrible pop culture mashups, usually t-shirts.
Merlin: Oof, so many good Tumblrs.
John: Apparently, Oreos will fit perfectly into a Mentos tube.
Merlin: Here's the problem with this entire enterprise.
Merlin: I'm going to spoil things fitting in other things for you.
Merlin: It's that there are common sizes of things.
Merlin: It's because you don't, you rarely, oh, the CD is exactly the size.
Merlin: Well, yeah, of course it's exactly the size.
Merlin: That's exactly this many millimeters across.
Merlin: That's what makes it a CD.
Merlin: The reason things fit in other things is because things have sizes and they fit.
Merlin: things have sizes i see yes now it all makes sense but the fructa bag the fructa bag think about a fructa bag when you go to ikea it's a pretty good sized bag now i we will fill that up with recycling especially if you're not as good of a crusher as i am i i crush in-house a lot of the time because i'm the trash captain and i'm i'm the one who has to take it down now if that thing gets too full let's say i come back
Merlin: And the denizens of our house have been putting things into it, and it's ready to tumble over.
Merlin: I've learned.
Merlin: I say to myself, I say, you know what?
Merlin: You're the trash captain.
Merlin: Don't get to where it's too full.
Merlin: Don't do that.
Merlin: Take it down.
Merlin: Now, in that case, that's a reusable Fracta bag.
Merlin: For the compost bags, those things are costly, and they break super easy.
Merlin: But I still inevitably do wait until the 13-gallon compost bag is full.
Merlin: It weighs...
Merlin: 28 pounds when I take it down probably.
Merlin: And so I should be better about taking that down sooner.
Merlin: But again, the trash captain lives, you know, above the ground floor, let's just say.
Merlin: Trash captain's got to carry a lot of heavy trash down every time.
Merlin: Right, you got to schlepping.
Merlin: And there's a narrow passageway.
Merlin: I call it the kill zone.
Merlin: The area of trying to get down our steps and out the door is the kill zone.
Merlin: That's where we will die when we trip on the children's shoes.
Merlin: I've got to navigate that with the frock to bag.
Merlin: Often I'm grasping the simple human receptacle that has the compost bag in it.
Merlin: And I'm trying to get that all done, get down those steps without tripping on the children's shoes and dying.
Merlin: And so I don't do it as much as I should.
John: Just to go back to the Frocta bag.
John: Yeah.
John: Is this a thing, is a Frocta bag a thing where it's like a cheapo utilitarian Ikea thing, but it's become another thing where it's like J-Lo would carry it or something?
Merlin: No, I don't think so.
Merlin: I don't think so.
Merlin: The Frocta bag is, if you ever, as you the listener, it's the bag that you use at Ikea when you're shopping.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: And it's made out of other old plastic things, I think.
Merlin: It's like a woven, not waterproof, but pretty water-resistant.
Merlin: I don't know what it's rated.
Merlin: If you've got too much seltzer water in there, it's going to make a mess.
John: But you know what I mean in the sense of like... Has it become like a status symbol?
John: Yeah, like post-industrial sort of like it's recycled already, but now it's being triple-double recycled by the people that are really into bags.
Yeah.
Merlin: It's been recycled and now it's also reused.
Merlin: It's – see?
Merlin: Whoa, yes.
John: See?
John: Yes, yes, yes.
Merlin: It's the banana bread of receptacles.
Merlin: All it needs now is to be reduced.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: And you have a – See, I don't reduce.
Merlin: I buy them in amounts.
Merlin: Because the thing is, the half and half is going to get in there, and now you've got a half and half bag.
Merlin: Do you want to have that?
Merlin: How much time do you want to spend cleaning half and half out of a Fracta bag?
Merlin: Not a ton.
Merlin: So sometimes I'll put that right into the recycling.
Merlin: Now I've recycled, reused, and re-recycled a Fracta.
John: When we talk about reduce, reuse, recycle, this just occurred to me.
John: Yeah.
John: The logo is...
John: We talk about reduce, reuse, recycle as though that is like a sentence.
John: And you get to the end.
Merlin: It's the cascade.
Merlin: Reduce is the biggest one.
Merlin: If you really want to help, you must reduce.
John: But if you look at the logo, it actually is an Ouroboros.
John: And in fact, it seems like it's like a double Mobius strip.
John: Because it's not reduce, reuse, recycle.
John: It's reduce, reuse, recycle, reduce, reuse, recycle, reduce.
John: So after recycling, we reduce again.
John: It's a reduction.
John: And then you reuse again, and then you recycle again, and then you reduce again.
John: Oh, that's madness.
John: I've never thought of it that way.
John: Oh, it just never ends.
John: After you reduce, and then reuse, and then recycle, how then do you reduce again?
John: Hmm.
Merlin: Where's away?
John: Right?
John: Yeah.
John: Where is away?
John: What's the top and what's the bottom?
Merlin: I mean, in space, there is no bottom.
Merlin: Unless that's the arrangement that you have with your partner.
Merlin: You could start at reuse.
Merlin: Oh, you could jump in anywhere.
Merlin: It's like a Philip Glass song.
Merlin: It's like square dancing.
Merlin: You just swing your partner, skip to Malou.
Merlin: Yep, yep, yep.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: There is no top and bottom in space.
Merlin: You just push the book.
Merlin: You push the book from behind the bookshelf.
Merlin: You call it a spinner?
Merlin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: And then you make Murph.
Merlin: You make the dust.
Merlin: You make the dust on the ground.
John: That's how you communicate with your daughter that you love her.
Merlin: That dust is your daddy.
Merlin: Sorry, spoilers.
Merlin: Spoilers.
Merlin: So they say... Oh, wait.
Merlin: Renew is another one.
Merlin: Renew.
Merlin: Renew.
Merlin: They're trying to add a fourth arrow.
John: It's not reduce reuse.
John: It's reduce renew.
Merlin: No, no, no.
Merlin: According to 7-Eleven...
Merlin: 7-Eleven renew.
Merlin: The four R's are recycle.
Merlin: Wait.
Merlin: Oh, come on, guys.
Merlin: Recycle, reduce, reuse, renew.
Merlin: All caps.
Merlin: What is renew?
Merlin: Let's see what the 7-Eleven site says.
Merlin: The last change you can make to your daily routine will allow you to travel greener.
Merlin: By filling up with 7-Eleven renew, you can reduce your vehicle's carbon emissions by up to 30%.
Merlin: Oh, come on.
Merlin: Find a local station.
Merlin: 7-Eleven gasoline helps you renew?
Merlin: I got a lot of problems with this.
Merlin: Come on.
Merlin: You fooled me, 7-Eleven.
Merlin: You brought me into your little greenwashing world.
John: Renew.
John: I'm looking here at the recycling symbol for the nation of Taiwan.
John: And it is four arrows, suggesting that there is a fourth way.
John: But all four arrows point to the center.
John: Point to the center.
John: They're like, it goes around in a circle, but it's not... The arrows aren't pointing into one another's butts like an Ouroboros.
John: They are all swinging around and pointing to... Like the symbol for chaotic evil?
John: I think.
John: I mean, it's like there's a white X in the center.
Merlin: I'm on the Internet science page for recycling in Taiwan.
Merlin: Recycling in Taiwan has a rate of 55%.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Taipei has a recycling rate.
Merlin: The government encourages its residents to recycle by only allowing garbage to be disposed of in blue bags.
Merlin: Bags must be purchased in increasing cost.
John: Isn't it globally understood that they should be green bags?
Yeah.
Merlin: Well, that's a super good question.
Merlin: Oh, wait, no, because recycling is blue.
John: The recycle can is blue.
Merlin: It is, but the process is nominally green, even though it is literally nominally blue.
Merlin: It's figuratively nominally green.
Merlin: Right, but you don't blue wash.
Merlin: 7-Eleven's not blue-washing.
Merlin: But see, this is the funny part.
Merlin: Now, if you're listening to the podcast about this stuff, it's very upsetting, John.
Merlin: Because now what they're saying, can I tell you what they're saying?
Merlin: Have I told you this, what they're saying?
Merlin: I don't think so.
Merlin: What they're saying is, there was a, Planet Money did a thing about this, and boom, mind-blown emoji, right?
Merlin: So, apparently, turns out, turns out,
Merlin: It may be better to send plastic to the dump.
John: Well, see, this is what the articles are saying.
Merlin: I can't even say it.
Merlin: I'm doing it in a stage whisper because I'm already so upset about the people who are going to email me about this.
Merlin: But it is said that clear plastic, like with the peanut butter in it, might be better to go to the dump.
John: Well, here's what I'm saying.
John: We've always, I think, on this program advocated sending that stuff to the dump because that's what powers Supertrain.
John: Yeah.
John: Like all that stuff is going to be – all that plastic is going to be the fuel.
Merlin: The fuel for your future.
John: Yeah, that drives the backhoe full of gas that is at the heart of the Supertrain movement.
Yeah.
Merlin: You're going to be, in less than a decade, I imagine, you're going to be saying, Grandpa, what was trash?
Merlin: Right?
Merlin: Because there is no trash anymore.
Merlin: Grandpa, what was trash?
Merlin: Well, yeah.
Merlin: Nobody's going to ask what you did in the war while you sat around and posted.
Merlin: What they're going to say is, Grandpa, what was trash?
Merlin: What was trash?
Merlin: I saw something in a book today about trash, and you're going to say, well, before Supertrain, there was stuff that used to be in the dump and then was not repurposed.
John: Right.
John: Not repurposed.
John: Well, the thing is, most of those people who are saying, Grandpa, what was trash are going to be living on top of the floating gyre of trash in the center of the Pacific.
John: So it would be like it's like asking Grandpa, what is what is Earth?
John: What is what is?
Merlin: What is land?
Merlin: Sure, just like our own country.
Merlin: Well, that was our recycling solution, was let's just push it off the prow to prow of this boat and have it go straight into the fucking water.
Merlin: That was one.
Merlin: What was the other thing?
John: Burn it in incinerators.
John: Right, right.
Merlin: But there's so many turns outs.
Merlin: Oh, there's just like, it's like a quadruple turns out.
Merlin: There's so many turns out because now there is a new form of incineration that in rare cases, it's very, it's costly, but it can be like a super incinerator.
Merlin: Now you might want to file some kind of a claim against the super incinerators because I feel like they might be stepping on your blue suede shoes.
John: The thing about a super incinerator is – the thing about Supertrain is that it actually does reduce, reuse, recycle.
John: It separates all those things out, right?
John: It turns some of those plastic bags into gold dust.
John: It turns – you know, if there's gold dust in them already, right?
Merlin: There's gold dust in everything, John.
Merlin: That and Napoleon's last breath is in all sourdough bread.
Merlin: I mean there's a little bit of everything in everything and that's the concept I feel like behind Supertrain.
John: Yeah, everything is everything.
John: Everything is everything.
John: If somebody threw away a bottle of Goldschlager that had like a ballerina in the middle, like a toy ballerina that when you wound it up.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
John: That gold, the Supertrain is going to find that gold and spit it out.
John: And that's going to be the gold that pays the tolls.
John: Pays the tolls.
Merlin: But also, it's an old idea.
Merlin: So you have an old idea of trash.
Merlin: You might also have an old idea of value.
Merlin: We might be able, with SuperTrain, we're going to be discovering things that are way more valuable than gold.
Merlin: What are you going to do with gold?
Merlin: What are you going to do with diamonds?
Merlin: You know what, De Beers?
Merlin: De Beers, you know what?
Merlin: Thank you very much.
Merlin: I'm not going to take your advice about value in life.
Merlin: Pass.
Merlin: Hard pass.
John: Well, let me ask you this.
Merlin: I'm not going to have a rock cartel tell me what's valuable.
Merlin: It's madness.
John: If you're cooking hamburger, let's say you're cooking hamburger.
John: Okay.
John: And you're going to put the hamburger into something else and you don't want a bunch of grease.
John: Okay.
John: Now you're not making hamburgers.
John: You're cooking hamburger.
John: Yeah, you're brown and beef.
John: So you got a bunch of grease at the bottom.
John: Yeah.
John: Now in that moment when you pick up the hot pan off the stove.
John: Okay.
John: I'm imagining it now.
John: All right.
John: You've got a choice here.
John: Yeah.
John: A diamond.
Yeah.
John: somebody hands you a diamond or an empty carton of Ben and Jerry's where you can pour the grease.
Merlin: You wait for it to cool and then you put it in the Ben and Jerry's and it congeals.
Merlin: Okay.
John: So, so what you're going to, what you're going to pick in that moment, right?
John: Like at that moment where you're like, you got a hot pan.
John: Historically, people would say, I think most people would say diamond mostly.
John: Right, right, right.
John: But in super, like in the future, when, when things are used, are, are valuable according to their utility.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: Instead of this value according to their fanciness, which is more scarce?
John: It's a scarcity mentality, John.
John: Right.
John: There's only one Ben and Jerry, hopefully, if you're living a life of moderation, there's only one Ben and Jerry's empty Ben and Jerry's pint in the garbage at any one time.
John: Compost, hopefully.
John: Maybe two.
John: Okay.
John: You pull that out.
John: All right.
John: And here you are.
John: You've got the pan.
John: Your helper is there.
John: Yeah.
John: Empty Ben and Jerry's or a diamond.
John: What are you going to reach for?
John: You're not going to reach for the diamond.
John: I mean, sure, you could throw the hamburger on the floor, take the diamond, and storm out.
John: It scares me mentality, John.
Merlin: It's a rock.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: One thing I see with Super Train is it's not going to be four arrows, three arrows.
Merlin: We're down to one arrow.
Merlin: It just points to the train.
Merlin: That's the arrow.
Merlin: There's your logo.
Merlin: Eventually, you won't even need an arrow.
Merlin: Is it green or is it blue?
Merlin: I don't see.
Merlin: I feel like we need to pop out of this this this color centric mentality.
Merlin: I don't know what color is Super Train.
Merlin: I imagine being pitch black personally.
John: You know, I always I think black and orange, although those are the colors.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Well, for now.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah, but black, you get that special kind of black you can get, the non-blacker black.
Merlin: There's that special kind of patented black that absorbs light.
Merlin: Super dark black.
Merlin: Super dark.
Merlin: Super dark black.
John: Super dark super train.
John: And then just a pinstripe in orange.
John: Like a racing stripe, just for a little bit of visual pop.
John: And then at the very tip of it, right at the front of the train, at the tip of an air.
John: So the arrow.
John: Yes.
John: That's the arrow.
John: It's the titular arrow.
John: That's right.
John: The arrow is pointing at Supertrain, but Supertrain is also the arrow.
John: When you point at Supertrain, Supertrain points back at you.
John: That's right.
John: Here comes Supertrain.
John: It's pointing at the future.
John: It's pointing at the trash.
John: It's pointing at your useless fucking diamonds.
John: Here we go.
Merlin: You are the arrow.
Merlin: Be the arrow.
Merlin: Be the arrow.
John: Be the arrow.
Merlin: Be the arrow.
Merlin: yeah when super train comes along there's gonna be fewer and fewer options for saying no i mean you're gonna really need to get on board literally on board with this program fewer options for saying no options it's a scarcity mentality