Ep. 572: "The Good One"
Merlin: Hello?
Merlin: Hi, John.
John: Hi, Merlin.
John: How's it going?
John: Good, you're being really quiet over there.
John: Yeah, it's because you're being quiet.
Merlin: Trying to match your energy.
John: Yeah, I guess I was trying to do the same thing.
Merlin: Oh, you were trying to pre-retroactively gauge my energy?
John: Well, yeah, I guess.
John: I mean, could two people try to match one another's energy like all the way down to just like silence?
John: I guess.
Merlin: All the way down.
Merlin: Do you want to try a different one?
Merlin: Do you want to try a different energy?
John: Oh, I don't know.
John: That might have been my authentic energy.
Merlin: Your authentic energy.
Merlin: It just kind of snuck out, huh?
Merlin: It's a lot of pressure.
Merlin: It's a lot of pressure on you to start the show.
Merlin: But, I mean, I feel like we've got a pretty, you know, pretty well-worn patter.
John: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: We could always mix it up if you wanted to.
Merlin: We could start with headlines or looking at the over-under on sports betting or something.
John: It's just that, honestly, to let a little peek behind the curtain, when I log on these days with our new method,
John: You know, it used to be that you dialed me up on my black rotary telephone.
Mm-hmm.
John: But now I come on, and you're there already.
John: Yeah.
John: And I hear you just a little bit, but I hear you, like, futzing around.
John: You're moving pens around on the table, and you're, you know, you're... What the hell are you talking about?
Merlin: You're flipping through your... I sit in absolute silence and make some kind of a tiny noise after you've unmuted to let you know that I'm here.
Merlin: I don't think... I'm moving pens.
Merlin: Ooh, good organ in his eyes.
Merlin: Ooh.
John: A little bit.
John: No.
John: You're like feeding your fish or... Feeding my fish.
John: Little sounds.
John: And then I'm like, oh, there he is.
John: And I listen for a little bit and I listen to you.
Merlin: Because I want to get a clean... I want to get a clean opening.
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah, but today there was nothing.
Merlin: It was just like... I just sat here in absolute silence.
Merlin: No fish, no pens.
Merlin: Absolute silence.
Merlin: And I was like, where am I?
Merlin: Like...
Merlin: Does that scare you a little bit?
Merlin: Do you get concerned that maybe I'm asleep at the switch, as they say?
John: Well, no, because I trust the series of tubes that brings us together.
John: Big mistake.
John: Somewhere, I think probably where this show is actually happening is somewhere on the Oregon coast.
John: Right down southern Oregon coast.
Merlin: In terms of in terms of like it's sort of like when you're when you're having an affair with somebody who's also having an affair and then you agree to meet at some like arbitrary halfway in between.
Merlin: No tell motel.
Merlin: It's a no tell motel in Portland is what you're suggesting.
John: But we're probably going through a satellite, right?
John: So is this show actually happening up in space?
John: Where you and I actually meet in time is like in space somewhere?
John: Interesting.
Merlin: I think it's happening wherever the human heart needs a salve.
Merlin: Oh.
Merlin: I would not personally put Sav on a heart, but I didn't take math in college.
Merlin: So you shouldn't really take my... I believe in metaphors.
Merlin: I don't know why I'm now talking like... A little bit John Kennedy, but a little bit Mayor Quimby.
Merlin: Oh, because it's St.
Merlin: Patrick's Day.
Merlin: It's St.
Merlin: Patrick's Day.
Merlin: St.
Merlin: Patrick's Day.
Merlin: We do not do these things because they're easy.
Merlin: We do them because they're hard.
John: Oh, my God.
John: I watched that Scarlett Johansson space movie the other day.
John: Which one?
John: Well, she's like an advertising executive who's selling the space department.
Merlin: Oh, it's an Apple show with that handsome guy?
John: There's a handsome guy in it for shiz.
Merlin: I think Shani Tatum, maybe.
Yeah.
Merlin: Yeah, well, no, but maybe.
Merlin: Anyways, she's selling advertising in space.
John: Yeah, and this is the one where they're like, oh, they actually faked the moon landing, except they didn't.
John: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John: That's the show I am thinking of.
John: Okay, okay, okay.
John: And tell me exactly what is her role in the program?
John: Oh, she's the star of the show.
John: She's like this grifter who becomes like a high-powered advertising exec.
John: And in the mid-60s, nobody cares about the space program anymore.
John: Vietnam is what everybody cares about.
John: Space program's boring.
John: It's a bunch of pencil necks.
John: And then she gets called in by the Nixon administration in the form of Woody from Cheers.
John: Yeah.
John: yeah telling her that they got to sell the space program to get the money back and then she puts on a big you know program of like hey we're gonna start taking pictures of you guys and all that kind of stuff you know like we're gonna sell the space program make it sexy but the thing about it i see and it's part of it they get her because you gotta like convince women that it's a good idea
John: they didn't even actually get into that because what it actually what it ends up being is a rom-com because she and the handsome nasa guy are into each other but the amazing thing and i had not seen i don't know if i've ever seen a movie that did this so blatantly okay which is they put her in little 60s
John: tight little suits, little like kind of 60s business lady suits.
John: And every single scene, at some point, she finds a reason to turn around and walk away from the camera.
Merlin: People love making Scarlett Johansson walk the other direction.
John: And her, you know, this is not gendering her.
Merlin: She's got a little bit of a heel and she kind of is moving like a horse, got a little bit of a canter, advertising canter.
John: Such an incredible butt and I say this as with no with no judgment No, I'm not objectifying her the film was doing that But they're just like the real star of this movie is Scarlett Johansson's butt and we're gonna put it in every single scene That's how we won the space race and she and there even scenes where there's absolutely no reason for Do they play like music do they play did they don't play like the stripper or something, right?
John: No.
Merlin: No, I'm thinking of like, because, you know, sometimes you do with what I, some friends of mine, we call doot doot music, which is when you want to show that somebody's a ding-a-ling, especially on a reality show, you kind of play maybe just a slightly...
John: slightly more civil version of... No, no, no, but that's the thing.
John: She's not only the star of the film, but the heart of the film, and she's playing a hard-boiled person who's like, no-nonsense, she's a tough girl, and...
John: her her butt is somehow communicating this by being like so it's such it's by far the most powerful actor in the film yes and um and believe me good for i watched the entire thing when i would have punched out of that movie and
Merlin: five to ten minutes otherwise normally I would have been like she's a movie I started watching a little bit this morning that I think is an underrated movie I'm talking about no no I didn't watch that but I wanted to try I was trying to build on wherever you're going with talking about an actresses but
Merlin: I see.
John: And I'm trying to give some context.
John: It's not what we normally do.
John: We don't normally do that on this show.
Merlin: And can I just say, like, I don't have a problem with it at all.
Merlin: But, you know, the world thinks butts are bad and talking about them is anathema.
Merlin: And what I was going to say was she's in what I think is an underrated movie, which is Iron Man 2.
Merlin: Now, people say, you know, Iron Man 2 is not as good as Iron Man or whatever.
Merlin: I think Iron Man 2 is very good.
Merlin: And I think if I were being this particular sort of person, whom I am not, I would say, yeah, well, show me like which Marvel movie from the last five years you think is a lot better than Iron Man 2.
Merlin: But it's great because it's got, you got her.
Merlin: It's her when she first enters the franchise.
Merlin: And I was watching it because I'm interested.
Merlin: I'm not interested in celebrity couple drama.
Merlin: But I'm very interested in learning.
Merlin: When I learn that two performers who I enjoy are in a relationship.
Merlin: I like learning about that.
John: Oh, and you like that Colin Yost, don't you?
Merlin: I like Colin Yost.
Merlin: You know, Pete Davidson and his wife bought a boat.
Yeah.
John: I know I know that and also they were mad at each other and then the vagina remark I guess yeah, I don't know anyway I'm a watch Pete Davidson bought him a watch an expensive watch young people are so strange about what they do she but here's what I you know and you know what know what this is I said for a different show
Merlin: But I really, there's an actress on a show that I watch right now.
Merlin: The show's called White Lotus.
Merlin: And this season, there's an actress named Leslie Bibb, who's very charming.
Merlin: And we've seen her in lots of things.
Merlin: And I kept saying to my family, what do I know her from?
Merlin: I'm pretty sure she boned down with Tony Stark in one of the Iron Man movies, and I don't remember which.
Merlin: Well, as it turns out, she and her husband were both in Iron Man 2.
Merlin: Do you want to know who her husband is?
Merlin: Her actual husband.
Merlin: Became.
Merlin: They had already been acquainted.
Merlin: I tried to fact check this.
Merlin: It might be the first movie they were in together.
Merlin: But she is still, I'm happy to say, happily married to the great Sam Rockwell.
Merlin: My favorite act and he dances an Iron Man 2.
Merlin: Oh, he's a great dance.
John: Oh, he's a terrific dancer Have you seen those that super cut of Sam Rockwell coming out on the Jimmy Kimmel show or whatever?
Merlin: There's one, you know, there's this this is a genre that I think was started by one YouTube movie channel I like and has been aped by a million others where it's a title like when
Merlin: When the actor tries to work dancing into every movie or like when the director understands people skills, whatever.
Merlin: And but I've seen great compilations because, you know, we the gong show like what doesn't he dance in?
Merlin: Obviously, the Bob Fosse movie, the Fosse Verdon movie.
Merlin: He has great moves in Iron Man, too.
Merlin: I feel like that was a pretty early one.
Merlin: Who's the who's the television guy who does the night show?
Merlin: Let's see.
Merlin: It could be Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Letterman or Jimmy Leno.
John: Which is the one that was on Saturday Night Live?
John: Huh?
John: What'd that mean?
John: Well, he was on Saturday Night Live.
John: On Saturday Night Live, the program?
John: Now he does the night show.
Merlin: Oh, I think you're talking about Jimmy Fallon.
Merlin: The guy always cracks up.
John: He's always breaking.
John: Yeah.
John: And so this is one of those pages where it's like, can you believe what a dick Jimmy Fallon is?
John: And then it shows Sam Rockwell dancing.
John: And every time Jimmy Fallon comes over and dances to...
John: And the Instagram post was like, how dare this guy screw with, you know, Sam Rockwell's a genius and why is he?
John: My goodness.
Merlin: My goodness.
Merlin: The things about which the world gets incensed.
Merlin: It really is something.
Merlin: It's something.
Merlin: But Sam Rockwell, he's great.
Merlin: He's charming.
Merlin: I like him in every movie I've ever seen him in.
Merlin: You know, he's great in Moon.
John: You've ever seen Moon?
John: He's really good in Moon.
John: It's a good movie, though.
John: That's a really good movie.
John: Actually, Moon was made by a guy who's a friend of a guy that I used to be friends with on the internet.
John: No kidding.
John: Before the big stuff.
John: Heartbeat away.
John: Five or four years ago.
John: Yeah, heartbeat away from that guy.
Merlin: You're like six degrees of guy who made that one film.
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: I was only three degrees.
Merlin: Wow.
John: Well, the thing is now, when I talk about Scarlett Johansson's butt on this movie, I have to say that during the film, it's not like I was sitting there in a quiet room watching this film.
John: I'm in a room full of women.
John: We're all watching the movie, and we're all commenting on the butt.
John: So it's not that I was...
John: Oh, are we back to Scarlet on this?
John: Yeah, I'm not being creepy.
John: It's a thing.
Merlin: Well, no, and I'd like to call out is too strong.
Merlin: I hate that phrase.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: But to identify the fact that, I mean, they picked every shot in that show.
Merlin: The who?
Merlin: The one I was watching the movie with?
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: No, no, no.
Merlin: But A, I bet she's an executive producer on it.
Merlin: B, if she didn't want to show her butt, she would have said no.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: Oh, you think they're bossing her around?
John: I don't...
John: You know, there's no way.
John: That's turtles all the way down.
John: Which one?
John: Bullying women in the workplace?
John: No, no, no, no.
John: The one where it's like, I don't know.
John: The opposite could also be true.
Merlin: Oh, yeah.
Merlin: You know, as they say on the internet, you know, I don't know does a lot of work there.
Merlin: I do.
Merlin: Mine is usually the one I think I've settled on is I don't know, man.
Merlin: Oh, that's a good one.
John: I like that.
Merlin: You'll hear it.
Merlin: You'll hear it.
Merlin: Well, people listening to my podcast will hear it.
Merlin: But sometimes I'll go like, I don't know, man.
Merlin: I don't know, man.
Merlin: I don't know, man.
Merlin: Is that kind of like a conversation wrapper-upper?
Merlin: I like it because it feels like I'm on the verge of something important without actually saying something important.
Merlin: And then you don't follow it up with like... I don't need to follow it up.
Merlin: It's already out there.
Merlin: I don't know, man.
John: I don't know, man.
Merlin: I think she's very interesting and I like her very much.
Merlin: Oh, yeah, me too.
Merlin: I like Colin Yost, too.
Merlin: I like Colin Yost, too.
Merlin: I like when they do their big joke trade.
Merlin: You see, here's where I stand alone.
Merlin: One of the numerous ways, probably, that I stand alone.
Merlin: Are you like Ferdinand the Bull?
Merlin: No, no, no.
John: You're the cheese.
John: You're the cheese that stands alone.
Merlin: Oh, because the farmer took my wife.
Merlin: That's exactly right.
Merlin: Take my farmer, please.
John: The cheese that stands alone.
Merlin: The cheese stands alone.
John: Why is he in Adele?
Merlin: Why is he in Adele?
Merlin: I don't even know what Adele is.
Merlin: Is Adele different from a meadow?
Merlin: I know there's Adele the singer.
Merlin: She sang Skyfall.
Merlin: But what is Adele and why is the farmer in it?
Merlin: When we come back from the break, John Roderick.
John: Adele is like a little valley.
John: There's a little stream running through it.
John: Right?
John: Yeah.
John: Okay.
John: And he decided to farm there.
John: Is he a rice farmer?
John: No, no.
John: I think there's a stream, but I think there's probably some cows.
John: It's not like a marsh.
Merlin: The farmer takes a wife.
Merlin: What does the wife do?
Merlin: The wife has been taking a lot more aerobics classes lately.
Merlin: Right.
Merlin: I do remember the cheese stands alone.
John: That's why she doesn't have the cheese anymore.
John: Who wrote I am the cheese?
Merlin: That wasn't Beverly Cleary.
Merlin: Who was that?
Merlin: Was that Judy Blume?
Merlin: Who wrote I am the cheese?
Merlin: Might have been Beverly Cleary.
John: Who took my cheese?
John: Ramona Quimby.
Merlin: Who moved my cheese?
Merlin: No.
Merlin: No, not here you don't.
Merlin: You know what?
Merlin: The print in that book is too large.
Merlin: The print is too large.
Merlin: The print is too large.
Merlin: It lets you know.
Merlin: It's one of those kinds of books.
Merlin: The print is large and that lets you know.
Merlin: It's one of those like a Tom Peters book where it's meant to be read by a simple person on an airline.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
John: It's okay.
John: It's fine.
John: It's fine.
John: Is it a potty book?
John: Like you keep it in the potty and you open it up and you learn something.
John: No, you learn something, but it's just as long as a time in your bathroom.
Merlin: I don't know, man.
Merlin: Let's see, who else do I like?
Merlin: Oh, you know who's great in that also in Iron Man 2 is I was trying to explain Mickey Rourke to my kid.
Merlin: I want to mention at this juncture.
John: That's a lot to explain.
Merlin: Well, my kid did not ask for an explanation of Mickey Rourke.
Ha ha.
Merlin: No one's ever, I think, well, people who used to know, people who knew Mickey Rourke in the days of Barfly may be asking for explanations.
Merlin: But I just take him, I just take him at face value.
Merlin: And boy, what a face.
Merlin: He's really puffed that boy up, hadn't he?
Merlin: I'll say.
Merlin: Boy.
Merlin: I like it when Sam Rockwell brings him.
Merlin: Tip your bartenders.
Merlin: He brings him, I sure will, brings him a babies for all my friends.
Merlin: Now you did the Faye Dunaway part.
Merlin: Jersey Power Fly, that was a good movie.
Merlin: That was the Charles Bukowski novel, I believe.
John: Chuck Buck, we called him.
John: We were in Spain.
John: I was 20 years old, only 20.
John: And we were in Spain.
John: And we decided we were going to quit smoking.
John: We were all smoking too much.
John: And we bought like a carton of cigarettes at some place.
Merlin: Is it okay if I ask who the we is?
Merlin: So the we, at this point... Because you're 20.
Merlin: I think of you being 20 in Europe.
Merlin: I think of you as being... Was it a traveling companion?
Merlin: Was it someone who caught up at a hostel or something?
Merlin: You made a friend?
John: It was, it was two, two friends and I'd been traveling with two guys who were from your area from, uh, from Walnut Creek.
John: Wow.
John: And then I lost them.
John: It was one of these things where we were supposed to meet.
John: I took a separate trip, uh, over to England and we were going to all meet at the Madrid airport or no, no, no, no train station, like, uh, like in Marseille or something.
John: And I got there late.
John: And they were gone and I was like, oh, well, there was no other way to meet up with somebody.
John: We had made a plan.
John: And so then I was alone and I was in some youth hostel and I met two guys, guys my age.
John: Who were there on an archeology dig, but they were like the assistants, you know, they weren't like, they were young, but they were working on this dig all summer, but they'd had, they had two weeks or something to travel.
John: And it was one of those where you meet two guys and you're just like, Oh my God, where have you been all my life?
John: But they were not like me at all.
John: They were, they were in college.
Merlin: I love encounters like that.
John: Yeah.
John: They were doing good in life.
Merlin: You know, they were like, it's exciting.
Merlin: It's like, I always heard that if you're going to just real quick, I heard, I've always heard that if you're going to bring a new cat into your house and you have an existing cat, I've always heard you introduce them to each other somewhere that neither of them has ever been.
Merlin: And that in a, in, in a typical cat mind,
Merlin: In a typical cat mind, they will both assume it's the other cat's house where they're meeting.
Merlin: Oh, I see.
Merlin: Whereas, if you've got your old Tom, as you call him, who's been running that joint for a while, you've got Louis or whomever already, and you bring in this fresh cat, and Louis or whomever is going to feel kind of threatened by this new kitty on the block.
Merlin: And I think that's what a hostel is.
Merlin: It's exciting to go and meet people.
Merlin: You're meeting all people who are outside of their normal environment.
John: That's right.
John: I'd like to credit you for the little hat tip to Lewis.
John: That means a lot to me.
John: It really does.
John: You loved him.
John: I did.
John: Yeah.
John: But anyway, so then we started traveling together.
John: And one of the things we had in common is that they love to drink, but they weren't.
John: They love to drink.
John: You love to smoke.
John: It's a match made in heaven.
John: But they weren't like trying to destroy the world.
John: Let's buy a carton of cigarettes.
John: And we had this perfect union because we were all three of us the type of people that if we walked past a wedding, we didn't even have to look at each other.
John: We were like, we're going in this wedding.
John: Yep.
John: And so everywhere we went, it was just like, bam, bam, bam.
John: And they had this kind of charming handsomeness that, you know, when I would go into a wedding, they'd be like, oh my God, that's gotta be somebody.
John: These are the two boys from the Bay Area suburbs.
John: No, no, no.
John: These are different guys.
John: These guys, I don't even remember where they were from.
John: Okay.
John: Was it from the U.S.
John: or from somewhere outside?
John: Yeah, from the U.S.
John: They were there working on this archaeology thing.
John: I lost the guys from Walnut Creek.
John: All right, sorry.
John: Anyway, we traveled all over.
John: We went down to Portugal.
John: We went ba-da-ba-da-ba-da.
John: We went all the way down to Algeciras.
John: And then we were, excuse me, we were in Sevilla.
John: And we'd been talking.
John: This was about at the end of their two week break.
John: And they were like, you need to come with us back to the dig and we'll get you a job.
John: And then you'll be an archeologist.
Merlin: Oh, John.
Merlin: That'd be so great.
Merlin: You got an in.
John: I know, and I was like, I want to be an archaeologist.
John: And they were like, yeah, us too.
John: You love antiquarian things.
John: And it was in France, you know, the dig was in France.
John: It was some kind of like horses painted on a wall type of thing.
John: That's what they found, yes!
John: Exactly, yes.
John: And I was like, well, okay, I'm going with you guys.
John: Like, I have zero prospects.
John: Like, I'll go with you.
John: You got anything better to do?
John: I'll be an archaeologist and they're like, yeah, we just we sit with little brushes and they make us do stuff.
John: You know, we have to do stuff, but it's but it's like amazing.
John: And then we're in the we're in the main cathedral in Sevilla.
John: And we're just like basically getting, it's like two more days and we're going to, and I'm going to go be an archeologist.
John: And then I hear John from across the cathedral.
John: And this is back in a, in a time in Europe where there weren't anybody's.
John: So it was like, you walk into a cathedral and there's like eight people in there.
John: And I was, I turned and it was my two friends from Walnut Creek.
John: Shut up.
John: And I was like, oh my God, you guys.
John: And so they came over and now I'm introducing, you know, the two worlds, these guys from Walnut Creek and these archeologists and they don't really vibe on each other at all.
John: Oh.
John: And so we all went out trying to like go out that night together.
John: And then it was like, these two friends want to hang out with me and these two friends want to hang out with them.
John: They don't have any interest in each other.
John: And my two friends from Walnut Creek said, we're going to Morocco.
John: And my archaeologist friends were like, we're going to go be archaeologists.
Merlin: And both of those, this is interesting to me.
Merlin: So you'd mislaid, if I could say, your Creek friends.
Merlin: And they developed this Morocco plan in your absence.
Merlin: So now you've got two different braces of dudes who each have a plan.
Merlin: And you have to decide who's going to move your cheese.
Merlin: Are you going to go to Morocco with the Creekiers?
Merlin: Or are you going to go dig up some caves?
John: right and you know this this happened a couple years later it's like oh no no no yeah several well a decade later are you going to go to south africa and work with the truth and reconciliation committee or are you going to go to south by southwest with the western state hurricanes yeah huh and i had to choose then and there was a you know there was a that's why we have peace in south africa today
John: There was a Knight of Templar there who was like really wisely And and so I was like I'm going I gotta go to Morocco with these guys I started the trip with them and you know and it's one of these like I'll meet up with you in the in France and they were like yeah sure you will and
John: And it's one of those like, oh, what would my life have been?
John: It would have been different.
John: But anyway, then we went down back to Algeciras with my Walnut Creek friends.
John: I was still only 20.
John: We'd been smoking cigarettes and we were like, let's go to see Barfly.
John: It's the only movie in English.
Whoa.
John: And we're all Bukowski fans because we're 20 years old and it's 1989.
John: And we're like, yeah, right on.
John: And so, but we, but like the night before we'd all decided cigarette smoking is terrible and this is bad.
John: And we'd gone down and we, what else are you going to do if you can't smoke?
John: Well, yeah, I know.
John: But we were like, ah, we have to, I don't know, be better or something.
John: We threw our cigarettes into the Mediterranean.
John: on the Mediterranean side, threw him in.
John: We're never smoking again.
John: And then we went to see bar fly.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: And did you get, not triggered is probably the wrong word, but that made you want to smoke.
Merlin: Sometimes when I watch stuff like that, it makes me want to do something I don't do anymore.
John: In Spain at that time, you could smoke in movie theaters and everybody was smoking.
John: And there was a cigarette machine in the lobby of the movie theater.
John: Talk about an attractive nuisance.
John: Jesus Christ.
John: We started watching Barfly.
John: And within five minutes, one of us got up and went into the lobby and came back with a pack of cigarettes and meals.
John: And then we were like, we just threw away a whole carton of cigarettes.
John: That was not nothing to us at the time.
Merlin: You never know, though.
Merlin: That's still, even though in the moment it probably seemed, that's too much to get into.
Merlin: But I think sometimes when you get an inflection point, you really never know what's going to take.
Merlin: It's true.
Merlin: You got to throw out a lot of cigarettes in life before you realize what you shouldn't be doing.
John: They were Ducatos, too.
John: They were like cigarettes that every one of them made you want to barf.
John: Like the worst cigarette.
John: You can't even imagine.
John: I mean, it's why Spain was fascist for 50 years.
Merlin: They're Franco Rias, they call them.
Merlin: Francisco Francisco.
Merlin: Stupid.
Merlin: Fucking stupid.
Merlin: I'm looking at pictures of Mickey Rourke in 1987.
Merlin: Jim and Christmas.
John: He was a handsome, handsome guy.
Merlin: Yeah, I mean, even or especially, here's his photo, his official promo photo for that.
Merlin: And I'll also, because I'm guessing you probably haven't seen it, I will also find a picture of him in the movie Iron Man 2.
John: Oh, but I did see him in the boxing movie, his comeback movie, where he was like, yeah, the wrestler.
John: Yeah, that was good.
John: And that was like, whoa, Mickey Rourke.
John: Whoa, bro.
John: I know.
John: But he was very good in the movie.
John: Oh, I totally agree.
John: and then he was in that movie what was the movie you've seen this movie where it was basically a comic book except it was a movie i mean not like iron man 2 sin city yeah he was a little impressed that i got that no that was good that was good yeah you did get it anyway he was in that but it felt like this is a cartoon so this is maybe like not exactly how he looks but it
Merlin: But it was.
Merlin: All right.
Merlin: So there's bar flying right below that.
John: See, the thing is, at that moment in my life, I wanted to look exactly like this.
John: This is what I wanted.
John: I wanted to be Mickey Rourke in Barfly.
Merlin: I mean, I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but sort of like a learned drifter.
Merlin: A learned drifter.
Merlin: Thank you.
Merlin: But there's something to the drifters.
Merlin: Like, did you ever watch, I don't know why I'm asking you this.
Merlin: This is definitely one of those.
Merlin: You've either seen this a million times or you've never seen it, but did you ever see Slacker, the movie?
Merlin: I did.
Merlin: I saw it.
Merlin: I saw it then.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: There's a guy in that movie, after they steal the automobile parts from the junkyard and sneak out through a hole in the fence, there's this guy who jumps into the convertible with them, as in the whole movie, is with somebody for just a few minutes.
Merlin: But people like that, people like a Bukowski character, there's a million of these.
Merlin: Like almost like a Tom Waits kind of character.
Merlin: But when I say I'm not saying hobo, I'm not saying tramp, I'm not saying homeless, I think it's different.
Merlin: If you're a drifter, and remember when you're in a bar, never look lonesome, never look lonely, only ever look lonesome.
Merlin: A drifter is lonesome.
Merlin: Lonesome.
Merlin: As opposed to lonely.
Merlin: Never lonely, always lonesome.
Merlin: And I think that's the kind of drifter a person wants to be.
John: I tried so hard.
Merlin: He just released.
Merlin: I just saw a live performance of fucking Tom Waits doing Tom Trabert's blues last week.
Merlin: It's a brand new recording.
Merlin: And I had this moment that I'm going to say the most.
Merlin: As somebody who's been a fan of Tom Waits since 1985, like a huge fan of Tom Waits since...
Merlin: swordfish trombones but especially raindogs um and then i went back you know after that yeah yeah i bought all his records on vinyl back in the day oh no my photo didn't go through to you um is that i saw the mickey work one though oh here's the other one says try again i don't know why i just sent you a picture of me trying to look like mickey work i'm failing utterly i can't wait to see oh look oh jesus christ john
Merlin: Whoa!
Merlin: Hang on, hang on.
Merlin: Put a pin in there for a second.
Merlin: I just want to say, the most obvious thing in the world, you don't even have to know much about Tom Waits to appreciate what an obvious thing this is.
Merlin: Tom Waits, A, still got it.
Merlin: Still got it?
Merlin: Oh, he never lost it.
Merlin: I don't think so, but B, he's finally as old as he sounds.
Merlin: Oh, isn't that incredible?
Merlin: Which you couldn't say when he was 25.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: Because if you go back and you listen to stuff like Old 55, like you listen to the stuff like, you know, in the mid-70s, you know, he already had that vibe.
John: What's he doing in there?
John: On the nickel.
Merlin: What's he building in there?
Merlin: All right.
Merlin: Okay, John, I'm in... Oh, Jesus, fuck.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: I'm in receipt.
Merlin: Oh, John.
Merlin: Ah, okay.
Merlin: I'm sorry, people.
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: Oh, is that your dad and Susan?
John: Yeah.
Merlin: John, this is one of my favorite photos of you I've ever seen.
Merlin: This is such a cute photo.
Merlin: What year is this?
John: Oh, 1990.
Merlin: It's a picture of you getting a little hug from Susan, and you're right next to Dave, who's wearing a cool donical cap, and you're kind of making a... This has got to be, what, late 80s?
John: Early 90s.
Merlin: Early 90s.
Merlin: The glasses are a tell.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You've kind of got that guy who's going to get mugged in a movie in Los Angeles in the mid 80s kind of glasses.
John: Well, the thing about those glasses is that was at a time I knew a girl who worked for the city giving free glasses to people that couldn't afford glasses.
John: Hey, that's me.
John: And I said, I don't can't afford glasses.
John: And she was like, stand up and knock them down.
John: And so for a while, she gave me social security glasses.
John: Oh, man.
John: And I was always like, what are the geekiest ones?
John: What are the lamest ones?
John: What are you talking about?
John: These are awesome.
John: Well, because those were meant for ladies.
John: Oh, I see.
Merlin: They're kind of like Peggy Hill glasses.
John: Yeah, give me the ones for ladies, because those are the ones, because I don't want to look like I just got out of the army.
Merlin: Well, it's like people used to say, I remember in early profiles on the Smiths, they would talk about his, what do they call him, his NHS frames?
John: Yes.
Merlin: Basically, he was wearing the kind of frames that you would get free from the government.
John: Yeah.
John: And those were the ones.
John: And then she found, like, I don't know where she found them, but she found some that actually looked like Buddy Holly glasses.
John: You look good here.
John: This might be the best you ever looked, I'm sorry to say.
John: You know, it's kind of not wrong.
Merlin: You're kind of not wrong.
Merlin: No, you look, man, this is great.
John: You can see the puka shell necklace in that picture.
Merlin: Oh, there it is.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: That's not great.
John: Your dad looks sharp, though.
John: Look at that.
John: He's a sharp-looking guy.
John: Yeah, that shirt was, I remember somebody called me
John: when I was living in a dorm and they were like, dude, you gotta get down to Eddie Bauer.
John: And that was when Eddie Bauer was still, you know, like made in America or whatever.
John: And he was like, this friend said, Eddie Bauer's getting rid of their long sleeve pocket.
Merlin: With a pocket.
Merlin: That's so badass.
John: And they're selling them for five bucks each if you get down here before, and this was in Spokane.
John: And I honestly, it was at a time in life when I ran down to Eddie Bauer and they had those shirts in a whole rainbow of colors.
John: And I had that moment that I think every guy has had in his life where he's like, well, I'm never wearing anything else.
Merlin: I'm going to get one of every color.
Merlin: It's nice to get the feeling that it's an option.
Merlin: Like you finally found what your thing is.
John: This is it.
John: This is my thing.
John: And I did.
John: I got a blue one.
John: I got a green one.
John: I got a purple, but like a tomato.
John: Not tomato.
Merlin: Well, five bucks, there's nothing to lose.
Merlin: You can't afford not to buy them.
John: And then there were white ones.
John: Oh, and here's the crazy thing.
John: Now I'm remembering.
John: There were mock turtlenecks.
John: Okay, that's no good.
John: You look like the rock.
John: It was bad.
John: Yeah, yeah.
John: Mock turtlenecks were bad, but I did get a white mock turtleneck thinking, oh, well, maybe I can pull off like a Maine fisherman thing.
John: No, no, no, not at all.
John: No.
John: Oh, no.
John: Ooh.
John: No.
John: But then some girlfriend was like, what the hell is this shirt?
John: And she sewed the, she cut it off or whatever.
John: Get that off.
John: Sewed the neck.
John: But anyway, that's that story.
John: That's a great story.
John: Yeah, thanks.
Merlin: I'm trying to find old photos of me in a shirt like that.
Merlin: Because I already kind of do that.
Merlin: I have a kind of shirt, a brand and style of shirt that I always wear.
John: A shirt that you wear?
Merlin: What's your shirt?
John: Tell us about your shirt.
Merlin: It's a long sleeve, non-pocket shirt that I like a lot.
Merlin: No collar?
Merlin: No collar, no collar.
Merlin: No, no, because I layer.
John: You're a casual collar.
Merlin: You're a man of the people.
Merlin: I think this is me at about that age.
Merlin: When was this?
Merlin: This would be March of 99.
Merlin: So, wait, no, no, that can't be right.
Merlin: I'd be a lot older than you here.
Merlin: But here's me in one of those kind of sort of shirts, kind of.
Merlin: That one with me and me.
Merlin: This one's from Steinhardt, I think.
Merlin: I love the one of you in Alaska.
Merlin: I'm not quite, you know what?
Merlin: I don't want to commit, but if I can, I'll try to put these in show notes with your permission.
John: Do you see in that Alaska picture that big scar over my eye?
John: I do.
John: that's why i'm not wearing glasses because because you were in a in a local production of the cane mutiny when i got when i got bashed in the face to get that scar they also broke my glasses and so there were there were several i don't know weeks you look like who's that rapper the guy who says it's hot in here
Merlin: You got like a bandaid.
Merlin: Macklemore?
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: You look like Macklemore.
Merlin: It's hot in here.
Merlin: I think the fellow's name is Nelly, which is not a name you normally choose for yourself.
Merlin: But you've got long ass hair in this.
Merlin: You've got, you've got, what do you look like?
Merlin: You look like you're in the fucking, looks like you're in the wonder stuff right before they get popular.
Merlin: You look like this hair will be cut soon, or maybe you're in jellyfish.
Merlin: You look a little bit jellyfish.
Merlin: A little, yeah.
Merlin: I see that.
Merlin: What's that behind you?
Merlin: What's that building in?
Merlin: It's beautiful.
John: Is it like a mosque or something?
John: No, it's like the castle in Sintra, although calling it a mosque is probably pretty smart because that's that kind of stuff.
Merlin: It's got a domey guy on it.
Merlin: It's got battlements.
John: It's in Spain.
John: I think it's Sintra, but I'm not.
Merlin: I'm very interested in how you defend a castle.
Merlin: I've learned a lot about it in the last year.
Merlin: You know, one of the things.
John: The star patterns.
Merlin: The fucking star patterns.
Merlin: It changed everything.
John: Oh, well, that's the outside.
John: But in the inside, all the staircases in a smart castle, all the staircases are built so that you in the defender position can swing your sword with your right hand.
John: But the people that are coming in or down the stairs, they have to fight against the wall.
Merlin: Dexter and sinister, they call it.
Merlin: Is that what they call it?
Merlin: Oh, no.
Merlin: No, but I get what you're saying.
Merlin: There's all kinds of things.
Merlin: Well, there's those famous, I'm not going to say the word, but there's those famous steps at the college in Boston.
Merlin: There's all these ways that you can do interesting stuff to your environment.
Merlin: And castles, dude, are a fucking great example of what you're talking about.
Merlin: I'd never heard of this particular... What I hear you saying is that there's steps.
Merlin: going down somewhere.
Merlin: And then I'm guessing that as you go down the steps, there's a wide berth to the right of the steps and a wall on the left.
Merlin: Meaning that somebody who's trying to wield a sword right-handed coming up the steps doesn't have any way to swing.
John: Or whichever way the idea is that you in the castle, if the walls were breached, you would retreat further and further back into the keep.
Right.
John: And as you retreated back, the invaders would be forced to confront all these new obstacles.
John: Yeah, you know what?
John: It's a fun house.
Merlin: It's not very funny.
Merlin: And there's that one area, like, right, you go to the portcullis, you go through that little garage.
Merlin: What's the name they call it?
Merlin: The killing room or something?
Merlin: That thing where they can, like, pour stuff on you from above.
Merlin: Oh, that's a bad room.
Merlin: That's such a bad room.
Merlin: But then you also get, you know, you know this probably, but, you know, can a camel fit through the eye of a needle?
Merlin: I heard that's actually about castles.
Merlin: About castles.
Merlin: Because a needle is the thing you fire your archers fire through.
Merlin: That's that kind of needle.
Merlin: There's certain kinds of needles in castles that are also people-sized needles where you can only get through it if you're, say, not wearing armor and carrying a broadsword.
Merlin: Right, I think there's not wearing design tweaks like this John you got to be careful with videos about castles like so many things you got to be careful because pretty soon You know what you're only getting is videos about castles, which I don't always mind I mean I like to go down a YouTube castles a month telling you I'm telling you
Merlin: Yeah, there's a few and I mean there's a lot of good ones But I like the ones that are like the evolution of castle defenses over the years Like it used to be that you just want a place that's on top of a hill And then we're gonna add to that this idea of having some kind of an area in between we're gonna But you know what I mean about the star forts the thing where like you every single angle of an approaching defender you have a shot at them It looks almost like a like a fractal we're like each instead of just having four this is so boring and
Merlin: But also, you know why they got the round castle parts is because that's harder to blow up than a square part.
John: And it's funny because when you look at them like as a history, you go, oh, but then the canon was invented and that doesn't work anymore.
Merlin: Well, that's why everyone should watch Henry V, directed by Kenneth Branagh, because the battle at the Castle Harfleur in South France.
Merlin: Harfleur.
Merlin: That was on the way to Agincourt, but a couple weeks before Agincourt, which they also shouldn't have won.
Merlin: But Harfleur, I think, I think, I don't know if this is true.
Merlin: I'm going to have to listen to my history podcast and see if this is correct.
Merlin: I'm pretty sure Harfleur is considered one of the first major sieges with gunpowder in, at least in like in England.
Merlin: Not like crazy Chinese stuff, but like big ass, like we can send things in over your wall that explode.
John: Can you imagine?
Merlin: Can you?
Merlin: Can you?
Merlin: Seriously, can you fucking imagine?
Merlin: Because, oh, dude, don't get me started.
Merlin: This is all I watch is stuff like this.
Merlin: But just learning about the role of artillery, having the ability to shoot from slightly further away with slightly more accuracy, and how, like, there will be just these revolutions.
Merlin: every N years of like, oh, okay, I guess everything we've done up till now is now useless.
Merlin: You can totally starve us out now.
Merlin: We thought we had a plan for three years of provisions and we'd be safe from anything because we got a pork cost, we got a dropage, we got a kill zone, we got all the stuff, we got the needles.
Merlin: But if you can lob exploding things into the area where the horses and the hay is, that's going to be a problem.
Merlin: The horses and the hay is for horses, Nestor.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: I love this stuff, John.
John: I love this stuff.
John: No, no, no, no, no.
John: I know you love a metaphor.
John: Oh, I do.
John: Here we have been podcasting.
John: Okay.
John: Now for 15 years.
John: 15 years.
John: Not me, because as Dan Benjamin used to say, I am not one of the first podcasters.
John: I came in generation two.
Merlin: It would be so easy to get that out of your craw.
Merlin: It's just such an easy one for you to drop, and I don't understand it.
Merlin: But we don't get to pick our traumas, John.
Merlin: You can write that down.
John: we didn't start our show until 2011 so it's only been 14 years for me yes yes but you jesus you know you're probably you're 16 now by now maybe longer anyway it's very important we've been people fighting we've been fighting this with this castle design for 15 years which one which one
John: Oh, you're saying it's time for a revolution.
John: Who is going to throw the first burning orb over the wall of podcasting?
John: Advertisers.
Merlin: And with that, we end the Roderick on the Line podcast for all time, because we'll never do any better.
Merlin: But I see what you're saying.
Merlin: It's like Peter Brady says, it's time to change.
Merlin: It's time to rearrange.
Merlin: You're saying we're cock of the walk.
Merlin: We got all the stuff, and we're ready, and we got provisions and stuff.
Merlin: Oh, boy, you really don't want to get into these videos.
Merlin: There's a lot of them.
Merlin: I love it, but I don't know.
Merlin: Well, I mean, my big thing of really this year and probably further.
Merlin: Oh, look at you.
Merlin: Wait, is that you?
John: I can't see.
Merlin: Oh, I'm hiding behind this other photo.
Merlin: Oh, I recognize that.
Merlin: Oh, that's me.
Merlin: I know that shirt.
Merlin: Yeah, that's another shirt of yours.
Merlin: Maybe.
Merlin: But the, you know, it's like Donald Rumsfeld says, you know, disruption.
Yeah.
Merlin: What were we talking about?
Merlin: We're getting ready for a siege.
Merlin: Oh, what I was going to say was, yeah, I watch a lot of castle videos, but a lot of what I watch, I watch a lot of stuff about naval battles now and air battles.
John: Oh my God.
John: You're such a dad.
John: Naval battles of all time.
John: Are you going to do dioramas?
John: Are you going to paint Ronan?
John: I'm going to tear up my train to do that.
John: I'm going to talk to you one day and you're like, oh yeah, I'm going to start this show and there's going to be like crinkling and moving pens around on the desk.
John: And I'm going to go, what are you doing in there?
John: And what is he doing in there?
John: And you're going to say, I'm painting Ronan.
John: Oh, you mean like a little samurai?
John: Yeah, you're in there painting him.
Merlin: I think what I would probably say is that despite the many injuries that cost him his vision in his eye and his right arm, Nelson decided to storm straight into the ships at Trafalgar, cutting their line in half, causing hours for the front ships to be able to, the vanguards to be able to... I've watched so many fucking videos about Trafalgar.
Merlin: I've watched more videos about Trafalgar than you've had on me.
Ha ha ha ha!
Merlin: It's up there with the Beatles.
Merlin: It's up there.
Merlin: I know so much.
Merlin: And you understand, Jason and I still have regular calls just to talk about Master and Commander.
John: Oh, I know.
John: He's obsessed.
John: But he's still mad that I haven't read any of the books.
John: Well, talking about sticking in his craw, he's mad when we talked about Master and Commander on Friendly Fire that we got it all wrong.
John: Oh, did you?
John: I'm like, we only got it wrong, Jason, because we haven't read all 30 of those books.
Merlin: Yeah, I think they had to compress a fair amount.
John: Yeah.
John: Probably.
John: I'm sending you pictures of castles now.
John: Yeah.
John: Because I know you love castles.
John: All the castles that I've visited.
John: Let's see.
Merlin: We've always lived in the castle.
Merlin: Man in the high castle.
Merlin: Oh, look at that castle.
Merlin: Is that a Las Vegas castle?
Merlin: That's a castle in Las Vegas.
Merlin: Please tell me you went into the Apple's photo app and just searched for castle.
Merlin: I did that as a joke.
Merlin: Okay, now I'm going to do that.
John: No, these are regular castles.
John: You know, this is another thing.
John: There's a couple things we don't do on this show.
Merlin: We don't get to have just our regular phone calls anymore.
John: Everything's performance.
Merlin: But this is closer in spirit to our regular castles.
Merlin: Phone calls.
John: Oh, yeah?
Merlin: You want a picture of a castle?
Merlin: Here's six castles, you fuck.
Merlin: Castle.
Merlin: I'm searching for castles.
John: Castle.
John: Castle.
Merlin: Let's see.
Merlin: You've got Frank Castle.
Merlin: You've got Castle Doctrine.
John: You've got William Castle.
John: Who's Frank Castle?
John: I know who that is.
Merlin: I think Frank Castle might be the Punisher, but I'm not sure.
Merlin: Or he could be a character.
Merlin: He's some kind of a murder man on TV.
Merlin: But you've also got William Castle, the splatter director.
Merlin: Okay, here's my kid in front of the Harry Potter castle.
Merlin: There's a white castle.
John: That was the first fast food restaurant I've ever visited that wasn't one I already knew.
John: I love that feeling.
Merlin: Isn't that exciting?
Merlin: No, I know.
John: You don't have to say it.
Merlin: I know exactly what you mean where you're like, of course I know McDonald's.
Merlin: Of course I know Burger King.
Merlin: I know all of those.
Merlin: But then you're like, I remember that it was a jokey fun thing to have a bumper sticker in the 90s that said In-N-Out.
Merlin: In-N-Out.
Merlin: And you say, what is that?
Merlin: And people would go, in-N-Out.
Merlin: Believe it or not, it's a Christian fast food chain in California.
Merlin: You'd be like, huh.
Merlin: I didn't know they were Christians.
Merlin: You ever look on the bottom of your cup?
John: No.
John: Why would I do that?
John: What's on the bottom of my cup?
John: Is it a fish?
John: Is it a Jesus fish?
John: Close.
Merlin: Be a Bible verse.
Merlin: You'll see like a John 3.16 or a 1 John 4.7 and 8.
Merlin: You're kidding.
Merlin: I didn't know that.
Merlin: Let us love one another.
Merlin: For love is of God, and everyone who loveth is born of God and knoweth God.
Merlin: But he that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.
Merlin: So, beloved, let us love one another.
Merlin: 1 John 4.7 and 8.
John: Are you reading that from the bottom of an In-N-Out cup, or do you have that memorized?
Merlin: Let's say, for the sake of my image, that I am.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: But no, you grew up in a Christian environment.
Merlin: Fuck yeah, I did.
Merlin: I'm still in a Christian environment.
John: In a lot of ways.
John: You have that memorized.
Merlin: It's in my bones, and I love, love, love, love talking to people about it, for real.
Merlin: Like, it's so nice, and it's really nice.
Merlin: Because, you know, there's a secret thing.
Merlin: in the world that's unseemly to talk about.
Merlin: Is it in the basement of the Vatican?
John: Is that what we're talking about?
John: Is it a tunnel to the Louvre?
Merlin: Silly!
Merlin: There's no basement in the Vatican!
Merlin: I just made a Pee Wee Herman joke.
Merlin: Anyway.
Merlin: Simone, all my friends have big butts.
Merlin: But what I was going to say was, never mind, forget it.
Merlin: I'm not going to get into it.
Merlin: Not going to get into it.
John: No, no, no.
Merlin: I want to get into it.
Merlin: Well, I get frustrated.
Merlin: I understand why people have the feelings that they have about especially organized religion and maybe sometimes even just about the whole concept of faith.
Merlin: And I have a very different idea of that.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I feel like I'm a man without a flag in a lot of ways.
Merlin: Because whilst I am not currently a man of faith, I benefited hugely from being raised in a church full of awesome people.
Merlin: And it bums me out when people throw the baby out with the bath.
Merlin: I understand.
Merlin: I understand why.
Merlin: Like, and certainly two or three times a month, I will come across something where I'm like, yeah, maybe just religion really just was a bad idea, but it bums me out.
Merlin: And so I like visiting people.
Merlin: I like talking with people, you know, about how that can be a great thing.
Merlin: And there's some people that I know who are like some of my favorite people who are just quietly exercising the benefits of thinking and behaving in a Christlike way.
Merlin: And I love that about those people.
John: One of the first, I don't, you know, since we're already peeking behind the curtain here.
John: Yeah.
Merlin: We started that a while back.
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
John: One of the first disagreements you and I ever had on this podcast when we were early days.
Merlin: Oh no.
Merlin: Is it one of the ones?
Merlin: Oh no, John.
Merlin: Don't, don't, don't.
John: This is one of the, this is one of the ones that didn't get published.
John: Yeah.
John: I remember those.
John: And, and, and it was, I was saying something irreverent about Christians and
John: and you said hey some of the some of my favorite people in the world are christians and i was so chagrined i was like oh and you know ken jennings did that to me once too we were on a flight or something and i was like anyway you know i'd read under the banner of heaven and i was like you know how mormons are and he was like hey i'm mormon and i was like oh oh right and he was like yeah
John: It's not funny to me.
John: And I was like, shit.
John: But yeah, for whatever reason, we didn't publish that episode.
John: It might have been.
Merlin: For whatever reason.
Merlin: Well, someday I'm going to do the tell-all book about this, and people are going to know how it really operates.
John: Well, you know, there's a lot of speculation, but I think most of it was just that, you know, that I was just dropping too many truths.
Merlin: I mean, I don't... It sounds deeply condescending to say, I understand.
Merlin: But I do understand.
Merlin: I do understand when...
Merlin: Especially people... Well, you know what?
Merlin: I super don't want to get into it.
Merlin: I just sent you... Oh, it didn't animate.
Merlin: I sent you a funny animated GIF, but I don't think it animated.
Merlin: Oh, well.
Merlin: How do you do that?
John: I'm doing that all the time.
John: Apple photos.
John: Here's a funny GIF.
Merlin: Yeah, I know.
Merlin: Have fun storming the castle.
Merlin: Have fun storming the castle.
John: You know, Marlo, uh, did a, uh, did a summer, uh, musical program and they did the princess bride.
John: Really?
John: And you know, she has always from the time she was very little, like we went to some, uh, local theater company and on our way there, she said seven years old.
John: Well, I'm a natural to play the lead, so I'm sure they're going to cast me as the lead.
John: And I said, well, sweetie, this is a big theater company, so it's possible, but I just want you to be prepared.
John: for the possibility that they cast someone else.
John: And she was like, I'm seven years old.
John: The lead character is seven years old.
John: There's no question they're going to, and we got there and there, there were 80 people auditioning theater moms.
Merlin: But the thing you can't say is so difficult to get across is that, yeah, but what you can't get into is like the hustle and the weirdness and the insiderness of people who are much more invested in that system than you are.
Merlin: Yes.
John: So much hustle.
John: And the actress that was eventually cast as the seven-year-old was a 17-year-old.
John: I can play seven.
John: And my daughter was like outraged.
John: Like, how is this possible?
John: And I said, sweetie, these people are doing theater.
John: This is theater and they're doing theater.
John: And we have not made this commitment, lifestyle commitment.
John: to go to auditions right but so she gets she's going to do princess bride and on her way there the first day she's like clearly they're going to cast me as princess buttercup i said oh my goodness maybe but also remember princess buttercup isn't really the best role
John: in the Princess Bride.
John: There are other roles that you should be prepared.
John: And she was like, I don't see how they're gonna cast anybody else.
John: You think she should have gone out for the Carole Kane part?
John: They cast her as Miracle Max.
Merlin: Oh, wait, that actor, not Ben, but that guy from Not Necessarily the News, right?
Merlin: The guy who tortures him?
Merlin: No, Miracle Max.
Merlin: Oh, that's Billy Crystal?
Merlin: That's Billy Crystal.
Merlin: Oh, that's so fun.
Merlin: And she came home and she's like, I'm Miracle Max.
Merlin: What a weird movie.
Merlin: That's the best.
Merlin: That's the best.
Merlin: I love how cheaply made everything in that movie.
Merlin: I love every single bit about the budget of that movie.
Merlin: It's so good.
Merlin: It's all on the screen.
Merlin: I mean, there was an incredible size.
Merlin: But, like, I still like the sword fighting scene where, like, he knows something that he doesn't know.
Merlin: Well, obviously, hey, guess what?
Merlin: We're the first people on the internet who ever liked The Princess Bride.
Merlin: Is it a kissing movie?
Merlin: Isn't kissing even?
Merlin: It's implied.
John: How did it go?
John: Did she end up signing on?
John: Oh, she was thrilled.
John: And her best friend was Carol Kane.
John: And so the two of them chewed up the scenery.
John: Just chewed it up.
John: And I keep saying, you know, babe, the character actors are some of the best roles in any production.
John: Thousand percent.
John: Yeah, don't get all bent out of shape about what role you get cast in.
John: Just make the most of whatever role you get cast in.
John: And she's like, meh, your advice fits into a thimble compared to what I already know as a 13-year-old about the world.
Merlin: It doesn't fit.
Merlin: At this point, I've just gotten to where I just will start to say something, and then I'll stop, and then I'll say aloud ears to hear.
Merlin: Because I know what it's like to not have the ears to hear something.
Merlin: I know that better than a lot of people.
Merlin: I'm not...
Merlin: No, it's the opposite of superiority.
Merlin: It's shittiority.
Merlin: Shittiority.
Merlin: I'm not going to write that down.
Merlin: But I know that feeling of like, well, you could try to clue somebody.
Merlin: Hey, you know what the best part about theater is?
Merlin: You know what the best part about playing in band is at school?
Merlin: It's like your pals and meeting new people.
Merlin: And it's an entree into just an organized enough amount of stuff, just enough expertise.
Merlin: As dorky as it was, it's so easy to make fun of kids in band and make fun of kids in drama club and whatever.
Merlin: I was in both.
Merlin: And it was thrilling.
Merlin: It was really neat.
Merlin: My senior year, when we did a play...
Merlin: It was so fun to, like, there was the set and there was the, you know, the blocking and the lines and the tumult and the setbacks.
Merlin: And then you do it for a couple nights.
Merlin: And it's like, that's thrilling.
Merlin: I used to really try and encourage Billy because he...
Merlin: he's a pretty funny performer, but it's not like his top thing.
Merlin: I'd always said, I think you would be so great working behind the scenes.
Merlin: I was like, because you enjoy technical aspects of things and you're great with people.
Merlin: I was like, you could be such a good, not even a stage manager, but you know, just somebody who helps out on the play, which is just as cool and fun.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: Pulling on ropes.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Got a little, got a little leather man, got a teeny flashlight.
John: Exactly.
John: A teeny flashlight.
John: Oh, I met so many.
John: You know, that's what Ariella was in theater, but always running.
John: She was always running the board.
John: She never was on the stage.
John: She was always running the board.
John: Man, that's weird.
John: And it was like, boy.
Merlin: How do you squander that?
Merlin: How do you not put that in front of people?
John: Look at you running the board.
John: But you know what?
John: We just went to the high school to register for classes for next year.
John: And she, the little one, sat at the table with the guy who really just wanted to talk about Gonzaga football or basketball or whatever.
John: And she's like, look, I want to take theater and I want to take band, but you only offer one elective freshman year.
John: And he said, in fact, you get two electives.
John: And she said, you mean I can take theater and band?
John: Wow.
John: And he said, yes.
Merlin: And they don't overlap in terms of time commitment?
John: No.
John: She said, theater, the play is, you know, you rehearse after school.
Mm-hmm.
John: band goes and chases the football team around.
John: Right.
John: And we just, we arrange it.
John: Does she play an instrument now?
John: She plays the clarinet.
John: Oh, I'm so sorry.
John: She plays the clarinet and she likes it enough.
John: You know, like I played, I played the trumpet, but I just did it to really destroy my sister.
John: All of her, all of her solitude.
John: But she actually sits in like.
John: Really?
Merlin: Can she make a pretty sound?
Hmm.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: It's a tough instrument.
Merlin: It is.
Merlin: I started watching this band on YouTube, this old timey kind of like preservation hall style jazz band in New Orleans that just plays on the streets.
Merlin: And that's made me love the clarinet again.
Merlin: It took a while, but now I think I like, I, you know, I like the Benny Goodman stuff, but like clarinet can be pretty rough sometimes.
Merlin: I'm telling you, that jazz.
Merlin: That old jazz.
Merlin: That old jazz, we called him.
Merlin: I'm going to send you a video.
Merlin: I'm going to send you a video lately.
Merlin: That's so cool.
Merlin: Is she pumped?
Merlin: Is she excited?
John: More than me, I'm nervous.
John: You know, high school, I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I don't think.
John: No, no, I believe, dude, you're thinking right.
Merlin: You know, everything's going to fall apart.
Merlin: Just homeschooling, you've thought about homeschooling?
John: I have.
John: You know, the problem is like I've got, all my friends in Seattle, they're like, look, if you send your kid to a really good school, it's just full of rich kids on drugs.
John: And I was like, oh, I know what that looks like.
John: And they said, you got to send them to a school where there's more people than just rich kids on drugs.
John: And I believe that in my heart.
John: But, you know, then you're into this problem of like, well, the problem is you never know.
Merlin: You just never know how it's going to turn out.
Merlin: You know how we have a high school visible from our front window.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: And I was so frustrated when our kid was not accepted there.
Merlin: And I was so, you know, because the kid was going through a lot of changes that can be quite difficult for a kid like my kid.
Merlin: And I thought, you know, I was just like, oh, man, be so nice.
Merlin: Because I'm thinking like me.
Merlin: I'm not thinking like him.
Merlin: And I'm thinking like me.
Merlin: And I'm like, I would love to be able to walk about just about one city block and be at school.
Merlin: If I forgot my homework, I could be back before I was missing.
Merlin: Like, you know, that's my dream.
Merlin: That is not my kid's dream.
Merlin: So my kid goes to school up near Fillmore, like right next door to Fillmore and the Fillmore Theater.
Merlin: That's a commute.
Merlin: It's a little bit of a, yeah, it's a little bit of a jag.
Merlin: Well, of course he drives himself to school now.
Merlin: Oh, that's insane.
Merlin: There's that, I know.
Merlin: Well, yeah, well, Billy, what time is he going to be home?
Merlin: Oh, yeah, he has track after school at Keysar, and then he's driving himself home.
Merlin: Oh, okay.
Merlin: I'll be over here slowly, slowly rotting.
Merlin: But, I mean, long story short, I'm not saying this to, like, say rah-rah us or rah-rah anybody, but I'm like, you never fucking know what is going to work out.
Merlin: I'll give you one example of this that I wish I could get across to more people.
Merlin: There's this phrase that I use sometimes.
Merlin: Make sure you get the good one.
Merlin: That's somebody like John Syracuse.
Merlin: John Syracuse said it's very important to him that he not have broken spines on his books, especially when he's buying the book, let alone when he gets it home.
Merlin: He'll take great care of it.
Merlin: He never breaks his spine.
Merlin: And he always says, like, you know, when you're at the bookstore and you're trying to decide which copy of The Stand to buy, like, they all cost the same.
Merlin: You can pick the one that's got – is in the best condition.
Merlin: And oddly enough, with books, that is often the thing.
Merlin: Like, you will be amazed how two books right next to each other, magazines, whatever.
Merlin: You know what I mean.
Merlin: So he goes to used bookstores but doesn't want used books.
Merlin: It's a whole thing with him and his spines.
Merlin: But like I – what was my point?
Merlin: That the point is you want to get the good one.
Merlin: Now, I'm not trying to say that like some kind of like a mom at the Filene's basement sale or something.
Merlin: But I am saying this.
Merlin: You might go to the nominally statistically best college, high school, junior high, the best school in the world.
Merlin: What happens if you don't get the good teacher or the good teachers?
Merlin: Whereas, and this is, hey, get ready, get ready, because this is the kind of chaos that life is, especially with a kid.
Merlin: Yeah, but by the same token, does that mean that if you go to the shitty school and get the best teacher, it'll go great?
Merlin: It does not mean that at all.
Merlin: All you can really do is hope you get the good one.
Merlin: And it's the kind of long ones, that dumb sort of advice I believe in, which is, like, man, don't apply for a job.
Merlin: Apply to a person as a person.
Merlin: Try to find out what a place needs and, like, you know, all that dumb stuff that you – maybe sort of what colors my parachute stuff.
Merlin: But if you really want something – I'll move my cheese.
Merlin: I move your cheese, John, and I don't want to talk in here.
Merlin: But you've got to go in there and, like – and you've got to, like, sell yourself as somebody who's done the research and knows what's going on and blah, blah, blah.
Merlin: But I guess what I'm saying is, like –
Merlin: I remember interviewing one of the professors at New College for the alumni newsletter, and she said one reason she stopped working at a prominent university in Connecticut.
Merlin: She was like, I was just tired of them treating the entire undergraduate class.
Merlin: like financial cannon fodder.
Merlin: Like everything at this four letter university involves getting money that goes to programs that aren't for undergrads.
Merlin: There was an absolute, she felt, she felt, and I thought this was an interesting thing for her to say, to come to a school with 520 students.
Merlin: She said, look, I, I,
Merlin: It is not a place where doing a great job teaching undergraduates is a top priority.
Merlin: And I wanted to be somewhere where my relationship with those students and what we could do together was not only was supported, was celebrated, and could be successful.
Merlin: And I think about that.
Merlin: I think about that.
Merlin: I want to think about get the good one, because you never know.
Merlin: You know what I'm talking about, dude?
Merlin: It could be like you're in the slow line at the bank or the fast food place or whatever.
Merlin: It could be that you're in the wrong line for the toll booth.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: These are all things from another century.
Merlin: But what I'm saying is just because you've got the nicest car in the world doesn't mean you're going to have the fastest check-in at the airport.
Merlin: Or, like, whatever.
Merlin: You hope you get the good one.
Merlin: My only non-pseudo advice about that is that it doesn't always mean as much to put all of your effort into being the best or getting into the best of something.
Merlin: It's not always worth that because...
Merlin: it's sometimes not worth it.
Merlin: Like, do you have a relationship with the people in that department?
Merlin: Could you see that happening?
Merlin: You know what I mean?
Merlin: I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's nothing you can really learn that much from, except for the contrary idea, admittedly contrary idea, that always demanding that you have the best will make you a happy person.
Merlin: And that in fact, with just QED, that you will get the best if you always demand the best.
Merlin: Because you might be at the White Lotus with the nicest, but if you don't get Belinda, if you don't get the person who's really good at the massage, it's just going to be an expensive massage that sucks.
John: Right.
Merlin: And you can't control it, though.
John: What do you think, what was the way in which, I don't know if we've ever talked about this, what was the way in which the schools best served you?
John: Which schools, in particular?
Merlin: Well, the schools that you went to.
Merlin: Well, a lot of times it was because I got lucky and I got the good one.
Merlin: You got the good teacher.
Merlin: My father got ill before dying, was ill when I was in first grade, and I was in an accelerated first grade class that was a total flyer experiment.
Merlin: It was a very small class that was half first graders and half second graders.
Merlin: And I'm not going to talk in code.
Merlin: They took the smartest first graders, they took the smartest second graders.
Merlin: They put them in one class together with this fucking amazing teacher, Mrs. Jackson.
Merlin: And...
Merlin: I just, I can't begin to tell you, because sometimes I don't feel like I even really remember it.
Merlin: It was right at the edge of things that I can remember in life.
Merlin: Yeah, I remember that when my dad was sick, she threw me a birthday party at her house and gave me a gift.
Merlin: I remember that.
Merlin: My dad was ill, and she made dinner and had us over to the house.
Merlin: Actually, I think it was after my father passed away.
Merlin: But that first birthday, a month after he died.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: They had Rose and Joe had us over to the house.
Merlin: This is the kind of person that that was.
Merlin: I got the good one.
Merlin: And she, one of the smartest kids in the class, used to wet his pants all the time and had to have separate backup pants.
Merlin: Didn't make him feel bad.
Merlin: Didn't make me and Robbie Dissotel, you know, feel bad because we were weird and short and like weren't good at sports.
Merlin: She gave each of us, I feel like from my POV to the best of her ability.
Merlin: She cared a lot about each, how, how that nine months went for each one of us.
Merlin: And now, see, now on the internet, the thing you say next is, yeah, I wish more teachers were like... But you don't fucking know.
Merlin: You might also just be getting a teacher at the wrong time.
Merlin: You might be getting a teacher who, like, just found out they're probably not going to be on the tenure track.
Merlin: You don't... Like, I remember, actually, Mrs. Jackson, it was a big deal because there was going to be a teacher strike.
Merlin: I remember her being so happy when she got the phone call that there wasn't going to be a teacher strike.
Merlin: And...
Merlin: So much tension had been cut.
Merlin: The ones that did the best for me, I mean, there's lessons I'm still learning from my drama teacher in 12th grade that I'm still finding the ears to hear.
Merlin: But I guess, what was that phrase I associate with George W. Bush?
Merlin: What is it?
Merlin: The soft...
Merlin: The soft discrimination of lowered expectations or something like that.
Merlin: Remember that phrase?
Merlin: I do.
Merlin: The way that we end up, I don't know if he meant it to be this profound, but I'm interested in that idea, though, of like, you're not doing anybody any favors by expecting less from them.
Merlin: You can help somebody by expecting different things from them.
Merlin: But just singling people out, some people to expect more of and some people to expect less of, just across the board, not always a great strategy, in my opinion.
Merlin: You've got to tune it for each fucking human being.
Merlin: A good doctor, a good teacher, a good parent knows that every situation with every person is different and has to be dealt with a little bit differently and is resistant to whatever kind of one-size-fits-all solution makes you feel like you're good at your job.
Merlin: And I treasure every one of those people.
Merlin: I'm glad I didn't get more fucked up from the ones who were shitty, but I'm incredibly grateful to probably somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen people where I just got the good one.
John: And you feel like they accommodated the part of you that is extra, that is atypical?
Merlin: Sometimes, yeah.
Merlin: especially especially later on it's a good question especially like in high school and i should find this in photograph but the thing my drama teacher sherry hacker wrote in my yearbook was just it cut me to the to the quick like i she was like you're very you're very talented you're very smart she's like but make sure you use your intelligence for good things
Merlin: And she basically said, try not to be so... Don't be an evil villain.
Merlin: Try not to be so cruel to everybody for no reason other than the fact that you're how you are.
Merlin: But ears to hear, right?
Merlin: I'm still thinking about that today.
Merlin: I mean, I don't know, whatever.
Merlin: I'm probably sounding really pompous saying this, but there are people who... There are the kinds of people who want to treat you like a vessel and just fill you with wisdom and demand.
Merlin: I talked about this recently on another show, how that bugs me.
Merlin: But what's amazing is there are certain kinds of people who can help you develop...
Merlin: A structure you're never even like really quite aware of.
Merlin: Like I learned how to wash my hands when my kid was in preschool, which sounds like a crazy thing to say, except I've washed my hands my whole life.
Merlin: But you know what they did at that school was every transition you wash your hands.
Merlin: Every time you go... Now, understand, at this point, I'm 50, probably, or in my 40s, right?
Merlin: Right, right.
Merlin: But what I learned, and I volunteered there.
Merlin: I was there, like, every day doing something.
Merlin: But what I learned was every time there's a transition, we wash our hands.
Merlin: Well, transition from taking a shit to going to lunch, yeah, you wash your hands.
Merlin: But you know what else?
Merlin: You wash your hands when you arrive.
Merlin: You wash your hands before you leave.
Merlin: You wash your hands after the craft project.
Merlin: It sounds a little bit mental, but...
Merlin: B, not even that importantly, I did notice everybody in our house started getting sick less when we started washing our hands at every transition.
Merlin: Because why?
Merlin: We want to model that for your kid.
Merlin: But I also noticed that being exposed to that, that became a habit that stuck.
Merlin: Did I have to read...
Merlin: a golden book about that?
Merlin: Did I have to absorb six corporate posters about the importance of hand washing, all that kind of stuff?
Merlin: No, the groundwork, the tracks were laid for this good habit, and I was able to inhabit that because I saw it was a good idea.
Merlin: Now, if somebody had just yelled at me to wash my hands all the time, I don't know if that would have made a difference.
Merlin: Maybe I'm just a fancy duchess, but I feel like sometimes what a great educator, a great parent, a great, just a good writer.
Merlin: somebody can inspire you with is like an idea you can't quite completely grok, but I don't know how to put it, but it gives you the opportunity to eventually figure out an improvement opportunity that may be elusive, but at least it's no longer invisible.
John: Isn't it marvelous to watch 30 preschoolers line up to wash their hands?
John: And you know why they do it?
Merlin: They do that because this is what we do.
John: Because this is what we do.
Merlin: Like I'd say to my kid, like we cross the street when we think it's – we don't cross the street like, you know, we go downtown for a movie when my kid was four or five.
Merlin: And I still have such a recollection of being at – certainly, never forget your first – your child's first experience on Sixth and Market.
Merlin: But even a little further down, like by the movie theater –
Merlin: You know, of course, he would always kind of look to me.
Merlin: We'd be holding hands, and I'd say, just remember, watch the signal, but then also watch the cars on left and right.
Merlin: And what we don't do is there's going to be a lot of people.
Merlin: There are going to be some people who never stop walking.
Merlin: They just ignore the signal and go.
Merlin: That's their thing.
Merlin: There's other people who, like, start right before the signal changes because they know the timing.
Merlin: And then there's a ton of people that are all going to start walking at the same time.
Merlin: We don't cross with them, not because we think they're wrong, because that's not what we do.
Merlin: We look out of the corners of our eyes.
Merlin: We look for our blind spots for cars that might be making a right turn that we can, you know, whatever, all that kind of bullshit.
Merlin: But like, remember that you're a motorcycle.
Merlin: Drivers don't see you.
Merlin: You are invisible to drivers.
Merlin: You have to make yourself visible to drivers.
Merlin: And I don't know if that got through in the way that I hoped.
Merlin: On the one hand, I'm trying not to create fear.
Merlin: If anything, I'm trying to gamify a little bit this idea of situational awareness.
Merlin: And I don't want you to memorize anything except keep your head on a swivel.
Merlin: And remember that we do it, we wash hands.
Merlin: the way we wash our hands, the way we cross the street, the way that we do or don't wave people into traffic, we do all of these things because it's who we are.
Merlin: We don't always wave people into traffic because guess what?
Merlin: They can't see what they're doing, and they're going to have to trust me, and if they die, I'm going to feel terrible.
Merlin: You have to make your own decisions on this little dumb shit, and that's something I tried to do.
Merlin: And it sounds like you do that.
Merlin: You have done that your whole time and continue to, you know?
Merlin: Situational awareness, decision-making,
John: all of that but you know what's interesting about my kid is that there is from the time she was very little there was a sort of adamance about her that it's not like i already know but it was something where you know there are in my family as you know some rule followers some real
John: Laura biters.
John: Real sticklers.
John: Laura biters.
John: As we put it, we put an extra R in there.
John: They're Laura biters.
John: And she had that from a very young age.
John: And you know, as, as I lived through the world, I'm like, okay, here are the rules.
John: We know them.
John: Now here are the ways that the rules are, here's why they're there.
John: And now here is certain situations where they're bendable because as you're saying, like this is, this is a, we do not go with everybody.
John: And sometimes everybody goes right into traffic and they're not looking and here comes a bus.
Merlin: And it might even be awkward because there are going to be people behind you who are like, hurry up, asshole.
John: Exactly.
Merlin: There's a lot of pressure for you to follow the crowd.
John: But she very often would be at odds with me because she would say, well, that's not what the sign says.
John: And I would say, I know.
John: And here's why the sign says that.
John: Here's what they mean.
John: And knowing what they mean, I will then, you know, take the initiative.
John: I'm not saying you should, but I'm saying we are going to together.
John: You got to go at some point.
John: And she would do this thing sometimes where a car would come around the corner.
John: We'd be halfway across the street and she would stop.
John: And I would say sweetheart.
John: It feels safe.
John: It feels safe.
John: You are so ain't safe.
John: This is not safe.
John: You don't stop in the middle of the street.
John: And she said, there's a car coming.
John: And I would say, I see the car.
John: We both see the car, but here's what happens now.
John: We keep moving.
John: And if I'm moving and you stop dead, now we're both in danger.
Okay.
Merlin: And you're actually, I mean, I turn my, as you know, I turn and I encourage my kid to do this.
Merlin: If somebody's coming at you in a way that either A, they don't see you or B, more likely they're an asshole, turn your entire fucking body toward them.
Merlin: So that the entire plane of the front of your body faces them and they will see your face.
Merlin: They will see that you are turned toward them.
Merlin: If standing still sideways is about the worst thing you could do.
John: Because now they're super not going to see you.
John: That is a marvelous rule.
John: I really do think that's a marvelous.
Merlin: You have to see me as a face.
Merlin: You're not allowed to see me as an obstruction.
John: Right.
John: We had one just this past, like two weeks ago, where there was a moment where I said, you know, we were in Italy and we'd gotten on the wrong train.
John: and we got out of the train and we were in the wrong place and she just doesn't have the experience to know that anytime you travel you get on the wrong train and then you are in the wrong place and those are not emergencies that's part of those are it's part of the process yeah those are situations and you then reevaluate whatever our plan was
John: We now have to.
John: What happens if you like where you ended up better?
John: Well, right.
Merlin: It sounds crazy, but it's travel.
John: That's what it is.
John: But this was one of those situations where it's like, oh, we were on our way to the hotel to get our bags to catch a train.
John: And now wrong station and the wrong.
Merlin: I ended up in Amityville, New York.
Merlin: I came out of the airport, and I went the wrong way.
Merlin: And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Merlin: And it was like 7.30 p.m.
Merlin: The number of stops was already becoming a little more express.
Merlin: And I was like, oh, I'm going to fucking Amityville, and I'm not loving it.
John: Well, in this situation, her mom and I both have traveled a lot.
John: And she is standing there just perfectly like, oh, we're on the wrong train.
John: All right, we got to figure it out.
John: And our daughter was having a panic episode.
John: Did she feel like a rule had been broken?
John: No, she felt like... Does it kind of relate to her rule following?
John: In a way, there was... I mean, and she's 13.
John: Like, this is exactly when you learn this.
John: Almost 14.
John: Happy birthday.
John: Happy birthday.
John: Thank you.
John: I will tell her.
John: but she had not whatever she just didn't have enough experience in life to know that this is a small thing and at one point this is not a species ending event right and so of course here being dad again i'm like all right here we are the three of us on a street corner this is not where we have not been here before and we do not know where we are what would you do now
John: And she couldn't come up with anything.
John: And I said, well... Was she still feeling a little panicky?
John: Oh, she was all over the place.
John: Really?
John: And I said, you know... And we work with panic all the time.
John: Like here, we just have to collect ourselves.
John: We have to get our heart rate down.
John: We have to breathe.
John: It's all in our bodies first.
John: Like panic is in your body before it's in your mind.
John: 100%.
John: So we work on our body.
Merlin: We've got to be...
Merlin: we're so busy feeling terrified about where we are that the last thing in the world we would ever think is that we have to get okay with where we are.
Merlin: And that's why in movies, you'll see people having a panic attack.
Merlin: Or like Michael McKeon in Better Call Saul, where he's like, the light is bright, the floor is yellow, this is brown.
Merlin: You need a way to ground yourself in the like, here's where I am right now.
Merlin: And running away from it is not the solution.
John: Right.
John: And so I said, we're on a corner.
John: There's four directions we can go.
John: We can't see any cathedral, any monuments, so we can't orient ourselves.
John: Which one of these streets would you go up in order to get your bearing?
John: And all of these were new concepts.
John: Like we have to get our bearings now.
John: So which direction do we go?
John: Like that street seems to go down into a dark neighborhood.
John: That street is headed to a big plaza where the lights are all on.
John: Like, let's go toward the lights.
John: Always go toward the lights, even if it's a UFO on a country road.
John: And so we walk up and we get to this big, busy plaza.
John: And it is no clearer to us where we are.
John: And she's like, well now, and I'm like, no, this is fine or not.
John: No, but you know, like, here we are here now.
John: And you know, and of course, Arielle is just like, do, do, do, do, do.
John: Cause she went around the world with all of her stuff in a, in a,
Merlin: first aid box you know she she there's nothing can face her everybody's everybody's still learning what they can survive right you never know i mean that sounds silly but we never know what we can survive and we we make fun of people and call them a snowflake or whatever but until you've survived it you don't know what you can survive thank god you were there to like kind of like walk her through that and be like this is this is not going to be the end
John: Exactly.
John: And so then we were at a, well, what is, look around us.
John: What is like a saving throw?
John: And it took her a minute, but she was like, taxi cab.
John: And I was like, taxi cab.
John: That's a great solution.
John: That's a fantastic way out.
John: You get in a taxi and you say anything.
John: You say train station.
John: You say, we lost our suitcases, you know, and the taxi driver now is part of your team.
John: That's a good way to put it.
John: You know, like now you've got a, you've got a fourth person that, that knows more than we do.
John: And so we got in a taxi, we made our way to the hotel, we got our bags, we made it to the train station in time, and then we were on a train.
John: And we were on the right train and we were headed where we were going.
John: And I said, okay, let's think back 45 minutes in our past, where were we?
John: And now look at where we are.
John: And somehow we made it from being in the middle of a situation where there was absolutely no solution.
John: You could not conceive of a solution.
John: And now here we are on the right train headed in the right direction.
John: And just look at that series of steps we took.
John: Each one just trying to clarify, like, we just have to get one more piece of information.
John: We're just building a little stack of information.
John: And she was like, huh?
John: And so about a day later.
John: She said, I'm sorry that I don't trust you guys, and I'm going to start trusting you.
John: Oh, my gosh.
John: And I was like, well, at 14 years old, if you can say that you trust your parents.
John: What a cool thing to say.
John: It took you 14 years, but okay, I accept.
John: What a rare gem you have there.
John: Yeah, I don't know.
John: It just seems cool.
John: And then I said, remember that time that we got bad gasoline in our rental car and the motor died in Estonia on a Friday night and there was a thunderstorm?
John: And she was like, oh, my God.
John: And I said, that was the situation.
John: Right.
John: This one is, you know, like there are so many situations.
John: You should just keep that one as a benchmark because I sure do.
John: and we made it out of that so there's nothing you can't you can't just incrementally make your way out of and i you know hopefully hopefully that because it is possible that she'll always i also just like then you get to the step zero of like you just got to remember to remember
Merlin: That's why one of those phrases that I believe in periodically saying to oneself is, like, remember your toolbox.
Merlin: Like, remember that you've – however strongly you feel about what's happening or isn't happening right now, remember you've got a toolbox for dealing with things.
Merlin: Remember your toolbox.
Merlin: You can almost – I mean, I don't know.
Merlin: It sounds silly, but I think it's useful to remember that, like, I'm –
Merlin: I'm the biggest, strongest feeling that I have right now is how anxious I am or how scared I am or how mad at myself I am or like how enraged I am.
Merlin: Cause now I can envision what'll happen when I miss this train or I miss this flight or like, and like you go spinning off in what, what one person I've heard call a chain worrying, which is a phrase that I find very beautiful.
Merlin: You go off chain worrying and like,
Merlin: I'm not saying go be perfect, but I am saying just remember your toolbox or remember your training or whatever.
Merlin: And I think it's useful to say it that way because then you say to yourself, oh, OK, I'm going to treat myself like an idiot.
Merlin: Hey, idiot, do you have a box?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: What's in the box, tools?
Merlin: OK, cool.
Merlin: What kind of tools you got in the box?
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I'm too freaked out to think about it.
Merlin: And it's like, oh, if you stop and you just kind of look around and you get your feet under a little bit, I'm still doing that.
Merlin: I'm still remembering that there's a toolbox that I've been iterating for almost 60 years.
John: Yeah.
John: Yeah, right.
John: Well, and I'm learning it all the time too.
John: The most recent one is being mad at something is just pouring your life energy on the ground.
John: And being mad at yourself is also just pouring it out on the ground.
Merlin: It's so hard not to sometimes.
Merlin: So hard not to.
John: What you do is you take whatever that anger and frustration there is and you turn it on itself.
John: It's got nothing to do with you.
John: Like, turn it into a diamond.
John: Like, turn that power into action.
John: I don't know.
John: You know, I'm still working it out.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: You got to keep workshopping it.
Merlin: We will keep doing this.
Merlin: We don't have advertisers, really.
Merlin: We don't have really anything anymore.
Merlin: But we're going to keep doing this show until we figure it out.
Merlin: And until you fucking people figure it out.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Don't you think?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I don't have a funny way to end it.
Merlin: All I had was this thing I wrote down here, which is something I think sometimes.
Merlin: I don't think I said this to my kid as part of some pedagogical death march, but it's not laws that protect you.
Merlin: It's people observing laws that protects you.
Merlin: Oh, that's good.
Merlin: And that's a bigger distinction than a lot of people.
Merlin: Because I feel like I actually have encountered people who are like, well, just cross the street.
Merlin: If they hit you with a car, sue them.
Merlin: I'm like, you know what?
Merlin: First of all, have you ever sued or been sued?
Merlin: It's not actually that fun.
Merlin: And B, I'd rather have my legs.
Merlin: I will go there.
Merlin: I would rather wait for a second and avoid something dumb than believe that I can litigate my way out of impatient behavior.
Right.
John: Right.
John: Well, I think that that's how we should end this program, but also I think we should end it on the fact that that picture you sent of me with your coat on your head is one of about 50 pictures you showed me where you look exactly like Kurt Cobain.
John: I don't know how you do it.
Merlin: It looks so much like Kurt Cobain and all those at this point I had I remember I was there I was here for noise pop 1997 and That's where I first saw death cab and I got in a cold while I was here So I was about to fly home.
Merlin: My friend Tony took that terrible photo of me And you were like San Francisco here.
Merlin: I come saying fantastic Um, so I just hit the bell
John: Yeah, just hit it.
Merlin: God, this really feels incomplete.
Merlin: Is there anything else?
Merlin: I know, I know, I know.
Merlin: We're usually better at this, but we've given a lot of advice this week.
Merlin: And then you're like, ding.
Merlin: Let me see what else I got here.
Merlin: The good one.
Merlin: Laws don't protect you.
John: I mean, we could keep talking.
John: We could talk about, you know, we could talk about the news.
Merlin: Oh, you want to do some headlines?
Merlin: What's going on with these geniuses in Congress?
Merlin: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Merlin: As long as you hit the bell, the show's over.
Merlin: That's the thing.
John: Yeah, that was it.