Ep. 590: "Want Other Things"
Merlin:
Hello?
Merlin:
Hi John!
Merlin:
It's a kind of magic.
Merlin:
It is a kind of magic.
Merlin:
It's a kind of magic.
Merlin:
She keeps the moon shining in her pretty cabinet.
Merlin:
The 18 Hottest Tracks by Queen, available on LP, cassette, or 8-track.
John:
I just decided I was going to wear my headphones the other way.
John:
Left on right, right on left.
John:
See how it goes.
John:
I think that's very progressive of you.
John:
Yeah, yeah.
John:
You know, I think outside not only the box.
John:
No, sometimes you can't handle C-boxes.
Merlin:
Ah!
Merlin:
Ah, it's going to be one of those episodes, is it?
Merlin:
Oh, is it?
Merlin:
I'm still adjusting my volume and getting my pre-PC mix right, but... Yeah, sure.
John:
You know, what I always like to think about is the possibility that this episode... First episode.
John:
First one.
John:
Very first episode.
John:
Welcome.
John:
That somebody's ever going to hear, right?
John:
Like, somebody's like...
John:
Listen, I've been talking to you for two years about Roddick on the Line, but you've got to just... It's my birthday.
John:
You've got to listen to it.
John:
Please just listen to this episode, and then this is what they get.
Merlin:
Welcome and bienvenue.
Merlin:
Welcome.
Merlin:
Roddick on the Line.
Merlin:
Roddick on the Line.
Merlin:
Roddick on the Line.
Merlin:
Oh, I got mucus issues.
Merlin:
I was out of seltzer.
Merlin:
I ate a coffee cake and the top of a second coffee cake.
Merlin:
I made a Keurig coffee and I finally got a seltzer.
Merlin:
I started a new page in my notebook.
Merlin:
Did I mention the mucus?
Merlin:
How's your morning so far?
John:
You've been up since what?
John:
Five, six?
John:
Three, four?
John:
You know, I've been awake a little bit longer.
John:
Uh-huh.
John:
You know, I have a... See, a couple of days ago was my mom's 91st birthday.
John:
Weird flex.
John:
And she...
John:
She gets a lot of her activity time here working in the ravine.
John:
She really has bonded with the ravine.
John:
She enjoys it a lot.
John:
She comes over.
John:
She likes to start at five in the morning because it's before it gets hot, you know, and it never gets hot here, but it's before it gets above 70, right?
Yeah.
John:
And so she's here and it's, you know, usually she's here and I'm asleep.
John:
It's a crack of dawn and she's out in the ravine puttering around.
John:
But what...
John:
is also true is that you know the hoses that she keeps coiled up the uh there's tools and so forth that are all kind of stored really close to my bedroom window and so sometimes i wake up to rustling
Merlin:
Those are all tools that are going to generate a little bit of noise.
Merlin:
A little noise.
Merlin:
It's going to sound like somebody in a radio comedy in the 30s.
Merlin:
Like a Fever McGee and Molly type situation.
Merlin:
A little bit of that.
John:
Nobody's fallen down the stairs with 15 raspberry pies.
John:
But what they are, what has happened is some rustling.
John:
Well, as you know, as listeners of our show know, I sleep with one eye open.
John:
Always a little bit of vigilance.
John:
You never know when there's going to be a possum in your wall.
Merlin:
I can't decide whether to laugh more about the image of you squinting, sort of like Basil Fawlty, squinting one eye open, or Metallica standing next to you playing a song while you're doing it.
John:
And so we have this kind of...
John:
I think she thinks she's being plenty quiet and she doesn't realize that I, there is no quiet.
John:
That's enough quiet.
John:
I mean, you can get into my house and steal, uh, my silver bars, but only if I think there's a possum in the wall, it's that's more of a deception, right?
John:
Yeah.
John:
And so I wake up to the sound of rustling and I'm, and I go, she's 91 and
John:
If you say something, if you say, hey, you know, mom, when you're outside, I can hear you when you're under my window doing stuff.
John:
Then she's going to overcompensate by tiptoeing or by, you know, oh, I can't go over there.
Merlin:
For example.
Merlin:
I mean, it seems like that would be an option.
Merlin:
You could say, hey, mom, could you maybe not do that until like 10?
John:
But, you know, but the other part of me is just like, there's a part of this.
John:
I know.
Merlin:
This is why I don't criticize my kid about the messes that he makes making food because he's really good at making food.
Merlin:
And I'd rather pick up that slack than, you know, like have to get him into some kind of occupational health program to learn how to make cheese sandwiches.
Merlin:
To make cheese sandwiches.
John:
Yeah.
Merlin:
You're happy that your mom's 91 and alive and bless her heart is out there banging around under your window.
Merlin:
You got to be careful what you got to be careful what you reward in life.
Merlin:
Let me start over.
Merlin:
Hello.
Merlin:
Hello.
Merlin:
It's something very early.
Merlin:
It's become my belief that if you want to change the culture and where you are, you have to change what you reward and change what you tolerate.
Merlin:
And if there are things that should stay the same or whatever, then, well, you've got to learn to tolerate them better.
Merlin:
You know?
Merlin:
So you don't want to cause a whole, like, revolution or upset your mom or, God forbid, like the last conversation you had with your mom is yelling about a hose.
John:
it's it's a uh you know the the old story of the guy that in france who bought the house from the old lady and he was like you can keep living in the house uh and then she lived for 40 more years uh-huh and have you ever heard that story he like yeah he bought a house for i see oh but the idea is aha ha ha not accounted for how long you would live yeah so then he you know he bought this house when he was 40 thinking like oh she'll live a few more years oh being nice to the old lady hey you can live out your final days here
John:
Exactly.
John:
Then he's 80 years old and he still has never moved into this house that he's been paying for the whole time.
John:
He needs to find another sucker to do it for him.
John:
And, you know, my mom, she said to me the other day, she's like, I want to live to be 100 so that, and she listed all these things that she wanted to live to 100 in order to do.
John:
And so for me then laying in bed with the rustling, I'm like, well, now if you're going to live to be 100, I can't have nine more years of this rustling.
Merlin:
That's so – oh, my God.
Merlin:
Okay.
Merlin:
At first, I misunderstood where you were going.
Merlin:
And now I absolutely understand.
Merlin:
Yes.
Merlin:
Because – or maybe to think of it as a slightly different way, you can think of it in almost an ethical or moral sense, too, of like, what are you willing to look past and for how long –
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Daenerys is like, hey, I'm the breaker of chains.
Merlin:
They're like, yeah, yeah, but over here, Maureen, we're having problems over there.
Merlin:
Just give them a few more years of having slaves, and then we won't have slaves anymore.
Merlin:
Do you remember this plot point?
Merlin:
It feels like very post-Civil War in some ways, where there's all these bargains being made.
Merlin:
Well, you know what I mean, though?
Merlin:
Because I remember at a point, I was just listening to a podcast this morning about this.
Merlin:
Lincoln was talking about basically reparations to Southern whites.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
At one point.
Merlin:
Remember talking about giving them money back for all the slaves that they lost?
Merlin:
Sometimes you've got to make a deal you don't want to make to get over a particularly rough patch, but you don't want to do it for an entire adult's life, is my thought.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
Yes.
Merlin:
I'm sorry if I derailed your story.
Merlin:
I was hoping you'd find that a thrilling introduction to a much broader palette from which you could draw rather than you just being mad at your mom about a hose.
John:
what i what i am curious about is how many podcasts have you listened to already today um i how many do you want to do that now or should i put a hit pin in that no no no no that's that's uh that's the pivot uh i'm just curious when you say i heard this already in a podcast that i listen to one of my stories yeah can i get just a tiny yes can i give a tiny bit of context
Merlin:
Oh, yeah, sure, sure.
Merlin:
So I woke up.
Merlin:
One thing is that I deleted a lot of podcasts, not because I'm mad, but just because I kept getting, on the one hand, I kept getting a lot of podcasts that I didn't ever listen to, even though I still subscribed.
John:
You were downloading them.
Merlin:
On the download, they call it in the community.
Merlin:
They call it on the download.
Merlin:
Word.
Merlin:
But then like just last week, I went in and deleted all the episodes inside of the podcast to start off fresh.
Merlin:
And I was thrilled to see a new episode of one of my favorite programs.
Merlin:
I might have mentioned it last week in the context of your history bragging.
Merlin:
I love a show called The Rest is History.
Merlin:
And they just started a series on the assassination of Lincoln.
Merlin:
I just started listening to that episode this morning.
Merlin:
The previous one on Mary Queen of Scots and Queen Elizabeth I, very good also.
Merlin:
Anyway, he probably competes directly with your boyfriend, Dan Harmon.
John:
When you delete podcasts, let me ask you this.
John:
Do people download podcasts that they're never going to listen to, but they put them in their queue because they want to give that podcast...
John:
ratings or something?
John:
Are people gaming?
John:
I know probably big labels are gaming downloads right now where it's just like, oh, Warner Brothers just has bots on a boat somewhere that are just constantly downloading or playing or streaming their songs.
Merlin:
Unless you're part of or running an organized attempt to commit some kind of click fraud, I doubt it.
Merlin:
It would be a little bit psycho to go and subscribe to a podcast you have no intention of listening to just because, you know, you see you don't like it, but you subscribe to it.
Merlin:
That would be weird.
Merlin:
That's a good question, though.
Merlin:
Sort of like clicking your own links kind of thing, right?
Merlin:
Well, so just recently— Remember the Bible says not to click your own links.
John:
Well, I mean, don't wear your own T-shirt to your show.
John:
Don't be that guy.
John:
Unless you're Iggy Pop.
Merlin:
If you're Iggy Pop, you can.
Merlin:
He takes his shirt off.
Merlin:
But also, that's called click fraud in the Old Testament.
John:
But just recently, I mean, I'm talking about in the last couple of months, because Instagram's constantly throwing up, like, don't you want to add music?
John:
You know, adding music increases engagement.
John:
Adding music, adding music.
John:
And I was always on there like, okay, I guess I'll...
John:
i'll put in like bad to the bone or something what do you what and then one day i was like wait a minute i have i have music and i've started to put long winter's music on all of my posts oh no okay and thinking i don't understand what you people are doing i really well you know here we go like now you're going to see a picture that i'm posting of of a car that i saw that it was interesting but it's going to have blue diamonds playing in the background
Merlin:
Hey, you know what?
Merlin:
Stop doing that.
Merlin:
If you're going to play music, just have it be anybody else's.
Merlin:
It bums me out to know that these songs I really like are being used.
Merlin:
Don't do that.
Merlin:
No, you're hurting the fans, John.
Merlin:
I'm hurting the fans.
Merlin:
You're hurting.
Merlin:
You're hurting the, what do you call them?
Merlin:
The Roderick Army.
Merlin:
The longest winner.
Merlin:
The little winners.
John:
Yeah, the little winners.
John:
Explain that now.
John:
I'm very curious to know how that is.
John:
Is it like wearing a t-shirt to your own show?
John:
Oh, I don't know anything about that.
Merlin:
I mean, to...
Merlin:
Never mind.
Merlin:
I'm going to leave it at that.
Merlin:
I'm going to leave it at that and say, yeah, I'll need to get off these services.
Merlin:
Oh, yeah, get off the services.
Merlin:
I mean, I agree with that.
Merlin:
Yeah, you think that Instagram's making you happy, buddy?
Merlin:
Is that making you happy?
Merlin:
It's not.
Merlin:
It's not making you happy.
Merlin:
Get off that thing.
Merlin:
You also have to be careful about these... That's the only podcast I listen to.
Merlin:
I listened to it a little bit this morning.
Merlin:
What do I have to be careful of?
Merlin:
You were about to tell me I had to be careful of something.
Merlin:
Oh, I don't know.
Merlin:
I mean...
Merlin:
I don't know.
Merlin:
I need a list of things to be careful of.
Merlin:
Oh, okay, I can do that.
Merlin:
Well, as long as we keep it jokey.
Merlin:
I'm just trying to say y'all need to get off these Instagram-type services.
Merlin:
I don't think it's making any of you happy.
Merlin:
I can hear you all being sad.
Merlin:
But also, the music's too good.
Merlin:
Don't hurt the little winners.
Merlin:
Little winners.
Merlin:
But it's my music.
Merlin:
It's my picture.
Merlin:
That's true.
Merlin:
What the hell?
Merlin:
I'm in no place to be out here saying this to you.
Merlin:
We had a larger point, though.
Merlin:
Where were we on?
Merlin:
There was Instagram.
Merlin:
There was your mom.
John:
There wasn't a larger point.
Merlin:
This is the biggest point we've had on the show.
Merlin:
You're a sad tomato today.
Merlin:
You're a sour little man.
Merlin:
Oh, no.
Merlin:
No.
Merlin:
My mom's 90, and I don't put up with anything.
Merlin:
I won't do it.
Merlin:
I won't put up with it.
Merlin:
I'll tell her, Mom, I'm not going to put up with that.
Merlin:
I always worry that, like, today, my family has stopped saying hello and goodbye, which I hate.
Merlin:
Because I come from a hello and goodbye family.
Merlin:
I come from a family.
Merlin:
We say hello, like, after we've already seen each other, we keep saying hello.
Merlin:
Sure.
Merlin:
Yes, ma'am.
Merlin:
No, ma'am.
Merlin:
America's roast beef.
Merlin:
Yes, sir.
Merlin:
I come from a hello and goodbye family.
Merlin:
But I always do, like, today, I go, like, okay, have a good day.
Merlin:
I love you.
Merlin:
Have a good day.
John:
And nobody says anything back?
John:
No, that was him the second time going.
Merlin:
He's a man in a small box.
Merlin:
Where are you going?
Merlin:
I have no idea.
Merlin:
How does he do that?
Merlin:
Where are you going?
Merlin:
I don't even know what part of my throat to put it in.
Merlin:
Just so y'all know, I'm trying to impersonate Rob Brydon, the small man in a box.
Merlin:
So, but I always worry.
Merlin:
What if that was the... What if me saying, oh, nice hat, do they make it for men?
Merlin:
What if me saying something horrible to somebody is the last thing I ever said to them?
Merlin:
Whilst I do not participate in a lot of the...
Merlin:
The weird mojo and superstitions of modern stupid adult life in America.
Merlin:
I do sometimes think things like that.
Merlin:
I think, oh, I would feel so bad if that was the last thing I ever said to them.
Merlin:
You know?
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
When I left Alaska, I went in to say goodbye to my dad.
John:
And this was in...
John:
This was in the unfathomable old times when I was Lee I was leaving for good.
Merlin:
I was 17 I bought a $99 plane ticket to Seattle and this was it I was leaving home did it must have seriously though it must have I mean it was all the back and forth and the whatnot it still must have felt kind of momentous
Merlin:
Well, sure.
Merlin:
I'm leaving home.
Merlin:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
Merlin:
But I mean, sometimes you feel bigger than others.
Merlin:
Like there's the time, you know, like the last time you slam that door and you're like, oh, shit.
Merlin:
Like this.
Merlin:
I just I've already I've already started down this next path.
Merlin:
And, you know, not in a way that I can go back.
Merlin:
That's what I'm saying.
John:
This is that moment.
John:
and uh and my dad instead of taking me to the airport or doing whatever i would do now i would i would take her to wherever it was she was going i don't know what i i can't even imagine he's laying in bed reading a book with his glasses down and i walked into his bedroom and i was like well this is it i'm leaving and he said all right well give him hell and i i looked at him and i was like i said to myself
John:
This may be the last time I ever see him.
John:
He's an old man.
John:
I'm leaving.
John:
I'm going.
John:
Absolutely.
John:
I have no plans to return.
John:
I don't have a one-way ticket.
John:
I'm not going to college or anything.
John:
I'm just going.
John:
I'm going into the universe.
John:
And his lack of response doesn't make it any less of a big deal.
John:
Well, it's the 80s.
John:
It's the Gen X. That was a lot of response compared to, you know, my friend Kel, whose dad was like, where, you know.
John:
change the toilet paper roll on your way out he was like hey good luck and i was like this is the last you know this may be the last time i ever see him like really feeling the significance and he was 65 yeah yeah like it wasn't the last time i ever saw him but to me at that moment i was like you know he's just he's 65 he might not
Merlin:
Well, it's the beginning of the time when you start thinking things like that for sure.
Merlin:
I mean, I don't think that's, you couldn't have known that he would have more years, but like that 65 when I was a kid was old.
John:
65 was old.
John:
But that thing that you're saying about like every time you see somebody, shit, it could be the last time you see them.
John:
Every time you say, hey, you know what?
John:
Why don't you go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut?
John:
And they're like, fine, I will.
John:
And you're like, oh, no.
John:
That's the last thing I ever said.
John:
I've never loved you.
John:
Okay, have a good day.
John:
They tried to take a flying fuck and a rolling donut and they died.
Merlin:
And they died.
Merlin:
You gave them the idea and then they failed.
John:
Yeah, then they failed.
Merlin:
I hope you're happy.
John:
It's on me.
Merlin:
Did you say hooker happy?
Merlin:
Yeah, she was hooker happy.
Merlin:
I barely knew her.
Merlin:
You're in a weird mood today.
Merlin:
I like it.
Merlin:
Yeah, yeah.
Merlin:
Let's see here.
Merlin:
What did I write down?
Merlin:
Oh, oh, you know what I realized?
Merlin:
I wrote something down.
Merlin:
Can I say something?
Merlin:
Well, yeah.
Merlin:
Okay.
Merlin:
When I was a kid, I think one of the sort of temple things that I've realized as I get older is the role of trauma that I've had in my life from trauma and how my issues with authority come from certain kinds of places.
Merlin:
But those are all kind of central important things.
Merlin:
There's all these kind of residual side things that are related to that.
Merlin:
Including this generalized thing of like, well, when I was a little kid, you just did what adults told you to do.
Merlin:
And I think that it's important for me to remember that.
Merlin:
And I believe it's important for others to remember that.
Merlin:
Is that...
Merlin:
Me and you being how we are and saying the things we used to say and doing how we used to do, this is not an excuse, but it's a very important fact, which is that there was less and fewer of everything in America when we were younger.
Merlin:
And what we did have was a clear sense of what we should be doing and what we should be doing, according to other people, instead of what we're doing right now at any given time.
Merlin:
I had a constant sense of a handful of people I was disappointing no matter what I was doing.
Merlin:
And I could only speculate on the number of people I was disappointing that I didn't even know I was disappointing.
Merlin:
It's when you're a kid, you're just fucking always doing it.
Merlin:
And anyway, I just think that's important for people to know.
Merlin:
You know, we talked about the thing where like, hey, get in the car.
Merlin:
We're going to run errands.
Merlin:
You're like, I don't feel like it.
Merlin:
Did you ever do that?
Merlin:
You ever go like, oh, I don't feel like doing whatever it is.
Merlin:
No, you don't say that.
Merlin:
You get in the car and go.
Merlin:
Butcher shop, drugstore, hardware store, Ben Franklin's.
Merlin:
You're going to go get notions.
Merlin:
Nobody wants to get notions at Ben Franklin's.
Merlin:
It's the worst store in the world.
Merlin:
your parents tell you there's things to do and you go and you do them or adults in general, right?
Merlin:
Like you don't get to say like this assignment in class seems like you seem a little bit hungover and like you're not really trying today.
Merlin:
You don't say things like that.
Merlin:
You do whatever they tell you to do.
Merlin:
You know what I didn't really realize until fairly recently?
Merlin:
So first of all, don't you agree that that was kind of a thing?
Merlin:
Like the, no, it was a thing.
Merlin:
At least for me, it was a thing.
Merlin:
Like you just do stuff because you're told to do it and you don't get a vote.
Merlin:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
Merlin:
I never once said, I don't want to.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
And it's not to say whether it's good, bad, or otherwise, but it definitely existed, right?
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Well, and it's not like, I don't even know if I had the concept of
John:
I don't want to go to the drugstore.
John:
Like, there are things I don't want to do.
John:
I don't want to eat uncooked eggs.
John:
That's why you live with mom.
John:
But there are all those other things about, like, we're going to the store.
John:
It's like, I don't want to.
John:
Like, I would never, that wouldn't be a formulation.
John:
Because, like you say, you did what it was told.
Merlin:
Just saying no, as if you had a vote, is kind of considered poor behavior.
Merlin:
But I only realized fairly recently, I think, that not all of the things that I was told or implied were required were required.
Merlin:
Sometimes they were just things that the person felt like doing, but it was presented to me...
Merlin:
Or I won't say present it to me.
Merlin:
I received it with the same authority and clarity as if it were like testifying to Congress.
Merlin:
So I bet that, I bet, the reason I say it here is I bet you got a lot of that with your dad.
Merlin:
It seems like your dad had a lot of adventures that were tacitly compulsory, but were mostly just the thing he wanted to do.
Merlin:
Like my family just liked going to the beach.
Merlin:
I did not like going to the beach.
Merlin:
I did not get to vote.
Merlin:
Oh, you didn't like going to the beach?
Merlin:
Oh, I hated it.
Merlin:
I was always sunburned.
Merlin:
Oh.
Merlin:
I've had so much sun poisoning, and I hate sand, and I hate the salt water and all that stuff.
Merlin:
But you know what I mean.
Merlin:
There must be examples.
Merlin:
Everybody's got them.
Merlin:
Where in retrospect, you go like, oh, no, we didn't have to work in the garden at 6 a.m.
Merlin:
on vacation.
Merlin:
It's just that I can now look back and go, well, here's what this is like real talk.
Merlin:
My mom and my grandmother in both of their later years, their relationship would be easier to manage in some situations than others.
Merlin:
Maybe the two of them like locked in a tiny kitchen together was not a good idea.
Merlin:
Whereas going to the park or the beach or getting a tour of a Christmas tree factory are the kind of things that they could hang with and get along and bring me forward.
Merlin:
Do you follow?
Merlin:
You know what I mean?
John:
Yeah.
John:
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Merlin:
But, like, nobody ever gave me any inside track on which of these things were actually compulsory and which one of these things were just their preferences, and they just got to benefit from the fact that I never got to say no.
John:
Yeah, my dad didn't have any concept that...
John:
He wanted to do was What he wanted to do rather than it being?
John:
The thing we were doing right really so well in the sense that in the sense that Like because he wanted to ski
John:
He, in his mind, positioned that as that we get to ski.
John:
Like Susan and I were presented with skiing as though it were a gift.
John:
And neither of us had any concept of skiing or anything, you know, we weren't asking for it, but it was presented as a gift.
John:
Well, it took me years to realize it was just that that's what he wanted to do.
John:
And our whole lives were like that, where it was like, I want to do this.
John:
So here is my gift to you, this thing that I want to do.
John:
My mom had a completely different mentality.
John:
She said to me at one point, years and years ago,
John:
Because, you know, there's so much energy between parents and kids where I'm talking about in adulthood, where the aging parents feel like their money is something they have to guard against giving their kids.
John:
Like their kids are trying to get their money and their money belongs to them.
John:
And they're going to use it in their retirement.
John:
They're going to vacation with it and their kids aren't going to get it.
John:
Kids aren't going to get the money.
John:
And there's this weird generational dynamic between young people who are like, I don't know how much money my parents have.
John:
I don't know if I'm going to get any of it.
John:
They seem to be spending it as fast as they can.
John:
And at a young age, my mom said, you know, I don't have any money, but what's mine is yours.
John:
Like, we're a family.
John:
My whole point in life, my whole reason to be here is to help you
John:
do the best job you can to help your kids do the best job they can to help their kids like that her idea of of the continuity of time was it extended to the fact that she said nothing i own belongs to me it belongs to us
John:
And that was never a, that wasn't meant to be like, so go do what you want.
John:
You know, that had a ton of expectation of like, that you do things well, you make good choices.
Merlin:
You should probably, I mean, I love the way you're putting that though, of like, cause it's also removing a little bit of that hierarchical thing.
Merlin:
of, you know what I mean, of like, well, I'm the old person who has all the money and all the wisdom, and you're the young person who lacks those things, and you're after my money, and blah.
Merlin:
It takes down a lot of those, and you're just saying, like, it's all been our pot, the same pot from the beginning, kind of, right?
John:
Well, and information, I mean, all of the...
John:
why would I conceal something from my kids, is her mentality.
John:
Because of all the people in the world, who is the least likely to be my enemy?
John:
My own child, right?
John:
And like, why would I ever set myself up in a position where my kids were my adversaries?
John:
And I know there's a lot of other worlds, you know, people whose relationships with their parents are really fractured and there's a million reasons for that.
John:
But my mom's attitude was always, this isn't mine, it's ours.
John:
And there wasn't much when we were kids.
John:
And obviously her attitude now is not like, oh, Susan, you know, take my money and go buy yourself a boat and get a facelift and rabbit ears or whatever.
Yeah.
John:
like it's not like that it's just this set this sense that's very different from what i hear from other people who are like yeah i don't know how much money my folks have and if i ask they get really weird and they change the subject and they act like i'm trying to sneak or something and i'm just like oh that's really strange and you know my dad didn't have my dad wasn't like that because he didn't ever really make money but he definitely was in the world
John:
for himself, not to the exclusion of anybody else.
John:
He wanted us all to join him.
Merlin:
That's subtle, but I think I get it.
John:
But he, he wanted me to be his wingman, but he was pursuing his own interests and he hoped that I would benefit from them.
John:
Whereas my mom was like, and it's not like my mom ever came in and said, what do we want to do?
John:
Right.
John:
She definitely was like, here's what we're doing.
Merlin:
That does not sound like, especially, it doesn't always sound like her.
John:
No.
John:
Sit on the edge of the bed, honey, honey.
John:
But she was trying to advance some principle of life, whereas my dad was much more of a playboy.
John:
And if either one of them had ever had any money, I don't know how life would have been different.
John:
But for sure, my attitude with my own kid comes from my mom, where I'm like, look, all the information I have in the world, everything I know and think I know, belongs to you in whatever measure you want it.
John:
And I'll just shut up and say nothing, or I will tell you exactly my thoughts.
John:
Like, not...
John:
not tempered because you're a child, not like I, you know, I'll flatter you or I won't like you just turn on the, the water, whatever temperature you want it, because it's, it all belongs to you.
John:
And you know, and I just, I just see kids, see so many parents, you know, that kind of like, Oh, my kid's not ready for that or can't handle it.
John:
You know, I think by the time they're 14, it's like, if they can't, if they can watch a movie where somebody's head gets blown off and
John:
they can hear the real truth about grandma.
John:
And maybe they can't, you know, but I think they can, you know?
John:
And so... It's really strange.
Merlin:
All the kids think they want to grow up.
Merlin:
They think they want to grow up.
Merlin:
They think they want to mature.
Merlin:
They think they want to develop more privileges, but they don't realize that they're about two days away from earning the privilege of a beheading movie.
Merlin:
And then...
Merlin:
And then from earning that privilege, also then, they're going to pay that bill by listening to a very long story that's going to reveal the truth about Grandma.
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Do you want to know the real story about Grandma?
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Let me know what your movie's done.
Merlin:
Let me know what your movie's done.
Merlin:
Come here.
John:
At first, they're like, yeah, what's the real story about Grandma?
John:
And then it's like, oh, wait a minute.
John:
I don't know if I do want to know the real story about Grandma.
John:
Well, we brought her in.
Merlin:
She's going to talk to us.
John:
From beyond the grave.
John:
But I feel like my dad and his generation, I mean, I know so many people our age, Merlin, that don't know anything about their parents.
John:
And they don't like them.
John:
And meanwhile, my mom's outside rustling fucking rakes at five o'clock in the morning.
John:
And I'm like, man, God, there's got to be a middle ground.
Merlin:
It's funny, having been a little bit on both sides of, well, you know, as a human being, and especially as an American, I'm the most important thing in the world.
Merlin:
So I spent most of my earlier life thinking about why people, why I, one way to put it would be, I don't really, I don't think I can understand the behavior and thinking of people who are older than I. And then at a certain point, you know, as you get older, well, believe it or not, eventually you start also thinking like, I really also don't really understand the thinking behavior of people who are younger than I.
Merlin:
Right?
Merlin:
Sometimes you feel like either direction, it's very difficult to understand.
Merlin:
And one thing that can make that feeling even stranger is when it feels like other people of your cohort or your generation maybe seem like they do understand it or understand it differently.
Merlin:
That's where I get screwed up, is where I'm like, why does everybody else understand their parents?
Merlin:
Or like, why can't anybody understand their kid?
Merlin:
Here's your kid.
Merlin:
Your kid's not you.
Merlin:
Have you really accepted that?
Merlin:
Yeah, that's the hard one.
Merlin:
Every other piece of advice you receive can be useful, but will only really go so far until you've accepted that your child is not you.
Merlin:
Did that help at all?
Merlin:
You know what I mean?
John:
Well, it's 100%.
Merlin:
And it's not a disloyalty to you when your child becomes things that are different from you.
Merlin:
That's not a disloyalty.
Merlin:
That's your job.
Merlin:
Your job is for your kid to turn into something different and stay out of the way.
John:
Well, Jesus, they're different from the moment they arrive, aren't they?
John:
It's just like, oh, shit, you're not me.
John:
You're saying they're a different person altogether.
John:
You're not me, and not only that, but there's nothing I can do about it.
John:
It keeps changing.
John:
I read a really great, just kind of one-sentence thing that was like, if you could make your kid,
John:
be who you wanted, that would be the worst possible thing for the human race.
John:
We would never have survived.
John:
The human race would never have survived if parents had the ability to make their kids what they wanted.
Merlin:
Even to do the thing that we all claim...
Merlin:
We all claim, like, you know, when you say stuff like, I said this, I imagine you said this, but I said stuff like, I don't want to repeat what I perceive to be, anyway, the mistakes of my parents.
Merlin:
Like, I don't want to give my kid my anxieties.
Merlin:
I want to let my kid have their own anxieties.
Merlin:
That's just one of the saner things that I have said.
Merlin:
I'll bet there's a lot less sane things that a lot more people have said trying to fight the last war.
Merlin:
Like getting over, and you'll notice how often I had that word perceived.
Merlin:
Like changing the, because it's not always something that happened.
Merlin:
A lot of times it's something you perceived happened.
Merlin:
So getting over your perceived weirdness with your family.
Merlin:
John, can you imagine, to answer your own question with your own question, can you imagine if you got to make people the way you wanted?
Merlin:
What a horrible, what a horrible homunculus you'd end up with.
Merlin:
That would be a bad world.
John:
They'd all be insufferable.
Merlin:
They'd all be insufferable.
Merlin:
You know, like if you gave people, if most of us gave a notional person the skills and whatever ammunition that we thought they needed, they would suck.
Merlin:
We would hate them.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Well, I don't know if this is true for you, but like my parents were both interested in psychology and psychiatry in the 40s and 50s and followed it avidly.
John:
My mom was at the Ohio State in the early 50s.
John:
My dad was, you know, they were both like intellectual people and they were really interested in all this new science that we understood about ourselves and sociology and...
John:
It was a post-war world where we weren't going to make the mistakes of the 19th century ever again.
John:
It's an end of fascism.
John:
It's the beginning of a global new world.
John:
And they absolutely tried to correct all the mistakes of their own upbringing and also of the world in the way that they raised me.
John:
And there were a lot of books helping them.
John:
And there was a lot of energy in the 1960s.
John:
to maybe the first time, really, to like, let's get inside these kids' minds from the very beginning.
Merlin:
Right, we've got the tools, we've got, I mean, for, right at that point, anyway, we already fell for six, we being Western culture, had already had 60 or 80 years of feeling like, okay, we've come a long way from the old ideas of the mind and body, you know, in this post-Freudian, post-whatever.
Merlin:
Like, for the last 60 years, we have a science.
Merlin:
of this that we can apply to things.
Merlin:
Now we need to take what we've learned and we need to apply that science in really almost like, this sounds like Skinner, but I don't mean it that way.
Merlin:
But like we need to, you know, because, you know, there's the stories about how the Skinner box, right?
Merlin:
How Skinner, you know about this?
Merlin:
How Skinner already like experimented on his own kid with practicing things with isolation.
Merlin:
I think we might've even had that at show art a long time ago is that
Merlin:
demonstration of what this what this environment would look like for raising a child and it's basically boy in the plastic bubble it's basically like you got a pair of gloves that goes in to say good boy and then i'll see you next year and a pellet falls down right i mean weren't there's these ideas of like trying to take out all of the unintentional cruft of the way like kids were we you hold if you didn't hold your son so much we would have won the war faster that kind of stuff
John:
ariella's dad was a professor of psychology at western and she has two older uh half sisters and they actually grew up with like boxes that lit up depending this is 60 65 but boxes that would light up depending on what they did in the room and like in their home like like if you touched this then this one buzzed and that one shocked you and this one dropped you know i can
Merlin:
It's probably like some rough-hewn, little shitty-looking non-professional.
Merlin:
But that kind of thing we were like, when you do, not biorhythms, but biofeedback or something, and you get these pseudoscientific things.
Merlin:
You got that in your room next to your doll set that has a big camera.
John:
And mom and dad are on the other side of a piece of two-way glass.
John:
Camera sticking out of a doll.
John:
Like, okay, let's see what they do now.
John:
It's such a weird time, but, but I see, I feel like a lot of the things that happened in my childhood were a direct result of them saying, well, the way I was raised was awful.
John:
And it was both my parents, awful childhoods.
John:
And so they weren't going to make those mistakes again.
John:
And of course, you know, and that's what happened with the, with every successive generation.
John:
And I look at my kid and go, what am I doing?
John:
wrong right now to try and correct for the mistakes that were made that you're one day that when you're sitting in your freshman dorm, you're going to go, uh, you know, my dad tried to correct for his, you know, his parents mistakes by doing this.
John:
And now I'm all fucked up from it.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
And so what I, I guess what I do is I say all that out loud and
John:
and she goes, well, you know, the number one thing you could stop doing is being so fucking sad all the time.
John:
And I'm like, what do you mean?
John:
I'm a happy dad.
John:
I'm one of the happiest dads.
John:
And she just rolls her eyes and I'm just like, well, okay, whatever you think.
John:
And I'm like, oh fuck, you know, I just have resting sad face.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
But you know, that's not something that my mom and dad ever showed.
John:
They didn't sit around looking sad.
John:
Um, but yeah,
John:
But, you know, she's capable at 14 of saying, yeah, I'm looking around for all the ways you're fucking up.
John:
Believe you me.
John:
Oh, gosh.
John:
That's a lot of pressure.
John:
Well, but, you know, we're all a continuum.
John:
Yeah, that's true.
John:
It's true.
John:
So, you know, she's about to go to high school.
John:
I mean, this is about when our memories really come online.
John:
You know, when they're nine years old, you look at them and they're like, they look like little humans.
John:
You take them to Disneyland.
John:
You teach them all this stuff.
John:
It's like, hey, this is, you know, look at you.
John:
You're taking it all in.
John:
But when you look back at your own life, do you remember what...
John:
nine years old was like?
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
Not really.
Merlin:
I remember it better than six, but it remains... I would say my memory... I have some flashbulb memories of that time, for sure.
Merlin:
But a lot of times, those memories are... Sometimes the fact that they're so specific...
Merlin:
And the fact that they are so ultimately isolated, that's the flashbulb part in some ways, is like, the fact that they remain so isolated makes me think that, okay, well, it's one reason that these seem so clear to me is that I've re-rehearsed them once a year or so since then.
John:
Yeah, maybe that's right.
John:
I mean, you know how your house was laid out.
John:
Yeah, for sure.
John:
You know who your friends were.
John:
You know kind of the general...
John:
But it's really when you're, you walk into the open, it's not an open world game.
Merlin:
Like, you know, there's like those games where you think about Dragon's Lair.
Merlin:
Do you ever play Dragon's Lair when you're a kid where you're like, but it was a CD-ROM game and you didn't know that when you're playing it.
Merlin:
But CD-ROM, like basically you just had to do things in a certain order in an exact way to get to keep playing the game.
Merlin:
That was the game.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
You couldn't just go tearing ass running around and go wherever you want.
Merlin:
So like when you say, my friends, I think about, I suddenly shoot into this slightly above ground, like map view.
Merlin:
And I think about here's, I suddenly, and then the view goes down.
Merlin:
I'm looking at my house.
Merlin:
I see the Kenkels.
Merlin:
And then I see Dave Molinari's house with the Mustang parked out front.
Merlin:
And that's always the order I think it in.
Merlin:
And then as soon as I think about the kinkles, I think about how she died.
Merlin:
When she died, she was 88 years old, she was nude, and she spilled a bowl of cling peaches on the ground.
Merlin:
Fairly specific thing.
Merlin:
And then Mr. Kinkle died a week later, like old people do.
Merlin:
But you see, I don't know how much in that adventure game I'll get that same level of detail.
Merlin:
For example, hopping a fence and looking around the Kenkel's backyard.
Merlin:
I might find a few more flashbulbs.
Merlin:
I don't know if this is making any fucking sense.
Merlin:
I don't think it's an open world game.
Merlin:
I don't think I can just wander around a month of my ninth year or 10th year, right?
Merlin:
But at the same time, I do think that some of the memories I have are pretty close to what happened, but their isolation makes me think that they're isolated.
John:
yeah and that's what i mean about like you walk in the door of freshman year now you can't really put yourself completely back in an open world game when you're a freshman either but that's the beginning of the world that feels contiguous no no i'm agreeing with you for sure you know the dawn of the first day of freshman year to now you feel like you've been more or less occupying the same robot body and
John:
She's about to walk through those doors, and it's just interesting where she is about to walk through those doors and where I was about to walk through those doors.
John:
Did you and I talk about the idea that, yeah, that first day of freshman year...
John:
People would sidle up to me and say, don't walk on the tiles in the middle of the student center or the seniors are going to give you a swirly and make you clean it with a toothbrush.
John:
And I'd be like, what?
John:
The seniors are going to do what?
John:
And then everywhere you looked, there was a senior.
John:
I figured they'd be dizzier than that.
John:
I know.
John:
That seems very time consuming.
John:
Kick my ass?
John:
There's 2,000 kids in this school.
John:
Like, what the hell?
John:
That doesn't scale up.
John:
You know, and you're looking and you're watching kids walk over the tiles and you're like, so they can walk over them, but I can't?
John:
Like, you know, like that whole idea that the seniors were going to beat your ass just for being a freshman.
John:
that your whole first week of freshman year, at least at my school, it was just like, Jesus, some meathead in a football helmet is gonna throw me through a play class window just for being alive.
John:
That's obviously not gonna happen at her school.
John:
But what I knew about the world, what guidance I had, what questions I would have even thought to ask when I was 13, I don't even know.
John:
It's a very confusing time.
John:
I don't know if I can put myself in those shoes, you know?
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
No, I... And it's for something to be... It's one thing for something in life to be messy, and then it's another thing for it to be, like, truly chaotic, where it's so multivariate and happening at so many... Like, think just... For example, just think about the rates or ways in which we each develop mentally, emotionally, physically...
Merlin:
our coordination, like all of those things.
Merlin:
And it all happens at pretty much at different rates.
Merlin:
It's not like constant, all of those things.
Merlin:
And that's one of the things that makes it truly so chaotic.
Merlin:
I guess it's true for everybody, especially at that age.
Merlin:
It's like so much stuff is changing so many quickly.
Merlin:
So many things are changing so quickly in so many different ways.
Merlin:
And some things are happening that neither of you know about.
Merlin:
And you know what I'm saying?
Merlin:
That's it.
Merlin:
It could be you go away for a week and you come back and your kid just feels like a different person.
Merlin:
And maybe they do or don't, but that whole period can be... I'm not saying anything new or useful here.
Merlin:
I'm just saying that as we try to find our way with these things and wonder what we and everybody else is doing wrong, it is helpful to remember that that is some crazy chaotic shit going on for each one of those little people.
Merlin:
Did you go through puberty early or late?
John:
Late.
John:
Or regular?
John:
Late.
John:
Yeah, I did, too.
John:
I was halfway through high school before I was anything other than a child.
Merlin:
I mean, it was funny.
Merlin:
When you were talking about the first day of school and walking on the tiles, I have so many flashbulb memories of starting eighth grade at this new public school.
Merlin:
The most overriding one was the smell of Vidal Sassoon shampoo.
Merlin:
Oh.
Merlin:
Which is the shampoo I started using around that time.
Merlin:
I had some corduroys.
Merlin:
I thought I looked really cool.
Merlin:
I was such a dork.
Merlin:
I was 13 and such a dork and so little and so under pubertied.
Merlin:
I don't think I really started.
John:
Did you have a dirty comb in your back pocket?
Merlin:
Yeah, the small one.
Merlin:
Not the big one, the small one.
Merlin:
Which you could, by the way, also you could buy an off-brand fake small goody comb at the school store.
Merlin:
The Rampage.
Merlin:
At the school store?
Merlin:
The Rampage was the yearbook.
Merlin:
What are they called?
Merlin:
It might have been called the Ramrod or something.
Merlin:
The Ramrod?
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
All the marketing students worked there.
Merlin:
Yeah, no, but it's all, yeah, late, for sure late.
Merlin:
Yeah, yeah.
Merlin:
I mean, I don't want to be comical about it.
Merlin:
I mean, I was able to produce semen in eighth grade, but I didn't really need to shave much until I was 15, 16.
John:
Yeah, I think I started shaving a long time before I needed to.
John:
I absolutely wanted to shave so much.
John:
I think it wasn't a day before I was 16.
Merlin:
Secondary sex characteristics.
Merlin:
It's a huge deal.
Merlin:
I mean, I'll never be an old man who wants a wig, but if I could have done any treatment to let me have just any armpit hair when I was 13, I would have done anything for it.
John:
I tried so desperately to grow a mustache until I was 30.
John:
Because even in my late 20s, it was pretty peach fuzz.
John:
And I remember I was at a party.
John:
Elon Musk is 60 and he still can't grow facial hair.
John:
Still can't grow facial hair.
John:
It just makes him look more wet.
John:
I was at a party and I had to be 28.
John:
And one of my friends who'd had a kid young...
John:
you know there were some people that were partiers but they had kids when they were 22 and so they kept going to parties and living an alternative lifestyle but they had like a seven-year-old and i was at some party and i was talking to some kid of a friend of mine that i'd known since they were a little kid wow and uh and at this point they were seven or eight
John:
And I said, well, you know, I've got, as somebody with a mustache, let me explain how things are.
John:
And the kid looked at me and said, don't you mean mustaches?
John:
And I said, what do you mean?
John:
And he said, well, it doesn't connect in the middle.
John:
It's like two mustaches.
John:
And I was like, you little son of a bitch.
John:
I need you to shut the hell up and I need you to go to your room.
John:
And it wasn't.
John:
Yeah, I think it was on my walk across Europe.
John:
I think I looked in a mirror in some little pension and I was like, my mustaches have connected.
John:
31 years old.
John:
I never looked back.
John:
Never looked back.
John:
You can't look back after that, John.
John:
You kidding me?
John:
I didn't look back in anger.
John:
I looked back and just said, I'm not looking back.
John:
Yeah.
John:
So if I could have worn a wig, it would have been a mustache wig.
Merlin:
Oh, absolutely.
Merlin:
I even would have gone with some kind of like, I don't know, something you get maybe done at like your mom's beautician parlor, where there's just some kind of combination of irritation and coloration.
Merlin:
Maybe you could just buff it up a little bit with a nail and then color it.
Merlin:
Like little shadows, imply shadows.
Merlin:
You know what?
Merlin:
Now that I'm thinking about it, this is an unexplored area.
Merlin:
I'll bet there's a lot of people that would like to look like they have more facial hair than they do.
Merlin:
This feels like an Instagram account where you're like, hey, anybody want a mustache?
Merlin:
And you show two different sides and you're like, this is what I looked like seven minutes ago.
Merlin:
And now I'm Mr. Mustache.
John:
Well, another crazy thing is in the 2000s,
John:
there was a fashion kind of sensibility, I think it still is true, of a certain kind of beard that feels not patchy, but like there's a certain kind of rugged beard that isn't a full beard.
John:
It's like it grows, it's a mustache, and then it doesn't connect over here, and it's kind of just this, it's a certain kind of...
John:
Scraggly, maybe.
John:
Yeah, like a Vincent Gallo kind of beard.
John:
Oh, I see.
John:
Yeah, right.
John:
It's clearly a beard, but it's not like a beard like my beard.
Merlin:
Well, I always think of somebody, when I say always, I mean, I think of the type like Rob Delaney.
Merlin:
Rob Delaney looks like the second he stops shaving, a Fred Flintstone full muzzle grows in at exactly the same length everywhere.
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
To me, that was what, like, my dad was like that.
Merlin:
My dad used to have to shave at work.
Merlin:
He, like, would have, he had a very, like, heavy, thick beard that would come in fast.
Merlin:
But it was always very uniform.
Merlin:
Never had that Elon Musk patch, patchiness.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
Or, like, you know, like, you're some kind of, like, some kind of, like, an extra on Deadwood kind of look.
Merlin:
But, like, young...
John:
young guys would come up to me 15 years ago and say like, I can't grow a beard.
John:
And I would say, what do you mean?
John:
Your beard looks great.
John:
And they're like, yeah, but it doesn't connect.
John:
Like the mustache doesn't connect.
John:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
John:
And that was when I kind of got the sense of like, oh, there's a beard dysphoria.
John:
where people and they let it grow long they let it keep growing long like that's yeah to try to try and like get the looks a little east asian sometimes it's not flattering and you're like and i would say to them your beard looks amazing your beard looks amazing and they're like here's my advice want other things
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Have you thought about wanting other things?
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Isn't that a wise thing to say?
Merlin:
It does sound so wise.
Merlin:
I don't have a trick for you where hair grows in places that it does not currently grow.
Merlin:
And I'm just given the options for the things, the ways you could spend your time over the next five years.
Merlin:
I would not spend an extraordinary amount of time trying to get hair to grow on your face in places where it doesn't grow now.
Merlin:
If that means a lot, a lot, a lot to you, I can see why you'd pursue that.
Merlin:
But I guess what I would say is want other things.
John:
Want other things.
John:
It sounds like something that Mr. Natural would say.
Merlin:
Hey, man.
Merlin:
Hey, man.
John:
Want other things.
John:
Hey, man.
John:
Want other things.
John:
You're like, fuck yes.
John:
Want other things.
John:
It's up there with make good choices.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Make good choices.
John:
Yeah.
John:
I think if you looked at the sign, if you put it in your kitchen or whatever, you would understand it doesn't mean like all the things that you want, you should just want other things.
John:
No, it's not that.
John:
It can mean a lot of things.
John:
The things that you are currently wanting that are driving you crazy that you just have to go.
John:
Is this not a case where maybe I should just want other things?
Merlin:
Think about this.
Merlin:
And you see this when you're watching television.
Merlin:
If you're the kind of person who watches television, you see these things on TV shows, and you're like, ah, ah, I'm so sad.
Merlin:
I'm married to this wonderful, let's say, oh, let's say, I'm married to this wonderful woman, and we have great kids, and everybody loves me, and I've got a cool house, but I'm in love with this dangerous drug person.
Merlin:
who has weapons and i just and i just i just can't get i just can't get over my love for you know uh for sandy and you're like well sandy seems nice but one other things if you wanted other things you wouldn't you wouldn't have that problem now i understand like if you want to like you know like uh let's say you want to fuck a possum
Merlin:
That's your thing.
Merlin:
Let's say maybe your thing is fuck.
Merlin:
And I am not here to try and talk you out of whatever your pathology slash gift in life is.
Merlin:
But you will have fewer problems if you spend less of your time trying to fuck a possum.
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Have there been times, because you can want, but you can also just want other things.
Merlin:
Like you can want more than just your compulsive sex thing.
Merlin:
So even if you are, if you have a relationship with Sandy the Possum and it's going fine, it's okay for you to still want other things, like a library card.
John:
Oh, I see what you're saying.
John:
Yeah, that's true, too.
John:
But I think it's mostly, eh, I want other things.
John:
You know, I do the thing that I think a lot of people my age that have the history that I have like to do, which is I want one more guitar.
John:
And...
John:
I have a lot.
Merlin:
You're like Netanyahu.
Merlin:
Netanyahu always says, just take one more, one more.
Merlin:
Just one more guitar.
Merlin:
One more guitar, and I will settle this situation in Gaza.
Merlin:
If I just had one more guitar.
John:
So I wrote all of my buddies who are professional guitar players, and I said, hey, professional guitar player persons.
John:
And not all of them are currently, like this weekend, making money playing guitar, but they all were in...
John:
they all were in the life and uh and some of them are name brand guitar players and i said hey everybody it was a group thread how many guitars do you have and there was a kind because we're all professionals and there's nobody watching there's no there's this isn't like a journalism thing there wasn't a there was there was no shyness right everybody recognized that the 15 people in the thread all had the same problem
John:
And so the first problem being the I always want one more guitar.
John:
I want one more guitar.
John:
Yeah.
John:
And and and so but the marvelous thing about this group is like everybody can justify having more than four guitars.
John:
Right.
John:
There's no, nobody could complain to you because these are the tools of your trade.
John:
But the first guy said 27 guitars.
John:
He set the bar.
John:
And then the next guy said, yeah, that's about it.
John:
27 guitars.
Merlin:
That's crazy.
John:
And then the third person was like, I have, you know, 24 to 27, depending on if you count banjos and mandolins.
John:
And it went around, and all 15 of these guys, except for Kurt Block, who has 85 guitars, everybody had more than 23, but nobody quite admitted to 30 guitars.
Yeah.
John:
And when you put 25 guitars, let's say average 25 guitars, when you put 25 guitars in a room, I know you can picture this scene, that's a shitload of guitars.
Merlin:
I don't want to interrupt you, but here's the thing.
Merlin:
Y'all hear a number like 27, and I get it.
Merlin:
You hear 27, you see the numeral 27.
Merlin:
What I want you to do, though, is instead put that into three dimensions.
Merlin:
Don't just put it on a wall.
Merlin:
I want you to see 27 guitars on stands.
Merlin:
In a room.
Merlin:
Not just on a wall.
Merlin:
Again, not on a wall.
Merlin:
I want you to see them as the 3D space taken up by a guitar.
Merlin:
27 is so many more guitars than you think.
Merlin:
And then... You're thinking, like, in your mind, you're thinking 8 to 11 is what that looks like in your head.
John:
27 is so many more than that.
John:
Now imagine that every one of those guitars has a case that is twice as big as the guitar.
John:
Now you have 27 guitar cases...
John:
somewhere in your abode yeah yeah and and so and going through this group and then of course everybody's because this is the thing about these guys they're all like look at my guitars and then there's all these pictures look at my guitars look at them i want you all to look at them and some of them were beautiful guitars beautiful beyond all imagining and guitars that had history you know kurt block
John:
I don't know if I've ever told you the story, but the fastbacks loaned their practice space to Nirvana.
John:
And when they came back in, there was a, uh, there was one of those Univox Mosrite copy guitars that had been smashed into a million pieces in the practice space.
John:
Like Kurt had obviously lost his, lost the plot and done a total guitar smash, uh,
John:
just in the practice space and then because they're big rock stars they just left it you know and so the fastbacks come in and there's this guitar just everywhere and it's a and it's a known cobain guitar like you know it's in photos so kurt then this is not because kurt's interested in the fame of it or because kurt's interested in the value of it or anything this is in 1990 1990.
John:
Kurt meticulously picks up every shard.
Merlin:
Oh, wait.
Merlin:
I'm sorry.
Merlin:
This is huge.
Merlin:
This is very important.
Merlin:
This is before everybody knew who Nirvana was.
Merlin:
Yeah, but locally people did.
Merlin:
No, no, no.
Merlin:
But that's a big difference.
Merlin:
I just thought it was more like, okay, I wouldn't understand the chronology.
Merlin:
Okay, well, that says so much interesting good stuff about Kurt Block.
John:
Yeah, this is after Bleach, but before... Got it.
John:
Never mind.
John:
So they're not huge.
John:
And Kurt is like...
John:
oh this is a perfectly good guitar he picks up every shard of it exactly what he sounds like but it's sexy puts it on his little workbench or whatever and wood glues the entire thing back together
John:
Until it's never going to be the same, though.
John:
Until it's, like, probably better than it was, you know?
John:
Yeah, yeah.
John:
Puts it all back together and makes it playable again.
John:
He probably spent more on parts than the Costa Rica.
John:
What's most right, Costa Rica?
John:
But at that time, you know, at that time... I know, I know, I know.
John:
It's like a Hagstrom.
John:
I know, I get it.
John:
And so he puts it back together.
John:
Well, so now all of his buddies... Now, here we are 50 years later, whatever...
John:
all of his buddies are like hey you know even a nothing guitar even some cheapo strat that he played for four minutes like those guitars now are being auctioned for bonkers money you know they're going to they're going to japan or they're going to these investment bankers
John:
And Kurt's like, what do you mean?
John:
You know, he's got 40 of them.
John:
I've been to Japan.
John:
But he's never.
John:
What are we eating for lunch today?
John:
He's not interested in the fact that this is like a thing.
John:
You know, this is like of all of us, of every one of us, this piece of shit is probably worth more than everybody else's guitars combined.
John:
Yeah.
John:
And it's probably lying in a stack of other guitars that don't even have cases that are just stacked on one another.
John:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John:
But then I'm looking at my guitars.
Merlin:
You're thinking to yourself, you just need one more guitar is what you're thinking.
John:
Well, and I'm like, well, if we're not counting banjos and mandolins and also guitars made out of cigar boxes and guitars that fans gave you at cons, what I need is just one more.
John:
I just need one more guitar.
John:
And the thing is, I don't.
John:
I need to want something else.
John:
Want something else.
John:
I need to want something else, Merlin.
Merlin:
Also, at a very high level of practicing this idea, it's okay to want things, but it's also important to want other things.
Merlin:
Yes.
Merlin:
Do you know what I mean?
Merlin:
I think one problem with wanting one thing is it's the only thing you want.
Merlin:
Okay.
Merlin:
That excludes a lot of, I think that a priori, that then excludes the possibility of you primarily wanting literally anything else.
Merlin:
I see.
Merlin:
So, like, let me check.
Merlin:
What I've written down here is want other things.
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Okay, it could be want more things, but I like want other things.
Merlin:
I think other things.
Merlin:
Yeah, because, I think, I mean, without being cute about it, we're on the same page about the original meaning.
Merlin:
The dictionary definition number one of this is like, hey, I could tell you in a really contorted way that you don't really emotionally understand.
Merlin:
Like, you need...
Merlin:
You need to stop craving a thing that's immoral and illegal and will make your life fall down.
Merlin:
Can I just, like, can we summarize it as that?
Merlin:
That could be a Lolita thing.
Merlin:
That could be a drugs thing, right?
John:
You don't need to break up your marriage and your life for this.
Merlin:
Right.
Merlin:
And so I'm really saying it like somebody on a CW show, like where I'm looking at somebody and just going, hey, you know what, Giseline?
Merlin:
Giseline want other things.
Merlin:
Want other things.
Merlin:
Yes.
Merlin:
But then you can also say, like, want other things.
Merlin:
Because part of it is, like, if you're, like, boy, it's not like I'm beating up on sex addicts, and I don't mean to.
Merlin:
But, like, if all you want is you want to jack your mean bone in a hotel window while a secretary unintentionally watches, well, that's going to get costly over time.
Merlin:
It's going to take a lot of planning ahead.
Merlin:
But it's not great that you want that one thing, but it also becomes a problem that you don't want other things.
Merlin:
Right?
Merlin:
If you can only achieve...
Merlin:
through the one thing maybe it's useful to look at other things so like that but doesn't this also go for college like you say oh like if I don't get into Carnegie Mellon I'm gonna walk into the sea and you're like oh one other things can you want more than I don't know this is a very new thought technology it already feels like a shirt but one other things I think is something that we could find ourselves thinking about from time to time that might be wholesome one other should I be wanting other things
John:
Yeah, and I guess it's always long term.
John:
I think for me, if I think want other things, what that says to me is like, okay, zoom back out.
John:
You're zoomed in too far.
John:
Now we're going to zoom out.
Merlin:
Perfect way to put it, yes.
John:
Yeah, and we're going to look around because we're not looking around right now.
John:
And in general, yeah, if I were asked to give a college commencement, I would just say, look, there are some of you here that already know what you want to do with the rest of your life.
John:
And I can tell you, some of you will succeed at that.
John:
You will do exactly as you imagine you're going to do the rest of your life.
John:
There are a lot of you that don't have that absolute certainty.
John:
And let me tell you, you're going to be fine.
John:
Things are going to happen that you can't predict and life will transpire and you'll be fine if you just say yes as things happen.
John:
And honestly, there are some of you who think you know exactly what's going to happen the rest of your life.
John:
And that's not going to happen because things are going to go sideways.
John:
And I'm here to tell you, I'm here to tell you that is going to be fine.
John:
Want other things.
John:
You'll be fine.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Get in the habit.
John:
Yeah.
John:
Yeah.
John:
It's a really good habit.
Merlin:
I feel like it applies to a lot of things, but does it apply to you?
Merlin:
Ought you want something other than one more guitar?
Merlin:
Is it a specific guitar?
Merlin:
Or is it the idea of a last guitar, the last guitar?
John:
Oh, every one of them is just like, why have I never had one of those?
John:
You sound like somebody talking about models now.
John:
Well, it's just like, the thing is, none of them are going to make me what I want.
John:
Which is a guarantee.
John:
Content.
John:
What I want is a guarantee.
John:
Yeah, none of them are going to give me a guarantee.
John:
How's the Italian food at this place?
John:
What I'm looking for is a reason to continue to live for 35 more years.
John:
Oh, gosh.
John:
If you were going to say minutes, I was going to agree with you.
John:
I need a reason to live for the next 35 minutes before I transition to the next apartment or the next appointment I have.
John:
Transition time is the hardest time.
John:
But yeah, in some ways, I wonder, this is another way I can't put myself back in time to get inside my own head, but I wonder if I'm closer to being what?
Yeah.
John:
Not happy, but closer to being content with what I have than I've ever been in my whole life.
John:
And partly it's because I'm right up against, probably pretty close up against what I'm going to get.
John:
You might have hit the ceiling.
John:
When you're 25, you don't know what you're going to get.
John:
No.
John:
And when you're 35, if you're me, you don't know what you're going to get.
John:
Some people are peaking at 35.
John:
Yeah.
John:
But, you know, as I near to like, well, this is pretty much where I'm at.
John:
You know, like I'm not going to be a U.S.
John:
senator.
John:
I'm not going to be president of the United States.
John:
And I'm not going to be a multimillionaire.
John:
I'm not even going to be a millionaire.
John:
Yeah.
John:
and so what am i what am i looking for i'm not looking for another guitar um i'm not really looking for anything here i am and the question now is do i keep grinding after something to get
John:
four percent more or do i start looking for other things which is in my case that path to feeling contented isn't the right word either but like um what just like
Merlin:
Chill, chill, bro.
Merlin:
Maybe the feeling chill the right word.
Merlin:
I don't know.
Merlin:
Thank you, Merlin.
John:
That's exactly the right word.
Merlin:
Feeling, feeling, having integrity and feeling contiguous as a person.
Merlin:
Yeah.
Merlin:
Unlike a young person's mustache.
Merlin:
You're like a mustache that filled in.
John:
Yeah, I'm going to war with the mustache I have, not the mustache I want.
Merlin:
Yeah.
John:
And I always did.
John:
I went to war with that mustache.
John:
I went to war with the mustaches.
John:
You're the veteran of a lot of psychic wars.
John:
I am.
John:
I am.
John:
I survived the irony wars of the 1990s.
John:
I fought with your father in the Clone Wars.
John:
I know.
John:
I know you did.
John:
He shot a TIE fighter out of the sky with his .45.
John:
Look, I've got his lightsaber right here inside of a box that looks like a book.
John:
I don't seem to remember owning a box.
Merlin:
All right.
John:
Hmm.