Ep. 583: "Disproportionate Event Horizon"
John: Hello?
John: Hi, John.
John: Hi, Merlin.
John: How's it going?
John: Oh, it's a sunny day here in Seattle.
John: Things are going just Jim Dandy.
Merlin: Feels like the first real day of summer vacation-wise, family-wise for me.
Merlin: Is that right?
Merlin: Everybody's out of school and it's just chilling times.
Merlin: No.
Merlin: Uh-oh.
Merlin: No, my kid's driven.
Merlin: It's terrible.
Merlin: I mean, like, so last week, did it feel like last week was the start for you?
Merlin: When did it feel like, because you've done this enough times now that, you know, there's a vibe in house, in family, in culture.
Merlin: And it's different, right?
Merlin: Because it used to be everybody got out of school on the same day, went back to school on the same day.
Merlin: Everything's different.
Merlin: People used to go to school all the time, and now they don't.
Merlin: It's confusing.
Merlin: Yeah, it is.
Merlin: It's very confusing.
Merlin: Do you know what I'm talking about?
Merlin: People don't do stuff like they used to.
Merlin: You used to have to do everything when I was a kid.
Merlin: There was only one way to do it most of the time.
John: Which is have to.
John: Yeah, you either did it or you had to do it, or you didn't do it.
John: It's my way or the highway, they used to say.
John: What did you do?
John: You were sweeping out a warehouse.
John: Jesus Christ, you're cutting trail before you know it, buddy.
John: I had a friend whose job was to sit at the end of a pee-packing plant with a high-pressure water hose, and any time he saw a rat, he'd just turn the water hose and spray the rat out the door.
Merlin: You had a friend who used to work at a pee-packing plant, and he worked at the end of the line where he had a high-pressure hose, and if he saw a rat, he'd nail it with the hose.
Merlin: Nail it with the hose.
John: How was I not aware that there were jobs like this available at one time?
John: The goal was just spray the rat, and it would slide across the concrete floor, sometimes hundreds of yards, and then just out the door.
John: And I think they figured, you know, now the rat's out.
John: It's out.
John: I bet it thinks it's fun, like a little bit.
John: I wouldn't be surprised.
Merlin: You know, rats are very resilient.
Merlin: And they like fun.
Merlin: They enjoy fun.
Merlin: They do enjoy fun.
Merlin: I keep meaning to tell you there's a new bird.
Merlin: New to me.
Merlin: Not a new bird.
Merlin: A new kind of bird.
Merlin: Well, I don't... Tell me about the bird.
Merlin: Well, I don't know.
Merlin: I don't want to take you out summers.
Merlin: Tell me about the bird.
Merlin: Have you ever heard of this New Zealand bird?
Merlin: Is it a kookaburra?
Merlin: Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree.
Merlin: I think that's racist.
Merlin: Kids don't sing songs.
Merlin: Like, that's another thing.
Merlin: Put a pin in that, John.
Merlin: People don't know songs.
Merlin: You don't have to sing in school anymore, so nobody knows all the racist songs we used to sing.
Merlin: The thing is, we only knew a few songs, and we all had to sing.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: We sang so many problematic songs when I was a kid.
Merlin: Jiminy Christmas.
Merlin: But even something like, well, I haven't thought about it, I haven't gotten over it in my head, but I take something like a, what is the official name of the song, My Darling Clementine?
Merlin: I don't know if that's the official name.
Merlin: Jimmy Crack Corn?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Jimmy Crack Corn.
Merlin: That's a different, okay, that too.
Merlin: Did you ever sing that in choir?
Merlin: Of course.
Merlin: Jimmy Crack Corn and I don't care.
John: I sing it every morning when I wake up.
John: Were you an Alto John?
John: I sing it in the shower.
Merlin: I was not.
Merlin: Because I think what he says is, does he actually say, Jimmy Crackhorn, I don't care because my master's gone away?
Merlin: Was that the line?
Merlin: That's right.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: What about the decamptown ladies?
Merlin: Decamptown ladies?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Five miles long.
Merlin: Remember when the guy says that in Blazing Saddles?
Yeah.
Merlin: The camp town ladies.
John: It's amazing we can watch Blazing Saddles.
Merlin: Well, a lot of people can't, and I understand that.
Merlin: Something I wrote down this morning is, because I write down things that I want to put in my project.
Merlin: I know you do.
Merlin: It helps to understand when somebody's talking about something.
Merlin: It's helpful to understand whether they're talking about people or ideas, because if you don't agree whether you're talking about people or ideas, people tend to get a little bit...
Merlin: People can get a little bit worked up about this.
John: Because you think you're talking about ideas and they think that you're talking about people.
John: Is that sometimes?
John: I mean, I just read it.
Merlin: It was very early.
Merlin: It was 745.
Merlin: But yes, I think so.
Merlin: Hit me crack corn.
Merlin: See, if you don't sing the last part, is it racist?
Merlin: What about turkey in the straw?
Merlin: Turkey in the hay?
Merlin: Anymore?
Merlin: I don't know.
John: I think that's a problematic ice cream song title.
John: Sometimes, sometimes I had a guy in the house the other day and he, and he said, you know, this space is big enough for a ping pong table.
John: And I said, we don't say that anymore.
John: Do you feel like he grew, his heart grew three sizes that day?
John: It did.
John: I think, you know, he looked around and he was like, is this a TV show?
John: Am I on camera?
John: They swing without paddles.
Merlin: They swing without hoodles.
Merlin: They sing without balls of the ping pongs and doodles.
Merlin: A new bird.
John: A new bird.
John: You saw a new bird.
John: You know what?
Merlin: This is not interesting.
John: Sorry.
Merlin: You discovered a bird.
Merlin: I should start preparing.
Merlin: Have you ever heard of this bird called a key?
Merlin: What?
Merlin: You're going to start preparing?
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I doubt it.
Merlin: Don't do that.
Merlin: It'll change the whole vibe.
Merlin: See, this is the problem.
Merlin: I feel obligated to say shit like that, even though I don't mean it.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: Who am I helping?
Merlin: Who am I helping, John?
Merlin: Answer.
Merlin: No one.
Merlin: I'm helping no one.
Merlin: No, that's not true.
John: Merlin, you're a content creator, and you should be proud.
John: I'm creative.
Merlin: I'm creative.
Merlin: Big spin.
Merlin: Big ask.
John: You know, if you look at the LGBTQ flag now, there's actually a stripe for content creators.
John: Did you think of that while you were marching on Saturday?
John: No, it just came to me now because I'm a content creator.
John: I was marching on Saturday, though.
John: Boy, what a day.
John: What a day.
Merlin: What a day.
John: Did you guys go marching?
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: I saw some super good... Well, first of all, almost all the songs were... Donnie comes marching home again.
John: Now, what about that?
John: I don't know.
John: Seems problematic.
Merlin: What about pack up your troubles in your old kit bag?
Merlin: I'm not a long way to Tipperary.
John: Oh, I'm not gonna sing that Tipperary.
Merlin: That's colonial Well, it's probably been a while since you've seen it and I know you've seen it But I'm having a big thing right now where I'm watching we'll come back to this Kia birds about kea Google kea and bird But I'm having a big thing where I'm watching that movie dust boot about the German So you're doing it over the course of many days
Merlin: No, I have a lot of problems, John.
Merlin: And sometimes I mention something and then that makes me want to, like a song.
Merlin: Like I get a song and I had a guy listen to a song.
Merlin: I was talking about Das Boot.
Merlin: I had to watch Das Boot.
Merlin: Then when I watched Das Boot, I was so excited about it, I bought the Blu-ray.
Merlin: And I bought the Blu-ray for Syracuse because I want him to watch it.
Merlin: The Blu-ray.
Merlin: MC Blowfish.
Merlin: There's one point in there where, you know, they're down in the U-boat.
Merlin: Now listen, here's the thing.
Merlin: All of you, you know I love you, but fuck off.
Merlin: The reason I say submarine
Merlin: It's because people will not know what a U-boat is.
Merlin: And if I say U-boat, here's the problem.
Merlin: You can't please everybody.
Merlin: Who are you?
Merlin: Fucking Winston Churchill?
Merlin: I think he's the one who said, we're doing this business in the North Atlantic.
Merlin: You never call it a submarine.
Merlin: It's only a U-boat.
Merlin: Those are the bad ones.
Merlin: They fucked shit up in the North Atlantic.
Merlin: I'm just here to tell you, being in Das Boot in 1941 was not a great place to be.
Merlin: there's one point though where things are still going relatively well and you know they have albums they have records you know probably 78s on the sub and uh he asked him to put on it's a long way to temporary and everybody starts singing along because it's a song everybody knows it's a song everybody knows it's about the great uh the great ireland which everybody knows the great ireland most people know about now that was problematic when i said ar-ta-tar-ta-tar i don't think that's one of the lyrics
Merlin: It's a long way to temporary.
John: The marvelous thing about the Irish is they have a wonderful sense of humor.
John: Although not about themselves, but they do about many things.
John: No, they do about themselves.
Merlin: That's funny.
Merlin: I was reading something the other day that one time an Irish person told a story that had an ending.
Merlin: Oh, burn.
Merlin: Are you kidding me?
Merlin: Sick burn.
Merlin: Oh, God.
Merlin: Our late landlord.
Merlin: Jesus Christ.
Merlin: You don't want to be on the property when he shows up.
Merlin: And then I moved from County Cork to Canada and became a Golden Gloves boxer.
Merlin: And then I invented the trash bag.
Merlin: And you're like, uh-huh.
John: Did you want to fix the hot water?
John: I showed Marla Goodwill hunting.
John: You guys go Goodwill hunting all the time.
John: She made that joke.
John: She made that joke.
John: Oh, fuck me.
John: I just made the same joke as a 14-year-old girl.
John: Yeah.
John: Fuck.
John: So we sat down and we watched it.
John: And of course, it's like all our old movies that we show our children where it's like, you're going to love this movie.
John: And then the first 40 minutes of the movie are just guys saying, fuck you.
John: No, fuck you.
John: Fuck you.
John: Back and forth.
Merlin: Or like, there's a movie I liked a lot from 1978 that if memory serves involves a passed out woman being wheeled to her father's house in a grocery cart and dropped off on the lawn.
Merlin: That's a nice movie.
John: That's a fun movie.
Merlin: Sensual versus sensuous.
Merlin: A lot of people still don't understand.
Merlin: Dean Warmer's wife understands.
John: Sure, sure.
John: I mean, what's wrong with being sexy?
John: I know that.
John: That's Mick Jagger, right?
John: There's so many movies where a big part of the plot hinges on a bunch of guys peering through a hole in the wall.
John: Yeah, there's too many holes in teen movies.
John: There's just a lot of holes to peer through.
John: But anyway, we're watching it and she's like, I like this movie, but I don't understand the point of it.
John: And I was like, well, movies didn't all used to have points.
Merlin: Slobs versus snobs, really, ultimately.
Merlin: Almost every 80s movie is slobs versus snobs.
Merlin: There it is.
Merlin: Slobs versus snobs.
Merlin: I think it started with Meatballs.
Merlin: I feel like Meatballs was the one.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: Maybe I'm just looking at this through kind of a little bit of a wet hot lens.
Merlin: But, you know, there's Up the Academy, which I loved because I was in military school when it came out.
John: All the John Cusack movies.
John: The John Cusack movies are all him being the poor kid against the rich kids.
Merlin: I feel like you might be right.
Merlin: Or he could also be a hired assassin in that one movie.
John: Right.
Merlin: And he's from the rich neighborhood there.
Merlin: But this is slobs versus nerds.
Merlin: Slobs versus nerds.
Merlin: Anyways.
John: I got the cruise control set at a 40, son.
John: Beep, beep.
John: Let's see.
John: I don't know, man.
John: I just want to get with your daughter tonight.
John: We've all watched every movie.
Merlin: I can't figure it all out tonight, sir.
Merlin: Everybody always remembers the manufactured soul line, but I love what he says right after.
Merlin: He's like, I can't figure it all out tonight, sir.
Merlin: I just want to hang with your daughter.
Merlin: Do you say that?
Merlin: Do you say that around the house?
Merlin: Oh man, what do I say?
Merlin: I do quote, I do quote say anything.
Merlin: I know you do.
Merlin: But no, you're right.
Merlin: I mean, and it's, I've learned over time that there's some movies that meant a lot to me, probably, you know, because I was young and it was very unusual.
Merlin: You were young.
Merlin: Caddyshack was a really weird movie.
Merlin: That was, but it's not for everybody.
John: It's not a good movie even, but it's a great movie.
John: That's the marvelous thing.
John: Because, you know, the last time I said some movie wasn't a great movie or a good movie on this program.
John: Oh, dear.
John: I got letters for weeks.
John: Oh, no.
John: What do you mean?
John: What do you mean?
John: And I forget even what it was.
John: Please don't.
John: No, you can't afford that.
John: What do you mean 1941 wasn't a good movie?
John: It had its moments.
John: It was very well shot.
John: It was nicely shot.
Merlin: Yeah, I saw that in the theater with my stepfather.
Merlin: I said this on the internet probably six months ago, because they covered it on a podcast I like.
Merlin: I saw 1941 in the theater with my mother and my stepfather.
Merlin: And I'm going to try and phrase this carefully, because I think it's important that I put this right.
Merlin: We all disliked and were confused by the movie, but for different reasons.
Merlin: My stepfather, I mean, that's kind of his stock in trade is being confused about things.
Merlin: Did you look up the Kia?
John: Oh, the Kia bird.
John: Here we go.
John: Kia, K-E-A.
John: K-E-A bird.
Merlin: And we probably don't have time to get super into it.
Merlin: Oh, my goodness.
Merlin: It's like a parrot, except it's also an eagle.
Merlin: It's like a parrot eagle.
Merlin: Doesn't it have an amazing bird face?
Merlin: I feel like that beak shouldn't be allowed.
Merlin: Oh, wait till you see what this beak does.
Merlin: Okay, here we go.
Merlin: Kia bird intelligence.
Merlin: They're not... They...
Merlin: They're really smart and they figure things out.
John: And they drive a car.
Merlin: Oh, look at how beautiful they are.
Merlin: Well, check out some videos because like the Corvids, they learn stuff and then other birds learn it from them.
Merlin: Now, wait a minute.
Merlin: This is a New Zealand bird.
Merlin: How do you even know about this bird?
Merlin: This bird is not coming to your bird camera.
Merlin: Remember that time you went to see a band from New Zealand that my family likes?
Merlin: Oh, yeah, that's a good band.
Merlin: That band, even at that performance, you might have seen them on the tour where they had, like, birds hanging.
Merlin: This is the Beths.
John: Oh, yeah, they had the birds, yeah.
Merlin: And they each have, so I guess in NZ, they have, like, you can vote for, like, your favorite bird of the year.
Merlin: They're very into birds there.
Merlin: I don't think they have...
Merlin: I think I want to say, Billy told me once, I think they don't have any native mammals there, but they got a butt ton of birds.
Merlin: Anyways, they, and you vote for it and you have your favorites.
Merlin: I've learned about the Kia because I also do enjoy New Zealand a lot.
Merlin: But like, if you just as I mean, I bring this to you because it might interest you.
Merlin: I'm going to say this directly to our listeners, because if you like the stuff about Corvid's,
Merlin: We do talk about corvids quite a bit.
Merlin: Crows and ravens, et cetera, that probably magpie maybe, I guess that's a corvid.
Merlin: Yeah, blue jays, no.
Merlin: But some of them are real smart and they can not only recognize faces, there's a story John told us a long time ago about somebody at UW who was observing these and they wore like a full head mask, kind of like that Minnesota killer guy.
Merlin: And they started recognizing the mask as well as the face.
Merlin: And then the birds tell each other about it, right?
Merlin: They play a little game of corvid telephone.
Merlin: Well, and I think it's a lot of telepathy.
John: Bird brain to bird brain.
John: Yeah, you know how trees communicate with each other through moss and fungus?
Merlin: I've heard about that and how they don't interfere with each other, with the branches.
John: If you want to know more, let me direct you to my mother and sister, who would be happy to talk to you about it forever.
Merlin: Is this like the cordyceps in the TV show, John?
Merlin: Is it like where you knock on one door and then a light goes off in West Germany?
Merlin: You know how the mushrooms talk to each other in that program?
Merlin: The trees do that?
Merlin: Is that what they do?
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Partly it's midichlorians, but partly it is— That is measurable on some level, correct?
John: It's spooky action at a distance also.
Merlin: Okay.
John: uh it's we're all turning in this one direction suddenly okay well what we like to talk about around here is the multiverse but we don't understand what we're saying that's a big part of it and um really you can apply that to anything the multiverse is all around us all the time and uh and also um that's why a you know a butterfly flaps its wings in china
John: And then here, gas prices go up.
John: But what I'm trying to tell you... I see.
John: And that's stochastic in nature.
John: Yes, that's exactly right.
Merlin: It's like a disproportionate event horizon.
John: It's a disproportionate event horizon.
John: You couldn't have put it better.
John: But around here, the crows, they know a lot.
John: They know a lot more than us.
John: Probably more than they let on.
John: They're watching us all the time, and they're running the banks.
John: And the media?
John: Do they run the media, John?
John: They run the media.
John: They do.
John: Crows run Hollywood.
John: Right now, this time in my forest here is the time when the teenage crows fledge, but they don't completely fledge.
John: They get out of the nest.
John: They fly probably 40 feet away from their parents, and then they just start whining and bitching and crying.
John: Basically, it's like having a second grader.
John: Yeah, and then they do it all summer long.
Merlin: Okay, and they're fledging.
Merlin: You're like, shut the fuck up!
Merlin: But they don't listen to me.
Merlin: Well, I want to just add these to our pantheon.
Merlin: I'm just going to give you a few facts.
Merlin: This is really best consumed via short YouTube videos, and there's a lot of them.
Merlin: Or long YouTube videos, but these birds are very smart, and they're very observant.
John: We're talking about the kybird.
Merlin: The Kia.
Merlin: Yeah, the Kia bird.
Merlin: Which is not the automobile.
Merlin: automobile see now that's another movie automobile it's another song we can't sing automobile automobile automobile money machine counterfeit money machine he was polite at the end of everything thank you thank you um uh here's the thing
Merlin: Remember Pit Pit Pat?
Merlin: I love you.
John: How could I forget?
John: Okay.
John: That was a show we all watched.
John: We all watched it.
John: And now nobody's even heard of it.
Merlin: I saw a headline a minute ago that sometimes I do that thing where I'm like, man, if you'd shown me this headline in X year, I'd be like, what?
Merlin: And it was that, what is it that Matthew Broderick and David Cross are going to be in like a play together?
Yeah.
Merlin: And I'm like, man, that would seem so weird to me when I was watching Mr. Show.
Merlin: Okay, here's the thing.
Merlin: Kias are smart.
Merlin: There's other things.
Merlin: And I'm just going to touch on a couple of these.
Merlin: I don't want to monopolize the show, but I would like to stimulate your interest in the Kia.
Merlin: They're really smart.
Merlin: But I want to put this carefully because I'm not an expert, but my understanding is they are...
Merlin: Two things that they can understand that a lot of us have trouble with, honestly, that a lot of people, Americans, have trouble with.
Merlin: Metaphysics?
Merlin: Patterns.
Merlin: Oh, patterns.
Merlin: They observe patterns, and they can even make estimates regarding probability.
John: So let's leave off the probability one but you can see one because this is one of the things that you and I who both have ADHD Although you're saying very different kinds now.
John: Yeah, we're also really same same 80s.
John: We grew up in yeah Yeah, we also can do those things we can see patterns and I'm
Merlin: This is a famous thing in cognitive science is that people are, at almost every level, terrible at estimating things, whether that's in mathematics or whether that's in probability.
Merlin: And there's all those kinds of – you can just do these really basic little tests with people.
Merlin: I've read this.
Merlin: I've learned it from a book.
Merlin: You can read in a book where people are like, is it more likely – what was one of those examples, which is like, is it more likely that this person –
Merlin: um is a terrorist or is it more likely that this person is a terrorist who's a muslim one of those dumb examples you're like well it's obviously the person is a terrorist and a muslim and you're like well actually it would be it's way more likely that somebody you know what i'm saying like that that doesn't you're using a heuristic to get at that that's not really good statistics wise um but they do stuff like figure out
Merlin: Like a thing that will seem familiar to you and will seem familiar to any German tourist in short pants who's trying to buy American food at the Embarcadero.
Merlin: They figure out patterns like, how can I make... Kia's know how to make people so angry and to pester them so much that they will give them food to go away.
Merlin: They've figured it out.
Merlin: But here's the thing.
Merlin: Those beaks...
Merlin: So, like, you know, you got that black, like, seal, like, around your windshield or at different parts on your car.
Merlin: You've got those black seals.
Merlin: They can, their beak, they will punch their beak, just walk up to a car, punch their beak around the windshield and just start ripping out.
Merlin: The seal.
Merlin: See, now, I would find that very irritating and inconvenient.
Merlin: Yeah, you'd want to give them food to go away, probably.
Merlin: I'd do whatever it took to get them to go away.
Merlin: But they do all kinds.
Merlin: Anyway, I wanted to put the Kia.
Merlin: Can I just say, I want to put this on your radar screen.
Merlin: If you decide to do further scholarship on this, I'd love to come back to the Kia and see how you feel like it fits alongside the Corvids.
Merlin: Okay.
Merlin: Agreed.
Merlin: But I'm a big fan of New Zealand, but like so many things, I don't know if I'd want this on my lawn.
Merlin: Like I enjoy having wildlife when I go and visit places, but you know, Pee Wee Herman used to feed the deer every day.
Merlin: We had a wild cat that I fell in love with in Hawaii, Mr. Business.
Merlin: I fell in love with him.
Merlin: I don't know if I'd want a wild cat all the time or if I want deer in my yard all the time.
Merlin: Do you think that you would like to go to New Zealand?
Merlin: Yeah, I mean, I went there once and had an incredible visit.
Merlin: I was very, very struck by the people and the place, New Zealand.
John: You know, we have a listener, a long-time listener.
John: Who lives in Australia, which is not New Zealand.
Merlin: They'd like you to mention that, I think.
Merlin: I think it's part of the whole culture there.
Merlin: We're watching a Tasmanian murder show right now.
Merlin: And I said to my wife yesterday, something I imagine I'll get letters about now.
Merlin: I said, I think Tasmania is kind of the New Zealand of New Zealand.
Merlin: Wow.
Merlin: You're going to get letters, I think, for sure.
Merlin: Because they get different stuff there.
Merlin: You know the animals evolve different down there?
Merlin: It's like it's a little Madagascar.
Merlin: Yeah, they have those devils that wear long basketball jerseys.
Merlin: Is that a fact?
Merlin: And that's something that's – is that a recent thing?
Merlin: Is that post-war?
Merlin: How did that happen?
John: I don't remember.
John: I think it might have something to do with the WB situation.
John: But anyway, our listener who lives down there, we have more than one listener because we get letters all the time whenever we mention Australia that you and I should both come down there and do a show for like 11 people in Sydney.
John: That would be awesome.
John: We can make a pay.
John: The president's open for us.
John: She's become an animal hospital type of... I'm not sure.
John: She seems like a wealthy girl because her apartment is always much nicer than you would think for somebody that just made a living like petting snakes.
John: Are you talking about that girl that works in the animal rescue?
John: Yeah, the animal rescue.
Merlin: Are you talking about Kelsey?
John: I'm not.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: Fuck you.
John: Are you really?
Merlin: You know, she's my favorite.
Merlin: Oh, my God.
Merlin: I think you might be on Blue Sky.
Merlin: I find it kind of confusing.
Merlin: I'm going to avoid that now because I don't want to talk about it.
Merlin: What I will say is, and I've told her before personally, privately, I don't want to blow up her spot, but she's my favorite person on Blue Sky.
Merlin: And I'll tell you why.
Merlin: First of all, her animal photos are fucking incredible.
John: And you like a lizard and you like a bird and you like some kind of wombat.
John: You like all those things, especially a sick wombat.
Merlin: She lost a little friend recently that she was trying really hard to save and she felt bad about it.
Merlin: But you know what else she is, John?
Merlin: She's fucking funny.
Merlin: She's fucking funny in a way that we used to find things funny on the internet.
Merlin: I can't believe you know her.
Merlin: It's a small world.
Merlin: Oh, well, it's not really because she's a fan of this show, which we're both on.
Merlin: Okay, she's never acknowledged that, so that's awkward.
Merlin: That's the thing.
John: Well, that makes me feel weird.
Merlin: Because one time I told her I mentioned her on a podcast and I sent her a link and now I feel like a dick.
John: No, no, no.
John: Because she says, I don't want people to think I'm hitting on them or something.
John: She says sometimes on the side, she's like, tell Merlin blah.
Merlin: And I'm like, this is, this is the, this is the woman with the nice apartment and the, and the husband.
Merlin: And, and she's got, she's got, Oh, and she's got the two sweet dogs that who sit on each other.
Merlin: Are you talking about the same person?
Merlin: I love this lady.
Merlin: How many animal rescue Kelsies are there in Australia?
Merlin: God damn it.
Merlin: I tried to bring this up with John fucking Syracuse.
Merlin: And he said, there's a lot of women in Australia.
Merlin: And I was like, you don't know that.
John: Yeah.
John: Nope.
John: Nope.
John: I'm afraid so.
John: And she thinks that I'm in the Tell Merlin business, which all of our listeners should know by now.
John: I'm not in the Tell Merlin business.
Merlin: I don't mind.
Merlin: Here's the problem.
Merlin: I don't know what people actually think of me.
Merlin: And candidly, I don't care mostly.
Merlin: But I think she needs to be...
Merlin: celebrate your star the problem is i don't want to bring creeps to her doorstep you know she has that problem a lot of creeps i can tell and that's why i don't want to talk about it but anyway god her animal shit it's just i she's my favorite person on blue sky and that's all i'm gonna say about that um it's hilarious although i'm often telling her you know all those things are gonna die so don't cry over something when you watch a movie little cat worm or whatever yeah they're all dead all the people in the movies
Merlin: you know my first favorite no first favorite second favorite one of my three favorite neil young albums is everybody knows this is nowhere um which i think more people should listen to probably a lot than realize it it's his second album it's from 1969 nice and it has a heavily a very noisy heavy heavily pixelated really cool photo on the cover of neil young if memory serves leaning on a tree and you remember there's a sweet little dog
Merlin: There's a little dog.
John: That dog is dead.
Merlin: That dog is so fucking dead.
Merlin: There's no way.
Merlin: And sometimes I try and do the math and I'll be like... That's an ex-dog.
Merlin: It's... Is he pining for the few words?
Merlin: Okay, now see my wife and I are really into these.
Merlin: They call it Scandi Noir.
Merlin: You should talk to Ari about this.
Merlin: Think about something like Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
Merlin: Or something like Broadchurch.
Merlin: We're watching Broadchurch.
Merlin: We're watching Entrapped.
Merlin: We just watched an amazing movie called Jar City, which is the most Icelandic shit you've ever seen in your life.
Merlin: If you like that stuff, Jar City, fucking great.
Merlin: Jar City.
Merlin: Jar City.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah.
Merlin: But you know, a lot of that stuff, it is happening in these sorts of places that have odd birds.
Merlin: We don't have the same kind of murders here.
Merlin: You look at the screen, you go, that's Broadchurch.
Merlin: You're telling me that there's a connection between murders and having odd birds?
Merlin: I don't know if I'm willing to go that far because I haven't watched enough of these.
Merlin: I know that Stellan Skarsgård is terrific in pretty much everything he's in.
Merlin: He's what I would refer to as an elevator.
Merlin: He elevates everything he's in.
Merlin: He's great in Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
Merlin: He's great in Andor.
Merlin: He's pretty good in in goodwill hunting.
Merlin: Oh shit.
Merlin: Is he the teacher?
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: Oh, he is you're right.
Merlin: Oh my god, and he's he what else is he great in?
Merlin: Oh, obviously great in breaking the waves if you like a lot if you can sit with a Lars von Trier I don't know if you want to watch that if you got to be careful with Lars von Trier He's got a lot of rules for how he makes movies um, but what were we talking about?
John: We were talking about... Before Kelsey.
John: Oh, no, the marches.
John: We were talking about, did you guys go out for the march on Saturday?
John: Yeah, we did.
John: We did.
John: Did you have a good time?
John: Did you enjoy it out there?
Merlin: Yeah, I mean, it's... No, no, no.
Merlin: Okay, first of all, yes.
Merlin: I'm glad that we did it.
Merlin: I'm glad that we... I did exactly what I intended to do, which is...
Merlin: It's not there to be the Merlin Man show.
Merlin: I'm there to be a body, for better or for worse.
Merlin: And, you know, really hoping for better.
Merlin: And we did that, and we walked a lot.
Merlin: But, you know, some of the signs... Okay, first of all, first of all, I became a connoisseur of batshit signs that actually don't make any sense.
Merlin: But the fucking orange man pussy hat stuff, it's just...
John: it's i mean it really after like two hours of standing in one place and looking at signs and the person next to me didn't really know how to play the tambourine oh no no he was a guy he was he was in his own time signature yeah this guy was like what do we want and everybody would shout something and then and then he would wait an extra beat so it was like what do we want you know science and then he would go
John: When do we want it?
John: Now.
Merlin: Okay, so that mitigates against it being much of a chant in the usual way.
John: He was killing it, and of course people are walking past him, right?
John: So he's only got one shot.
John: He shouldn't have missed his chance to blow.
John: And he doesn't understand how chants work, but somebody gave him a megaphone.
John: And it's like, hey, man, there's a chance.
John: We've been doing this for a long time.
Merlin: At any point, were you asked to show what democracy looks like?
Merlin: Did anybody ever ask you to do that?
Merlin: They did a lot.
Merlin: well yeah they did they well you know this and my response was i don't have i don't have a strong opinion about that no this is my response i didn't chant it i just said it kind of like in my head but i don't i don't have a i don't really have i understand you want to see what other people will do that i don't have a strong feeling about that did you ever go yeah everybody's gotta serve somebody
Merlin: Yeah, I did.
Merlin: I quoted Dylan the entire parade.
Merlin: I sang the entire fifth verse of Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll through a megaphone while I played the tambourine.
Merlin: And emptied the ashtrays on a whole other level.
John: I don't know how a crowd that is within, you know, like in those big concerts in Brazil where there's a million people and they have to time delay the different speaker stacks so that the people at the far back of the thing...
John: Because of the speed of sound.
John: Yeah, because they'd be getting the music at like, you know, half a second too late and it would be discombobulating.
Merlin: It's like seeing a band at Lakeland Civic Center.
Merlin: It's like there's what the band plays and what bounces off the back wall half a second later.
John: Yeah, right.
John: You're watching them on the screens and you're like, what is going on?
John: But in this case, we're marching in the street.
John: And just the people that are right around, you know, just audible to one another couldn't keep the chants in sync.
Merlin: Do you like a chant?
John: I don't care for a chant.
John: I'll half-heartedly kind of, yeah, join in the chant.
Merlin: I'll mouth along, but that's just not my circus, not my monkeys.
Merlin: I'm not a chanter.
Merlin: I know you don't watch TV, don't own a TV, but unfortunately, and my family fucking hates this, every time somebody starts chanting, whether it's on Parks and Recreation or whether it's at some kind of a... Do they chant a lot on Parks and Rec?
Merlin: There's one guy who keeps coming to the meetings and chanting.
Oh.
John: It's up.
Merlin: Yeah, there's that one guy with the beard also meeting remember he wants to be able to put his his dog's ashes into the time capsule I've never seen the show except for mayonnaise except for turnip Yeah, and then ham and mayonnaise anyways My problem is I always think of my favorite second favorite episode of the Simpsons where Homer is trying He's saying where's my burrito and he's banging on the counter
Merlin: Because everybody's chanting, you know, that'll plan for everybody.
Merlin: Wah, wah, wah.
Merlin: And then Homer goes, where's my burrito?
Merlin: And then it hits him in the head.
Merlin: Because that's all I hear when people chant is, where's my burrito?
Merlin: Because that's kind of what they sound like.
Merlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Merlin: But you went and that's good.
Merlin: You went and that's good.
Merlin: And did you guys carry signs?
Merlin: Well, we did.
Merlin: Was it the whole small council one?
John: No, no, no.
John: Marlo had a sign that said support trans youth.
John: Oh, nice.
John: That was like a sandwich board that she wore, you know, kind of as a, you know, like a sandwich board except long.
John: Did she make her own sign for that?
John: She made her own sign.
John: Hey, would you high five her for that?
John: I think that's a cool thing to do.
John: Oh, yeah.
John: She got a lot of high fives along the way.
John: And then Ariella made a sign that looked like a Washington State license plate.
John: It was a personalized license plate if it said, fuck Trump.
John: So it was F-A-T-R-M-P.
John: But it looked like a Washington State license plate.
John: And then I did, I think, you know, what you would do at a march like that, which is I wore American flag pants.
John: and a tie that looked like firework, and then a red hat with white lettering on it.
John: Did you have a jingle stick?
John: It said poetry.
Merlin: Did you bring a jingle stick?
Merlin: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Merlin: Sorry.
Merlin: I see a jingle stick in this.
Merlin: Please, once again, I stepped on you.
Merlin: Please tell me that last part again.
John: It's like a MAGA hat, a red baseball hat with white lettering, except instead of Make America Great Again, it just says poetry.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
John: And as I, when I came out, you know, my kid was waiting there for me to, you know, come in the car and I was like, well, you know, I didn't say ta-da, I just sort of walked out and she was like, what the hell is that?
John: And I was like, well, this is my parade outfit for today.
Merlin: Wearing my floppy patriotic clown shoes.
John: And she said, this is unacceptable.
John: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
John: And I said, just you wait, just you wait.
John: I bet you got plaudits.
John: So we got down there, and what she wasn't prepared for, I don't think anybody was prepared for, the number of American flags, the sheer number of American flags.
Merlin: I think the word went out.
Merlin: There was a lot of American flags.
Merlin: Some upside down, which I don't love.
Merlin: No, but, you know.
John: I know what you're going for, but that's not cool.
John: the upside down flags were very few up here there were a couple yes but most of the people were just like usa america were taking back the streets yes and so my that was the vibe for sure yeah my american flag pants were just like everywhere we went people were like yeah dude bro what's up high fives and my little kid was so mad
John: Because, of course, she was also getting a lot of praise, but nothing on the scale of the guy in the poetry hat.
John: Which, again, nobody could quite parse.
Merlin: But see, that's what I love.
Merlin: I mean, the signs that I particularly love were just like, hey, I have a strong point of view about something.
Merlin: And it doesn't fit neatly into any of the usual Orange Man Bat stuff.
John: No, that's right.
John: There were some great signs, maybe all time great signs.
John: It was one of my favorite things about it too.
John: Just like, look at this guy's sign.
John: One lady had a sign that was basically about the size, it was cardboard, but it was the size of a playing card.
John: And if you looked at it, it said, uh,
Merlin: little man little sign uh-huh uh-huh and i was like i like that i like your little sign and she was like thanks and then as i walked past like four other people were like oh my god your little sign so she was we were walking up so we're so this all you form up at um dolores park uh it was just it was just crazy how many people were there and then you kind of extremely select i think they said 50 000 people i would have guessed more but i'm bad at that but anyway however many it was estimates estimates you know what i mean they're hard estimates and
Merlin: And then we're walking up Dolores, I think, because we're on our way kind of walking toward the Vertigo building.
Merlin: By Vanderslice's old place.
Merlin: Right by there.
Merlin: Yeah, right there.
Merlin: And I just sent you a sign that I really liked.
Merlin: It said, I don't even like pussy, but I respect it.
Merlin: You know, that guy's got a lot of explaining to do throughout the course of the day.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: Because, like, you know, I don't need, like, you know, my sister-in-law, she's so fucking Rhode Island.
Merlin: I love her.
Merlin: She had a big sign that I think, I think this is, you know, a sign that other people have done.
Merlin: But it says something like, you know, hire a rapist and get fucked or something like that.
Merlin: It's like, that's what happens to you.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: You know, but all of the stuff like Orange Cheeto Man bad, you know, or like, you know, melt the ice.
Merlin: It's like, hi, okay, I get that.
Merlin: Crushed ice, crushed ice.
Merlin: Yeah, sure, sure.
Merlin: I only like them in my margarita.
Merlin: That's very funny.
Merlin: I see.
Merlin: Word jokes.
Merlin: Okay, fine.
Merlin: But there were some, and it was mainly homemade signs, people with like a piece of poster board or a piece of like a seltzer box.
Merlin: And they just...
Merlin: The most insane shit.
Merlin: And I loved it.
Merlin: I loved that.
Merlin: I'm glad we did it.
Merlin: I'm glad that we were a part of it.
Merlin: Okay, so positive things.
Merlin: I think that's important.
Merlin: I have positive things to say.
John: As I, as I was, as I was here that morning, you know, I was going through the like, Oh God, do I really want to, I really don't like seeing the American flag burned.
John: I really don't like.
John: Right.
John: Because it's about, it's about a lot of things ultimately.
Merlin: And like we can find for now common cause between all of these actually quite different issues that are ultimately kind of about, we don't like Donald Trump and what he does.
Merlin: But you know what I mean?
Merlin: It's like, there's no guarantee of common cause among some of those causes.
John: But what I was doing, I was sitting here in the morning and I was like, okay, any argument like, oh, I don't want to find parking, that we just, we're going to eliminate those arguments.
John: We're going to eliminate every argument.
John: And I just went down and I kept subjecting it to the, what do I want my daughter to learn?
John: Do I want her to learn that civic engagement happens downtown and we don't go because of something?
Merlin: Because there's anything?
Merlin: John, I super struggle with that.
Merlin: And I didn't say it to my family.
Merlin: But I knew enough to know that there's a lot of, I'll say it.
Merlin: There's a lot of attack vectors from a lot of shit in an event like this.
Merlin: And I had a weird vibe about it that I don't usually get about these things.
Merlin: I was especially worried about, like... You know, it's not an official parade here.
Merlin: Oh.
Merlin: So, like, there's no, like, fully, like, stopped traffic and rerouted traffic.
Merlin: And I was like, Jesus Christ, somebody coming off 101 and, like, really wanting to get into Hayes Valley could be really fucking pissed off and...
Merlin: Plow into people like the German way, you know the way they do it in Germany.
John: I do know Well, what happened here, you know for the ever since WTO the cops have Basically fucked up how they handled almost every street protest really and they they do something else that thing in the 90s Yeah, the WTO was the one that was a big that was a big deal big big big and you know Occupy Wall Street, right a long time.
John: Yeah
John: It was one of the first major, since the 60s, major civil disobedience moments, but we took over, WTO took over, I mean, the protest took over the whole city.
John: We shut the whole thing down.
John: And it was massive, but the cops went into, like, cop assault mode.
John: They, like, ran down people
John: Groups of people with horses.
John: They were like they they lost their minds and it was so bad that the that it ended up Unseated the mayor and the chief of police no shit Yeah, and then at every other at every opportunity because because sorry harm against regular peaceful protest happened on their watch
John: Yeah.
John: And you just get, you know, it was just like, it was such an embarrassment that they, that neither one of them could hold onto their jobs.
John: Wow.
John: But over the, over the seasons, you know, the cops here are no different than anywhere in America.
John: They, they buy all this military surplus shit.
John: They dress all in black.
John: They drive around the city.
John: Like there's some kind of Gestapo.
John: They treat every citizen like the citizen is doing a crime before they, you know, you walk up to a cop and you're like, excuse me, officer.
John: And they're like, how can I help you?
Merlin: Explain to me why you shouldn't be hassled.
Merlin: Essentially, right?
Merlin: Like, you citizen, tell me why I shouldn't hassle you.
John: And, and in this city, of course, being a, being a left coast city, there's been tremendous anti-cop pushback, which has also resulted in total shit.
John: You know, like people saying like, we're not, this is a cop free zone.
John: It's like, I don't think you want that frankly, because what you have now is fucking anarchy and that's not a good scene.
John: And you can't do community policing without police.
John: You know, there's all this problem, right?
John: And it's really derailed the city for two decades.
John: And this march started and I was like, please, no police riot.
John: Please, no police riot.
John: Please, no police riot.
John: And the entire march was really well organized by volunteers.
John: And the cops, they have a new police chief, and she seems to be a badass.
John: The cops were nowhere.
John: I know they were there.
John: I know they were one block away.
Merlin: They would be like sort of staged, really not too threateningly, but they weren't like all along the route or anything.
Merlin: We remarked on it, really.
John: I think the cops in liberal cities have all been on the phone with each other and they're like, wait a minute, what if we don't just drive tanks right up?
Merlin: Yeah, let's not draw a foul on this guy.
Merlin: There's no reason to make this dumber and more violent than it needs to be.
John: So there were a lot when we first started out, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm clocking everybody and I'm like, okay, you're here to riot.
John: You're here to riot.
John: You know, they're all young and they're all in there, like ready to fight clothes.
John: And they have that look in there.
John: I like, I'm going to start shit, you know, like, let me, give me a chance to break some windows.
Merlin: A lot of them are, I mean, and I saw a lot of people interviewed in L.A.
Merlin: with a similar thing.
Merlin: The word that kept coming to mind for me, the police might disagree, mischievous.
Merlin: People who are there to maybe cause a little mischief.
Merlin: They didn't want to necessarily hurt anybody, but they did want to see a little bit of action.
Merlin: Maybe just a little bit of bear spray, you know?
John: Yeah, and they wanted to set fire to a dumpster.
John: I mean, it never ends up, like, being...
John: like whatever the conservatives would say like the cities are burning but it's you know it's like i don't want to smell tear gas today and i don't want my daughter to ever smell tear gas or maybe it's her choice when she's 20 if she wants to smell tear gas there's lots of i'd rather you smell tear gas at home than out on the streets but here we go we're marching down the street there's 70 000 people in seattle it's massive it stretches for two miles this march
John: no cops and all of the young people who are like, let's break some windows.
John: There was nowhere to put that energy.
John: They're just looking around and it's like a bunch of moms in tennis shoes.
Merlin: Somehow got the vibe right and sustained the right vibe.
John: Super good vibe.
John: And I was looking around and I was like, this is it.
John: We are doing exactly it, which is we're taking to the streets.
John: We're peacefully protesting.
John: This is embarrassing to the people we want to embarrass.
John: Is gonna change things.
John: It's not toothless.
John: It's not disempowering.
John: It's incredible Everybody at this March feels better Which is what you want, right?
Merlin: Everybody came out of that March and they said I believe in America I believe in democracy and how could you go to that not feel in my in my case like, you know, we do San Francisco because of people like me moving here I think and a lot of other people of
Merlin: You've lived there for 30 years.
Merlin: 26, but yeah.
Merlin: But, you know, there's a lot fewer black people than there used to be.
Merlin: There's a lot fewer, like, old people than there used to be, etc.
Merlin: But, like, there were so many, like, older people at this and old people at this.
Merlin: I'm talking about, like, including people in wheelchairs.
Merlin: But there were, like, this was not all, this was not anti-fash, you know, fun.
Merlin: Like, it was, like, people who were like, this is fucking ridiculous.
Merlin: This is all ridiculous.
Merlin: I said on the train there, I said, you know, you guys, they think everything I say is stupid, but I said, you know, honestly, this sounds like a weird thing to say, but I have two things to say about this.
Merlin: One is, I really don't want to be deported.
Merlin: And, of course, you could say that as somebody.
Merlin: You look at me while sending a picture of me in my dad hat.
Merlin: But you could look at me and go, oh, that guy would never get deported.
Merlin: I said, well, that's why that's the second thing I want to say.
Merlin: The first thing I want to say is I really don't want to get deported.
Merlin: And the second one thing I want to say is and that's why we're here.
Merlin: Because it's not about – because, like, you think, how am I any different than Abrego Garcia?
Yeah.
Merlin: For now, how are any of us different?
Merlin: If you're deporting people, you know, this shit smells very 1936 to me.
Merlin: And I'm not going to invoke the painter, as we like to call him, but... Oh my God, look at this hat you're wearing.
Merlin: Yeah, and you can do it up on the sides a little bit like you're a safari man.
John: Look at the sign behind you.
John: No sign is big enough to list all of the reasons I'm here.
Merlin: Okay, so the thing is we're walking, and of course my family hates it.
Merlin: I wanted to get this picture of Mission Dolores because I wanted to make a joke about Vertigo.
Merlin: So look at that beautiful picture of Mission Dolores, the old one and the new one.
Merlin: But the thing I want to get at, bits have left the room.
Merlin: I was pretty concerned...
Merlin: Not necessarily for my safety.
Merlin: Not necessarily directly for my family's safety.
Merlin: But I just, you know, there'd been the thing that happened Saturday morning.
Merlin: And there is a lot of, like, cars running into crowds these days.
Merlin: And there's a lot of, like, people just shooting from a distance.
Merlin: And I always think of that Las Vegas thing that happened, you know, years ago.
Merlin: And it's like...
Merlin: There's a lot of people out there who are pretty upset right now, and I had kind of a bad mojo feeling.
Merlin: But honestly, I was so happy to see just the different kinds of people, right?
Merlin: Different people, including people like me, like old guys just, like, walking around.
Merlin: There were so many families there.
Merlin: There were so many little kids.
Merlin: Oh, my God, we helped a woman.
Merlin: A woman brought her, like...
Merlin: Oh, my God, this kid was so cute.
Merlin: Probably 18-month-old kid.
Merlin: And I don't know if you do this, but one of my duties in life, I don't think I've ever mentioned this, a thing that's very important to me is you always help a person who needs help on public transit or just getting places or in general.
Merlin: One of those is, like, I walked a lady off the bus and, like, helped her get to where her spot was.
Merlin: And this woman brought her, like, 18-month-old, and...
Merlin: Billy and I helped carry the stroller while Madeline walked the little girl down the steps and asked her how her day, and her mom was at the bottom going, okay, come on, here we go.
Merlin: We're going to go get on board.
Merlin: And, like, all that stuff just, it's, I don't know if it'll make a big difference, but as we're trying to make a difference, it's nice to see other faces out and about.
Merlin: People not just yelling at each other, you know, on their phones.
Merlin: And that's the, honestly, the old people.
Merlin: That's what made me happy.
John: I just feel like the solution is always model the world you want.
John: Okay, yes, yes, yes.
Merlin: You said, yes, I wanted to actually compliment you.
Merlin: I think that's, I think, for example, another thing I wrote down the other day, I don't agree with this, but I think it's true.
Merlin: Whether or not you like it, the world judges you by your shoes.
Merlin: Because your shoes tell the world who you think you are and who you think you want to be.
Merlin: And in the case of cops, cops are showing us who they are and who they want to be.
Merlin: And when we get to the point where they're covering up their badges and wearing masks all the time, when they've gone beyond the whole urban assault vehicle thing and are full on, you're just a fat man who's playing SWAT.
Merlin: I played SWAT when I was 10.
Merlin: Remember that song?
Merlin: How could I forget?
Merlin: I had an M16 and everything.
Merlin: That's why I'm a member of SWAT to this day.
John: To this day.
John: You're accredited.
John: I'm still a member of SWAT because of the plastic badge that I had at the time.
Merlin: A lot of people don't know.
Merlin: John joined up for the special weapons, but ended up staying for the tactics.
Merlin: Because it's both.
Merlin: A lot of people don't know that, John.
Merlin: It's special weapons and tactics.
Merlin: It's not SWAT.
Merlin: It's not special weapons or tactics.
Merlin: It's right there on the side of the black delivery van.
Merlin: I just wanted to say that and I'm throwing back to you, but you do you do tell the world things about who you want to be the cops have told us who they think they are and who they think they want to be and but also the resistance, you know, like yes, like if you are on modeling the world, you're on the internet and you're yelling at people then you're modeling a world in that you want where you want to be yelled at and you want to yell.
John: And if you're downtown with a bunch of old people marching in the streets with funny signs being, you know, irreverent and hopeful, then you're modeling a future that looks like that.
John: And I don't believe that America is headed to a violent revolution.
John: I don't believe that America is founded in principles that are intrinsically broken.
John: I think that we're doing a pretty good job here.
John: And right now things are fucked up and there are methods to bring things back to what we want, you know, that we have, we have those, we have those methods, we have those systems in place.
John: And what we need to do is recommit to them and use them the way they're intended to be used.
John: And a big March like this that I was apprehensive about going to where I never missed a March in my life.
John: I'm fucking March, but I, but I've got a team.
John: And as you say, these are, these are times where it feels like there are more kooks and more violence in the air.
Merlin: But also just not just when we say kooks, there's the real, like the people who are acting, planning and acting in very violent, antisocial ways.
Merlin: But there's plenty of people who are kooks, but like the kooks are loud sometimes.
Merlin: Loud kooks.
John: Lots of loud kooks.
Merlin: And that makes the United part of the United States make it seem like it's more frayed than it is.
Merlin: But the kooks are super kooky.
Merlin: But then there's just a lot of people who are like just wanting their kid to be able to grow up.
John: Well, yeah.
John: And that's the other thing.
John: I didn't want to go downtown and spend three hours in a situation where everyone was screaming and full of rage because that's not modeling the world that I want to live in.
John: And that was maybe the greater risk, much greater than being run over by some German.
John: Uh, the risk was that I was going to take my kid downtown and what she was going to say, what she was going to see is civilization is fraying.
John: And what she saw was not only is it not fraying,
John: civilization is all around us all the time and everybody nobody had to be here everybody wanted to be here and they're conducting themselves in a way that they understand other people want to be there too and a lot of them are wearing flag pants and hats that say like hard to parse things and you know it was like it was like in a lot of ways like the old days where there was fun
Merlin: in resistance and not just rage there was the power of mockery which is which is one of our great powers like the big puppets and like all of the like the theatrical component of making um i don't know i don't know if this is a situationist pov but like creating a spectacle yeah what i mean yeah
John: And then you contrast it against the pictures of the ding-a-ling sitting on his dais in the rain or in the clouds with this hilarious parade.
John: And it's just like, there you go.
John: There you go.
John: All I ever ask for is that day, that moment.
John: That's a split screen I'm happy to participate in.
John: And it disempowers him.
John: It disempowers him more than any violence could.
John: It disempowers him more than any burning buildings or screaming on the internet.
John: Like it took, it cut him off at the knees in a way he can't recover from.
Merlin: and that's peaceful resistance that's all the principles it's just it's just another piece like you said i like your modeling way of putting this which is like well you know these might these might be really small little lego bricks but those do accumulate but i'm going to be picky about the lego bricks i introduce into this set and i feel like these are positive things yeah we see a lot of people who think that in order to get to the utopia we imagine we have to go through a period where the streets run with blood
John: Accelerationists.
Merlin: Yeah.
John: Yeah.
John: And I keep saying no you get to where you want to be by living that way now And that's good the streets don't have to run with blood in between that's not the way we get to a peaceful society, right?
John: There is no Necessity that the streets run with blood or that the Patriots blood is spilled.
John: I mean all of that is pre-modern and That's not the you know, that's not the world.
John: That's not the future
John: But boy, you sure don't get that from reading comments on even Blue Sky, which should be a nice place.
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: I don't know if it's just me showing up that makes everybody turn into ding-a-lings.
Merlin: But I keep thinking I found a new safe harbor to be away from people who are just publicly angry all the time.
Merlin: And I'm often disappointed by that.
Merlin: I think more people should post photos of wombats and stuff like that.
John: You post so much stuff.
John: You don't know.
Merlin: Are you actually on that site?
Merlin: Are you looking at that site, John?
John: Because you're just like, look at this.
John: I saw this.
John: Look at this.
John: It's classic Merlin.
John: You're like, here's fun stuff.
John: Here's fun stuff.
Merlin: Did you notice I try to be positive?
John: You do.
Merlin: You're like, here's fun stuff.
Merlin: Here's some more fun stuff.
Merlin: I'm trying to bring stuff into the world.
Merlin: I'm trying to manifest, John.
Merlin: I want to manifest good things.
Merlin: I want to say, hey, here's this song.
Merlin: You should go listen.
Merlin: You know that band Wire?
Merlin: You should go listen to Wire.
Merlin: Because, like I said to Alex on Wednesday, the bands you should have liked liked this band.
Merlin: instead of the bands you did like in the night instead of the bands you did like this is why you should be listening to minor threat in the minute i mean one of the great things sad boys in the world is that you you you do that thing where you're like i'm revisiting this i liked it absolutely i do i'm a re-watcher too you and then you then you comment on it not like
John: This is what this is.
Merlin: John, it's just not all connected, but it is related.
Merlin: Did you watch Department Q on Netflix?
John: What you do is you comment on your re-watching.
John: You say, I don't just like this.
John: Now I'm seeing more.
John: I'm seeing different stuff.
John: Chernobyl continues to reveal itself to me.
Merlin: It's a great show.
Merlin: And it's got Akram from Department Q with little baby Barry Keough.
Merlin: Who knew?
Merlin: The guy who's like there, you might want to watch Department Q. It's not good, but it's good.
Merlin: It's one of those upper mid kind of shows, but it's pretty good.
Merlin: Mainly, though, it's got Matthew Goode.
Merlin: He's in that movie with Blue Penis Man.
Merlin: He plays Ozymandias.
Merlin: Matthew Goode.
Merlin: Oh, he's also the kind of slightly mean guy in the Alan Turing movie.
Merlin: Matthew Goode.
Merlin: He's very talented.
Merlin: You know what I'm talking about?
Merlin: Matthew Goode with an E?
Merlin: Mm-mm.
Merlin: No, not at all, but I believe in you and I believe in the content you create.
Merlin: Here's the thing.
Merlin: You keep bringing it back and you keep noticing ways that things are related.
Merlin: You notice orthogonal things that don't exist except in the relationship to each other.
Merlin: Hi, welcome to the liberal arts.
Merlin: You blew it off.
Merlin: Fucking idiots.
John: I had kind of a contentious conversation with somebody the other day who was trying to nail me to the carpet.
John: And they said, you talk about podcasts all the time, but you've never listened to a podcast in your life.
John: And they were responding to some, not comment, but like long Instagram post where I was talking about shoegaze or something.
John: And this person's known me for a long time, and they said, I've known you for 30 years, and I've never seen you buy an album.
John: The last album I saw you buy was in 1998.
John: And I was like, that's right.
Merlin: It was yours.
John: That's right.
John: I was trying to be the first sale.
John: Hello.
John: Hello.
John: John, why are you holding your finger under your nose?
John: You already have a mustache.
John: Hello.
Hello.
John: What this person was trying to do was they were trying to discredit somehow my commentary because I wasn't participating in the culture the way they do.
Merlin: I wasn't... Oh, dude, ideas and people.
Merlin: Yes.
Merlin: There it is.
Merlin: No, no.
Merlin: I'm not saying it's the same thing, but that's kind of what I meant, right?
Merlin: Like right there where you're like...
Merlin: And it's like me.
Merlin: It's like on the internet where everybody's a little bit Rain Man.
Merlin: And I'm like, I've stopped saying stuff like this is the best Wire song where I'll say, oh, this is my favorite Wire song on Chairs Missing because you're not allowed to argue as much with that because then people go like, yeah, but were you aware of this?
Merlin: And it's like, okay, can't we just enjoy things without having it turn into an unnecessary contest that no one wins?
John: But somehow me not listening to podcasts in this person's sense of the world, as somebody who does listen to podcasts, they're like, how can you say anything about, how do you know anything about podcasts?
John: Because you don't listen to them.
John: So I discredit you as any kind, I'm not even claiming to be an authority, clearly I'm not, but discredit you as having any opinion about it.
John: Mic drop.
John: Because I'm... Can't respond to that, John.
John: Can't respond to it.
John: Where I'm standing, looking at you, I don't see you consuming them in a way that would mean that you could speak about them.
John: And the same with music.
John: I don't see your house have a stereo.
John: You're not a fan.
John: It is a good enough stereo that you can make a long post about shoegaze music.
John: I'm like, there's a lot you don't see.
John: Yeah, exactly.
Merlin: You've come up with this idea of me based on your reckons, and maybe that's not exactly what's going on.
John: Well, right, and you've known me for 30 years, and you know that I have strong feelings about things, and I don't know, do they seem wrong to you?
John: That's a different thing.
Merlin: Yeah, but it's almost like you're not allowed to have, you know, I've already discredited you because of my reckons about you, and I don't think you're really qualified to have an opinion, let alone share it, because I think, and now I'm repeating what you said, because you have not engaged in the same way that I have, and therefore the way that you've interacted with this is a problem for me.
John: But it's the classic thing, and you've been in this a million times, where you're talking about books.
John: Not everything is everything.
John: But they're one-upping each other in a conversation about books, but they're not addressing the ideas that are in the books.
John: No, they're not talking about reading.
John: John, they're not talking about reading.
John: They're talking about books.
John: What this person was doing was not addressing the ideas in my essay.
John: Not saying, I think your essay is wrong.
John: But saying, I think it's wrong that you think that you can write an essay.
John: Touche.
John: I was like, do you disagree with the essay?
John: Was there anything you disagree with?
John: Or is it just that you don't think I have the credibility to write it?
Merlin: Yeah.
Merlin: They have their own argument about this that's completely fruitless and uninteresting.
John: But so that's the internet for me now.
John: It's just like, look, man, I'm gonna put some stuff out there and I don't disagree with it because of who I am, right?
John: I mean, like read the label.
John: But then again, I think about the internet and oh my God, yesterday I was at a party and somebody sidled up to me and they were like, have you thought about writing a parenting book?
John: And I said, are you fucking with me?
John: And they were like, I'm telling you, man, being dad on fatherhood.
John: Oh boy.
John: Oh.
John: And I was like, I mean, he said, because I see the angle.
Merlin: I see the angle.
John: He said, I've heard you say a hundred things that have helped me be a better dad.
John: And I was like, whoa, thank you.
John: And he said, and all of it is not a hundred percent unrelated to the fucking can opener story.
John: and i'm like okay okay okay go back to the buffet leave me alone but then all night long i'm laying in bed and i'm like hmm what would the cover art look like what would it look like in an airport how much would i get a lot yeah but like but i don't know i don't know i do have a lot to say about fatherhood i think that's a good project i think roderick on the line is you and me talking about fatherhood half the time
John: Hmm, probably.
John: Could be.
John: No, no, no.
John: Maybe one eighth of the time.
Merlin: Well, I mean, it does.
Merlin: It does.
Merlin: Yeah, I mean, I could definitely I see what you're saying.
Merlin: And I don't I don't disagree at all.
Merlin: But like, it's part of the larger discourse about figuring out how you could benefit from being different than how you are in life.
Merlin: I feel like I mean, we've never talked about that.
Merlin: But like, if I had to like, try to like fold it up into what issues I mean, that's a big part of it is like you think you think you know how to be in life until you are in life.
Merlin: And then once you are in life, you realize that the way you thought you should be in life is a little bit silly and probably under informed.
Merlin: Mmm if you're good and you realize that or you double down on what you think you knew Yeah, even in the face of things that you could just spend the rest of your life morning things that used to make you seem relevant and that's not a That is not an emotionally profitable way to age No So
Merlin: Oh, jeez, I don't know.
John: No, I feel bad.
John: There's a lot to not know.
John: Why do you feel bad?
John: I don't know.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I don't know.
Merlin: I feel like I'm tooting my own horn or something.
Merlin: Did you get the picture of the Kia tearing up the car?
John: You're so afraid of tooting your own horn, but your horn needs tooting.
John: Well, if I don't do it, who will?
Merlin: Who will, John?
John: Tooty, tooty, toot, toot, toot.
John: I toot your horn all the time, but people are like, well, tell Merlin this.
Merlin: Toot my horn to Kelsey and tell her I'm not trying to be a creep.
John: No, I'm back in the behind the scenes, back behind the curtain.
John: You're reading the letters.
John: You're collecting the input.
John: Going like this.
Merlin: And the horn says Merlin on the side.
Merlin: I don't know if you meant to, but I definitely see you doing that as Bob Odenkirk in 1997.
Merlin: Like doing a little golf course dance.
Merlin: Change for a dollar.
Merlin: British people.
Merlin: Only British people can fly.
Merlin: Kiss the pan.
Merlin: The pan kisses you.
Merlin: Fuck me.
Merlin: Blew that at the end.