Ep. 415: "Natural Strawberries"
Merlin: Hello.
Merlin: Hi, John.
Merlin: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: How's it going?
Merlin: How are you going?
Merlin: Oh, I'm good.
Merlin: I'm good.
Merlin: I'm good.
Merlin: Good.
Merlin: I'm good.
Merlin: We cleaned out the garage over the weekend, so I inhaled, I think, a lot of dust and feces dander.
Merlin: I've seen that garage.
Merlin: From the Mises.
Merlin: Oh, we wouldn't believe it now.
Merlin: Oh, man.
Merlin: Oh, wow.
Merlin: Found my copy of When I Pretend to Fall on CD.
Merlin: Uh-huh.
Merlin: CD, once popular media?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You don't want to know what I did.
Merlin: I went all in.
Merlin: I committed.
Merlin: How many cans of half-consumed fizzy water did you find?
John: Just a couple.
John: Because I remember you used to go down the stairs to the garage and put your half-consumed can of fizzy water.
John: You would tuck it in...
John: Various little nooks because you save it.
John: You put it there because you were going down to the garage to do something.
John: And then you would forget it was there.
Merlin: Is that what you remember?
Merlin: This is what you remember.
Merlin: There's a funny tweet a few weeks ago.
Merlin: Somebody said something like, everybody in their life has at least one beverage abandoner.
Merlin: And I don't think of myself, well, you know, how I think of myself does not necessarily reflect who I am.
Merlin: But, you know, I finish most of them.
Merlin: I finish them too fast sometimes, too much fizz.
Merlin: Yeah, a lot of burping.
Merlin: I'm committed.
Merlin: I'm committed.
Merlin: But, you know, one thing I did do is I took a Home Depot five-gallon bucket and put a bunch of seltzers and ice in it.
Merlin: And that way I had, you know, had a treat down there.
Merlin: Um, because I think, I think this is true in life.
Merlin: I really believe this is that one reason we don't succeed as well as we would like, or we procrastinate is we lack infrastructure.
Merlin: Agreed.
Merlin: So for me, that starts with me.
Merlin: The day I is a Friday morning, I wake up and I start making a list and it's a list of all the things that I need to take down to the garage or, or locate and move to the garage.
Merlin: All the things I need to make this something that I look forward to doing.
Um,
John: Wait, you do this every Friday, or you did this this past Friday?
Merlin: Well, if I did it every Friday, that would be crazy.
Merlin: That would be a new project.
Merlin: No, no, no, no.
Merlin: So I made a list, and it had stuff on it, like, you know, a bucket of seltzer.
Merlin: It had stuff on there, like utility knives, Sharpies, two kinds of tape, a HomePod, so I could listen to PowerPop.
Merlin: I like to listen to PowerPop when I'm cleaning, and it made it so much easier.
Merlin: Oh, a string.
Merlin: You always get a string or rope, you know?
Merlin: You're going to need that.
John: Oh, so this was...
John: This was garage cleaning technology support stuff.
John: Yes, yes.
John: This was a one-time only, you're going to bring this stuff down to accomplish this job.
Merlin: Yes, and you know me.
Merlin: One reason I think New Year's resolutions and similar tend not to succeed is that the people who make that big wager about the person they think they want to be, they lack the infrastructure to support that.
Merlin: Go on.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: So, for example, what's a popular one?
Merlin: A popular one, well, let's set aside stop drinking.
Merlin: Let's go to I want to lose weight.
Merlin: You could say the modern Noom version of that.
Merlin: You know, I want to make better decisions.
Merlin: But really, let's say I don't like the way my tummy feels and my pants.
John: Okay.
John: All right.
John: Good.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: So you say to yourself, you say to yourself, I'm going to lose 20 pounds this year or whatever.
Merlin: Oh, ambitious.
Merlin: More things to set aside.
Merlin: Let's set aside that if this had really mattered to you, you already would have done it.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Let's set aside that you've probably done this more than one year and it didn't stick.
Merlin: It's tough talk here.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: Sometimes that's the kind of tough love a person needs is like, you're just saying a bunch of bullshit and that's no good.
Merlin: You're lying.
Merlin: You're making a plan to lie to yourself.
Whew.
Merlin: So step number one, guess what?
Merlin: Get rid, identify, step back, identify the foods that you think make you a fatty or a tummy boy.
Merlin: Identify those foods and get them the fuck out of your house.
Merlin: Then get foods that you enjoy eating.
Merlin: Don't buy stuff you're not going to eat just because it's healthy.
Merlin: Get yourself, in my case, you know me and my protein.
Merlin: Get you some beef jerky.
Merlin: You boil 12 eggs.
Merlin: Right?
Merlin: You got that ready.
Merlin: Boil 12 eggs.
John: No one can boil 12 eggs.
Merlin: Are you kidding me?
Merlin: Any man doesn't put a spoon back, it's not in the box.
Merlin: So that's what I'm talking about.
Merlin: What I'm talking about is before you dive into something, you're in no position to actually commit to.
Merlin: You must first commit to identifying why you're doing it, what success looks like, and then what is the pathway to making this, as my friend Jeff Veen says, make the right thing the easy thing.
Merlin: How do you set yourself up for success that
Merlin: by developing an infrastructure that makes you look forward to doing the thing that's difficult.
John: Make the right thing the easy thing.
Merlin: We can stop right there.
Merlin: That's gold.
Merlin: You could just go and sell that at the pawn shop.
Merlin: That's so gold.
John: I know that's really solid.
John: Make the right thing the easy thing.
John: Make the right thing the easy thing, yeah.
John: That's very hard for me to do to make the right thing the easy thing.
John: Oh, because it's against your nature.
John: It's against my nature.
John: Oh, shit, dog.
John: I don't want to do the easy thing.
John: But the right thing is already hard.
John: You can make the hard thing harder.
John: Make the hard thing harder.
John: They have pills for that now.
John: You know, that's what they say right on my candy bar wrapper.
John: Oh, is that right?
John: What's your candy bar called?
Merlin: Oh, Lumpy.
Merlin: Lumpy's.
Merlin: Oh, shit.
Merlin: You know that's got almonds in it.
Merlin: It sure does.
John: Yeah, Lumpy's.
Merlin: Lumpy's is the name of your candy bar.
Merlin: You would sell that at your cheese and plate provisionist.
John: Yeah, which is also called Lumpy's.
Merlin: Bespoke Lumpy's.
Merlin: Lumpy's.
Merlin: Everybody loves Lumpy's.
Merlin: Yeah, you could sell them on Etsy.
John: Make the hard thing harder.
John: Oh, boy.
Merlin: Oh, jeez.
John: Uh, yeah, no, but I love the idea.
John: You know, my daughter is a, is a soda abandoner and I am not, I'm a, I'm a soda finisher.
John: I'm a resolute soda finisher.
John: You're not going to, you know, you could, uh, you could, you could walk across the rice paper and
John: and leave no trace of your passage inside of a soda that I've consumed.
John: You got the tattoos on your arm?
Merlin: Picking up the pot?
Merlin: Yeah, more burn marks, but yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Well, you remember that, though, when he's been able to get across the rice paper?
Merlin: What's his name?
Merlin: The guy's name is Key Luke, I think was the name of the actor, the great Asian-American actor, Key Luke.
Merlin: And he was also a voice of a lot of things.
Merlin: He was the guy on M.A.S.H.
Merlin: He was the guy on M.A.S.H.
Merlin: I think he ran the bar or maybe the laundry.
Merlin: And then that guy is Kui-Chan Kane's master.
Merlin: And at the end, he goes into the Darth Vader room and has to pick up the hot pot with his forearms.
Merlin: And then that makes Dragon Burns.
John: I've told you about the guy that I used to work with that had the... I used to work at a Grunge Rock bar, but that it was a gay bar.
John: It had been a gay bar for many, many years, decades.
John: And before that, it was a...
John: Well, I guess we used to call it a whorehouse.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: I see.
Merlin: Courtesan.
Merlin: Courtesan.
Merlin: Yes.
John: A sex worker hotel.
John: Thank you.
John: But then it was a gay bar for many, many decades.
John: And when I started working there, it was still a gay bar.
John: But they decided the owner decided that he was going to cash in on this new rock and roll thing that was happening.
John: And he was going to have some rock bands, you know, like sometimes.
Merlin: a few nights a week i bet it's a way to fill in the gaps that are our um our we used to call it new wave night new wave night in sarasota was was at a gay bar yeah that's exactly what it was he had he had his regular weekly slots you play your head like a hole you you play harley david son of a bitch 12 inch version of gigantic
Merlin: Oh, well, no.
Merlin: So he was actually booking bands because this was 1998.
Merlin: Oh, is this the place?
Merlin: Is this the detour or off-ramp?
Merlin: Off-ramp.
Merlin: Yeah, this is the off-ramp.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: The off-ramp was the name of a gay bar.
Merlin: Yes.
John: Okay.
John: Yes.
John: And it was a big club.
John: It had formerly been a kind of two-story hotel.
John: It had a big, big, big theater, restaurant.
John: Really?
Merlin: At what time, if you know?
John: Well, during this whole period.
Merlin: It continued to be a place where you could get a room and eat.
John: Oh, no.
John: So upstairs – you definitely could eat.
John: There was a whole restaurant.
John: But upstairs had become like real flop house apartments.
John: A couple of the people had all their windows covered with aluminum foil.
John: Smart.
John: There were people that worked in the bar that lived up there as a part of – the owner's name was Lee Ray, and he was definitely running –
John: He used to own a Pontiac dealership in Palsbo, and when he retired, he divorced his wife.
John: He was like, I've always been gay, but now I'm free.
John: I'm going to take the money that I got from selling the Pontiac dealership, and I'm going to go to Seattle.
John: a hotbed of of intrigue and i'm gonna buy a like a gay bar in the you know and at the time that's commitment john seedy area down by the free talk about commitment to the bit and now i'm he says now i'm gonna live my whole life my
John: My boyfriend is going to be a meth head.
John: I'm going to have young people living upstairs.
John: The whole thing.
John: Lee was really.
John: I hope he had the infrastructure for that.
John: He only lived another 15 years.
John: But boy, he really sucked the marijuana.
Merlin: Fuck you.
Merlin: That's exactly what I was going to say.
Merlin: I know.
Merlin: Only marrow.
John: Hmm.
John: Just the marrow.
John: No, he chewed the bone, too.
John: Lee was a big guy.
John: Oh, not a shin bone?
John: Yeah.
Merlin: Oh, that's so interesting to me.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Boy, that's a lot of work.
John: And, you know, he was an angry guy and a mean guy and a bad boss.
John: But he definitely created a culture there.
John: Not quite.
John: Well, it was a cult, I think.
John: It was a cult, I guess, if you were gay.
John: You can't spell culture without cult.
John: Well, that's right.
John: I wasn't, so I was outside the cult aspect of it, but I was definitely inside the
John: First couple of straight kids to work for Lee Ray and pioneer that.
John: Did he always have two first names?
John: Lee Ray.
John: And his second name was spelled R-A-E, I think.
Merlin: Lee Ray.
Merlin: Okay, I'll allow it.
Merlin: If he had a third name, that would be very, very FBI wanted list.
John: Well, and that's the thing.
John: I mean, I don't even know if I knew his last name.
Merlin: Oh, man.
John: I think, well.
Merlin: It's almost like a share.
John: Lee Ray...
John: He hired a bunch of young people Because up until then it had all been you know, it was like it was this old bar They had leather night.
John: They had a court of Seattle night.
John: They had lesbian night They had you know dance night they had open night or whatever and now they have rock night and then second rock night
John: But he... It's good exposure.
Merlin: You should come play.
John: It's good exposure.
John: And the thing is, you know, everybody had a leather jacket, right?
John: All the people that were working there before had a leather jacket.
John: Now all these young people also have leather jackets.
John: Like...
John: It was easy to see who could work at the off-ramp.
John: They just had to have a leather jacket.
John: Oh, okay.
John: I didn't have a leather jacket.
John: I was a little bit of a... But you could look at me and tell.
John: You're more a denim man, I think.
John: I was a little denim-y, yeah.
John: But that also worked in that context.
John: But there was a guy I worked with, and he was just a little bit older than me.
John: He was from the gay side of the off-ramp.
John: But he had been in the Navy...
John: And he'd gotten out of the Navy, and it was one of those things.
John: You know, this is the late 80s, early 90s.
John: There were still a lot of people that were like, I wasn't sure I was gay.
John: I thought I was going to, you know, maybe grow out.
Merlin: It used to be a lot, a lot harder to be gay.
Merlin: Not that it's easy.
Merlin: Not that it's easy.
Merlin: You know, it's always been difficult, but boy, it used to be a heck of a lot harder.
John: It was different.
John: And this club, you know, was a place like gay bars used to be where people could
John: be them be themselves and so he got out of the navy and he came to the off-ramp and got a job he was dating the there was a bartender in the back bar who was just this beautiful elf platinum blonde hair he was like you know he was he was part of the leather culture but very small and um
John: And kind of wore chaps.
John: He was committed.
John: Talk about committed to the bit.
Merlin: I think a small guy who's in the leather scene should be called a leatherette.
John: A leatherette.
Merlin: Or a nano leather.
John: He this this guy that was in the Navy was dating the back bartender, but he was not there was nothing leather about him.
John: And it was kind of my first introduction to like, well, you know, everybody's got a different bit.
John: Yeah.
John: These two found each other.
John: And so, you know, God bless him.
John: And he was a funny guy.
John: But one of the things that characterized him was that both of his forearms, both of his forearms from his wrist to his elbow on the inside of his forearm, on one side, his left side, he had the Monkees logo.
John: The band?
John: The band.
John: Tattooed from his...
John: from the inside of his elbow all the way to his wrist.
John: The monkeys.
John: It took up the entire arm.
Merlin: I'm going to relish the next few seconds where my mind just goes fucking crazy trying to figure out what's on the other side.
Merlin: Because you're going to tell me, and I hope it's good, but like...
Merlin: You know this is the kind of decision you make where you say, like, I'm going to get this tattoo first, but that's just – I don't know if monkeys came first.
Merlin: It might be evolution.
Merlin: But you know what I'm saying?
John: In this case, monkeys were – the idea, I think, came first, and then the monkeys were the –
John: The first iteration of the idea.
John: Okay.
John: This was before... We're talking about 1990 now.
Merlin: This was before the monkeys had gone through their resurgence of like... They had a comeback where they were on MTV and stuff when they rebanded in like 86, 87.
Merlin: But I think it's a little bit like getting a Scooby-Doo tattoo.
Merlin: It's something that's got to be based in an older thing.
Merlin: I don't think you get...
Merlin: a full forearm tattoo of a revival.
John: Nope, nope, nope, nope.
John: That's right.
John: If you have Lynyrd Skynyrd tattooed on your arm, it's not because of the 1990 reunion.
Merlin: Mm-hmm.
Merlin: This is the Navy guy, right?
Merlin: This is the Navy guy.
Merlin: So you get tattoos when you're in the Navy.
Merlin: Yeah, and he's got other tattoos.
Merlin: You sail the Seven Seas, you get a monkeys tattoo.
John: But this tattoo is enormous.
John: Oh, boy.
John: And it's the full logo.
John: You know, like, hey, hey, we're the...
Merlin: Yeah, it's kind of like a fun, whimsical sort of 60s Partridge family font, right?
John: That's right.
John: It's bubbly kind of fun font.
Merlin: I see that.
Merlin: Okay.
John: But if you're looking at this guy, he's still wearing the glasses that he got for free in the Navy.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: And he's got this monkey's tattoo and he's dating the, the like leatherette chap self.
John: And the back bartender is very quiet, very demure, not a flashy person at all.
John: And absolutely like a lovely person, maybe the loveliest person in the bar, but also the one I got to know the least well.
John: Because he was kind of shy and retiring, he was not a bartender that was like, hey, set him up and knock him down.
John: He was very efficient.
John: He was a great bartender.
John: Did his job.
John: Did his job.
John: He was just kind of floating in and out.
John: He was beautiful, so of course everybody sat at his end of the bar or whatever.
John: But it was mostly just like, get these drinks in and out.
John: I never really fully...
John: We worked together for a long time.
John: We were friends, but I didn't... I never fully... I don't even think... I knew one thing about him, frankly.
John: Except that he was dating this guy that I knew really well.
John: Monkey's guy.
John: Who was kind of... I don't know.
John: I don't even remember what he did at the bar.
John: But the other side of his other arm, his right arm, from wrist...
John: to the crook of his elbow, his entire forearm, was the monkey's logo backwards.
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Merlin: This is commitment inside of commitment inside of commitment.
Merlin: So it's got symmetry.
Merlin: Did it look good?
Merlin: Is this the guitar case logo?
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: It's like a guitar case that says monkeys.
Merlin: On his left arm, he's got the guitar case.
Merlin: And then he's got the mirror image on his other arm, almost like they were pressed together.
Merlin: Exactly.
John: Oh, shit.
John: And I said to him, the monkeys logo looks like a guitar.
John: That's right.
John: And I said to him, when we first met, when we shook hands, when he was first coming to work at the bar, and I was there already working at the bar, I looked at his tattoos, and I said, is that a reference to Kung Fu?
John: Where he picks up the hot urn?
John: He gets the hot pot.
John: Hot pot?
John: And the guy said, oh my God, nobody else ever gets it.
Merlin: Oh my God, that must have been so satisfying for both of you.
John: He was like, wow, that's exactly what it is.
John: I picked up the hot urn, except it said the monkey's on it.
Merlin: If you can successfully play the drum parts on the song Words, you get to pick up the monkey's hot pot.
Merlin: There it is, the monkey's hot pot.
John: Honestly, I think about that.
John: I think about it.
John: It's kind of like the drinking fountain.
John: Actually, the monkey's guy from the Navy says,
John: Had the same personality as Eric Spurlock, who invented the, every time you look at the logo on this drinking fountain.
John: Oh, come on.
John: He had the same personality.
John: And I think about that monkey's tattoo.
John: At the time, I didn't understand tattoos then.
John: I only slightly understand them now.
John: 100%.
John: But at the time, I was like, tattoos, you know, and they were happening at the time.
Merlin: That's when it was really first picking up.
Merlin: I think that's when you would get a small tattoo somewhere that you could cover for work.
Merlin: Ladies would get a mushroom.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Well, I'll never forget when I found out that my niece, my my my wife said, oh, yeah, your name of niece got a foot tattoo.
Merlin: And I said she got a tattoo of a foot and which I think would be kind of fun.
Merlin: But no, she'd gotten something.
Merlin: This is all before tramp stamps.
Merlin: I don't know if that's probably not when I'll say that anymore.
Merlin: But right.
Merlin: And let alone like getting if you had some kind of punk rock tattoo that went all the way up to your chin, like you were like, you look like a criminal.
Merlin: You were not never going to work.
John: Well, I mean, you still look like a criminal, but that didn't happen.
John: I mean, not even like those back of the neck tattoos until later.
John: I knew a girl at that time whose name was Lily.
John: Lily had...
John: Well, first of all, she had strawberry blonde hair that she kept in a pixie cut.
John: Oh, God.
John: And her name is Lily?
John: Her name was Lily.
John: And actually, Lily was the inspiration for the song Shane that I wrote at the time about her boyfriend Shane, who lived in Virginia.
John: And Shane kept coming in between... Shane kept intruding on Lily's and my relationship because Lily kept referring to Shane...
John: When things would go wrong, Lily was on drugs, and I was on drugs.
Merlin: Shane... As in, like, I hate this, this is exactly the reason I can't be with Shane, you're doing the thing?
John: No, no, no, as in, well, you know, Shane says that he's coming.
John: Oh, he's the Shane of Damocles.
John: It's always hanging over your head.
John: And I was like, Shane's coming?
John: And she's like, Shane's moving to Seattle, so when Shane gets here, you know, this has all got to stop.
John: And I was like, well, Shane's in Virginia...
John: And I said, it sounds to me like Shane's always coming out here but never comes out here.
Merlin: That's classic Shane.
Merlin: You know that's classic Shane.
John: And so I wrote a song called Shane that was part of my original repertoire.
John: But Shane had a lot of, in the style of the time, it had a little bit more of a jazzy, funky vibe.
John: And later on, many years later, I was trying to rewrite Shane, which is a thing I used to do, have a song that didn't quite...
John: You did that with a bunch of Hurricane songs for your first record, and it turned out great.
John: That's right.
John: In this case, I tried to rewrite Shane and rewrote it so significantly that it became Unsalted Butter.
John: Really?
John: Which was just a song that is just, I was working on Shane, trying to get Shane to make sense to me, turned into Unsalted Butter.
John: But Lily had a tattoo of a white lily.
John: On her upper shoulder, left shoulder, back shoulder, on the other side, on her back.
John: Oh, like an angel wing.
John: Like an angel wing.
John: A white lily.
John: And she, at the time, you know, this was, again, 90, 91, like having a tattoo.
John: I guess the thing is it was a tattoo that would only be visible if you were wearing a bikini strap or a tank top.
John: Yeah.
John: Which was a look.
John: Still a look.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: If your boyfriend lives in Virginia, that's a look.
John: Yeah.
Yeah.
John: If your boyfriend lives in Seattle, but there's another boyfriend that lives there.
John: If your boyfriend lives in the Niagara Falls area, which is what Shane was.
John: It's very close to a Canadian boyfriend.
John: Anyway, she said at one point, I hate my tattoo.
John: She had, by this point, other tattoos.
John: She said, I hate my tattoo.
John: And I was like, what, the lily?
John: She was like, it's so literal.
John: What was I thinking?
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: A lily.
Merlin: That's my first thought.
John: It's like being named Shanti and having Shanti tattooed on the back of your neck.
John: Hmm.
John: Which Shanti did.
Merlin: It makes it seem like you're both forgetful and unwilling to put your cue somewhere where you could actually see it.
Merlin: Yeah, exactly.
Merlin: Put it on the little fleshy part.
Merlin: You look in the mirror, you're going to think your name's Hantus.
Merlin: Hantus?
Yeah.
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John: You know, put the little thing on your thumb so you look down and you go... Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: Try and do a little bit of a memento.
Merlin: Shanti.
Merlin: Shanti, shanti, shanti.
John: So that's... I feel like... What did she do?
Merlin: Hang on.
Merlin: Don't let me hang in.
Merlin: Did she do anything about it?
John: Lily well, I mean did she try to get one they what they call a cover-up did she try to get it made into something that wasn't a flower no what Lily did Here's how my relationship with Lily ended Lily said Lily was working at a bookstore and the owner of the bookstore was a super creep and It was a it was a bookstore in the university district and
John: And he always had young, literary, drug-addicted girls working at his store.
John: And it was, you know, it was the era when, like, you could be a creep.
John: Everybody knew you were a creep.
John: All the girls that worked there knew you were a creep.
John: But they still worked there, and you still own the bookstore and were a creep.
John: That was totally a thing.
John: It was a thing.
John: And the first time I ever saw that original Nirvana demo tape, the cassette tape, he had it behind the counter at this bookstore.
John: Yeah.
John: that he'd taken it in trade for something.
John: Wow.
John: And Lily stole it, brought it over to my house, and we sat and listened to it on my boom box.
John: And I wish to God, either I had stole it from her or I had made a duplicate or something, because it was all those songs from Bleach.
John: But
John: But like boombox recordings, like original recordings that – not boombox, but they had recorded them all as kind of like sell-it-shows type of cassette tape.
John: Yeah, it wasn't like professionally recorded.
John: No, it wasn't the record.
John: And different versions of them.
John: Polly was on it somehow.
John: Wow.
John: And it was – I've never heard it referenced.
John: I've never heard of it.
John: I've never seen it sold.
John: But I –
John: freaking heard it because we sat in my apartment and listened to it.
John: And then she snuck back in and, and like tucked it back in his, I don't know where it was somewhere, you know, behind the desk and was like, why didn't I, why didn't I make a, Oh, she didn't dub it.
John: Oh man.
John: No, why didn't I dub this thing?
John: Anyway, he came to her one time and said, look, I've got $25,000 in a bag.
John: I want you to go to Paris with me.
John: And she said, I will not go to Paris with you in a million years for any amount of money.
John: But it sparked an idea in her head.
John: And she, because she loved the Oles.
John: She loved the Beats.
John: And she saved up however many dollars it took back then.
John: And said, I'm moving to Tangiers.
John: Hmm.
John: You're going to need a lot of infrastructure for that, John.
John: Well, that's the thing.
John: But she didn't have any.
John: You know, she just had a carpet bag.
Merlin: Is that a French-speaking country?
John: I'm thinking of Algeria.
John: Arabic, but also you can speak French in Algiers.
John: Absolutely.
John: Okay.
John: Or I'm sorry, Tangiers.
John: Tangiers.
John: So she moved to Tangiers.
John: She actually did it.
John: And Lily was a junkie.
John: It wasn't like she didn't have already a lot of problems.
John: That sounds like the first line of a Nirvana song.
Merlin: Lily was a junkie and didn't have the infrastructure to get it right.
John: She damn so she did but you know that that And so she said she saved money for this there's well, you know I don't know how she did it and Lily was the type of person that could have gone to this could have taken two grand out of this guy's bag and By the time he noticed she was in ten cheers like that was the way that was how she rode she got to ten cheers and Because she had strawberry blonde hair and word in a pixie cut and
John: and had a tattoo of a lily and wore sort of gauzy clothes.
John: She was very small.
John: No, she was very punk, but the clothes were... Well, they were cooling in the summer.
John: If you were in the Mediterranean, they would have been cooling these clothes.
John: She actually went and found Paul Bowles...
John: Somehow ingratiated himself or herself into his world and became like a member of the circle of young people that always sort of pilgrimaged to Paul Bowles and that whole thing.
John: you know, Ginsburg, Fairland, Getty.
Merlin: I had to look him up.
Merlin: I apologize.
Merlin: Oh, he wrote the sheltering sky.
Merlin: He did.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: And he, he looks good with a cigarette.
John: He does.
John: Wow.
John: He was one of my favorite authors because I loved his short stories.
John: He read, he wrote these incredible short stories.
John: He actually was the, he's the reason that Muhammad and Robert, um,
John: Ended up being translated into English.
John: Muhammad Rabat is this great writer who didn't, he was illiterate.
John: He couldn't write, but he would tell stories and Paul Bowles would translate his stories.
John: And he had all, uh, if you, if you can find his books, they're, they're also short stories, but I, I, I loved his writing.
John: I didn't really like the beats, but I really loved Paul Bowles.
John: And all of a sudden, she's living in Morocco, and she's friends with them.
John: And she became some kind of runner who would go up to that bookstore on the Rive Gauche in Paris, which was like Beat Central, and go back and forth a lot.
John: And then she became a drug mule.
John: And she was loading up on drugs in Morocco, and then...
John: mewling them up to paris as a part of and her and her beard was or her her alibi was that she was part of this beat bookstore uh like circuit between between morocco and and paris and the last time i saw her she came back to seattle and she she was very she very specifically like went through channels and
John: By this point, I was sober.
John: This was five years later.
John: She, like, did the search.
John: She went down and did the, like, where's John Roderick search.
John: Went around the town.
John: And, you know, this was at a time when there were a lot of people that were like, well, he fucked off.
John: Like, he doesn't, he's not around anymore.
John: He's a ghost.
John: He ghosted us, right?
John: He stopped doing drugs and so he ceased to exist.
John: But she found me.
John: And I went down and I met her down in Pioneer Square.
John: And we spent a whole afternoon...
John: Just sort of walking around, not talking about anything, not talking about that she was a drug mule for Paul Bowles or whatever.
John: Not talking about she... Do you recall what kind of drugs she was muleing for him?
John: Oh, well, she was... They weren't Paul Bowles' drugs.
John: Oh, this is her side hustle.
John: This is a side hustle.
John: Okay, got it.
John: And it was dope.
John: I mean, it was heroin, I'm sure.
John: There wasn't another drug she would have been interested in.
Merlin: I think one short viewing of Midnight Express could really change your mind about moving drugs through the Middle East.
John: It really could, except that she was one of these charmed people.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: But she definitely... A red-headed pixie cut could go a long way in this world.
Merlin: I hope that's not racist, but I really think it's true.
John: Well, and especially, like, it wasn't an Auburn pixie cut.
John: It was strawberry.
John: So it was just, like, you know, natural strawberries.
John: It was just... She was very unusual-looking...
John: But in a way that was very usual looking.
John: She didn't have a... She just seemed like a little magical creature.
John: And I can imagine her breezing through customs over and over in a time when there weren't a lot of people that looked like her, well, anywhere, but especially not going back and forth between Tangiers and Paris.
John: But she had a look like it couldn't last.
John: And I don't know what she was looking me up for because it wasn't like she she did not look me up to say, like, whatever happened between us.
John: Why didn't we?
John: That's what you do.
John: That's what I do.
Merlin: I do that.
John: No, I don't know what she was doing.
John: I don't know why, because we didn't talk about anything.
John: Except we just, we spent the afternoon talking.
John: How'd you find out she was looking for you?
John: Well, you know, somebody.
John: Word on the street.
John: Yeah, that's exactly right.
John: Somebody comes in and says, hey, Lily's looking for you.
John: And I was like, Lily?
John: You mean Lily?
John: And they were like, yeah, she's in town.
John: Yeah, Lily the tattooed lady.
John: And I was like, well, by then everybody was tattooed.
John: Yeah, fair.
John: But they were like, yeah, Lily, apparently she's staying with.
John: You know, with Janet, who moved and is living in that building next to the other building that's out on 3rd Avenue Annex.
John: Not 3rd Avenue, but there's a 3rd Avenue Annex that cuts off.
John: And at that time, you didn't go down 3rd Avenue Annex.
John: That was...
John: that was a scary street it's still a scary street sketchy it was sketchy and i was like what janet has an apartment on third there are no apartments on third avenue annex and they were like yeah yeah yeah it's a little warehouse it's above that one but and i was like oh and so i i heard this and i went down there went down there and looked at the thing and there was a buzzer and i pushed it and
John: Janet came down and she was like, Lily's looking for you.
John: And I said, I know.
John: It's why I'm here.
John: There's no other reason I'd be here.
John: She was like, she'll be back in an hour or whatever.
John: And so I sat there not really having anything to say to Janet either.
John: I still don't know what that was about.
John: And I wish I did because I wish...
John: I don't know if Lily is alive and I wish that.
John: Oh my God, this is, this is really unsatisfying.
John: Well, that's what I mean.
John: I'm, it's still, I'm unsatisfied by it because I feel like that was a message.
John: I feel like she wanted to talk to me about something and she didn't get around to it.
John: And I, at the time I said, this can't last.
John: I mean, you know, cause I like to get to, I like to cut to the chase.
John: Sure.
John: I was like, you can't, this can't last forever.
John: Cause she was what by that point?
John: 26.
John: And she blew me off as she had always done.
Merlin: 26 is risky, you know, and you know, Lily's 27 is tough for a lot of people.
Merlin: And we know Lily has been based on the accounts that I have heard has been living pretty hard.
Merlin: And they're mostly consequence free.
Merlin: It sounds like that's the problem.
John: Consequence free.
John: Uh,
John: And you know how I feel about consequences.
Merlin: They're consequential.
Merlin: There's going to be consequences.
John: Mm-hmm.
John: So...
John: I never figured out what it was.
John: I never figured out why she came looking for me.
John: I think it was significant.
Merlin: I think it's a piece of the puzzle that I don't have.
Merlin: This must drive you nuts, John.
Merlin: This is, I mean, just to overstate something that is implicit in what you're saying, this is a big piece of your Weltanschauung, if I could say, is like figuring out, it's like picking back up on the thread of something and getting a take on
Merlin: the time, a time, a cask-aged, time-based, time-enlivened pickup of the thread about what happened, what was the deal, what had happened was what, right?
Merlin: What had happened was what, right?
Merlin: Isn't that a thing for you?
Merlin: It's like, you do this sometimes, you do this, and I can't believe you can live with this.
Merlin: I can't believe you haven't lost your mind.
Merlin: I've watched you look at Google Earth for hours, trying to find, like, one tree in Romania, right?
Merlin: Like I can't imagine, it seems to me that you would spend a lot of time trying to track Lily down.
John: Resolution, consequences.
John: That's the problem.
John: I don't, like if I were in Tangiers right now and met somebody that was like, oh yeah, I used to work for Paul Bowles, I would absolutely say, did you ever know Lily?
John: Or if I were in that bookstore in Paris and I bet you somebody would say,
John: Some crusty would lift their head up behind the bookcase.
John: Lily, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
John: But it hasn't happened.
John: There was a guy that was part of that scene that used to drive one of those Mercury, those mid-60s Mercury breezeway cars where the back window actually, it was a sedan, but the back window was cantilevered.
John: in instead of going flat out.
John: The back window was cantilevered in and it actually was electric.
John: It would roll down.
Merlin: This is amazing.
Merlin: This is a good car to die in.
Merlin: It was incredible.
Merlin: The car was huge.
Merlin: It looks a little bit like a consumer hearse.
Merlin: And it's, oh, man, it's slender.
Merlin: It's, oh, boy.
Merlin: General Motors, right?
Merlin: They make Mercury's?
Merlin: No, Ford.
Merlin: Lincoln Ford Mercury.
John: Okay.
John: Whoa.
John: So this Mercury breezeway, and, you know, it's a terrible idea because, of course, it sucks the exhaust right back into the car.
Merlin: I'm just thinking about, like, you know, I remember learning in driver's ed about all the things that had been done.
Merlin: over the years to improve people's chances of surviving automobile accidents, like wider roads, seatbelts, the kind of glass we have today that breaks up into tiny pieces instead of becoming sudden knives.
Merlin: This looks like a sudden knife car.
Merlin: It looks like that back window could just go flying all over the place.
Merlin: You know, even like, how about this?
Merlin: Even like you get hit from the side, you get just lightly T-boned.
Merlin: You think that thing's going to stay in that channel?
Merlin: No.
John: Not bloody likely.
John: That has become a death frisbee, a square frisbee of death.
John: Cause of death breezeway.
John: The thing is, the Mercury breezeway was as big as a kitchen.
John: It was this car.
John: And that was back when there were all kinds of cars on the road.
John: There were still cars from every era.
John: They were still having fun.
John: They were still trying stuff out.
John: Well, then, yeah, but even in the early 90s, you could buy a Mercury Breezeway for 500 bucks from a guy.
John: When you're driving down the highway, you would still see cars from the 30s still on the highway.
Merlin: 100%, that was absolutely true.
Merlin: This was back when you'd still see Mustangs on the road fairly often.
Merlin: All the time, right?
Merlin: Like ratty ones.
John: And I don't know, something happened in the auto...
John: Something happened in the regulation world, and I bet it was emission standards, where in kind of one sweeping five-year period, what had formerly been like a polyglot, a mosaic.
Merlin: A polyglot design playground.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You know, you could have fun with it.
Merlin: Yeah, you had fun.
Merlin: You could go buy a car and just find any kind of old car.
Merlin: But then NHTSA, big NHTSA comes in, and you got to get your gas mileage right.
Merlin: You got to get your safety right.
Merlin: You got to pass those crash tests that we've seen slow-mission videos of.
John: All these cars went away, and I think it was just people were like, well, I can't keep driving my Mercury Monterey or whatever because it can't pass emissions, so I guess...
John: I'm going to get a new plastic car that looks like a lozenge.
Merlin: Mercury Monterey looks very like Green Hornet.
Merlin: It's super fucking cool.
Merlin: Yeah, all those old Mercury.
John: But that guy, the guy that drove the Mercury Monterey, he was extremely punk.
John: And I keep waiting for him to find me.
Merlin: I keep waiting to get an email.
Merlin: Do you reach out to him with your passport?
Merlin: Do you send him signals?
Merlin: No, I don't.
John: He was, all of these people were part of that punk drug literature universe.
John: They were all, they were all working in books.
John: You know what I mean?
John: They weren't bar people.
John: They weren't, they were junkies, but they were
John: They were dry junkies.
John: They didn't want to get drunk and be a slob.
John: They wanted to pass.
John: They wanted to be – because the book world, the used book world or the vintage book world used to be this haven for –
John: people that were real, real.
Merlin: Isn't that crazy to think about how many years there were so many retail stores, half the books were Leon Uris's Exodus, but like there were so, there were so, so many used bookstores.
Merlin: And I lay toward the end of that period and remainder bookstores.
Merlin: And eventually I would think the remainder bookstores were huge back in the day.
Merlin: And I would think to myself, this is eventually, this has got to be a front for something.
Merlin: How does anybody make any money off all this Agatha Christie?
Merlin: Well, it was, but the bookstores that also traded in rare books.
Merlin: Oh, they got the little room in the back, almost like the porno at the video store.
Merlin: You go through swinging doors or something.
John: Yeah, and there were all those books in the case, and when you would say, like, I'd like to buy that book, they would say, ah, you can't buy it.
John: Like, that book's not for sale.
John: That book's not for you.
John: This is our credibility shelf.
John: That used to happen to me all the time.
John: I'd be like, can I see that one?
John: No, you can't see that one.
John: Yeah.
John: So I don't know, but you're absolutely right.
John: And I think all those books might have been hollowed out.
John: They might all have been drug dealers.
John: They might have been full of horse.
John: I mean, I was never a junkie, so I wasn't invited behind the counter.
John: Were you more of a tourist, you feel like?
John: No, I just knew that I didn't want to be a junkie.
Merlin: Needle drugs is a bridge too far.
Merlin: Were your people smoking it?
Merlin: I'm sorry, I'm taking you off your topic.
Merlin: Were your people smoking it even back then?
Merlin: Wasn't smoking heroin a thing?
John: Well, that's how you get started.
John: You smoke heroin, and then pretty soon you want it to work a little better, and they all end up shooting.
John: Okay.
John: I didn't want that...
John: extra problem and there was always an element of I mean everybody's got their line everybody's got their willpower there was one particular night I was with this group of guys that I really like not group there were two dudes and me but I really liked them they were smart they were they were part they were kind of you know they were they had arrived in Seattle from some university somewhere the two of them had come out and
John: And we ended up at a party at the guitar player for the band that had the song about the girl in the bee costume.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: The guy's name was Shannon.
Merlin: Shannon.
Merlin: And the band was, oh, life is pretty strange.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: He was chasing the dragon if memory serves.
Merlin: Yes, he was.
Merlin: He was.
Merlin: And what was the band called?
Merlin: The song was called No Rain.
John: No Rain.
Merlin: Yeah, I can't spend any time on this no rain a blind melon Blind melon so the guys in blue girl B girl I think is kind of what made that whole thing Well that one bit then what bit he sings is catchy.
Merlin: The rest of songs not that great It's very much of that spin doctors era, but that all I can say is life's pretty and then the girl in the B costume I think that was that was very viral You're at his house.
Merlin: It was viral at the time his house we see his guitar players house
John: Yeah, so Shannon Hoon did not want to move to Seattle for some reason, even though reputedly when Kurt Cobain killed himself, Shannon Hoon had freaked out in his hotel room and whatever, threw his TV out the window, and then was dead of heroin not very long after.
John: Hmm, jeez.
John: But two of the guys in Blind Melon decided they were going to move to Seattle, and I think it was, I feel like they didn't feel like, they felt like Blind Melon was too lumped in with spin doctors.
John: Hmm.
John: And they saw themselves – the same way that Harvey Danger saw themselves as allied with pavement.
Merlin: Oh.
John: But everyone else saw Harvey Danger allied with –
John: in the same family as The Offspring or something.
John: Harry Danger hated The Offspring.
Merlin: They wanted to be pavement, but they sounded... But it was also that, you know what it was?
Merlin: Part of it, I mean, like I can just say off the dome, I was not a huge watcher of MTV at the time, except for 120 minutes, because I'm that guy.
Merlin: But it was a question of like what was in heavy rotation,
Merlin: At the time, there's these three songs that were all in heavy rotation.
Merlin: I got something in my rectum.
Merlin: And that's playing.
Merlin: You got the offspring.
Merlin: Right?
Merlin: Isn't that part of it is you get lumped in with whatever else is hot on the MTV.
John: That's right.
John: That's right.
John: If you're up there with 311, if you're Sum 41 and SR 71 and whatever, 311 and 312, whatever it takes,
John: You're all on the radio at the same time.
John: And so the guys in Blind Melon, a couple of them were like, no, no, no, we're grunge.
John: We're part of the Seattle thing.
John: But they were like a year too late.
John: Yeah.
John: I think they saw themselves more as a stone-telling pilot.
Merlin: Well, they didn't sound oinky enough.
Merlin: They might have had the aesthetic, but I feel like in some ways, all grunge in some ways in my head is, I know this is not historically accurate, but when I think of the roots of grunge, I think of two bands.
Merlin: I think of the Melvins, and I think of Keep It Out of My Face, what's the name of that band?
Merlin: Keep it out of my face.
Merlin: Who was that?
Merlin: Mudhoney?
Merlin: Mudhoney?
Merlin: I think of Mudhoney.
Merlin: And I mean, it's got to be, it's got to be oinky.
Merlin: There should be, you know what I mean?
Merlin: It's got to be oinky.
Merlin: It's got to be not quite metal, you know?
Merlin: And I think just because you had a record after grunge was big and you've got long hair, I mean, no offense, but you know, none taken.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: That's much more in the Spoodly D spin doctors.
Merlin: Who's the guy with the harmonica vest to run around?
Merlin: John Popper in the name of his band.
John: The big fella with the hat.
John: The good fellas?
John: What are they called?
John: Yeah, the good fellas.
John: They're all from New York, I think.
John: You know, Harvey Danger's old tour manager, Fish, actually became the... He was not the tour manager.
John: I think he was the...
John: He was in charge of the B3 organ for the John Popper band.
John: That's a very heavy organ.
John: There was a lot of keyboards in that band.
John: And we actually went on there.
John: We went to see them.
John: What is the band's name?
John: John Popper and the Harmonicas.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: They're called Big Man.
Merlin: Oh, you know what they're called?
Merlin: It's not Spin Doctor.
Merlin: Traveling?
Merlin: Travels?
Merlin: Travelers?
Merlin: Blues Traveler.
John: Thank you.
John: Blues Traveler.
John: They were coming through Seattle.
John: Sean and I went to see them because Fish was there.
John: keyboard tour manager.
John: The B3-man.
John: We went on their tour bus, but it turned out it was just the crew bus.
Merlin: I bet that was stanky.
John: Well, so here's the thing.
John: They were headed up to Vancouver, but the tour... I hope I'm not talking on a school, but the tour bus...
John: John Popper and his tour gang would get two hotel rooms in Blaine, Washington, right over the border from Vancouver.
John: I already don't like how this is feeling.
Merlin: This is going to end up with a woman crying wearing a sheet, isn't it?
Merlin: No, no, no, no.
Merlin: Totally separate.
John: Two hotel rooms, one of them to put their weed and one of them to put their guns in.
John: What that is and it's like something from the wire I know then they would go to get the re-up over Yeah, and then they come back and they would pick up their weed and guns or their drugs.
John: It's like an airport locker for rich men.
John: Okay Exactly.
Merlin: Well some great motel or whatever didn't cost them anything And by the way, this is all this is all just alleged we don't we can't prove this This is just an alleged thing
John: So Fish was like, oh, yeah, here's all the drugs, and here's all the guns, and we have to get them out of all the buses and put them in this hotel room.
John: Jesus.
John: So I was at a party at this guy's house from Blind Melon.
John: The guy wasn't there.
John: It was some dude that I knew who was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm super good friends with the guy.
John: We'll just go over to his place.
John: He had an apartment in the – not in – it was in the –
John: What was that apartment building?
John: You're not going to know.
John: Yeah.
John: The Biltmore.
John: He had an apartment in the top floor of the Biltmore, which was this really nice apartment building that had fallen into disrepair.
John: It was full of grunge rockers.
John: But they were cut above grunge rockers.
John: So we were in this guy's apartment partying.
John: The guy that we were there with was like, oh, he's super tight.
John: He said we could come by any time.
John: He said we could party here any time.
John: And the door opens, and it's the guy.
John: Who was supposedly on tour he was I bet it was a real king of comedy type situation You're really not supposed to be in here He was like what the who the fuck are you people and why are you in my apartment?
John: And the guy that I was there with was like, oh hey, bro It's me and the blind melon guitar player looked like he didn't recognize the dude.
John: He was like what?
John: How the fuck did you get in here?
John: And so we all got chased out
John: Uh, and it was like, you know, kind of grab your pants type of chased out, like, you know, like get the fuck out.
John: And he was with the girl, the blind melon guy.
John: And he'd just come back from tour, I guess, came from the airport.
John: And this is what he found.
John: But these two dudes that I was there with, not the guy that got us in, but these, I guess two dudes I met there, which we weren't at this party very long, but I met these two guys.
John: And we got out of the house, and they were tall, handsome guys who had come from an East Coast college.
John: Okay.
John: And had arrived in Seattle.
John: Kind of like Steely Dan.
John: They were very much like Steely Dan.
John: Super handsome.
John: Except these guys were handsome.
John: Okay, all right.
John: Tall and handsome.
John: And they were Seattle scene tourists.
John: They were like, we're moving to Seattle, and we're going to live it.
John: We're going to live the whole thing.
John: And we walked out of the apartment, and as we're walking out, we're down on the sidewalk, and one of them, the more handsome of the two, the one I remember better, said, you know what we should do tonight?
John: The three of us should go find heroin and shoot up.
John: And, you know, at the time, I knew a lot of people in that world, but I had made a very studied...
John: uh plan to never do that you opted out i did not want that in my life and the people that i knew that that tried to manage it that did it and tried to manage it
John: They were successfully managing it, but I did not want that.
John: I did not want what they looked like, and I didn't want to be, I didn't want to stick drugs up my bum and go from Tangiers to Paris.
John: Like, that wasn't, even as romantic as that sounds, Murph.
Merlin: But you had the presence, even then, when you were open to other kinds of chemical adventures, something just, you just knew that that wasn't a good fit for you.
Merlin: I was doing all the drugs.
Merlin: If it goes wrong, if it goes, as I say in England, it goes pear-shaped.
Merlin: Like, now you've got a monkey on your back, and I don't mean Peter Tork.
John: Hmm.
John: It's right.
John: It's not two monkeys on your arm.
John: It's a back.
John: Oh, that's good.
John: So he, but he was so, this guy was so like tall and kind of beautiful and his hair was like really, his hair was perfect.
John: And, uh, and he made this case and I was like, well, and I said, I can, I can take you to meet the people that you want to meet.
John: I don't know, though.
John: But it was the time that I considered it the most.
John: I walked them over to... Oh, interesting.
Merlin: Okay.
John: I walked them over to...
John: To the guy I knew who claimed to be a carpenter and an EMT, but was really a drug dealer.
John: If you're going to make something up, you could do better than that.
John: Right.
John: Carpenter.
John: And I don't think he was ever an EMT, but I think he had taken some life-saving classes.
John: He definitely was a carpenter.
John: And I think he later stole a guitar from me.
John: I think he came into my house and stole a guitar.
Merlin: I never got paid.
Merlin: The guy I sold my Tele to never, never paid me.
Merlin: Never got paid.
Merlin: Never got paid.
Merlin: He's a nice guy, but I didn't want to bug him about it.
Merlin: Money's hard sometimes, but I really wish I still had that Telecaster.
Merlin: I loaned a Telecaster.
John: You don't forget stuff like that.
John: No, you don't.
John: You don't forget your first Telecaster.
John: Mm-mm.
John: I loaned a Telecaster to the girls in the band Cat Food.
John: Cat Food was real?
John: Cat Food was real.
John: And later on, I ran into the guitarist of Cat Food and was like, hey, that Telecaster.
John: And she said, you know, that was the nicest thing anybody ever gave me.
John: That was such a great gift.
John: And I was like, oh, I mean, that was kind of a...
Merlin: But she was so... Was she committed?
Merlin: She really thought she was going to get away with it?
John: I think that she... Well, she did get away with it because I was like... Sure.
Merlin: She was like, you know, without that, we never would have had Cat Food and we never would have put out the single... Cat Food does not sound like a band that has somebody playing a Telecaster just in passing.
Merlin: I'm not familiar with their work.
Merlin: I could look it up, but... See, she took control, though.
Merlin: She knew how to assert control in that situation.
John: It was a purple Telecaster.
John: Ooh.
John: She was the guitar player.
John: They were three Ps.
John: And actually, they put out a seven-inch, and they thanked me in the liner notes, but they misspelled my name.
John: They forgot the E. They said John Roderick, which was kind of what they... I used to hear that a lot.
John: Hey, John Roderick.
John: I was like, it's Roderick.
John: But nobody could ever find the E. But anyway, I took these guys to that guy, and...
John: At the last minute, I was like, y'all have fun.
John: Y'all go to town.
John: And I left, I left, I bailed, I turned on my heel and I got out of there.
John: But that was the closest I came.
Merlin: I'm so impressed and surprised by this.
Merlin: I'm not trying to cast an aspersion, but it seems to me that a lot of these times you've talked about, you know, provoking people into where you get curb stomped or whatever, like you were a troublemaker, right?
Merlin: And it's kind of interesting to me that it sounds like there was something in you, some intuition that this was not for you.
John: Did you do you remember your process you just think it just didn't feel right or was there like a strong like oh I don't want to get addicted to heroin feeling I think through all of the years that I was You know risking my life all the time and and doing drugs and doing dangerous things and getting beat up and and you know like whatever sleeping outside in the city and
John: I wanted to survive.
John: I always wanted to survive.
John: There was never, I, you know, I looked like I had a death wish.
John: Oh, interesting.
John: I repped kind of like I had a death wish.
John: I definitely, there was, you know, if I, if we were standing on the ledge, I was the first to jump, but I wanted to survive.
John: And I did all those things always with confidence that I would survive because I felt like I was bulletproof.
John: I felt like I was immortal.
Yeah.
John: But I also did not want to end here.
John: I had a future.
John: And there were just those lines, and heroin was one of them, where it was like, this is not the choice you make to have a future.
John: This is not something that a person who wants to survive picks up.
John: There were plenty of people that wanted to live that chose it because they felt like it was...
John: They had to, right?
John: You had to go through that.
John: You had to do it if you were going to have truly lived during this time.
John: But I just knew that that was a thing that I didn't... I wasn't in enough control to manage it.
John: I wasn't going to be able to... I was already going to a third location with somebody I shouldn't have gone to a second location with.
John: And that was going to be the thing.
John: It was just going to be... It was...
John: i don't know i always stopped and this was the night you know that i that i went because i went to the door you walked up to the edge yeah yeah and this guy that i walked him to was a guy that was constantly trying to get me to try it like i felt i fell down so weird so weird i was all fucked up i was i i'd crashed somehow and i was
John: I was all covered with blood.
John: I don't remember what had happened.
John: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
John: At that night?
John: No, no, no.
John: Some other time.
John: Earlier, before this.
John: Oh, another time.
John: I see, I see, I see.
John: You're vulnerable.
John: I was all fucked up.
John: I was, like, hurt.
John: And I went to this guy's house because he was an EMT.
John: I went to his house.
John: Do you remember actually processing the information like that?
John: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: I needed to be stitched up.
Merlin: Oh, shit.
John: He was the guy that I knew that could do it.
John: And he was always talking about, like, if you ever need anything, I'm your guy.
John: And that was where he got into the drug selling because he was coming at it from, like, oh, I've got all these drugs because I'm an EMP.
John: And I was there and I had...
John: he was stitching me up.
Merlin: He was putting all this, um, were you under an influence at the time?
Merlin: Oh, well, yeah.
John: I mean, every minute, every minute of that time, but then he turns around, he's like over in his little medical kid.
John: He's like, he's, you know, putting disinfectant on me.
John: He's pulling the stones out of the cuts or whatever.
John: And he's, and he puts some stitches in and then he comes, turns around and he's got a hypodermic needle and it's,
John: And I'm like, whoa!
John: And he said, oh, don't worry about it.
John: It's just morphine.
John: It's just... I don't think EMTs typically are outfitted with a supply of morphine.
John: No, and it was a syringe that was obviously something that
John: It was either like something that was in his family or that he had.
John: Like a Sherlock Holmes rig?
John: Yeah.
John: He bought it at like a vintage store.
John: It was like all elaborate.
Merlin: Is that clean?
Merlin: We're alighting.
Merlin: We're skipping this one issue that like no one wants to talk about.
Merlin: But this is also the time where there was a certain well-known epidemic of illness at the time that was top of mind for a lot of us for a lot of years.
John: Yeah.
John: And this was not like a plastic disposable syringe.
John: I think that it was made of silver.
John: You know, silver and glass.
Merlin: Yeah, I know.
Merlin: That's why I say Sherlock Holmes.
Merlin: It's like that kind of looks a little bit like brass knuckles combined with a chemistry set.
John: And he was absolutely like this.
John: He was goth, but he was like metal goth.
John: He had a bunch of goth stuff, but he also had...
John: uh surveillance cameras all around his he lived in an apartment too this is the kind of person you want medical care from oh well he was you know sure the fact that he was a drug dealer junkie and stole a guitar from me didn't keep me from thinking he was pretty you know otherwise you gotta get rocks out of your gash and i was like whoa whoa whoa slow down and he was like no no no it's just it's you know this was the thing they uh all drug people say it's like oh no that this is medicinal
John: This isn't, I mean, I'm not giving this to you.
John: Look at you.
John: You're all fucked up.
John: Like you need some, you need this medicine.
John: So why did they do that?
Merlin: It's so strange.
John: No, no, no.
John: Don't, I don't want, don't fucking put a needle in me.
John: And he was like, okay, man, well, whatever you say.
John: You're the patient.
John: But so when I brought these guys and I was like, hey, these guys from an Eastern college want to try, you know, like I think they fell down and got hurt and they need your assistance.
John: Oh, wink.
John: And the two guys were like, you know, very eager beaver, new to the scene.
John: And this character –
John: The Carpenter EMP.
John: EMT.
John: Or EMT.
John: Especially Paul Allen.
John: He loved noobs.
John: Like he was the guy that loved newbies that he was going to – because he loved to sit and school people.
John: Oh, like he gets to be the guru kind of?
John: Yeah.
John: Let me tell you how it really is.
John: And I took these guys in there and then I was like, I got to see a man about a horse.
John: But not you about your horse.
John: No.
Merlin: I need to see a different man about a different horse.
John: Different man, totally different horse.
John: And I left him there.
John: I never saw those two dudes again.
John: Oh, shit.
John: And I really... I wonder if they're with Lily.
John: you know what?
John: They, you know, they might, well, they might be.
Merlin: In a very like Bokkanonism sort of way.
Merlin: It sounds like they should run into each other at some point.
Merlin: They might be riding the great horse in the sky.
John: They might be.
John: They, they, and Muhammad might be riding the burka, burkwa up to heaven.
John: Is that Cat Stevens' new name?
John: The human face horse.
Merlin: What the fuck?