Ep. 547: "The Servant's Exit"
John: Hi, Merlin.
Merlin: Hi, John.
John: How are you?
Merlin: I'm great, man.
Merlin: How are you?
Merlin: Oh, wow.
Merlin: You are great.
Merlin: What's going on?
Merlin: I'm a professional.
Merlin: I mean, I'm not a professional.
Merlin: I get paid, but I'm not a professional.
Merlin: Well, now what's the difference?
Merlin: Well, one person is more professional.
Merlin: The person just gets money.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: All right.
Merlin: Well, no, I mean, yeah, I do what I can.
Merlin: Are you still a little sick?
John: Oh, my God.
John: What a journey.
Merlin: Oy, Gavolt.
Merlin: Oy, Gavolt.
Merlin: I don't want to break HIPAA, John, but did you ever go and find out if you had sudden onset diabetes?
John: Here's what happened.
John: Oh, boy.
John: What had happened was... After I got off the phone with you, I immediately went to...
John: band practice because i had a big big show coming up had a big show went went uh spent the afternoon in a in a recording studio in a in a practice studio rather playing with the rock band and uh you know it's hot and then i got out and i was like ah i'm so i'm so tired and everything all my corpuscles hurt and maybe i have diabetes and
John: and what am i gonna do and i'm hungry and so i went to arby's hadn't been to arby's in nine months that was a bad choice really yeah because then
John: After that, I couldn't keep any solid food in my body until Saturday at noon.
Merlin: Just not to put too fine a point on it, was the food taking the public exit or the service exit?
John: It was taking the service exit.
John: The rest of me...
Merlin: That's just for servants and Arby's.
John: That was the rest of me.
John: Like I never got a stuffy nose.
John: I never got a headache even.
John: I had for a couple of days there.
John: My mouth wanted to have a stress bump and it kept moving around like, oh, I'm going to be a stress bump over here.
Merlin: See, that's what I'm talking about.
Merlin: I think, I'm sorry, but just to clear up a point from a few weeks ago, I was saying there's a feeling that you get when it's still not actually a stress bump.
Merlin: And I think that's what you just got, where you knew it even though it wasn't a full stress bump yet.
John: Yeah, there's a feeling you get when you look to the West.
John: And it's a feeling of maybe I'm getting a stress bump.
John: And Forrest will echo with laughter.
Merlin: John, does anybody remember laughter?
John: Barely anybody does.
John: You and I remember laughter.
John: Doesn't mean we laugh, but we sure do remember.
John: I remember.
John: The North remembers.
John: So it was hard.
John: There were a couple of nights.
Merlin: I'm sorry.
Merlin: This is a lot.
Merlin: Also, I may have forgotten to record at the beginning, but I think we'll be okay.
Merlin: Listen.
Merlin: You know, whatever is not in the show is not in the show.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: So last week, your voice was a little croaky.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: And you had been to an event the day before with some people who had various kinds of Lyme disease or something.
Merlin: Sure.
Merlin: Or something.
Merlin: And you were worried that you had something wrong with you.
Merlin: Because I think the phrase you used, you said, everything hurt.
John: Everything.
Yeah.
John: and even now everything hurts so the arby's thing is after the diabetes yeah and i think the arby's thing is tangential to it but you have to keep everything in mind and eating at arby's is a risk no matter what what time of year i'll put up with a certain amount of this but i'm just going to caution you counselor it's key to keep this focused and keep your tone because if you say a fucking word against the beef and cheddar right now
John: We're going to throw hands.
John: It's a wonderful restaurant.
John: It closed our Arby's.
John: Put up a parking lot.
Merlin: I think it might be.
Merlin: It's probably either a nail salon or a pet collar store now.
John: Yeah, you needed those more than you needed an Arby's.
John: You know what?
John: Capitalism makes those choices for us.
Merlin: That's the unseen, the invisible Adam Smith's hand.
John: Yes, it knows what you want more than you know what you want.
John: Like a mom.
John: You look at an Arby's and you're like, I want an Arby's.
Merlin: And they're like, see, I think about, I'm not gonna take you off your topic.
Merlin: I think about this a lot.
Merlin: Do I want that?
Merlin: Or do I think I want that?
John: Boy, I'll tell you.
John: Well, I mean, kind of both in this case for this week, what I wanted, what I, what I want,
Merlin: is that i wanted to be able to eat some food and not have it just immediately reappear monday morning you record a podcast you think you have diabetes you have band practice later monday is that correct yeah then you ate arby's yeah and and then and then you had it sounds like probably i don't know the latin for the wet shits after that oh that's terrible way to put it but after arby's you had got a lot of time to read
John: Yeah, it was a really, really crazy week.
Merlin: Did you make it through band practice?
John: Well, no, this happened.
John: It was Tuesday morning, probably.
John: Tuesday morning, I started to... The listeners are better at this than I am.
Merlin: I just, as somebody... Listen, I'll just be clear.
Merlin: I'm not currently a physician, but I need to know what order you think things happened in.
John: Well, this is very confusing.
John: It was very confusing because, you know, the thing is, my mom sent me a news article that said, oh, all the boar's head deli meat has been recalled for listeria.
Merlin: Listeria, which sucks because I have a lot of boar's head in my life.
John: Me too.
Merlin: And she said, I love their, you know, I got turned on to this by front of the show, John Syracuse.
Merlin: They have a, they have nice hot dogs and then they have really nice hot dogs.
Merlin: You ever tried the real, they're the ones that look like they're in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: And they come in like an irregular pack and a real snappy outside.
Merlin: That's like now Listeria.
Merlin: They're snappy.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: And so your mom sent that to you and said, could this be the cause of your diabetes?
John: And I was like, no, you know, because all of these things, the RBs, everything, the stress bumps, the everything hurts.
John: There are 34 different ways that it's like, well, that might've been in you for a week and a half.
John: Oh, that might be 14 days that it took to incubate.
Merlin: And that's just the stuff you know about.
John: And I took a COVID test because people were like, oh, well, you know, the new COVID is just affecting the stomachs.
John: I was like, the new COVID is affecting the stomachs?
John: I don't know about that.
John: And then someone else said, oh, you've never had a stomach flu?
John: It sounds just like a stomach flu.
John: And I was like, I've had a stomach flu.
Merlin: How long did that situation with the servants exit last month?
Merlin: When did it go?
Merlin: So it started out like all these things.
Merlin: It's like going bankrupt, right?
Merlin: For a while and then all at once.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: But when did you taper off of that problem?
Merlin: Was it by Wednesday?
Merlin: I'm guessing it was clearing out.
John: No, no, it was not.
John: And by Thursday, it was getting worse.
John: worse oh what i had was that's unusual john it was very unusual what i had was my tummy was very bloated and and um and i you know like to the point that you i could thump it thump thump you know it was just like a melon yeah it was just hard hard bloated which i've never i don't think i've ever had that
Merlin: and i said huh but almost like because you know there's all that thing where you have to lay on the table and have all that indignity of a doctor touching you on the paper table and like they always like to feel your tummy and i bet that's what they're feeling for does john have a hard tummy from arby's yeah they're going thump thump thump and i'm always like nope in this case it was yep and then now we're now we're on now we're at friday
John: That's insane.
John: Thursday night, I couldn't sleep because I had to get up every 10 minutes.
John: And there wasn't anything in me.
John: I'm not going to say anything, but welcome to my life in 2001.
John: I know.
John: I remember.
John: I remember how in pain you were.
Merlin: It was like I had about usually about 18 seconds.
John: And so wherever I was to the place, all I had between Tuesday and Friday was a banana, some Ritz crackers, you know, half of a half of a ginger ale.
John: And so whatever it was that my body really felt like it needed to get out of me, there wasn't anything there, just water.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Like after you barfed out from drinking, I've had a handful of occasions where like, I just barf for like half a day and then you get down to the bile and you're like, well, at least, you know, Diana, you know, we got the bile.
Merlin: I think we're getting close to the end.
Merlin: And so you might've actually been finally getting down to the potato cakes at that point.
John: Yeah, who knew?
John: Who knew?
John: But then my mom was concerned.
John: She's not usually concerned.
John: The getting worse after Wednesday is concerning.
John: It was concern.
John: And, you know, and I'm not one who normally at four o'clock in the morning says to himself quietly, maybe you do need to go to the doctor.
John: And so, you know, because then it's all those people that are like the doctor.
John: And I'm like, yeah, the doctor, what the, you know, the last time I went to the doctor, it was a, it was a mistake.
Merlin: Oh, it's a whole, it's a whole thing.
Merlin: Like there's a lot of stuff I'd like to go to a doctor about, but I want to go to the doctor because I'd like to get fixed and feel better.
Merlin: I'm not there to get an associate's degree in learning what you think things are.
Merlin: And then to have a bunch of homework.
John: In this case, mom comes over and she's also been through what you were through this long period where you just can't ever get the tummy together.
John: And she comes in and she has a thing of Pepto-Bismol
John: a thing of gas x and a thing of imodium oh that's a mom yeah i've never taken any one of those three things i've never had a sip of the pink stuff i've never i have a listen to this i have a dish i keep imodium in a dish like an old person has starlight pits
Merlin: I keep them right here.
Merlin: Aren't they bad if you take them too much?
Merlin: I mean, are you asking me?
Merlin: Listen, I'm not a physician, so this is not medical advice.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: A lot of people say take one.
Merlin: And if you still, you know what?
Merlin: I'm not going to say this.
Merlin: This sits comfortably right alongside our stress bump solution, which is the solution to stress bumps.
Merlin: But a doctor is not going to tell you to poke it with a needle.
Merlin: That's because they're crooked.
Merlin: In my case, listen, if you've got Imodium, take at least two.
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: I take four.
Merlin: Well, it stops it up, man.
Merlin: If you've got things to do, do you want to be wondering while you're getting on the muni?
Merlin: Well, sure you don't.
Merlin: No, sir.
Merlin: So she brought you Pepto-Bismol, that coat.
Merlin: Remember, sir, it coats, it soothes, and it relieves.
Merlin: All three things.
Merlin: Gas X, that sounds like Beano.
Merlin: That sounds like one of them.
Merlin: I don't know if that's racist.
Merlin: That takes out some of the bloating, and then the Imodium is going to suck the liquid out of your bowels, and you're going to stop pooping.
John: This was her recommendations.
John: These were the theories that she was proffering.
John: And so I was like, I'll try anything.
John: Sure.
John: And I took two Imodiums, and I was able to go to sleep.
John: because I hadn't been asleep, because I couldn't go... For those of you who are listening to this show who had to put their Arby's roast beef sandwiches down because the topic was too... You can always heat it up.
Merlin: Don't keep it in the wrapper, though.
Merlin: There's metal in the wrapper.
John: It's true, you can.
Merlin: When John's done talking, you can go back to enjoying whatever you want.
Merlin: Words shouldn't hurt.
John: And the thing about an Arby's sandwich is that the bun is already microwaved.
John: The bun is already soggy and hot.
John: from from whatever microwave they have at the store that is what it tastes like fresh so yeah you're not missing i'm missing anything you know you know what you were doing when you went to arby's oh come on everybody knows you know it's a calculated risk lie to yourself
Merlin: actually you know i got a chicken sandwich too and i'd say that chicken sandwich rivals the wendy's chicken sandwich i mean not if it gives you if the scoots for six days but anyway yeah but i mean like we're not grading on the trots we're saying like it's like with me and white castle when i was a child as long as we're talking about this every time we went to white castle i love white castle it's a hamburger chain and i used to love going there as a kid and i would get like three of those little white castles and little boxes you can make a castle out of them
Merlin: too many onions for me but yeah yeah no i understand you're not yeah but um i really did feel like it was a it was a one in five if there was such a thing as a five-sided die i don't think there is but i that was uh yeah one out of five times i was going to be reading trouble yeah i was in trouble i was in trouble yeah yeah okay okay so so your mom brought you this stuff and how did you respond to that well so then um then i was able to go to sleep and um i uh
John: I woke up the next day and I still, and this was the day, I think this was the day of the show, Saturday.
John: Oh, John.
John: And I was like, I have to play a full rock show, a nighttime rock show, which is, as I've probably explained before, is a lot of work.
John: Like a lot of just every one of the kinds of practice.
John: Had you had another rehearsal scheduled this week?
John: Nope, nope, nope.
John: I didn't miss any practices.
John: We didn't practice very often because for two reasons.
John: The guys in the band are good.
John: And so they kind of actually get older.
Merlin: It's hard to schedule that many adults in one place.
John: It is.
John: And but but it's also one of these things where they are.
John: This is the difference between professional and just getting paid.
John: There's a kind of well, there's a kind of contract with guys at this at this level of musicianship where if they tell you they know it.
Merlin: then you trust them that they know it like if i tell you i know something you can't trust that i you know i might know what i'm that's because you get paid but you're not necessarily professional yeah if i said this is the problem with words you guys it's not that we're unprofessional i don't think that's fair and i'm not even going to say that about us but like it's that you know there's other people maybe who are more professional i just watch you don't like king crimson probably right
John: Oh, I love King Crimson.
Merlin: Incredible.
Merlin: Incredible.
Merlin: Oh, man.
Merlin: Did you just quote Adrian Ballou to me?
Merlin: Oh, my goodness.
Merlin: I smoke marijuana.
Merlin: Listen to that album.
Merlin: Incredible documentary about King Crimson for the last couple of years.
Merlin: And, you know, that Robert Fripp, he's kind of a handful.
Merlin: You know, I saw them.
John: just walking around you saw him no I went to a King Crimson concert how long ago like a long time ago or recently no five years ago okay okay yeah cool oh man so you saw him with like the three drummers and stuff like that the three drummers yeah I saw that I saw that and I knew one of the drummers
Merlin: Wait, really?
Merlin: Okay, I'm sorry.
Merlin: I'll put a pin in that.
Merlin: I'd love to talk about this.
Merlin: We'll save it for the actor show.
Merlin: Okay, so you understand, you guys you work with, unlike us, they're professionals.
Merlin: They've learned their parts.
Merlin: And like, say, Tony Levin, you're not going to go, oh, remember that's an F-sharp?
Merlin: Like...
Merlin: It's like, no, Tony Levin is doing, you're trying to play a Chapman stick.
Merlin: Not the easiest thing in the world.
Merlin: It's like trying to do Stanley Jordan style two-handed tapping on a 12 string acoustic guitar.
Merlin: It's crazy.
John: Yeah.
John: Not a thing I would even try.
John: If there was one in the house, it would be here only as a objet d'art.
Merlin: And let's be honest, at the end of the day, you know the parts.
Merlin: And really, forgive my saying, you've got something in front of mind that's coming way ahead of how you're going to do the John Whetton parts on Red, which is that you've got Arby's on the diabetes.
John: The problem, of course, is that I don't know the parts.
John: In any rock show situation where I have guys in The Long Winters who are good,
John: I'm the one that's going to fuck it up every time.
John: I'm going to go to the chord that is the miracle chord that doesn't exist.
John: I'm going to forget the lyrics.
John: There are so many videos online of the Long Winters.
John: They may all be buried by algorithms, and you're just going to get Olympic stuff.
John: Google Long Winters.
Merlin: I can't find that video of us shooting guns to save my life.
John: yeah they're all it's all in the it's all been buried by the algorithm i think buried by the algorithms is right because people don't want you watching it they want you watching tiktoks that's a good point but anyway there there used to be videos of me on stage with the band and going i don't remember the lyrics and then people in the in the audience shouting lyrics at me until i could hear them because the band would keep playing the band you know those guys learned a long time ago the audience
John: as one.
Merlin: I'm leaving under color of darkness.
John: It was always the start of the second verse where I was like, duh.
Merlin: Sure, yeah.
Merlin: Also, your songs are a little complicated sometimes and it's not the intuitive next chord.
Merlin: no they're complicated and so so this is the difference between professional and getting paid i get paid just as but but but you know i've got 50 things to think about at every moment i'm not just trying to remember my heart this takes us straight back to when you were touring with your band and had a day off and because you were too cheap to hire a manager you had all the stuff to do mike squires might be the musical director i know he does a good job at that but you you're still the the chairman and ceo of the long winters
John: And the thing is, when you're on your watch, that's on your record.
John: You know, you're looking.
John: Well, there's that.
John: Right.
John: Everybody.
John: If this show is bad, they're not going to be like, boy, you know, Jeff Fielder on the base really didn't.
John: You know, they're going to say, yeah, the long winters were bad.
John: And then people are going to go, oh, the long winters, that guy.
John: yeah exactly but from from where i'm standing you know i've got a everything every every minute of every song is not scripted but you know in my head i know like where i need to
John: how I need to be postured, like where, what my hands are supposed to be doing, but I'm singing and I'm trying to, and I, you know, I try and put emotion into everything I do.
John: I never, if I'm up there and I catch myself putting in less than
John: About 85%.
John: I go, what are you doing?
John: Get your head in the game.
John: I'm trying to beat every show I've ever played.
John: I try and beat all the way in.
John: And this is maybe one of the things that makes me not a broadly popular musician.
Merlin: And you don't do it to look like a cool guy.
Merlin: I've always liked that.
Merlin: When you watch those little videos of you and the hurricanes, like you're, you're, you're, I mean, you're competent, you're good, but you're also kind of like a dork and you're leaning into it.
Merlin: And like, I think that's part of the fun.
John: I can't, I never once, and I just started realizing this not that long ago.
John: I never once,
John: have uh have just sung a song where i was like yeah i mean in practice i guess sometimes i'm like i'm tired i'm just gonna we're practicing something else we're not i'm not a friend calls that the italian run through the italian run through yeah like when he who say no no because
Merlin: this is so smart.
Merlin: Like if you've ever done a presentation, like a PowerPoint presentation and he's like, well, you do your rehearsals of that.
Merlin: You build the deck, you practice all that stuff.
Merlin: And then the last thing you do is like, you don't spend two hours in your hotel room that morning doing the whole thing.
Merlin: You do the Italian run through, which is like, you really quickly go through each one just to just less for content and more for like flow.
Merlin: And just to remember that there are, you know, transitions and it's not to memorize it.
Merlin: It's to remember that, you know, that.
Merlin: That's the Italian run through is to just put you at ease.
Merlin: It's too late to learn everything, but it'll put you at ease that like you do know what you know.
John: Right.
John: Right.
John: And I do need that because there are transitions in songs where it's like, oh, right.
John: That is not where I thought it would be.
John: And I have to remember to.
John: to do that and an italian run through on it it actually really does help but the problem of of walking into a a saturday night show when it's saturday morning and you haven't had any sustenance stay in your body since tuesday is like i draw on reservoirs that i don't you know that empty sometimes and i've been in the middle of a show where
John: I don't have a fuel gauge.
John: I don't know where empty is.
John: And you can be six songs into a 10-song show and hit the bottom.
John: And it's like, oh, no, because I don't have a way of performing where I'm not
John: All in on everything.
John: And, you know, all in to the point where it's like, I'm trying to sing this song enough that it makes me relive the experience that makes me sad enough to cry, you know, and to like, forgive my saying to inhabit that.
Merlin: Whatever you made that a long time ago, you felt or thought that way.
Merlin: And now, in some ways, you're putting yourself back.
Merlin: I'm sorry, I'm overcomplicating this.
Merlin: But I know exactly what you mean.
Merlin: I had songs like that that would change over time in my mind.
Merlin: But you still want to lean all the way into it.
Merlin: You don't want to be up there looking like a broomstick.
John: Well, enough times people come up and say, that song is what...
John: brought me and my wife together and we still sing it in the morning when we're making breakfast for our kids.
John: And it's like, what am I going to do?
John: Get up there and Italian run through this thing because, you know, so I, so Susan, my darling sister calls me at about noon on Saturday and she says, I ordered a Turkey sandwich, but not a Turkey sandwich on dry bread.
John: She ordered a hot Turkey sandwich at a restaurant.
John: Which, as you know, is an open-faced turkey sandwich with a gravy on it.
John: It's a Merlin and John special.
John: It's a tremendous sandwich.
John: It's got a little bit of corn on the side.
John: It's got all this...
John: She said, I couldn't eat it all.
John: There's too much of it.
John: Can I bring it to you?
John: Because my whole family's been concerned about, because I'm never, I'm never sick, you know, and I'm never like, I mean, I'm often sick with a, with a sniffle, but I'm, I'm never like this.
John: Like I can't go out type of thing.
John: Or you've got the existential vapors, like a lot of us.
Merlin: And so just those three, those 3am illnesses.
John: Yeah.
John: So she she comes over at noon and she's got a hot turkey sandwich, which is really close to what I was seeing on Wednesday, you know, in another form, like the color, the shape, the constitution of it.
John: It doesn't look that far from.
Merlin: Well, it's reminiscent both of your Arby's meal and what it caused.
John: And so I'm like, oh, this is a risk.
John: This is a danger.
John: But I had two Imodiums last night.
John: And today's show is brought to you by Imodium.
John: Thank you.
John: Thank you, Imodium, for supporting our program.
John: Yeah, use the discount code Roderick on the line.
John: You'll save you 10% off your phone.
John: But I'd had these Imodiums.
John: You open it, you take it out.
Yeah.
John: And whatever had been all of the things, the entire list of diabetuses, it had all gone to a different place.
John: I couldn't say that I was cured, but I had none of the things...
John: That I'd had before there, you know, and I'm, and so I'm looking at this hot turkey sandwich and I say, I don't think I can play this show tonight with nothing in my body, you know, like I need something.
Merlin: You know, so like, you know, no part, no part says, you know, if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Merlin: And then like, there's, there's times where like, there's not a perfect option here, but you've got to choose something.
Merlin: You're going to either choose to go up there with like a child's lunch of food over the last four days, or you put something on your stomach and you strap on those Imodiums and get out.
John: You hope, you hope, right?
John: You hope.
John: Sure.
John: Sure.
John: So I ate it and it stayed down and it was fine.
John: And I felt it up.
John: Oh yeah.
John: A little bit.
John: Okay.
John: And I could feel it because I hadn't had any food in my stomach.
John: I could feel food in me, which you almost never really are conscious of like, I ate that and now it's in me.
John: But there was nothing else in me, so it was all the signal my body had.
John: It was like, well, now there's this in you.
John: But it was fine.
John: It stayed in there.
John: And then I went to the bar and loaded all my stuff in.
John: And then I'm standing around.
John: It's a very familiar environment now.
John: I'm surrounded by rock and roll.
John: And this is one of those, this was like a summer festival.
John: So there were four bands and every band I knew, you know, at least one person in some of them, all the people's,
Merlin: You say you went to the bar.
Merlin: So you're going to the club where you're going to play, but you're playing in a bar, in a club.
John: It's outdoors, though.
John: It's an outdoor show.
John: Were there portalets?
Merlin: Were there extra portalets?
Merlin: Or were you going to have to... This is how Merlin's mind works for reasons that we needn't get into.
Merlin: But like my first sight, like a lot of people who have problems with the servants exit, I always want to know where the bathrooms are and what the path is to get there.
Merlin: Were you...
Merlin: Were your Imodium doing enough to put you at ease?
Merlin: You weren't feeling any urgency or anything?
John: Here's the problem.
John: I don't want to besmirch the great reputation of Slim's Last Chance.
John: Yeah.
John: And the reason it's called Slim's Last Chance is that it's on First Avenue South.
John: And it's like one block from the bridge, the First Avenue Bridge.
John: And as soon as you're across the First Avenue Bridge, you're really out of Seattle.
John: You're effectively.
John: Oh, I see.
Merlin: Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: It's your last chance.
Merlin: This is Slim's.
John: We have a Slim's here.
Merlin: You might have played there.
Merlin: We have a Slim's here.
Merlin: I think it's at least partly owned by the great Boz Skaggs.
John: I have played at that Slim's more than once.
John: In fact, when I sent out a little email to my rock people like, hey, we're playing at Slim's tonight, Ben Gibbard wrote back and said, NSF?
Merlin: And I said, I think I've seen them there.
Merlin: I've seen Sloan there.
John: I've seen Spoon there.
John: Yeah.
John: I said, Ben, why would I tell you if I was playing Slims in SF?
John: No, Slims in Seattle.
John: Does that ever worry you when people ask questions like that?
John: Because it does kind of imply that you've lost your mind.
John: well yeah i told you i told you about the the conversation the week last week where i said what was the first time you ever played at the first avenue theater and everybody had a story and those stories were more real to any to everybody there than if i had said like what did you do yesterday oh absolutely yeah just like oh i mean we were all transported back we don't imprint on things as hard now
John: Maybe there's what is there to do?
Merlin: But I mean, like, I just remember more from those times.
Merlin: It's like everybody says, you know, if you got a store, remember the stores at the mall where they sell organs?
Merlin: Not, you know, the kind you play with it like a keyboard.
John: Yeah, for sure.
Merlin: The piano stores at the Yamaha store.
Merlin: And the rule of thumb is if you're that person, usually a guy in a short sleeve shirt and a clip on tie who stands by the entrance playing songs.
Merlin: The idea is if you see somebody coming who's a mark who you think might be a good organ purchaser, you play a song that would have been popular when they were in high school.
John: Oh, that's a good idea.
Merlin: So like if you, if somebody, if I, if I walk by and go get the bossa Nova switch.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: But like they're playing, don't tell me you love me by night ranger.
Merlin: I'm listening.
Merlin: You made the way that you move me.
Merlin: You're going to pull up a chair.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Slim's Last Chance, and it's a summer festival.
John: Slim's Last Chance is a bar where you can get chili and brews.
Merlin: You can get a coffee mug full of chili before you go on stage.
John: Indoor stage is an outdoor stage.
John: The outdoor stage has picnic tables, but one thing that Slim's does not have
John: is a bathroom that you want to spend any more than you absolutely need time to be in there including the fact that there's only one light bulb in the bathroom and it is not this is because of cbgb i think everybody saw what the bathroom of cbgb looks like and they think that that's acceptable for an american to shit in and i don't believe i don't i can't i can't understand how the how the county inspectors can go in that bathroom and say like well this bar can stay open it's a racket it's
John: And listen to everyone who owns Slim's, who's listening to the show.
John: I, I, I know that it fits with the bar, but it's a, you know, there are lots of rock bathrooms and lots of rock clubs where you go into the club.
John: And the first thing you ask the bartender at two o'clock in the afternoon, when you load in is, is there a second bathroom for the, for us?
John: We people.
Merlin: Which will probably still be really gross and have a mop in it and things like that, and the light will be blinking, but you're not waiting in line to basically get on some kind of a broken piece of porcelain.
John: Yeah, and at Slim's especially, when I say I don't want to be in there...
John: as you walk in you go down this hall that's too narrow for two it's very short but you go in and it's too narrow for two people to pass one another and then there's a urinal and everything's painted black i think including the urinal and there's a blinking you know you ever see this guy's live you ever seen black urinal black urinal yeah there's like a gutenberg sweden they're really good
John: A half-watt light bulb that's kind of blinking.
John: And then past that, there's like a dark space, which is presumably where the other part of the bathroom is, the important part that we're discussing.
John: It's like a Babadook combined with transport.
John: Horrible.
John: And I have never been in it.
John: In all the years, I have never gone that far into that bathroom.
John: I think I'll just hold it.
Merlin: I just, because I just wait till I get home.
John: Yeah.
John: I'd rather go to the strip club next door and say like, Hey ladies, you know, I'll pay the $50 cover or whatever, because I don't want to, I've never wanted to be in there.
John: And especially not if there's one other person in the bathroom, because then there's no, there's no clear path of exit.
John: You got to get past people to even get out of that.
Merlin: On the one hand, I'm so glad that our listeners get to hear what this is like.
Merlin: But on the other hand, can you imagine how much this is all like trying to explain to David Niven how to put a bomb in a briefcase?
Merlin: You know who you're talking to here.
Merlin: This has been my life.
Merlin: I know.
Merlin: You get very focused about this stuff.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: And, you know, you know, it's not it's not even just it's not like we used to say neurotic.
Merlin: It's not a neurotic thing where you're like, oh, I just I'd like to know where the exits are in case there's a fire.
Merlin: It's more like, no, there's a pretty good chance that up to four times tonight I'm going to need to be in that room in 18 seconds.
Merlin: and you you know you love rock and roll you went to a lot of clubs you went to a lot of clubs in your day and we just for what it's worth the bathroom it slims memory serves it's a beautiful club um you have to go downstairs so like you have to go downstairs and then there's a hallway with lots of cool posters but like i think it even might have a couple turns to it like you're gonna have to like it's it's not easy to get to
John: And, you know, we've been to any touring band has been on also a simultaneous tour of the 60 worst bathrooms in America.
John: You know, because also in between the two worst bathroom clubs that you're playing in, there's one truck stop you have to stop at, which also has the worst bathroom you've ever seen.
John: And you have to pay a quarter to even open the door.
John: Like just, just one nightmare after another.
John: Yeah.
John: And so you learn if you don't have a Merlin man problem where it's like, there's no, you have no chance here.
John: You learn to like, I'm just going to wait until we get, I'm going to wait for 18 hours until there's like a place that I can.
Merlin: It's a little bit like, I mean, not to keep making the same joke or whatever, but it's a little bit like food in that sense, too.
Merlin: We're like, now today we've got Google Maps.
Merlin: And so I can even find out if there's a Popeyes that I think is better than another Popeyes we could plan to take that exit ramp, because that's the only time I'm allowed to get Popeyes is when we're on vacation.
Merlin: But seriously, gas station sushi.
Merlin: You go in there and you're like, you know what?
Merlin: I think I'm going to wait.
Merlin: For now, I'm just going to have a bottle of water and maybe some beef jerky.
Merlin: And then later on, I'll have my hot meal that wasn't from a gas station.
Merlin: There's just all kinds of situations where, to use an old phrase from UI design, you have to satisfy.
Merlin: You've got to find a way to get by with what's here now, but you also have to weigh...
Merlin: Honestly, think about this with gas.
Merlin: Think about this with anything.
Merlin: When you're out on your own, especially in a pre-Google Maps time, you have to think about weighing...
Merlin: The band, the van, John, all these things need resources to get to where we're going and do what we're doing.
Merlin: And I have to weigh all kinds of things, including economics, including health, including, you know, right.
Merlin: I mean, like you have to like say like, well, this is no matter how costly this gas is, we're going to get it because I know it'll be a long time before there's another place.
John: Yes.
John: Well, and I think I may have described this on a much earlier Roderick on the line, but at one point I had
John: In the early days of the band, I had a musician in the band who I didn't, I could have guessed this, but I didn't actually formally realize it until he explained it, which was that he was a compulsive masturbator.
John: And so in the course of a trip across the United States, he really wanted to jack off three times and
John: From the time we left the hotel till the time we got to the.
John: And so every time we stopped at a truck stop bathroom and Chris Cornelia went in and bought something out of the hot case, some kind of Jojo.
John: I sat in the, I sat with the door of the van open studying my, my road Atlas.
John: Yeah.
John: Like, like, okay, then we're going to get off this exit.
John: And then I'm going to, you know, I'm going to come into the city from the back door and all this stuff.
John: And Sean Nelson had three cigarettes.
John: One of the band members.
Merlin: He's tall.
Merlin: He's tall.
Merlin: He needs three.
John: Yeah.
John: You know, the first two are just to, you know.
Merlin: But all this is happening while another unnamed member of the band is committing the sin of Onan in a flyover state.
John: In one of these, like the worst bathrooms in America.
John: And for me, I really, as soon as I learned this, I realized that the fact that the bathroom was terrible was part of his experience.
John: No kidding.
John: Yeah.
John: The whole thing was very dark.
Merlin: You know, it's one of these characters where it's just like, I mean, I don't know if you talked about it with this band member, like going to a stall.
John: Oh, yeah, sure.
John: The whole the whole, like, get me into the darkest, dirtiest.
John: Which way?
John: Do you know which way he's facing?
John: don't i didn't get that deep wonder but you know i mean there was another band made in the band at the time chris caniglia who apparently can stand in a in a suit with a gas mask on and spray roundup on a i'm still thinking about that a lot we talked about it on on syracuse and i talked about it and i i he i i think we both agree that that was a very unkind thing to do to you
Merlin: It was a very cruel thing to do.
Merlin: It's an absolutely amazing story that took a year off my life as you were saying it.
Merlin: I didn't know how it ended.
John: I've heard from people that were like, the worst stomachache they had this year was halfway through hearing that story.
Merlin: Honestly, I'm not trying to make this about me, but put yourself in my position where I'm like, is this going to end with John confessing to assault and then explaining why he assaulted someone?
Merlin: And I'm like, this is...
Merlin: So in summary, what you're saying is the long winners are a band of contrasts.
Merlin: Yes, right.
Merlin: You've got all different people doing different things, and one of them is in the bathroom facing in some direction or another.
Merlin: Did he take materials in with him, or was he just going off the dome?
John: See, this was not any of this conversation went that direction.
John: He was just explaining.
John: Boundaries are important.
John: Boundaries are so important.
John: Because I said to him at one point, hey, we got to get going.
John: Like, what the fuck?
John: And he was like, oh, you know, it's just... Did he have a euphemism, a euphemistic name for it?
John: He was not that kind of guy.
John: He was just going to say it straight out.
John: But it was one of these things where somebody, like you, who needs to go to the potty all the time, you kind of, or then at least... Yeah, I understand.
John: At the time, you kind of grow to assume that everybody knows...
Merlin: What you're doing in there.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: That's right.
John: And that doesn't, you're like, well, you're not like confused about what they're doing, but they typically don't go, you know, like hide in a small broom closet to do it.
John: They do that right in front of you.
John: And if you're like, Hey, we got to get going.
John: They, they hold up half of a cigarette at you.
Merlin: And you're like, you know, you wait.
Merlin: Yeah, exactly.
Merlin: You don't have to.
Merlin: It isn't.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: There's no signal for, for when you're in the stall, people are just waiting.
Merlin: There's not.
Merlin: And, and yeah, that's why you, you got so, so good at waiting.
John: It's about time.
John: Yeah.
John: Anybody in our era could look at a cigarette, a lit cigarette, and just by looking at it, tell how many more minutes it was going to be.
John: Oh, absolutely.
John: And by the brand, right?
John: If it's an American spirit and it's halfway smoked, it could be two hours before you get to the end of that.
John: Do they pack those tight?
John: Oh my God, those cigarettes take forever to smoke.
John: Whereas if it's an export A and it's halfway smoked.
Merlin: Oh, I love export A's.
Merlin: It's a minute and a half.
Merlin: Or like a home roll drum.
Merlin: Like you can stop that one at any point, you know?
John: Or yeah, and you probably should.
John: If somebody gives you an opportunity to put out a drum, you should take it.
Merlin: I used to love drum.
Merlin: It was like pipe tobacco.
Merlin: It was so tasty.
Merlin: I miss smoking.
John: Anyway, so I go into Slim's.
John: with a hot turkey sandwich in me.
John: And I know for a fact that of all the bathrooms in the south part of the city, the last one I want to spend any extended time in is Slim's.
John: And I'm looking around and that's a part, it's the last chance.
John: Slim's is the last chance.
John: There isn't like another.
John: Yeah, there's not an Arby's at the corner, right?
John: It's just like, here you are.
John: Then it's across the bridge.
John: And then, you know, there's Shree's.
John: Which is the gas station owned by an Indian lady named Shree.
John: And she puts up a billboard of herself on the side of the road that says Shree's and a picture of herself.
John: That's the branding.
John: Beautiful lady.
John: And it's the cheapest gas in the whole county.
John: Go to Shree's.
John: And you know, Ken Jennings, when he comes down to do the omnibus, he drives by Shree's every time.
John: And at one point we got into a conversation about it.
John: He said, you ever been to Shree's?
John: And we realized neither of us had ever been.
John: So one time I was down there in the middle of the night, and I was like, I'm going to Shree's.
John: And I pulled into Shree's, and it's like an old-fashioned truck stop.
John: Is this Shree's truck stop?
John: Shree's truck stop.
John: Oh, wow.
John: But it's like an old-fashioned truck stop.
John: She has a wild website.
John: It's crazy, Shree's.
John: It's like a truck stop.
John: She's got certified scales in a subway.
John: It's like one, but in Romania.
John: There are people who are pulling up.
John: I never saw this before until I went to Romania.
John: People pulling up and they put the two tires of their car up on the concrete balustrade in order to...
John: this was explained to me by someone there, in order to tilt it so that you could put that much more gas.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: So when you say, I'm sorry, at first I thought you meant the two front or back wheels.
Merlin: You're saying the two left or right wheels.
John: Yeah, right.
John: To tip the car up so you can put however many more
John: You know, one inch more of gas in the car.
John: So it is a Wild West scene down there at any hour of the day.
John: And I've seen now.
John: So then I was like, oh, Shree's is I have to go to Shree's because it's part of the gas is probably full of water.
John: Not to insult you, Ms.
John: Shree, if you're listening.
John: Does she really look like this in person?
John: Yeah.
John: Wow, she's beautiful.
John: Although she's not down there at night.
John: Oh, she's got people for that.
John: And so this is, again, Shreeze is also a restroom that you're not going to want to use.
John: for any extended period of time because you know the parking lot of trees is full of zombies like literal zombies literally yeah and so i get to the place and i've got work to do right i'm at slims now i got amps to load in i've got and just i'm sorry i want to bring everybody up to speed on this you've been feeling very unwell for four days and i just i don't want to beat this to death but when one has been feeling unwell
Merlin: Well, let's just say it's a cold, although let's actually talk about it like it.
Merlin: Honestly, it's a butt thing where you're like, I don't know what's going to be happening with me tonight.
Merlin: I think I'm up to the point now where I can step out of my green zone.
Merlin: Like, I'm willing to take a chance on this.
Merlin: But weren't you also feeling a certain amount of anxiety about like, I mean, I just want to put a point on this.
Merlin: Like, this could go very wrong.
John: Yes, it could find this whole thing.
John: Well, this is one of these.
John: It's one of these moments in life where it's like, I can't cancel this show.
John: I'm not going to cancel this show.
John: And also, I'm not going to give any less than I can.
John: And so I'm going to get up on this stage in front of this band, this band I'm lucky to play in front of in front of all these nice people who have paid to come see us.
John: And I'm going to really lay into these songs from the very beginning.
John: And I don't have any vitamins in me at all.
John: Like there's no sustenance.
John: What is a human being except a calorie burner?
John: But vitamins and water, that's over 75% of your body.
Merlin: Yeah, you can't just live on ice cream.
Merlin: She used to be Miss World America.
Merlin: Who did?
Merlin: Shree?
Merlin: She was Miss World America.
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: Sorry, I'm going to close this tab now.
Merlin: I absolutely, you're depleted in every way.
Merlin: And so I was listening, but you've got these twin sort of battling things, which is a classic John thing, which is like over here is this thing from the outside world that's challenging me.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: belt and shang over here about how i do and like that's gonna be a that's gonna be a warring thing and you're the you're both sides of the war and you're the referee of the war it's like it's all on you and you just need to keep moving no everybody go very very pear-shaped at any point you know i know everybody in this in this scenario so everybody says hey how are you doing and i go well
John: Touch and go.
John: And they go, okay.
John: And I say, it may be, I said to the bass player, it may be halfway through the show that you have to take over.
John: And he laughed and I was like, and I'm talking about lead vocals too.
John: And he was like, okay, I don't know.
John: I haven't trained for that.
John: And, you know, and I'm kidding, but I'm also like, I don't know.
John: I don't know halfway through the show if I'm going to have to look at the guys and say like, okay, I'm going to go down to half now.
John: And so we're going to have to pull this show off with me on a knee.
John: But I don't know.
John: I mean, you know, we played a show in Hamburg one time where I vomited on the stage.
John: I turned around.
John: Not in a cool Gigi Allen way.
John: No, I vomited in front of the drums because it was just like, well, that's the end for me.
John: And I did it once in St.
John: Louis.
John: Who's drums?
John: Was it Nabil?
John: No, that was Nabil's drums.
John: That was Michael.
John: That was Michael.
John: Oh, yeah, that's funny.
John: i did it in st louis one time i vomited on stage and then i turned around and started you know singing again and my nose was bleeding all over my i just got a spontaneous so fucking cool and i'm i'm singing my heart out and there's like blood you shouldn't be afraid to shit arby's at slim's
Merlin: You're a fucking legend, man.
John: Blood on the microphone.
Merlin: You're like Mike Watt used to duct tape the bottom of his pants because he'd get diarrhea and he would go out on stage with his pants duct.
Merlin: Oh, no.
John: It was mainly for driving, but sometimes you have to do it.
John: Well, believe me, I wore all black clothes because I didn't know.
John: Am I going to start a nosebleed?
John: That's Johnny Cash's secret.
John: They carried me.
John: They carried me out of a bar.
John: I have Crohn's disease.
John: They carried me out of that bar in Hoboken, like had to carry me out.
John: But I never canceled the show.
John: No.
John: And so, you know, they're going to carry me out feet first here or maybe they're not going to want to.
John: Yeah.
John: But I get up there and it's showtime and, you know, everybody's checking in with me like, how's it going?
John: And it was the strangest thing because I could not tell you.
John: Like I had no...
John: I said, I feel fine.
John: I feel good.
John: I'm happy to be here and I feel fine.
John: Yeah.
John: But I have no idea how deep fine goes.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: It's not a guarantee as you've learned over those four days.
Merlin: It's not a guarantee of anything.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I mean, you might have this feeling of like, well, I know I'm okay for 19 seconds, but that doesn't mean you're okay for 24 hours at all.
Merlin: Like at any point, the Arby's could come calling.
John: Well, and the thing is that it was only two Imodium ago that I thought I needed to go to the doctor, which is a thing I never think.
John: And two Imodium and 12 hours later, I'm standing here looking out at an expectant crowd going, I think I'm fine.
John: Yeah.
John: Oh, I'm sorry.
John: Two Imodium, 12 hours, and one hot turkey sandwich.
John: Hot turkey sandwich, yeah.
John: And so out we go and launch into the first song, and I'm full on.
John: And it's there.
John: Everything's there.
John: My voice is there.
John: My energy's there.
John: My desire to put it on, put the show on.
John: It's all there.
John: The band is great.
John: And we go through a whole show, like top to bottom.
John: And I never run out of gas, but about two thirds of the way into the show, you know, sometimes when I'm really singing and emoting, you know, I close my eyes because I'm trying to find whatever sadness it is in me that, you know, I want to share with the people in the back who fell in love.
Merlin: The best way to see inside yourself is close your eyes.
Merlin: I just made that up.
Merlin: That's really nice.
Merlin: Thank you.
John: I closed my eyes and I realized I had no horizon.
John: Like I closed my eyes and I was like tunnel vision.
John: And I was just completely in space.
John: I had no idea where the ground was.
John: I had no idea where the sky was.
John: And I, and I haven't, I don't know if I've ever experienced that where as soon as I closed my eyes, I could not, there was, it wasn't like I lost balance.
John: It was that I, if I took a step in any direction, it could have also been, was it little like tunnel vision?
Yeah.
Merlin: I mean, you know, the feeling of like, oh, here it comes.
Merlin: Like, did you feel like, oh, I'm just like dissociating a little bit?
John: No, I closed my eyes and I was gone.
John: There was no transition period at all.
John: And so with my eyes closed, I had and in the middle of singing a line, I had a very strong sense that you cannot have your eyes closed because there is no ground to you.
John: and know like you're not if you keep your eyes closed for one more second you could open them and be sideways right and so i open i open them you know with alacrity like hello i'm back but no other part of me was registering uh disequilibrium or unhealth
Merlin: But if I close... Whoa, this is like... No, am I getting this is kind of double weird?
John: Super weird.
Merlin: Because it was weird, but then there was a part that was weird about how it was weird, right?
Merlin: Yes, right.
Merlin: And you're experiencing that as you're trying to, say, maintain your sense of self in equilibrium and whatnot.
Merlin: That's a lot to process while you're in a band.
John: Yes, right.
John: Because I'm also going, Stu Beck!
John: yeah yeah yeah and so as an experiment i was like i gotta try that again and i closed my eyes and again was just i couldn't feel my feet i didn't it's like you found a portal into something yeah right except i can't see an apple
John: So whenever I close my eyes, it's a void, but at least I know where my feet are, right?
John: There's no, I don't close my eyes normally and see anything.
John: It's just like, it's just a TV static.
John: And so it was TV static, except with no other orientation, no bodily orientation.
Merlin: So weird.
John: Yeah, it was.
John: And so I was like, did you keep it together as far as you know?
John: Absolutely.
John: Absolutely.
John: Kept it together, but like went the distance.
John: And then we get to Commander, which we're doing now with me on guitar.
John: I've got a piano player, Dan Spills.
John: Mike Squires brings a synthesizer up.
John: Musburger has samples and his little drum sampler.
John: We're doing a straight, full-on, but then I also have a live guitar.
John: Then I turn on all the delays.
John: Are you doing mostly textures?
Merlin: yeah exactly just like wow type of stuff because there's one keyboard in at least i think on the record but definitely in live performances there seems to be one that's mostly the wobble wobble wobble stuff right yeah and that squires has learned that on his little mini synth but i'm just doing pads you know basically like so
John: And it's very effective.
John: It's successful.
John: I like the version.
John: And it's fun to have this other element.
John: So we're in the song.
John: Here we go.
John: And we go and go and go.
John: And we get up to that first crescendo.
John: And it drops out.
John: And it's just like, sounds great.
John: I'm very happy with it.
John: And then we come back in after the start singing the crew compartment.
John: And, you know, normally that's a kind of, it's a second crescendo and it actually, you know, gets a little bit higher even.
Merlin: And other people, that's also a part where other people were singing, right?
Merlin: Or like vocalizing.
Merlin: And like, it's got that, it's got almost like a, not a fugue, but it's got that overlapping parts thing.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: That's right.
John: And so hearkening back, you know, Sean Nelson was not in the band when we did commander thinks a lot.
John: And he, he is not on the record obviously.
John: And he was not in the band subsequently at any point that we played the song.
John: So he didn't ever have any kind of part to it.
John: And we played a show, uh, really our last big show before this, this little spate of shows this year was in 2017 at the Paul Allen sponsored upstream festival.
John: And we went into commander, not really having practiced it with Sean, um,
John: And we get to the crew compartment part.
John: And Sean starts singing it.
John: But then he doesn't stop singing it.
John: Crew compartments breaking up.
John: The crew compartments breaking up.
John: And a certain point, you know, I've talked about it where it's like it builds and builds and builds and it goes a little bit further.
Merlin: Each of the Fugy parts has parts where it's not happening.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: But it's layers.
Merlin: But it's not like My Bloody Valentine or something.
John: No.
John: And so then the whole part at the very end where it's like, you know, this is all I wanted to bring home to you.
John: By that point in time, the crew compartments part is not being sung anymore.
John: But Sean was up there and I couldn't, I honestly can't tell you now and couldn't tell you then whether this was that he didn't quite know what to do or that it was intentional sabotage that he just kept singing.
John: That's a long con.
John: And I was like up on stage.
John: And at that point in time, I was closing my eyes because that all I wanted to bring home to you line is real intense.
John: I really want to be in it.
John: But he keeps going.
John: And it's very hard to sing.
John: This is all I wanted to bring home while somebody's going.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: And so that version of the song just kept going.
John: Because there wasn't, I couldn't end it because he was still doing that.
John: And you can't end the song on that.
John: No.
John: And the song at the upstream festival, I think it went an extra two minutes.
John: And I didn't know what to do.
John: I didn't know how to end it.
John: I couldn't end it like that.
John: But he kept singing it, and it was one of these, like, I don't know who's going to run out first.
John: I don't know who's going to end this song.
John: He's got to stop.
John: He has to know that the vocals stopped.
John: I don't know if he ever did.
John: I don't remember.
John: But so we're up on stage two nights ago, and we're in the song, and I hear this.
John: The crew compartment keeps going.
John: And I'm in a state, right?
John: And I have this guitar that's also like, wow.
John: And it keeps building.
John: Crew compartment's breaking up.
John: And so I'm not really on the stage anymore.
John: I'm not super aware of...
John: where I am I'm in a state now where it's just I'm just kind of seeing lights but I'm not I'm for whatever reason I'm not dizzy I'm not but it's all just like colored lights
John: And so I start to play this guitar thing where it's just like, and I'm bending the neck of the guitar.
Merlin: Like where you right hand on the body, left hand on the headstock.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: And I have this new SG.
John: Asian Blue does that to great effect, too.
John: Yeah, that's right.
John: It bends.
John: It's just like having a whammy bar, except, you know, you're just doing it.
John: It sounds it's more fucked up because you can tell something's happening that's not supposed to be happening.
John: And it's through a delay pedal.
John: So it's like, wow, wow, wow type of thing.
John: And so I turn, I'm not going to sing the, this is all I wanted to do part.
John: So I kind of turn away from the audience and now I'm facing my amp and the song just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
John: And again, I don't know.
John: And, but at this point it's no longer a question of like, how do I do?
John: end this song because i'm not in charge of it at all i'm really not in charge of anything i'm standing there now facing my own amp going i don't know what i don't know how this song's going to end and i have no control over it
John: And it just keeps going.
John: And I keep now I'm just making sounds, crazy sound effects.
Merlin: But you hadn't.
Merlin: Did you was there a feeling that the band in general had lost its place or that you had lost track?
Merlin: Did you were you processing?
Merlin: I say dissociating earlier.
Merlin: Did you find this an honest question?
Merlin: Did you were you like, OK, this is all real and happening.
Merlin: It's just confusing in a normal way.
Merlin: Or were you kind of doubting your perceptions about what was happening?
John: Well, the thing is we'd already played this once live and we had done it properly.
John: And these are professional musicians who do what they are meant to do.
John: Yes.
John: They're not people who don't know what's happening, but at the same time, this is a crazy show and nighttime, you know, biker bar.
John: It is also, there's a slim chance that they have gone rogue and
John: And decided, let's just take this out because John clearly is like not driving anymore.
John: He's, but he's not out of it.
John: He's just riding.
John: John's riding.
John: He's not driving.
John: And he's like a rocket.
John: You don't, you don't, you don't drive a rocket.
John: You're right.
John: Yeah.
John: Right.
John: I mean, I, you know, I am the passenger.
John: I ride and I ride and I ride maybe, man, you know, more music than I realize.
John: Maybe they're on their own trip, you know?
John: And so I'm facing the amp and I'm like, you guys take it there and still the crew compartments.
John: And I'm like, they know better than this.
John: So I just like, my guitar just gets more and more because I got nothing to do except make my guitar do, and there is no guitar in Commander Thinks Aloud.
John: I don't know what to do.
John: So I'm just, now at this point, it's like Bob and Doug.
John: I'm like, no point in steering now.
John: I just start moving around, and the thing, you know, it's just waves of... And eventually, I think I looked at Musburger, our drummer, and I said with my eyes, look, this has got to be the last one.
John: We cannot go once more around.
Merlin: Whatever part we're on, this is the last one.
John: Yeah, and he takes my cue, and he goes...
John: And the song should be over.
Merlin: But still, the crew can form and breaking up.
Merlin: Not supposed to be singing it that late in the song.
Merlin: Nobody is.
John: No.
John: That's an earlier part of the song.
John: And then so then it's just like feedback dying out.
John: Sound song sound.
John: And the audience cheers.
John: And I turn around and I say, thank you, everyone.
John: But again, I'm not out of energy.
John: I'm not, thank you everyone, and I'm going to walk off the stage and fall down.
John: I could keep going, but I don't know where the ground is.
John: I credit the turkey.
Merlin: I think so too.
Merlin: Or I mean, specifically probably the gravy, because this is a big part of homeopathy in general.
Merlin: It's like you don't give somebody a quart.
Merlin: of arsenic you give them a point zero zero zero zero one and the thing about homeopathy that's interesting of course and it's it's illegal in germany which it should be is that you know the less you have the better and you're kind of doing that here you know you're parceling it out this is a tantric approach uh to an arby's illness show and like you know you know like what size spoon to use yeah maybe a whole uh maybe a whole turkey sandwich would have been too much maybe i would have been i would have gone over and worth one bite might have killed you that's homeopathy
John: yeah and and i feel i every part of me is just like this is fine let's do a second set except i'm just going to be riding along i'll just do the i'll do my part maybe again it's it might be your band in name but the music belongs to everybody and no one this is very similar actually i was going to say this for when we're off the air but this is something frip talks about
Merlin: You know Fripp is a real odd fella in a lot of ways, but he just talks about the extreme honor of being on stage.
Merlin: We're not playing music.
Merlin: We're there while the music is happening, and the audience is watching us, and we're playing the music as the audience is watching us.
Merlin: And the way he describes it better than I do, he's a weirdo, but he's really thought about that stuff.
Merlin: But in a way, it's kind of true.
Merlin: Jazz people will talk about that, but you're getting that experience here.
Merlin: You're a side person in your own band.
Merlin: You wrote the song, and you don't know how it goes.
Merlin: Because it's not your song.
Merlin: Like the leftovers, they say, not our dogs anymore.
Merlin: Here we're saying, that's not John's song anymore.
Merlin: It belongs to the world now.
Merlin: It belongs to the world.
Merlin: You just happen to be on stage almost shitting.
John: Well, and when I went to see King Crimson, there was a huge sign on the stage.
Merlin: No photos.
Merlin: No photos.
Merlin: No photos, no video.
Merlin: Two large signs on the stage.
John: And I went to the show with Jason Finn.
John: He and I are sitting in the audience.
Merlin: Wait, you and Jason went seeking for him?
Merlin: Why couldn't I be there for that?
Merlin: Jesus Christ, I would have loved that.
Merlin: I know, we're having a good time.
Merlin: Does he originally admit that Bill Bruford is a good drummer, or does he do that thing he always does about how nobody else is a good drummer?
Merlin: Well, you know, the thing was that... Oh, this is not Bruford.
Merlin: This one had three different drummers that weren't Bill Bruford.
John: Yeah, and one of them was Bill Riefland, who is this guy that we know.
John: We had dinner with him.
John: And then now, of course, he's died.
John: And he was sick then.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: Well, you know that one, that really handsome guy with the white hair.
Merlin: Yeah, that's him.
Merlin: Yeah, he's a big part of it.
Merlin: Oh, John, I might buy this for you as a gift.
Merlin: Yeah, he passed.
Merlin: He had like super cancer.
Merlin: He did.
Merlin: He did.
Merlin: He had like the cancer beyond.
Merlin: Wait, so you know that guy?
Merlin: He seems funny.
Merlin: You know who he reminds me of a little bit?
Merlin: Can I just say?
Merlin: Chris Cornelia.
Merlin: He's got a little bit of Chris Canelia vibe in a good way.
Merlin: He does.
Merlin: He looks like him.
Merlin: He's puckish, but he's puckish.
Merlin: He's really, he's committed to bits.
John: He was so smart.
John: He was a smart man.
Merlin: Oh, he's so smart and articulate.
Merlin: And it's just, it's so sad, but like, I'm going to buy you this today.
John: I was lucky enough to be able to go to dinner with him a few times and liked him a lot.
Merlin: Is he from Seattle?
John: yeah no shit yeah he played with all the guys here um so anyway i got up in the in the intermission because of course the king crimson shows got an intermission i got up and took a picture of the stage oh no and jason sitting next to me was like hey dumbass
John: No pictures.
John: And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: And I turned around to take a picture of the audience.
John: Oh, dear.
John: And I have never seen 500 angrier people than a King Crimson audience who sees one guy with his camera, his phone camera.
Merlin: That feeling comes up in this documentary.
Merlin: The thing about anything can go wrong in this.
Merlin: I'm sorry, I don't want to ruin this for you, but Robert Fripp's compulsive greatest fear in life is to not be there for the music.
Merlin: That guy asked him, what does it feel like when you didn't get it right?
Merlin: And he does the second longest pause in the documentary and says, it's like my mother died.
Merlin: Like, and he's dead fucking serious.
Merlin: And everybody in the audience is like saying, yeah, look, this all has to go perfectly.
Merlin: And one person can fuck it up.
Merlin: And that was you.
Merlin: That was me.
John: And I didn't believe this in the documentary.
John: This totally comes up.
John: I didn't know.
John: I mean, the thing is, I know what it's like to be up there and given a hundred percent, but the band wasn't even on stage.
John: And I look at this crowd because the house lights had come up because it was the intermission.
John: I look at this audience and there are people are older.
John: They're going to need that light.
John: And they want me dead.
John: And I was like, Oh shit.
John: And I sat down as fast as I could.
John: And Jason was like, I fucking told you dude.
John: And I look over on the side of the stage and there are thugs like thugs looking at me with a look of like, we are seconds away from coming in, pulling you out.
John: And I was like, I'm sorry.
John: I'm sorry.
John: I'm sorry.
John: I'm sorry.
John: And they left me alone, and the lights went down, and the band came back out on the stage, and I swear to you that Fripp looked at me.
John: Oh, shit.
John: Just like in an unhappy... Word got out.
John: And I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
John: And Finn was like, not having it.
John: You know, very much like...
John: And he's not some compulsive rule follower.
Merlin: No, no, no.
Merlin: But he wants to see the second part of the show.
Merlin: That's probably when they're going to do some of the songs that you really came there to see.
John: Well, but also he's like, did you not know?
John: And I was like, in this instance, I did not know that this was not just a...
John: you know, like a, cause there are a lot of suggestion.
Merlin: It's like a straight up, like just, I mean, like in the same way, we don't have to tell you to like, not take your pants off at a concert.
John: Like, like there's literally seriously don't do this.
John: Literally a sign on the stage that says, don't take your pants off at this concert and then going ahead and doing it.
John: So, so we get off the stage and we had prepared a cover and I go, let's do, let's keep it going.
John: We get back up on the stage and we played Sway by the Rolling Stones.
John: And we played Sway where suddenly I was back in charge.
John: Is Sean singing on that?
John: No, there's no Sean.
John: Who's singing the Keith parts?
John: Sean and I haven't talked since Bean Dad.
John: Oh, sorry.
Merlin: Who sings the high parts on Sway?
John: In this case, we had Jeff Fielder and Mike Squires both singing.
John: Oh, that's a fun cover.
John: Well, and then we go around, and I point at each guy, and everybody takes a solo.
John: Oh, my gosh.
John: A solo, keyboard solo.
John: And then at the end, I was like, did the thing with the finger where you're like, everybody solo, and we all soloed it once.
John: But they're a great band, so they could solo and keep the song going.
John: And we're all piano and everything going.
John: Great big thing.
John: I was very pleased with it.
John: We get off stage and I was like, wow, that was a really fun show.
John: And I think Mike Squires goes, yeah, except when Steve...
John: got up and I was like, Steve, he was like, yeah, Steve jumped up and saying on the commander things aloud.
John: What?
John: And he didn't say, he didn't say it like, yeah, it was great.
John: Except Wednesday.
John: That's, that's a bad way of putting it.
John: He just brought it to my attention that Steve had joined us on stage.
John: Well, Steve is the singer of the, of the band that put the whole concert together.
John: Stag.
John: He's a guy I love.
John: He's, he's the person that put the show together.
John: And he is the former singer of this petrol emotion who were a big band.
John: Yeah.
John: The English band.
John: Well, from the eighties, from the eighties, you're kidding me.
John: And he is a guy from Seattle.
John: He used to be the roommate of Charles Peterson, the photographer who took all the Nirvana pictures.
John: And then in the late 80s, he moved to London before the grunge scene and got into this petrol emotion.
John: Oh, he did like a Chrissy Hynde.
John: Yeah.
John: So then he was there during the whole grunge scene where he knew everybody in the grunge scene, but he's playing UK pop scene.
John: Now he's back in Seattle and he jumped up on stage during commander and saying the crew compartments breaking up.
John: You had not arranged this ahead of time.
John: Nope.
John: And he did.
Merlin: That's a, that's a pretty wild move.
John: It's wild because that is a song that is not like jump up and fucking jam.
John: You know, it's like a big,
Merlin: I mean, again, to say, I don't know if you played it this time, but it's not New Girl.
Merlin: It's not like a song that is meant to be a participation song.
Merlin: And it's also, I think, arguably, or perhaps inarguably, I don't know if it's your most famous song, but it's the one that's everybody's favorite...
Merlin: And this is part of emotionally, emotionally heavy long winters.
John: Yes.
John: But it's like, this is our most famous song.
John: So that naturally is.
Merlin: And it's the finale naturally is where you would jump up, except that I wouldn't jump on stage if I was like, like I say, I saw Nirvana with, um,
John: breeders and but like if i were kelly deal i would not jump on stage during smells like teen spirit i just would know not to do that right and and the thing is you know this is their show you know in a way like this is the the stag fest and all this but what was crazy to me is i had in that four minutes that that he was on stage singing i had no awareness that he was that was part of your you were in your uh fugue state yeah yeah
John: I was just in a land of colored lights.
Merlin: Was it him singing the part too long?
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
John: And so he was driving the ship.
John: I didn't know he was there.
John: And none of the guys in my band told me.
John: I'm sorry.
John: This is really fucking funny.
Merlin: You didn't realize somebody else was on the stage or was singing.
Merlin: I just thought partly at least some of the time your eyes are closed.
Merlin: You perceived it as why somebody in my band singing that line so many times.
Merlin: And I think because he kept singing it, that they kept singing it.
John: I don't know.
John: It's a band.
John: That's what you do.
John: You kind of help your fellas out.
John: I honestly still have no idea what went on.
John: He drove the band for two more minutes, and all I saw were colored lights.
John: Yeah, you're still soaking in a subbing club, John.
John: And with my guitar, I'm going, wow, wow, wow.
John: I don't know where this is going.
John: I don't know when this is going to end.
John: And so, yeah, I still, I mean, maybe there's a video out there, but I won't watch it.
John: Me neither.
John: Oh, no, thank you.
John: But that was a, that was, that was, I think the only time.
Merlin: How did the crowd respond?
Merlin: Because they all recognize that guy, right?
John: They did.
John: He's Mr. Guy.
John: And there were a couple of people that were like, that was a very unusual arrangement.
John: And I think, you know, my mom is always the ultimate authority.
John: Sure.
John: And she said, yeah, I'm not sure that that's the song I would have made into a space jam.
John: Oh, but she said that to me before I knew Steve was on the stage.
John: She said that to me.
John: And you processed it accordingly.
John: And I was like, well, you know, it is like about a space crash because I was kind of just like, yeah, well, that's what we ended up doing.
John: I'm not going to.
John: The turkey sandwich helped a lot, but it can't fix everything.
John: Can't fix everything.
John: It can't fix everything.
John: Don't expect it to.
John: It was only after she'd left and had put that down into the... Because, you know, she's my greatest fan, too.
John: So she was like, amazing show, fantastic, you know, interesting choice on the last song, but like, you know, great, great show.
John: And then I think it was when Mike said like, yeah, well, when Steve joined us on stage...
John: Oh, my God.
Merlin: And I think my first question was when you were visited by some kind of like Black Pete or something or or like Santa Claus, like some kind of a mythical character appeared and you missed it.
John: Yeah, it was a snuffleupagus.
John: It was your show and you didn't even see Snuffleupagus.
John: I didn't see Snuffleupagus and yet Snuffleupagus was affecting space time.
Merlin: Any physicist will tell you just because you don't see Snuffleupagus doesn't mean he's not there.
Merlin: That's right.
John: He's bending space.
John: He's got an atomic weight.
John: You could see him because he bends space around the sun, but that's the only way to prove he was there.
John: Oh, he's not, it's not a black hole.
John: What is that?
Merlin: Is that a quasar?
Merlin: Is that a dwarf?
Merlin: What is that?
Merlin: Well, it's gravity.
Merlin: He's affecting gravity.
Merlin: And he's technically probably still a puppet, but like, you know, they had to change that because they're afraid kids would be afraid, afraid to mention bad touches.
Merlin: And they had to bring Elmo in because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: That's what they said.
Merlin: That was actually, that was actually the press release.
John: You know what?
John: Yeah.
John: It ended up being a bunch of young people running the, running the ship.
John: You know how it goes.
John: I do.
Yeah.
John: Anyway, I don't even now.
John: I mean, I think it was a great show.
John: I had talked to enough people that were like, that was a fantastic show.
Merlin: You knew it was a great show, and it's been explained to you why it was a great show.
Merlin: Yeah, that's right.
Merlin: Parts that you might not have picked up in the moment, right?
John: You might have been somewhere else, you know.
John: It's even better than you thought, John.
John: I never ran out of steam.
John: Well, here we are.
John: It's Monday now.
John: Yeah.
John: I had never had an Imodium before Saturday or Friday night.
John: I'd never had an Imodium in my life.
John: Now it's Monday.
John: I still have not had a poop.
Merlin: In that entire time.
Merlin: That's not unusual.
Merlin: Pretty soon you're going to get to, and we're almost done with this episode, you guys, I think, so don't worry.
Merlin: But there's a phrase I've had for that for 25 years.
Merlin: You're going to have the next phase.
Merlin: You know what that's called?
Merlin: No.
Merlin: Catching up.
Merlin: Catching up.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Because yeah, I've still got that hot turkey sandwich in me.
Merlin: Think about a jug of wine and it's got that cork in it and you've got a cork that fits it to exactly the right size, but also the cork is something that can be removed so you can get to the wine.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You've got an equivalent thing.
Merlin: And that's not to say that you're going to have a lot of liquid after.
Merlin: It might just be fine, but first you've got to get past that extremely dry cork.
John: Well, what's astonishing is that two little tiny Imodiums, we'd like to thank Imodium for sponsoring this show.
John: Thank you, Imodium.
John: They have the power to accomplish this incredible.
John: I mean, I have to credit that whole show to it.
Merlin: I have three or possibly four pieces of personal advice in my wisdom document that are literally just about Imodium.
Merlin: One of them is that you should always have more Imodium with you than you need.
Merlin: And you can keep them.
Merlin: Well, how about this?
Merlin: You still wear Levi's.
Merlin: I don't know what you keep in your in your pocket.
Merlin: Watch guitar picks, guitar picks, guitar picks.
Merlin: I used to keep ephedrine in there when I was 14.
Merlin: I would keep quarters in there for video games.
Merlin: And I think you can tell a lot about a man's life by what he keeps in his watch pocket.
Merlin: And what I'm saying is you could have five.
Merlin: Now, don't wash them because then they're ruined.
Merlin: But you can have four Imodium in there just on standby.
Merlin: And you're not going to regret it.
Merlin: Like they pack small, but you're already getting it.
Merlin: You're getting, I don't need this.
Merlin: I don't need to sell you on this.
Merlin: You've experienced the miracle yourself.
Merlin: Two of those little guys, two of those guys.
John: And it, and it, I, and you know, salvage the whole F the whole, I don't know.
John: It's a whole summer.
John: In a way.
Merlin: When I hear about Narcan, which is such a remarkable thing, especially in the world of harm reduction, the idea, it's not just that a cop can give you Narcan and it might save your life.
Merlin: It's like people buy them themselves.
Merlin: People who live downtown carry Narcan with them.
Merlin: Oh, I know everybody's got it now.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: Well, to me, that's Imodium.
John: That's always been Imodium.
John: Have you ever administered an Imodium to a stranger?
Merlin: I mean, if I administer, unlike Narcan, and if I don't administer without permission, as long as they're, you know, compass mentis,
Merlin: and can say, oh my God, we have to drive 113 miles this morning.
Merlin: And you're like, have I got a Narcan for you?
Merlin: Have I got a Narcan for you?
Merlin: You can eat and drink anything you want.
Merlin: That's a big-ass piece of Portuguese cork.
Merlin: And then you have what's called a catch-up day.
Merlin: But that's not today.
Merlin: For now, we're going to get some miles on these tires.
John: Yeah, and I don't know if we're going to ever talk about this again, but this was a heck of a week for me.
Merlin: But you know, it's interesting if I could say, so am I getting from this that you're perhaps, you're not mad that you took a drug in this case?
Merlin: Are you perhaps even like a little bit like pleased with how it went?
Merlin: Oh, I'm super grateful.
Merlin: I'm super grateful.
Merlin: Do you see that, like, you remember when I, remember that one time you were crazy sick at Bimbo's and I brought you, what did I bring you?
Merlin: I brought you, I think I brought you Imodium, Ephedrine and Theraflu.
Merlin: And I don't think you wouldn't take... You might have taken... But you wouldn't even take Theraflu, John.
John: Well, because... You don't put drugs in your body, full stop.
John: Well, that, but also in the early 90s, when I was new to Seattle and new to junkies...
John: I had a couple of friends who I worked with who were junkies and it was at a time.
John: They probably had a lot of catch up days.
John: Well, and you know, it was at a time.
Merlin: Doesn't that make you stop pooping when you're on the horse?
John: Well, that wasn't a thing I worried about, but they would sometimes not be able to get any, any heroin.
John: You know, it's it, it, back then it came in on a boat or somebody's leg and it's late and everything's closed.
Merlin: It's just hard to get at certain points.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: And so when they were jonesing, when they were in the worst of it, they would take Theraflu.
Merlin: And all the junkies that I knew were like, oh, yeah, man, there are like, like, like mix a bunch of it in hot water, like a strong amount of it.
Merlin: And like it was to take the edge off.
John: Yeah, it was powerful enough that it could keep the it could keep the mice from running under their skin or whatever it was until they could get high again.
John: And so I began I started to think of it as like a junkie thing.
John: And if you take Theraflu, that's just basically like a heroin substitute.
John: And so I was like, get the Theraflu away from me.
John: It's too dangerous.
John: They should just call it Heraflu.
John: It's Heraflu.
John: Exactly.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: They probably can't say that for legal reasons.
John: You know, I didn't used to take aspirin, but I'm sure I should have taken it now that every corpuscle hurts.
John: Every, every one of those.
Merlin: So just to review that it's been a, it's been a huge week for you.
Merlin: You might still have something like diabetes.
Merlin: We haven't landed on that yet.
Merlin: You definitely had an Arby's condition.
John: Yes.
Merlin: Where are you now versus a week ago?
Merlin: How, how are you feeling about how this week has gone for you?
John: Well, I mean, I'm very happy about how the rock show went.
John: I was reminded at the end of the rock show that nobody does this for the money because, you know, these little shows I've been playing at the rabbit box where it's just me and I play for an hour and I, it starts at six and I go home and I'm home in bed by eight.
John: Because it's just me and there's no opener.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: There is more money just because there's fewer people.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: I make more money at that than I'm going to make.
John: And you get to bed at a decent hour.
John: Yes.
John: Than at this massive rock show.
John: Because at the rock show, I'm going to pay everybody out.
John: The money has to go a long way.
John: And what I walk home with is probably going to be less.
John: Then I could make, if I just had did a house show where I showed up and, and talked about my feelings for that.
John: And so you go, Oh, wow.
John: Yeah.
John: Right.
John: Yeah.
John: Like, Oh, wow.
John: This was great.
John: And, and so important for me to do.
John: And I would do it again in a second, but it's never in, in America ever.
John: It's never about the money in Europe, maybe where they, where they give you government money, but here it's like, we're all middle-aged guys, professionals in many cases.
John: And yet this is not going to do anything but go into the milk jar.
John: So that was definitely a takeaway.
John: But as far as like where my health is, I don't know.
John: I never did get a stress bump.
John: oh see that's good yeah yeah okay all right so it's it's a truly a land of contrasts but i might go sit in the bathtub right now and dissolve and end up going down the drain also a possibility it could absolutely happen yeah but you're going to keep pursuing music for a while or my cork dissolves and then you know then it's like i have to call in a hazmat team oh
John: But yeah, I'm so excited.
Merlin: I just want to say to our listeners, well, obviously for all these years, thanks for listening to the program.
Merlin: Use the discount code.
John: We're not going to talk about poop this much next time.
John: Probably.
Merlin: Oh.